Re: - E04 - Leadership! Google, Guido van Rossum, PSF

2006-01-13 Thread Aahz
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And, FWIW, I don't think I could convince my wife (or myself) to move to CullyFORNya for any amount of money, whether there was a massage therapist on duty or not... Google also has technical offices in the New York area. --

Re: Weak references (- E04 - Leadership! Google, Guido van Rossum, PSF)

2006-01-13 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
Duncan Booth wrote: Alex Martelli wrote: It IS true that in Python you cannot set arbitrary attributes on arbitrary objects. The workaround is to use a dict, indexed by the id of the object you want to set arbitrary attributes on; this has the helpful consequence that separate namespaces

Re: - E04 - Leadership! Google, Guido van Rossum, PSF

2006-01-12 Thread Dave Hansen
On 11 Jan 2006 21:30:11 -0800 in comp.lang.python, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Aahz) wrote: [..] Side note: I don't have a degree, and I interviewed at Google several years ago. I'm about 97% certain that my lack of degree played little role (if any) in my failure to get a job offer. Side note: I have

Re: - E04 - Leadership! Google, Guido van Rossum, PSF

2006-01-12 Thread Fredrik Lundh
Dave Hansen wrote: Not that I expected to. I just did it for fun. I'm not sure what Google would do with someone whose entire work experience has been developing C code for small embedded controllers anyway. http://www.ftrain.com/robot_exclusion_protocol.html /F --

Re: - E04 - Leadership! Google, Guido van Rossum, PSF

2006-01-12 Thread Dave Hansen
On 12 Jan 2006 16:16:58 -0800 in comp.lang.python, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Aahz) wrote: In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And, FWIW, I don't think I could convince my wife (or myself) to move to CullyFORNya for any amount of money, whether there was a massage

Re: - E04 - Leadership! Google, Guido van Rossum, PSF

2006-01-12 Thread Alex Martelli
Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... Google also has technical offices in the New York area. City? shudder. I moved out of the 'burbs of Minneapolis about 6 years ago, not because of the weather, but because it was getting too crowded for me. Yep, city -- specifically on Broadway,

Re: OT: Degrees as barriers to entry [was Re: - E04 - Leadership! Google, Guido van Rossum, PSF]

2006-01-11 Thread Steve Holden
Steven D'Aprano wrote: On Tue, 03 Jan 2006 08:27:39 -0800, Alex Martelli wrote: Or some even more stringent qualification, such as the state's Bar exam for lawyers -- you may not be able to sit for that exam w/o the appropriate degree, but the degree by itself is not enough, you still have to

Re: OT: Degrees as barriers to entry [was Re: - E04 - Leadership!Google, Guido van Rossum, PSF]

2006-01-11 Thread Richard Brodie
Steve Holden [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Wrong [see above]. I don't remember many mediaeval cathedrals falling down. Your memory of medieval times has gone a bit hazy I expect; in truth, some would fall down from time to time, particularly if the builders tried

Re: - E04 - Leadership! Google, Guido van Rossum, PSF

2006-01-11 Thread Anton Vredegoor
Alex Martelli wrote: Anton Vredegoor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... You are not my superior (or even considered to be more succesfull) as you seem to imply. Depends on who does the considering, I'm sure. If the considerer loves the English language, for example, a horrible mis-spelling

Re: OT: Degrees as barriers to entry [was Re: - E04 - Leadership! Google, Guido van Rossum, PSF]

2006-01-11 Thread A.M. Kuchling
On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 23:13:01 +, Steve Holden [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: attempt to draw direct comparisons. Maybe having an uncle helped you in to the trade, but it didn't cut you much slack in terms of required standards, hence the absence of cathedral-shaped heaps of rubble. York

Re: OT: Degrees as barriers to entry [was Re: - E04 - Leadership! Google, Guido van Rossum, PSF]

2006-01-11 Thread Anton Vredegoor
Steve Holden wrote: Consider yourself excused. Thanks. Anton -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: - E04 - Leadership! Google, Guido van Rossum, PSF

2006-01-11 Thread Christopher Subich
Fredrik Lundh wrote: TAG.did.you.just.call.me.a.kook.questionmark TAG.no.dash.but.if.you.keep.replying.to.them.all.the.time.i.may.have.to.plonk.you.too.smiley TAG.you're.it.exclamation.point. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: OT: Degrees as barriers to entry [was Re: - E04 -Leadership!Google, Guido van Rossum, PSF]

2006-01-11 Thread Fredrik Lundh
Richard Brodie wrote: Wrong [see above]. I don't remember many mediaeval cathedrals falling down. Your memory of medieval times has gone a bit hazy I expect probably because he was hit in the head by a falling stone during a trip to southern france, many years ago. /F --

Re: - E04 - Leadership! Google, Guido van Rossum, PSF

2006-01-11 Thread Aahz
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], Alex Martelli [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Giving outstanding contributions to open-source projects or others made feasible by the internet is, of course, another hard to fake signal in terms of asymmetric-information markets. And of course, Google will happily accept

Re: OT: Degrees as barriers to entry [was Re: - E04 - Leadership! Google, Guido van Rossum, PSF]

2006-01-11 Thread Aahz
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], Steve Holden [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The major problem with professional bodies is precisely their lack of insistence on a practical demonstration of capability. Paper MCSEs, for example, frequently make bad Windows system administrators because their education has

Re: - E04 - Leadership! Google, Guido van Rossum, PSF

2006-01-10 Thread Armin Rigo
Hi Alex, On Mon, 9 Jan 2006, Alex Martelli wrote: 50%, yes (the other 50% must come from private contributions, that's a EU rule for research projects). It used to be thought that some of the EU money could be used to help pay for sprint participants' travel expenses, but apparently

Re: - E04 - Leadership! Google, Guido van Rossum, PSF

2006-01-10 Thread Armin Rigo
Hi Alex, On Mon, 9 Jan 2006, Alex Martelli wrote: 50%, yes (the other 50% must come from private contributions, that's a EU rule for research projects). It used to be thought that some of the EU money could be used to help pay for sprint participants' travel expenses, but apparently

Re: - E04 - Leadership! Google, Guido van Rossum, PSF

2006-01-10 Thread Anton Vredegoor
Armin Rigo wrote: We have some procedure now for funding travel costs, although it's admittedly very bureaucratic :-( Since next sprint is in Palma de Mallorca I trust I can count on PyPy to refund me the money? Anyway, independently of this, there are some people we are happy to see come

Re: - E04 - Leadership! Google, Guido van Rossum, PSF

2006-01-10 Thread Anton Vredegoor
Alex Martelli wrote: situations, and in a few cases been able to help them back up. People who attempt to *guilt-trip* me into helping have never been and will never been in that lot: in this way, I'm definitely not a typical, guilt driven bleeding heart. I try to help people who are trying

Re: OT: Degrees as barriers to entry [was Re: - E04 - Leadership! Google, Guido van Rossum, PSF]

2006-01-10 Thread Steve Holden
Anton Vredegoor wrote: [stuuf] 'excuse me if I sound a bit bitter and as if suffering from a sense of untitlement' Consider yourself excused. Now stop whining and go do the things you *can*. regards Steve -- Steve Holden +44 150 684 7255 +1 800 494 3119 Holden Web LLC

Re: - E04 - Leadership! Google, Guido van Rossum, PSF

2006-01-10 Thread Steve Holden
Ilias Lazaridis wrote: [...] [...] - TAG.google.evolution.talent.detection TAG.who.gives.a.rats.ass -- Steve Holden +44 150 684 7255 +1 800 494 3119 Holden Web LLC www.holdenweb.com PyCon TX 2006 www.python.org/pycon/ --

Re: - E04 - Leadership! Google, Guido van Rossum, PSF

2006-01-10 Thread Carl Friedrich Bolz
Hi! Anton Vredegoor wrote: Armin Rigo wrote: We have some procedure now for funding travel costs, although it's admittedly very bureaucratic :-( Since next sprint is in Palma de Mallorca I trust I can count on PyPy to refund me the money? If you want to attend the sprint you should

Re: - E04 - Leadership! Google, Guido van Rossum, PSF

2006-01-10 Thread Fredrik Lundh
TAG.how.come.this.thread.generates.kooks.faster.than.I.can.plonk.them.questionmark -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: - E04 - Leadership! Google, Guido van Rossum, PSF

2006-01-10 Thread Steve Holden
Fredrik Lundh wrote: TAG.how.come.this.thread.generates.kooks.faster.than.I.can.plonk.them.questionmark TAG.did.you.just.call.me.a.kook.questionmark TAG.above.tag.not.actually.valid -- Steve Holden +44 150 684 7255 +1 800 494 3119 Holden Web LLC www.holdenweb.com

Re: - E04 - Leadership! Google, Guido van Rossum, PSF

2006-01-10 Thread Fredrik Lundh
TAG.did.you.just.call.me.a.kook.questionmark TAG.no.dash.but.if.you.keep.replying.to.them.all.the.time.i.may.have.to.plonk.you.too.smiley -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: - E04 - Leadership! Google, Guido van Rossum, PSF

2006-01-10 Thread Alex Martelli
Anton Vredegoor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... On the bureaucratic side: Alex, we *have* a procedure at this point, and we have been trying to contact you several time in the past months -- with no success as far as I know, so I'll try via comp.lang.python this time :-) If you still feel

Re: - E04 - Leadership! Google, Guido van Rossum, PSF

2006-01-10 Thread Alex Martelli
Anton Vredegoor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... You are not my superior (or even considered to be more succesfull) as you seem to imply. Depends on who does the considering, I'm sure. If the considerer loves the English language, for example, a horrible mis-spelling such as successfull with

Re: - E04 - Leadership! Google, Guido van Rossum, PSF

2006-01-09 Thread rurpy
Anton Vredegoor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... I already sent some reply via google, got a server error, resent, got a confirmation that my message was posted, but it doesn't show up and also there's no way to retrieve my message except fishing in the cache? Yesterday I had a post not showing

Re: - E04 - Leadership! Google, Guido van Rossum, PSF

2006-01-09 Thread Anton Vredegoor
Alex Martelli wrote: Anton Vredegoor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: However I still maintain that I was never able to meet these fine people you speak about and which you seem to know because the cost involved (a few hundred euro to visit pycon for example) was too high compared to my food

Re: - E04 - Leadership! Google, Guido van Rossum, PSF

2006-01-09 Thread Anton Vredegoor
Alex Martelli wrote: Anton Vredegoor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: However I still maintain that I was never able to meet these fine people you speak about and which you seem to know because the cost involved (a few hundred euro to visit pycon for example) was too high compared to my food

Re: - E04 - Leadership! Google, Guido van Rossum, PSF

2006-01-09 Thread Anton Vredegoor
Alex Martelli wrote: I just don't understand, always assuming you're in the Netherlands, how attending Europython in Belgium (as opposed to Pycon in the US) could have cost hundreds of euros. Conference registration is free to speakers, bicycling NL-BE not costly (many were driving from NL,

Re: - E04 - Leadership! Google, Guido van Rossum, PSF

2006-01-09 Thread Alex Martelli
Anton Vredegoor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... I looked it up: 160 euro (early registration). My food budget is about _Free for conference staff_: i.e., you could choose to contribute either by volunteering your work to help organize and run the conference, or by paying. This is a reasonably

Re: - E04 - Leadership! Google, Guido van Rossum, PSF

2006-01-09 Thread Alex Martelli
Anton Vredegoor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... Ah, I see. You're approaching this from a 'speaker' scenario. You already have a lot of contacts, know where you can sleep, where to eat I am active in the community, and have long been, trying to help out to the best of my abilities. Should I

Re: - E04 - Leadership! Google, Guido van Rossum, PSF

2006-01-09 Thread Hans Nowak
Anton Vredegoor wrote: Now going back to my claim that elitism is bad, I think you are the perfect proof of my point. You live in luxurious (with respect to community, education and financial aspects of being a computer scientist or programmer) conditions and can just not understand why some

Re: - E04 - Leadership! Google, Guido van Rossum, PSF

2006-01-09 Thread Steve Holden
Anton Vredegoor wrote: Alex Martelli wrote: I just don't understand, always assuming you're in the Netherlands, how attending Europython in Belgium (as opposed to Pycon in the US) could have cost hundreds of euros. Conference registration is free to speakers, bicycling NL-BE not costly (many

Re: - E04 - Leadership! Google, Guido van Rossum, PSF

2006-01-09 Thread Steve Holden
Anton Vredegoor wrote: [...] But frankly indeed, I just don't even like to participate to events that claim to be open for all but don't even acknowledge that the barriers are extremely high compared to some participants budgets. Your hype about it being cheap has a very chilling effect on my

Re: - E04 - Leadership! Google, Guido van Rossum, PSF

2006-01-09 Thread Alex Martelli
Steve Holden [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... On the available evidence that seems completely untrue. Alex, as I know from personal experience, has no problems accepting the material rewards of a lifetime spent developing expertise, but that doesn't make him elitist. I guess what DOES make me

Re: - E04 - Leadership! Google, Guido van Rossum, PSF

2006-01-08 Thread Anton Vredegoor
Alex Martelli wrote: Anton Vredegoor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: However I still maintain that I was never able to meet these fine people you speak about and which you seem to know because the cost involved (a few hundred euro to visit pycon for example) was too high compared to my food

Re: - E04 - Leadership! Google, Guido van Rossum, PSF

2006-01-08 Thread Alex Martelli
Anton Vredegoor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... Europython is cheap to attend, and has been held twice in Charleroi, Belgium, for example -- if you're in the Netherlands, you could have ... The gist of it is that for me a few hundred euros is and was a *lot* of money, and that this talk

Re: - E04 - Leadership! Google, Guido van Rossum, PSF

2006-01-07 Thread Ilias Lazaridis
Ilias Lazaridis wrote: [...] For Software Engineer: Requirements: * BS or MS in Computer Science or equivalent (PhD a plus). Right here. This requirement is really funny. I thought google is somehow different. [...] from within this thread:

Re: - E04 - Leadership! Google, Guido van Rossum, PSF

2006-01-07 Thread Alex Martelli
Anton Vredegoor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: However I still maintain that I was never able to meet these fine people you speak about and which you seem to know because the cost involved (a few hundred euro to visit pycon for example) was too high compared to my food budget. Europython is cheap

Re: OT: Degrees as barriers to entry [was Re: - E04 - Leadership! Google, Guido van Rossum, PSF]

2006-01-06 Thread David T
On Jan 3, 2006, at 9:54 PM, Brian van den Broek wrote: Steven D'Aprano said unto the world upon 03/01/06 07:33 PM: On Tue, 03 Jan 2006 08:27:39 -0800, Alex Martelli wrote: Or some even more stringent qualification, such as the state's Bar exam for lawyers -- you may not be able to sit

Re: - E04 - Leadership! Google, Guido van Rossum, PSF

2006-01-06 Thread Xavier Morel
Ilias Lazaridis wrote: I estimate that there is a unfreeze operation, too - which would lead to flexibity. There is none, you have to make a copy of the object via the dup (duplicate) method to get an unfrozen copy (note: clone yields an exact copy, which means that it's still frozen).

Re: - E04 - Leadership! Google, Guido van Rossum, PSF

2006-01-06 Thread Mike Meyer
Xavier Morel [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Ilias Lazaridis wrote: thus if I make a typo, I create a new attribute? Why yes of course, what were you expecting? Actually, it's not quite that way. If you make a typo reading an attribute, you'll create an exception. There are languages where making

Re: OT: Degrees as barriers to entry [was Re: - E04 - Leadership! Google, Guido van Rossum, PSF]

2006-01-05 Thread Anton Vredegoor
DaveM wrote: On 3 Jan 2006 20:09:34 -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Aahz) wrote: Unfortunately, this isn't quite true. Medicine and law both require the passing of an apprenticeship, so there's still some room for favoritism and blackballing. In the UK, in Medicine, House Officer jobs pretty

Re: - E04 - Leadership! Google, Guido van Rossum, PSF

2006-01-04 Thread Michael Sparks
On Wednesday 28 Dec 2005 17:58:33, Robert Kern wrote: ... Sorry to reply to the thread so late in the day, but I noticed (via QOTW :-( ) that Anton got worked up at me suggesting that congratulating someone with a new job was a nice idea (surprised me too - all the Google employees I've met have

Re: - E04 - Leadership! Google, Guido van Rossum, PSF

2006-01-04 Thread Ilias Lazaridis
Alex Martelli wrote: Ilias Lazaridis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [...] possibly one can provide the code for something similar to the ruby attr_accessor: class Talker def sayHello puts Hello world end attr_accessor :name, :age end thus they can later be accessed this way

Re: - E04 - Leadership! Google, Guido van Rossum, PSF

2006-01-04 Thread Anton Vredegoor
Michael Sparks wrote: Sorry to reply to the thread so late in the day, but I noticed (via QOTW :-( ) that Anton got worked up at me suggesting that congratulating someone with a new job was a nice idea (surprised me too - all the Google employees I've met have been very nice people), read the

Re: - E04 - Leadership! Google, Guido van Rossum, PSF

2006-01-04 Thread Alex Martelli
Ilias Lazaridis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... attr_accessor :name, :age ... I would need this python attr_accessor, to showcase that python is capable to do it (even if the usage seems irrational/redundant). The code for it was in one of my previous posts, in more than one form, but

Re: OT: Degrees as barriers to entry [was Re: - E04 - Leadership! Google, Guido van Rossum, PSF]

2006-01-04 Thread Alex Martelli
Brian van den Broek [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (I do realize that US data isn't most pertinent to Steven, Alex or myself -- au, it, ca -- but it is ready to hand. Shamefully, my Actually, I've been living in the US for over 9 months now, and like all immigrants I have more dealings with

Re: - E04 - Leadership! Google, Guido van Rossum, PSF

2006-01-04 Thread Ilias Lazaridis
Alex Martelli wrote: Ilias Lazaridis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: attr_accessor :name, :age I would need this python attr_accessor, to showcase that python is capable to do it (even if the usage seems irrational/redundant). [...] - (comments, code outside the body) def

Re: OT: Degrees as barriers to entry [was Re: - E04 - Leadership! Google, Guido van Rossum, PSF]

2006-01-04 Thread DaveM
On 3 Jan 2006 20:09:34 -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Aahz) wrote: Unfortunately, this isn't quite true. Medicine and law both require the passing of an apprenticeship, so there's still some room for favoritism and blackballing. In the UK, in Medicine, House Officer jobs pretty much match the

Re: - E04 - Leadership! Google, Guido van Rossum, PSF

2006-01-03 Thread Ilias Lazaridis
Alex Martelli wrote: Ilias Lazaridis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... ... or equivalent (I do believe all I named have at least a Bachelor degree, but with the undisputable results they've shown afterwards, I think they'd all meet the or equivalent clause anyway). * BS or MS in Computer

Re: - E04 - Leadership! Google, Guido van Rossum, PSF

2006-01-03 Thread Duncan Booth
Alex Martelli wrote: It IS true that in Python you cannot set arbitrary attributes on arbitrary objects. The workaround is to use a dict, indexed by the id of the object you want to set arbitrary attributes on; this has the helpful consequence that separate namespaces are used, so your

Re: - E04 - Leadership! Google, Guido van Rossum, PSF

2006-01-03 Thread Ilias Lazaridis
Alex Martelli wrote: Anton Vredegoor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [...] No insider information is necessary, the job requirements make it absolutely clear (at least to me) that Google is a company with an elitist culture, Absolutely yes, in terms of who we want to work at Google: we DO want

Re: - E04 - Leadership! Google, Guido van Rossum, PSF

2006-01-03 Thread Alex Martelli
Ilias Lazaridis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... Ok, thus Google is flexible in this. [sidenote: some jobs _require_ a degree by law] Or some even more stringent qualification, such as the state's Bar exam for lawyers -- you may not be able to sit for that exam w/o the appropriate degree, but

Re: - E04 - Leadership! Google, Guido van Rossum, PSF

2006-01-03 Thread Alex Martelli
Duncan Booth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Alex Martelli wrote: It IS true that in Python you cannot set arbitrary attributes on arbitrary objects. The workaround is to use a dict, indexed by the id of the object you want to set arbitrary attributes on; this has the helpful consequence

Re: - E04 - Leadership! Google, Guido van Rossum, PSF

2006-01-03 Thread Hans Nowak
Duncan Booth wrote: BTW, I don't know Ruby enough to understand the example at http://lazaridis.com/case/lang/ruby/base.html: class Object def meta # adds variable meta to all objects in the system end I don't think this is valid Ruby code, by the way... It should probably be

Re: - E04 - Leadership! Google, Guido van Rossum, PSF

2006-01-03 Thread Duncan Booth
Alex Martelli wrote: Duncan Booth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That's a horrible suggestion (using id's, not the bit about separate namespaces). If you use the id then attributes will persist beyond the lifetime of the object and may suddenly reappear on other unrelated objects later. The

Re: - E04 - Leadership! Google, Guido van Rossum, PSF

2006-01-03 Thread Ilias Lazaridis
Alex Martelli wrote: Ilias Lazaridis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [...] - google stuff http://lazaridis.com/case/lang/python.html#simple_variable_access this leads to a new limitation: #LIMITATION: large amount of repetitive code One normally does not define large numbers of identical accessors

OT: Degrees as barriers to entry [was Re: - E04 - Leadership! Google, Guido van Rossum, PSF]

2006-01-03 Thread Steven D'Aprano
On Tue, 03 Jan 2006 08:27:39 -0800, Alex Martelli wrote: Or some even more stringent qualification, such as the state's Bar exam for lawyers -- you may not be able to sit for that exam w/o the appropriate degree, but the degree by itself is not enough, you still have to pass the exam. It is

Re: - E04 - Leadership! Google, Guido van Rossum, PSF

2006-01-03 Thread Alex Martelli
Ilias Lazaridis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... One normally does not define large numbers of identical accessors (there [...] - (extensive elaboration) possibly one can provide the code for something similar to the ruby attr_accessor: class Talker def sayHello puts Hello

Re: OT: Degrees as barriers to entry [was Re: - E04 - Leadership! Google, Guido van Rossum, PSF]

2006-01-03 Thread Aahz
[much stuff deleted that I mostly agree with to get at an interesting chunk of disagreement] In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], Steven D'Aprano [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: By contrast, today's professional bodies like law, medicine etc. have independent standards of skill that must be met. I don't wish

Re: - E04 - Leadership! Google, Guido van Rossum, PSF

2006-01-02 Thread Ilias Lazaridis
Alex Martelli wrote: Ilias Lazaridis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... note: Anton Vredegoor wrote: only hire people with long backstabbing histories. Such as...? Guido van Rossum? Greg Stein? Vint Cerf? Ben Goodger? ... The employees you've mentioned should have most possibly the

Re: - E04 - Leadership! Google, Guido van Rossum, PSF

2006-01-02 Thread Anton Vredegoor
Alex Martelli wrote: Anton Vredegoor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... Google's not a nice company (yeah, I know I'm posting from a google account). If you look at their job requirements it's clear they will only hire people with long backstabbing histories. Such as...? Guido van Rossum?

Re: - E04 - Leadership! Google, Guido van Rossum, PSF

2006-01-02 Thread Alex Martelli
Ilias Lazaridis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... ... or equivalent (I do believe all I named have at least a Bachelor degree, but with the undisputable results they've shown afterwards, I think they'd all meet the or equivalent clause anyway). * BS or MS in Computer Science or

Re: - E04 - Leadership! Google, Guido van Rossum, PSF

2006-01-02 Thread Jaap Spies
Alex Martelli wrote: Anton Vredegoor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... only hire people with long backstabbing histories. Such as...? Guido van Rossum? Greg Stein? Vint Cerf? Ben Goodger? ... No insider information is necessary, the job requirements make it absolutely clear (at least

Re: - E04 - Leadership! Google, Guido van Rossum, PSF

2006-01-02 Thread Martin P. Hellwig
Anton Vredegoor wrote: cut description of modern western society Most people can survive (without damaging their souls so to speak) when working for corruption themselves in this way, but sooner or later one is asked to corrupt others (defending one's title during a promotion, leading a

Re: - E04 - Leadership! Google, Guido van Rossum, PSF

2006-01-01 Thread Alex Martelli
Anton Vredegoor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... Google's not a nice company (yeah, I know I'm posting from a google account). If you look at their job requirements it's clear they will only hire people with long backstabbing histories. Such as...? Guido van Rossum? Greg Stein? Vint Cerf?

Re: - E04 - Leadership! Google, Guido van Rossum, PSF

2006-01-01 Thread Ilias Lazaridis
Alex Martelli wrote: Anton Vredegoor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... Google's not a nice company (yeah, I know I'm posting from a google account). If you look at their job requirements it's clear they will only hire people with long backstabbing histories. Such as...? Guido van Rossum?

Re: - E04 - Leadership! Google, Guido van Rossum, PSF

2006-01-01 Thread Alex Martelli
Ilias Lazaridis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... only hire people with long backstabbing histories. Such as...? Guido van Rossum? Greg Stein? Vint Cerf? Ben Goodger? ... The employees you've mentioned should have most possibly the basic google employment requirement: BS or MS... [1].

Re: [EVALUATION] - E04 - Leadership! Google, Guido van Rossum, PSF

2005-12-30 Thread Ilias Lazaridis
Martin P. Hellwig wrote: [...] - (complex elaborations) So the sum it up my unanswered question to you so far are: - What is your definition of Efficiency http://lazaridis.com/efficiency/definitions.html (as stated on the website, any feedback is welcome. But please not within this thread).

Re: [EVALUATION] - E04 - Leadership! Google, Guido van Rossum, PSF

2005-12-29 Thread Ilias Lazaridis
Martin P. Hellwig wrote: Ilias Lazaridis wrote: cut The only thing that holds you theoretically back is acknowledged authority by the participating group _and_ yourself and of course the resource for restricted information. what do you mean by resource for restricted information?

Re: [EVALUATION] - E04 - Leadership! Google, Guido van Rossum, PSF

2005-12-29 Thread Martin P. Hellwig
Ilias Lazaridis wrote: cut I'm suspecting that we have different definitions (or at least the implications of that) of used terms. I think it's important to first define these definition in a form acceptable to both of us. In the link you gave, the title was Efficiency Management. Now I believe

Re: [EVALUATION] - E04 - Leadership! Google, Guido van Rossum, PSF

2005-12-29 Thread Ilias Lazaridis
Martin P. Hellwig wrote: Ilias Lazaridis wrote: cut I'm suspecting that we have different definitions (or at least the implications of that) of used terms. I think it's important to first define these definition in a form acceptable to both of us. In the link you gave, the title was

Re: - E04 - Leadership! Google, Guido van Rossum, PSF

2005-12-29 Thread Ilias Lazaridis
Anton Vredegoor wrote: Robert Kern wrote: I have a friend who works at Google. He has no backstabbing history at all. Stop insulting my friends. Your friends work for people who would never hire me. My resume sucks, but I'm not a bad person or a mediocre programmer. They sold out. For

Re: - E04 - Leadership! Google, Guido van Rossum, PSF

2005-12-29 Thread Michael Schneider
Congratulations to Guide, Mike Harald Armin Massa wrote: Guido at Google: a message in THE public forum c.l.p. A confirmation by Martellibot, that Guido is IN FACT sitting 15m distant from him; and everybody in Python knows where Martellibot has his desk. Can it get more official than

Re: [EVALUATION] - E04 - Leadership! Google, Guido van Rossum, PSF

2005-12-29 Thread Martin P. Hellwig
Ilias Lazaridis wrote: Martin P. Hellwig wrote: Ilias Lazaridis wrote: cut I'm suspecting that we have different definitions (or at least the implications of that) of used terms. I think it's important to first define these definition in a form acceptable to both of us. In the link you

Re: [EVALUATION] - E04 - Leadership! Google, Guido van Rossum, PSF

2005-12-29 Thread Ilias Lazaridis
Martin P. Hellwig wrote: Ilias Lazaridis wrote: Martin P. Hellwig wrote: Ilias Lazaridis wrote: cut I'm suspecting that we have different definitions (or at least the implications of that) of used terms. I think it's important to first define these definition in a form acceptable to both

Re: - E04 - Leadership! Google, Guido van Rossum, PSF

2005-12-29 Thread Chris Smith
John == John J Lee [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: John Guido may or may not realise it, but he seems to have been John managing people (in some sense of 'managing', anyway) quite John successfully over the past decade or so. John John Just you shush! If he hears you, he'll return

Re: [EVALUATION] - E04 - Leadership! Google, Guido van Rossum, PSF

2005-12-28 Thread Martin P. Hellwig
Ilias Lazaridis wrote: Martin P. Hellwig wrote: Ilias Lazaridis wrote: cut So I guess you volunteer http://www.python.org/psf/volunteer.html ? I volunteer and contribute already (with a general validity and python specific analysis) A mediator should communicate the findings and

Re: [EVALUATION] - E04 - Leadership! Google, Guido van Rossum, PSF

2005-12-28 Thread Ilias Lazaridis
Martin P. Hellwig wrote: Ilias Lazaridis wrote: Martin P. Hellwig wrote: Ilias Lazaridis wrote: cut So I guess you volunteer http://www.python.org/psf/volunteer.html ? I volunteer and contribute already (with a general validity and python specific analysis) A mediator should communicate

Re: [EVALUATION] - E04 - Leadership! Google, Guido van Rossum, PSF

2005-12-28 Thread Martin P. Hellwig
Ilias Lazaridis wrote: cut The only thing that holds you theoretically back is acknowledged authority by the participating group _and_ yourself and of course the resource for restricted information. what do you mean by resource for restricted information? Well, I mean that you should know

Re: - E04 - Leadership! Google, Guido van Rossum, PSF

2005-12-28 Thread Anton Vredegoor
Michael wrote: Ilias Lazaridis wrote: [ panic, fear, worry ] What's wrong with just saying Congratulations! ? First thing I thought was ooh, maybe Guido will be able to work on P3K there - after all that would benefit Google *and* everyone else :-) Google's not a nice company (yeah, I

Re: - E04 - Leadership! Google, Guido van Rossum, PSF

2005-12-28 Thread Robert Kern
Anton Vredegoor wrote: Michael wrote: Ilias Lazaridis wrote: [ panic, fear, worry ] What's wrong with just saying Congratulations! ? First thing I thought was ooh, maybe Guido will be able to work on P3K there - after all that would benefit Google *and* everyone else :-) Google's not a

Re: - E04 - Leadership! Google, Guido van Rossum, PSF

2005-12-28 Thread Anton Vredegoor
Robert Kern wrote: I have a friend who works at Google. He has no backstabbing history at all. Stop insulting my friends. Your friends work for people who would never hire me. My resume sucks, but I'm not a bad person or a mediocre programmer. They sold out. For Software Engineer:

Re: - E04 - Leadership! Google, Guido van Rossum, PSF

2005-12-28 Thread Luis M. González
Anton Vredegoor wrote: Google's not a nice company (yeah, I know I'm posting from a google account). If you look at their job requirements it's clear they will only hire people with long backstabbing histories. There seems to be no room left for world improving undamaged souls in that

Re: - E04 - Leadership! Google, Guido van Rossum, PSF

2005-12-28 Thread Mike Meyer
Anton Vredegoor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Ok. That's a bit harder. I suppose we agree that if we have an intelligent program that is more intelligent than a human and have this program design an even more intelligent program than things start to accelerate pretty fast? There's your

Re: - E04 - Leadership! Google, Guido van Rossum, PSF

2005-12-28 Thread Fredrik Lundh
Mike Meyer wrote: We aren't any closer to having a real AI than we were in the 60s. note that the name of the the poster who started this thread only needs minimal adjustments to become an anagram for alien lizard AI, which might indicate that the government has access to some kind of AI, but

Re: - E04 - Leadership! Google, Guido van Rossum, PSF

2005-12-28 Thread Robert Kern
Anton Vredegoor wrote: Robert Kern wrote: I have a friend who works at Google. He has no backstabbing history at all. Stop insulting my friends. Your friends work for people who would never hire me. This is not a crime. My resume sucks, but I'm not a bad person or a mediocre programmer.

Re: - E04 - Leadership! Google, Guido van Rossum, PSF

2005-12-28 Thread Hans Nowak
Robert Kern wrote: PyPy will not bring about the Singularity. But if it did, imagine how cool that would look on the developers resumes... :-) -- Hans Nowak http://zephyrfalcon.org/ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: - E04 - Leadership! Google, Guido van Rossum, PSF

2005-12-28 Thread skip
Hans Robert Kern wrote: PyPy will not bring about the Singularity. Hans But if it did, imagine how cool that would look on the developers Hans resumes... :-) +1 QOTW Skip -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: - E04 - Leadership! Google, Guido van Rossum, PSF

2005-12-28 Thread John J. Lee
Harald Armin Massa [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [...] Allow me to quote Greg Stein: Ha! Guido would quit in a heartbeat if you tried to make him manage people. That just isn't where he's at. He's absolutely brilliant and loves to write excellent code. Great. We're gonna let him do just that :-)

Re: - E04 - Leadership! Google, Guido van Rossum, PSF

2005-12-28 Thread skip
John Guido may or may not realise it, but he seems to have been John managing people (in some sense of 'managing', anyway) quite John successfully over the past decade or so. Sssh! Don't tell him! Hopefully the PSU won't find out and --

Re: - E04 - Leadership! Google, Guido van Rossum, PSF

2005-12-27 Thread Harald Armin Massa
Guido at Google: a message in THE public forum c.l.p. A confirmation by Martellibot, that Guido is IN FACT sitting 15m distant from him; and everybody in Python knows where Martellibot has his desk. Can it get more official than this? yeah: a confirmation by Greg Stein @ Google within slashdot,

Re: [EVALUATION] - E04 - Leadership! Google, Guido van Rossum, PSF

2005-12-27 Thread Martin P. Hellwig
Ilias Lazaridis wrote: cut So I guess you volunteer http://www.python.org/psf/volunteer.html ? -- mph -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: [EVALUATION] - E04 - Leadership! Google, Guido van Rossum, PSF

2005-12-27 Thread Michael
Ilias Lazaridis wrote: [ panic, fear, worry ] What's wrong with just saying Congratulations! ? First thing I thought was ooh, maybe Guido will be able to work on P3K there - after all that would benefit Google *and* everyone else :-) (Especially if he uses PyPy to experiment and play in ... :)

Re: [EVALUATION] - E04 - Leadership! Google, Guido van Rossum, PSF

2005-12-27 Thread Ilias Lazaridis
Michael wrote: Ilias Lazaridis wrote: [ panic, fear, worry ] What's wrong with just saying Congratulations! ? nothing. But enouth people do this. I am focusing on weaknesses threats: http://lazaridis.com/efficiency/graph/analysis.html First thing I thought was ooh, maybe Guido will

Re: [EVALUATION] - E04 - Leadership! Google, Guido van Rossum, PSF

2005-12-27 Thread Ilias Lazaridis
Martin P. Hellwig wrote: Ilias Lazaridis wrote: cut So I guess you volunteer http://www.python.org/psf/volunteer.html ? I volunteer and contribute already (with a general validity and python specific analysis) A mediator should communicate the findings and suggestion (after verifying them)

Re: - E04 - Leadership! Google, Guido van Rossum, PSF

2005-12-27 Thread Ilias Lazaridis
Harald Armin Massa wrote: [...] - (comments) Thank you for your comments. - TAG.python.evolution.negate.apotheosis . -- http://lazaridis.com -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

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