Re: Need a compelling argument to use Django instead of Rails

Damjan wrote:> > Starting a new Apache process with python included (trough mod_python) is > even worse than CGI. Yes, but I think only for the first interaction after being dormant for a period. In fact I've noticed that hitting http://www.xfeedme.com the first time is usually slow. But once th

Re: Need a compelling argument to use Django instead of Rails

>> Yes, but your mod_python programs still run with the privileges of the >> Apache process, as are all the other mod_python programs. This means that >> my mod_python program can (at least) read files belonging to you - >> including your config file holding your database password > > I think

Re: Need a compelling argument to use Django instead of Rails

Damjan wrote: > Yes, but your mod_python programs still run with the privileges of the > Apache process, as are all the other mod_python programs. This means that > my mod_python program can (at least) read files belonging to you - > including your config file holding your database password I

Re: Need a compelling argument to use Django instead of Rails

>> I didn't realize you could do shared hosting with mod_python, because >> of the lack of security barriers between Python objects (i.e. someone >> else's application could reach into yours). You really need a >> separate interpreter per user. > > mod_python uses sub-interpreters - can be per vi

Re: Need a compelling argument to use Django instead of Rails

Paul Rubin wrote: > "Ben Sizer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >> Another perfectly good reason is that PHP pages are much simpler to >> deploy than any given Python application server. Just add the code into >> your HTML pages as required and you're done. Python could come close to >> this if somethi

Re: Need a compelling argument to use Django instead of Rails

Ben Sizer wrote: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > Paul Rubin wrote: > > > A typical shared hosting place might > > > support 1000's of users with ONE apache/php instance (running in a > > > whole bunch of threads or processes, to be sure). > > > > You just need to run multiple apache > > instances, w

Re: Need a compelling argument to use Django instead of Rails

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Paul Rubin wrote: > > A typical shared hosting place might > > support 1000's of users with ONE apache/php instance (running in a > > whole bunch of threads or processes, to be sure). > > You just need to run multiple apache > instances, which is advisable anyway. > The h

Re: Need a compelling argument to use Django instead of Rails

Paul Rubin wrote: > I didn't realize you could do shared hosting with mod_python, because > of the lack of security barriers between Python objects (i.e. someone > else's application could reach into yours). You really need a > separate interpreter per user. A typical shared hosting place might

Re: Need a compelling argument to use Django instead of Rails

Ray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Damjan wrote: > > BTW I'd choose TurboGears for it's flexibility, but I guess Django could be > > nice when more rapid results are needed (and the problem doesn't fall too > > far from the Django sweet spot). > > Well actually I was thinking of exaclty the same th

Re: Need a compelling argument to use Django instead of Rails

Bruno Desthuilliers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: ... > >>And of course import hooks. > > > > Python?? Where? > > RTFM: > http://www.python.org/doc/2.3.5/lib/built-in-funcs.html Perhaps a better reference is . Alex -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/li

Re: Need a compelling argument to use Django instead of Rails

Paul Rubin wrote: > "Ben Sizer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > Another perfectly good reason is that PHP pages are much simpler to > > deploy than any given Python application server. Just add the code into > > your HTML pages as required and you're done. Python could come close to > > this if som

Re: Need a compelling argument to use Django instead of Rails

"Ben Sizer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Another perfectly good reason is that PHP pages are much simpler to > deploy than any given Python application server. Just add the code into > your HTML pages as required and you're done. Python could come close to > this if something like the Python Serve

Re: Need a compelling argument to use Django instead of Rails

Vincent Delporte wrote: > On 31 Jul 2006 07:05:27 -0700, "Ben Sizer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >Typically you run PHP as a module in your webserver, so there should be > >no process startup overhead. mod_python provides the same sort of > >functionality for Python, but is not as popular or widel

Re: Need a compelling argument to use Django instead of Rails

On 2006-07-31 14:37:26, Bruno Desthuilliers wrote: >> So, if mod_python provides the same functionality, it's not the main >> reason why Python developers use application servers while PHP users >> still program with page codes in /htdocs. >> >> Why do PHP users stick to that old way of things? B

Re: Need a compelling argument to use Django instead of Rails

Vincent Delporte wrote: > On 31 Jul 2006 07:05:27 -0700, "Ben Sizer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Typically you run PHP as a module in your webserver, so there should be >> no process startup overhead. mod_python provides the same sort of >> functionality for Python, but is not as popular or widel

Re: Need a compelling argument to use Django instead of Rails

"Ben Sizer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >As for PyGame, it's > good that development there has picked up again but I'd love to see it > broaden its horizons beyond SDL. Maybe that is impractical, however. By wrapping SDL and interfacing to Numeric, Pete Shinners p

Re: Need a compelling argument to use Django instead of Rails

On 31 Jul 2006 07:05:27 -0700, "Ben Sizer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >Typically you run PHP as a module in your webserver, so there should be >no process startup overhead. mod_python provides the same sort of >functionality for Python, but is not as popular or widely installed as >the PHP Apache m

Re: Need a compelling argument to use Django instead of Rails

Gerhard Fiedler wrote: > On 2006-07-29 01:07:12, Tim Roberts wrote: > > > Vincent Delporte <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> > >>BTW, what is the advantage of running a CherryPy/Django server instead > >>of the regular way of code in pages? Improved performance because the > >>Python interpreter is a

Re: Need a compelling argument to use Django instead of Rails

On 2006-07-29 01:07:12, Tim Roberts wrote: > Vincent Delporte <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >>BTW, what is the advantage of running a CherryPy/Django server instead >>of the regular way of code in pages? Improved performance because the >>Python interpreter is already up and running? > > Exactly.

Re: Need a compelling argument to use Django instead of Rails

Terry Reedy wrote: > "Ben Sizer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > PyGame was barely maintained for a year, and is based on SDL which was > > also barely maintained for a year, and which hasn't kept up with > > hardware advances at all. > > I believe there is a recen

Re: Need a compelling argument to use Django instead of Rails

Sybren Stuvel wrote: > Ben Sizer enlightened us with: > > PyGame was barely maintained for a year, and is based on SDL which > > was also barely maintained for a year, and which hasn't kept up with > > hardware advances at all. > > Still, ID Software and Epic both use SDL + OpenGL for their games.

Re: Need a compelling argument to use Django instead of Rails

Paul Boddie wrote: > Ben Sizer wrote: > > > > Even C++ comes with OpenGL in the standard library. > > Which standard library? Sorry, it was a long day, and I used entirely the wrong term here. By that, I meant "typically shipped with each compiler". I've never had to even install a development lib

Re: Need a compelling argument to use Django instead of Rails

On Sat, 29 Jul 2006 04:07:12 GMT, Tim Roberts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >Exactly. The Python interpreter can take a significant fraction of a >second to start. For the typical short web request, the overhead can add >up. > >On the other hand, unless you're handling dozens of requests per minute,

Re: Need a compelling argument to use Django instead of Rails

Vincent Delporte <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >BTW, what is the advantage of running a CherryPy/Django server instead >of the regular way of code in pages? Improved performance because the >Python interpreter is already up and running? Exactly. The Python interpreter can take a significant fracti

Re: Need a compelling argument to use Django instead of Rails

Ben Sizer wrote: > > Even C++ comes with OpenGL in the standard library. Which standard library? [...] > Does PyQT play well with PyGame? And isn't it more of a windowing > environment? I'll have to let that question go, but I imagine the PyQt mailing list would be able to provide some kind of

Re: Need a compelling argument to use Django instead of Rails

On Fri, 28 Jul 2006 17:58:24 +0200, Bruno Desthuilliers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >Ben Sizer wrote: >(snip) >> Pretty much every Python web offering revolves around you having your >> own server with the luxury of running your own long-running processes >> on it. BTW, what is the advantage of ru

Re: Need a compelling argument to use Django instead of Rails

"Ben Sizer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > PyGame was barely maintained for a year, and is based on SDL which was > also barely maintained for a year, and which hasn't kept up with > hardware advances at all. I believe there is a recent release of SDL, but which wh

Re: Need a compelling argument to use Django instead of Rails

Paul Boddie wrote: > I can only profess familiarity with Pygame which still seems to do more > or less what it always did, although I haven't kept up with the > community, but I have recently released a simple game which seems to > work quite well. By "simple", I mean two-dimensional playing areas,

Re: Need a compelling argument to use Django instead of Rails

Ben Sizer wrote: (snip) > Pretty much every Python web offering revolves around you having your > own server with the luxury of running your own long-running processes > on it. This is becoming less and less of a "luxury" - the cost of dedicated web servers is really dropping at eyesight. -- br

Re: Need a compelling argument to use Django instead of Rails

Ben Sizer wrote: > Paul Boddie wrote: > > Ben Sizer wrote: > > > > > > In my case, multimedia and game support is patchy, > > > > There are lots of multimedia and game frameworks for Python. Which ones > > have you tried and why are they insufficient? > > PyGame was barely maintained for a year, an

Re: Need a compelling argument to use Django instead of Rails

Ben Sizer wrote: > a minimal layer over the C interface anyway. DirectX support only > appeared this year unless you used IronPython, and it doesn't seem very > popular. IronPython is not released yet, I do hope it will become popular though. It's in RC1 now and should be released soon. I'm really

Re: Need a compelling argument to use Django instead of Rails

Ben Sizer wrote: > Roman Susi wrote: > > Ben Sizer wrote: > > > The problem is that Python is the 2nd best language for everything. ;) > > > > Is it a bad thing? > > I don't know. I suppose that depends on how you define 'bad'! For me, > it is often inconvenient, because I'd prefer to use Python b

Re: Need a compelling argument to use Django instead of Rails

Paul Boddie wrote: > Ben Sizer wrote: > > > > In my case, multimedia and game support is patchy, > > There are lots of multimedia and game frameworks for Python. Which ones > have you tried and why are they insufficient? PyGame was barely maintained for a year, and is based on SDL which was also b

Re: Need a compelling argument to use Django instead of Rails

Ben Sizer wrote: > > In my case, multimedia and game support is patchy, There are lots of multimedia and game frameworks for Python. Which ones have you tried and why are they insufficient? > and web development support is still oriented towards the Java/enterprise > user - if CGI > doesn't suff

Re: Need a compelling argument to use Django instead of Rails

Roman Susi wrote: > Ben Sizer wrote: > > The problem is that Python is the 2nd best language for everything. ;) > > Is it a bad thing? I don't know. I suppose that depends on how you define 'bad'! For me, it is often inconvenient, because I'd prefer to use Python but generally find that I have to

Re: Need a compelling argument to use Django instead of Rails

Ben Sizer wrote: > Ray wrote: > >>Just that it's a big, huge, humongous pity to see Python keeps missing >>the big thing over and over again. Last time when biotechnology was >>hot, which language became The Language? Perl. Now simple web app is >>hot? It's Ruby. > > > The problem is that Python

Re: Need a compelling argument to use Django instead of Rails

Bruno Desthuilliers wrote: > Please define "security". I fail to see how language-inforced access > restriction (and mandatory declarative static typing etc) relates to > 'security'. As far as I'm concerned, security is about protecting a > system from piracy, not about inflicting useless pain to

Re: Need a compelling argument to use Django instead of Rails

Kay Schluehr wrote: > Bruno Desthuilliers wrote: > > Care to write an external DSL in Ruby ? >> >>I mean : write a parser and interpreter for a DSL. In Ruby. > > > It is this kind of stuff Rubys talk about when they mention "DSLs in > Ruby": > > http://www.artima.com/rubycs/articles/ruby_a

Re: Need a compelling argument to use Django instead of Rails

Bruno Desthuilliers wrote: > >>Care to write an external DSL in Ruby ? > > I mean : write a parser and interpreter for a DSL. In Ruby. It is this kind of stuff Rubys talk about when they mention "DSLs in Ruby": http://www.artima.com/rubycs/articles/ruby_as_dsl.html -- http://mail.python.org/m

Re: Need a compelling argument to use Django instead of Rails

Jaroslaw Zabiello wrote: > Of course, I you like, you can freeze every object you want and nobody can > be able to open and change it. You can also trace all activity for changing > something to objects because Ruby has nice system hooks implemented. Ruby > has nice security system (private, prote

Re: Need a compelling argument to use Django instead of Rails

Jaroslaw Zabiello wrote: > On Wed, 26 Jul 2006 18:23:22 +0200, Bruno Desthuilliers wrote: > > Care to write an external DSL in Ruby ? >>> >>>? >> >>I mean : write a parser and interpreter for a DSL. In Ruby. > > > I see. Nope. I do not like code generators. I'm not talking about "code gen

Re: Need a compelling argument to use Django instead of Rails

Jaroslaw Zabiello wrote: > On Wed, 26 Jul 2006 18:20:44 +0200, Bruno Desthuilliers wrote: > > >>May I suggest that you learn some Lisp dialect ? > > > Nope. I hate Lisp syntax. This should not prevent you from learning it - at least, you'd then avoid making dumb statements... > >>>Of course

Re: Need a compelling argument to use Django instead of Rails

Jaroslaw Zabiello wrote: > >> Ruby > >> has nice security system (private, protected, public scopes for methods and > >> attributes, > > > > This is not "security", this is data-hiding. > > No. Data hiding are in Python. Ruby uses security similiar to Java. If the > class has method marked as priva

Re: Need a compelling argument to use Django instead of Rails

Jaroslaw Zabiello <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > On Mon, 24 Jul 2006 14:23:21 +0200, Sybren Stuvel wrote: > > > Another reason for me not to use Ruby, is that there is no distinction > > between those two lines of code: > > > > x = somefunc > > x = somefunc() > > It has no meaning. Just use alwa

Re: Need a compelling argument to use Django instead of Rails

Jaroslaw Zabiello wrote: > On Wed, 26 Jul 2006 18:20:44 +0200, Bruno Desthuilliers wrote: [Quoting JZ...] > >> Ruby > >> has nice security system (private, protected, public scopes for methods and > >> attributes, > > > > This is not "security", this is data-hiding. > > No. Data hiding are in Pyt

Re: Need a compelling argument to use Django instead of Rails

Joe Knapka <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > John J. Lee wrote: > > > The fact that "open classes" are apparently thought to be a good thing > > in Ruby puzzles (and worries) me. > > This objection strikes me as having the same > nature as, "Python's lack of strong protection for > class members puz

Re: Need a compelling argument to use Django instead of Rails

On Wed, 26 Jul 2006 18:23:22 +0200, Bruno Desthuilliers wrote: >>>Care to write an external DSL in Ruby ? >> ? > > I mean : write a parser and interpreter for a DSL. In Ruby. I see. Nope. I do not like code generators. In this sense every template system is DSL. E.g. Smarty Templates for PHP. Yo

Re: Need a compelling argument to use Django instead of Rails

On Wed, 26 Jul 2006 18:20:44 +0200, Bruno Desthuilliers wrote: > May I suggest that you learn some Lisp dialect ? Nope. I hate Lisp syntax. >> Of course, I you like, you can freeze every object you want and nobody can >> be able to open and change it. You can also trace all activity for changin

Re: Need a compelling argument to use Django instead of Rails

Ray wrote: > > But you can't compile a Python module into a dotNet library that is > > used from C# which is the very essence of the CLR. IronPython is not > > more usefull than PythonNet. > > At least for my case I will use IronPython for higher level task, and > perhaps calls libraries written i

Re: Need a compelling argument to use Django instead of Rails

Bruno Desthuilliers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Hopefully it's more secure than Java wrt/ attributes/methods access > restriction. IIRC, accessing a 'private' attribute thru reflection is > quite possible in Java. That's controlled by some flag you can set. Browser applet sandboxes depend on th

Re: Need a compelling argument to use Django instead of Rails

Paul Rubin wrote: > Bruno Desthuilliers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > >>>Ruby has nice security system (private, protected, public scopes >>>for methods and attributes, >> >>This is not "security", this is data-hiding. And IIRC, Ruby's attributes >>are always private - just like in Smalltalk FWIW.

Re: Need a compelling argument to use Django instead of Rails

Bruno Desthuilliers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > Ruby has nice security system (private, protected, public scopes > > for methods and attributes, > > This is not "security", this is data-hiding. And IIRC, Ruby's attributes > are always private - just like in Smalltalk FWIW. I don't know anythi

Re: Need a compelling argument to use Django instead of Rails

Jaroslaw Zabiello wrote: > On Wed, 26 Jul 2006 18:01:50 +0200, Bruno Desthuilliers wrote: > > I have difficulty imagining how a language could be more dynamic than Python... >>> >>>E.g. try to extends or redefine builtin Python classes on fly. >> >>Ok, this is one of the few restrictions

Re: Need a compelling argument to use Django instead of Rails

Jaroslaw Zabiello wrote: > On 26 Jul 2006 08:16:21 -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > >>>E.g. try to extends or redefine builtin Python classes on fly. Ruby is so >>>flexible that it can be used to create Domain-specific Programming >>>Languages. >> >>This, of course, is really cool if you are w

Re: Need a compelling argument to use Django instead of Rails

On Wed, 26 Jul 2006 18:01:50 +0200, Bruno Desthuilliers wrote: >>>I have difficulty imagining how a language could be more dynamic than >>>Python... >> >> E.g. try to extends or redefine builtin Python classes on fly. > > Ok, this is one of the few restrictions - builtin types. Yeah. Have > some

Re: Need a compelling argument to use Django instead of Rails

Jaroslaw Zabiello wrote: > On Wed, 26 Jul 2006 16:25:48 +0200, Bruno Desthuilliers wrote: > > >>I have difficulty imagining how a language could be more dynamic than >>Python... > > > E.g. try to extends or redefine builtin Python classes on fly. Ok, this is one of the few restrictions - built

Re: Need a compelling argument to use Django instead of Rails

Ray wrote: > Just that it's a big, huge, humongous pity to see Python keeps missing > the big thing over and over again. Last time when biotechnology was > hot, which language became The Language? Perl. Now simple web app is > hot? It's Ruby. The problem is that Python is the 2nd best language for

Re: Need a compelling argument to use Django instead of Rails

On 26 Jul 2006 08:16:21 -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >> E.g. try to extends or redefine builtin Python classes on fly. Ruby is so >> flexible that it can be used to create Domain-specific Programming >> Languages. > > This, of course, is really cool if you are working > all by yourself on a di

Re: Need a compelling argument to use Django instead of Rails

On 26 Jul 2006 08:16:21 -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > >Jaroslaw Zabiello wrote: >> On Wed, 26 Jul 2006 16:25:48 +0200, Bruno Desthuilliers wrote: >> >> > I have difficulty imagining how a language could be more dynamic than >> > Python... >> >> E.g. try to extends or redefine builtin Python cla

Re: Need a compelling argument to use Django instead of Rails

Jaroslaw Zabiello wrote: > On Wed, 26 Jul 2006 16:25:48 +0200, Bruno Desthuilliers wrote: > > > I have difficulty imagining how a language could be more dynamic than > > Python... > > E.g. try to extends or redefine builtin Python classes on fly. Ruby is so > flexible that it can be used to create

Re: Need a compelling argument to use Django instead of Rails

On Wed, 26 Jul 2006 16:25:48 +0200, Bruno Desthuilliers wrote: > I have difficulty imagining how a language could be more dynamic than > Python... E.g. try to extends or redefine builtin Python classes on fly. Ruby is so flexible that it can be used to create Domain-specific Programming Languages

Re: Need a compelling argument to use Django instead of Rails

Ray wrote: > > The lack of support for Oracle and SQL Server by Django is also a > killer that'll prevent Django from being picked up by a LOT of > companies (sadly, including mine :( ). > Uh, yeah. I was aware of Django but haven't had the time to delve into it. If it doesn't support these large

Re: Need a compelling argument to use Django instead of Rails

Jaroslaw Zabiello wrote: (snip) > Ruby is more dynamic than Python Care to elaborate ? I played a bit with Ruby and failed to come to the same conclusion... (the two main differences I noticed are 1/ Ruby is expression-based and 2/ it has a more canonical object model - IOW, it mostly cloned Smal

Re: Need a compelling argument to use Django instead of Rails

Jaroslaw Zabiello wrote: > On Mon, 24 Jul 2006 12:23:12 +0100, Steve Holden wrote: > > > > The impression I get is that Rails is relatively inflexible > > on database schemas, > > Django has the same problem. E.g. both Django ORM and ActiveRecord cannot > work with complex primary keys. But for Rai

Re: Need a compelling argument to use Django instead of Rails

On Mon, 24 Jul 2006 14:23:21 +0200, Sybren Stuvel wrote: > Another reason for me not to use Ruby, is that there is no distinction > between those two lines of code: > > x = somefunc > x = somefunc() It has no meaning. Just use always () if you like. But sometimes it is better to avoid them to ha

Re: Need a compelling argument to use Django instead of Rails

On Mon, 24 Jul 2006 13:22:33 +0200, Sybren Stuvel wrote: >> "Nah, we're not interested in Python." > > Ask them why. I know why. In general Java guys can recognize Ruby as more friendly language than Python, more secured (there is almost no security in Python). There is also much more hype about

Re: Need a compelling argument to use Django instead of Rails

On Mon, 24 Jul 2006 12:23:12 +0100, Steve Holden wrote: > The impression I get is that Rails is relatively inflexible > on database schemas, Django has the same problem. E.g. both Django ORM and ActiveRecord cannot work with complex primary keys. But for Rails there is a solution for even very

Re: Need a compelling argument to use Django instead of Rails

I would suggest trying to pick up Ruby. Knowing both Python and Ruby has helped me in that I can choose whichever tool is the best fit. There are certain cases where I have to abandon Ruby for a certain project because the library isn't mature enough or cross platform enough for my requirements. So

Re: Need a compelling argument to use Django instead of Rails

John J. Lee wrote: > I get that overall impression of Django too (as being more tightly > coupled to itself, hence less flexible, when compared with TurboGears > in particular). I haven't done much with it yet, though (and > presumably the 'magic-removal' branch landing did some good). > > What do

Re: Need a compelling argument to use Django instead of Rails

Damjan wrote: > BTW I'd choose TurboGears for it's flexibility, but I guess Django could be > nice when more rapid results are needed (and the problem doesn't fall too > far from the Django sweet spot). Well actually I was thinking of exaclty the same thing, because our apps are mostly CRUD apps

Re: Need a compelling argument to use Django instead of Rails

Kay Schluehr wrote: > Aren't they "rushing" for years? The last update of the Jython news > page is from march 2005. This is not very encouraging even if there is > a secret life of Jython. Yeah I know... but I've been subscribing to jython-dev for quite sometime, and the activity there is surely

Re: Need a compelling argument to use Django instead of Rails

Joe Knapka wrote: > > Steve Yegge's "Opinionated Elf" is an example of a problem > that is very easy and elegant to solve with open classes, > and painful to solve when classes are closed: > http://www.cabochon.com/~stevey/blog-rants/polymorphism-fails.html For some value of "elegant", I suppose:

Re: Need a compelling argument to use Django instead of Rails

Joe Knapka wrote: (snip) > Classes are effectively open in Python, too, at least > where methods are concerned, since one can do > klass.__dict__["myMethod"]=myMethod. actually, klass.myMethod = myMethod is enough... -- bruno desthuilliers python -c "print '@'.join(['.'.join([w[::-1] for w in p

Re: Need a compelling argument to use Django instead of Rails

Ray wrote: > David Cook wrote: > > On 2006-07-24, Sybren Stuvel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > Jython isn't up to par with current Python versions either. > > > > But the last release is up to the level of C-Python 2.2 or so. I don't > > really feel like I'm missing that much with it. > > Yo

Re: Need a compelling argument to use Django instead of Rails

Joe Knapka ha scritto: > Classes are effectively open in Python, too, at least > where methods are concerned, since one can do > klass.__dict__["myMethod"]=myMethod. Yes, but builtin classes in Python are closed and this is the relevant point. Michele Simionato -- http://mail

Re: Need a compelling argument to use Django instead of Rails

> A few months ago I had to choose between RoR and a Python framework > (TurboGears in that case). I picked TurboGears because of the language > maturity and all the third party libs. i.e. I can do PDF reporting with > reportLab, control OpenOffice with Python.. This is a good argument, you should

Re: Need a compelling argument to use Django instead of Rails

John J. Lee wrote: > The fact that "open classes" are apparently thought to be a good thing > in Ruby puzzles (and worries) me. This objection strikes me as having the same nature as, "Python's lack of strong protection for class members puzzles (and worries) me". The Pythonic answer to that obj

Re: Need a compelling argument to use Django instead of Rails

Hi, A few months ago I had to choose between RoR and a Python framework (TurboGears in that case). I picked TurboGears because of the language maturity and all the third party libs. i.e. I can do PDF reporting with reportLab, control OpenOffice with Python.. Ruby has still a "cool factor" going wi

Re: Need a compelling argument to use Django instead of Rails

"Ray" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > I just moved to another company that's mainly a Java/.NET shop. I was > happy to find out that there's a movement from the grassroot to try to > convince the boss to use a dynamic language for our development! > > Two of the senior developers, however, are alre

Re: Need a compelling argument to use Django instead of Rails

Steve Holden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: [...] > Well, my view is that both are frameworks, and so you will inevitably > "run out of steam" at some point if your implementation plans become too > ambitious. The impression I get is that Rails is relatively inflexible > on database schemas, and on

Re: Need a compelling argument to use Django instead of Rails

Sybren Stuvel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: [...] > - What I was told from a professor in formal languages, which is > that there is no formal definition of the Ruby language. That's > enough for me to not use it. [...] So you're not using Python either? Probably I don't understand

Re: Need a compelling argument to use Django instead of Rails

Steve Holden wrote: ... > I wouldn't waste your time. "A man convinced against his will is of the > same opinion still", and they already know they aren't interested in > Python. There are probably many other matters about which they are > uninformed and equally determined This is too true. F

Re: Need a compelling argument to use Django instead of Rails

Ray wrote: > I just moved to another company that's mainly a Java/.NET shop. I was > happy to find out that there's a movement from the grassroot to try to > convince the boss to use a dynamic language for our development! > > Two of the senior developers, however, are already rooting for Ruby on

Re: Need a compelling argument to use Django instead of Rails

David Cook wrote: > On 2006-07-24, Sybren Stuvel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Jython isn't up to par with current Python versions either. > > But the last release is up to the level of C-Python 2.2 or so. I don't > really feel like I'm missing that much with it. You mean the alpha? They're r

Re: Need a compelling argument to use Django instead of Rails

On 2006-07-24, Sybren Stuvel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Jython isn't up to par with current Python versions either. But the last release is up to the level of C-Python 2.2 or so. I don't really feel like I'm missing that much with it. Dave Cook -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pyth

Re: Need a compelling argument to use Django instead of Rails

Steve Holden wrote: > Well, my view is that both are frameworks, and so you will inevitably > "run out of steam" at some point if your implementation plans become too > ambitious. The impression I get is that Rails is relatively inflexible > on database schemas, and once you get "off the beaten tra

Re: Need a compelling argument to use Django instead of Rails

Thanks Sybren for the reply! Regarding this point: > The form handling is also excellent. Is it excellent in a way that's "better" than RoR in certain ways? Regards, Ray Sybren Stuvel wrote: > Ray enlightened us with: > > Two of the senior developers, however, are already rooting for Ruby on >

Re: Need a compelling argument to use Django instead of Rails

Ray wrote: > Steve Holden wrote: > >>I wouldn't waste your time. "A man convinced against his will is of the >>same opinion still", and they already know they aren't interested in >>Python. There are probably many other matters about which they are >>uninformed and equally determined. > > > Well

Re: Need a compelling argument to use Django instead of Rails

Tim Heaney wrote: > "Ray" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > > Can you help me with my argument? > > Well, there is this study suggesting Django outperforms Ruby on Rails > > http://wiki.rubyonrails.com/rails/pages/Framework+Performance > > > Meanwhile I think I'll give RoR a try as well. > > Goo

Re: Need a compelling argument to use Django instead of Rails

"Ray" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > Can you help me with my argument? Well, there is this study suggesting Django outperforms Ruby on Rails http://wiki.rubyonrails.com/rails/pages/Framework+Performance > Meanwhile I think I'll give RoR a try as well. Good idea. I think Ruby on Rails is ter

Re: Need a compelling argument to use Django instead of Rails

BTW the link below is good reading! Thanks Steve! Steve Holden wrote: >http://sethgodin.typepad.com/seths_blog/2005/08/i_changed_my_mi.html -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Need a compelling argument to use Django instead of Rails

Steve Holden wrote: > I wouldn't waste your time. "A man convinced against his will is of the > same opinion still", and they already know they aren't interested in > Python. There are probably many other matters about which they are > uninformed and equally determined. Well the thing is that I ha

Re: Need a compelling argument to use Django instead of Rails

Ray wrote: > I just moved to another company that's mainly a Java/.NET shop. I was > happy to find out that there's a movement from the grassroot to try to > convince the boss to use a dynamic language for our development! > > Two of the senior developers, however, are already rooting for Ruby on

Need a compelling argument to use Django instead of Rails

I just moved to another company that's mainly a Java/.NET shop. I was happy to find out that there's a movement from the grassroot to try to convince the boss to use a dynamic language for our development! Two of the senior developers, however, are already rooting for Ruby on Rails--although they