On 30/03/2015 02:22, Ben Finney wrote:
Paul Rubin no.email@nospam.invalid writes:
He reported hitting more snags than some of us might expect purely
from the Python 3 propaganda (oh, just run the 2to3 utility and it
does everything for you).
Propaganda?
Are you referring to the official
On Sun, 29 Mar 2015 11:57:54 -0700, John Nagle wrote:
The Python 2 module fcgi is gone in Python 3.
Was this part of the python standard library, or was it a third party
library? I can only find cgi documentation https://docs.python.org/2/
library/cgi.html in the python 2 core documentation,
On 3/29/2015 7:11 PM, John Nagle wrote:
Meanwhile, I've found two more variants on flup
https://pypi.python.org/pypi/flipflop
https://pypi.python.org/pypi/flup6
All of these are descended from the original flup code base.
PyPi also has
fcgi-python (Python 2.6,
On Mon, 30 Mar 2015 15:47:23 +1100, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 3:35 PM, Paul Rubin no.email@nospam.invalid
wrote:
2b. John, thank you for describing your experience and making the
community's picture of the current overall state of Python 3 more
accurate. It was
John Nagle na...@animats.com writes:
That's part of the problem of having all those forks - now
each bug has to be fixed in each fork.
Agreed, there is too much focus on developing everything in isolation,
too little focus on getting different libraries working together.
After all this, the
On 3/30/2015 4:07 PM, John Nagle wrote:
After all this, the production system is now running entirely
on Python 3.
I am really glad to read this. Aside from a bit of hyperbole, I
appreciate the report of successes and difficulties. I also understand
better that 'Python 3' means something
Ben Finney ben+pyt...@benfinney.id.au writes:
Then you're not in a position to defend the claim. I'm addressing my
critical inquiry to the person who made the claim that they “get screwed
by Python 3”.
I'd say that the screw was expecting the migration to be easier than it
actually was. This
Paul Rubin no.email@nospam.invalid writes:
I don't know that I'd say that the language or ecosystem is
responsible.
Then you're not in a position to defend the claim. I'm addressing my
critical inquiry to the person who made the claim that they “get screwed
by Python 3”.
--
\ “Fox News
Paul Rubin no.email@nospam.invalid writes:
Ben Finney ben+pyt...@benfinney.id.au writes:
Why are you discussing it as though Python 3 is at fault? What do you
expect to change *about Python 3* that would address the perceived
problem? Whose responsibility is it to do that?
Those
On Monday, March 30, 2015 at 8:37:13 AM UTC+5:30, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 1:51 PM, Paul Rubin wrote:
One way is take reports like John's seriously and receive them
with thanks, instead of attacking the messenger.
If a messenger wants to be thanked, he should start by
Rustom Mody rustompm...@gmail.com writes:
On a more serious note you can (and IMHO should) orthogonalize:
1. John I dont appreciate your tone
2. John thank your for the bug-report
Fair enough, but I'd split #2 into
2a. John, thank you for the bug report describing specific problems we
can
On 03/29/2015 09:30 PM, Michael Torrie wrote:
What does this have to do with Python itself? I'm not completely sure,
but maybe it's about the Python community. What's the way forward? I
have no idea. At the very least John is frustrated by the community's
lack of apparent interest in
Ben Finney ben+pyt...@benfinney.id.au writes:
Which doesn't address the assertion that this is somehow a special
responsibility of “Python 3”, which I asked critical questions about.
Python 3 in those sorts of contexts refers to the whole ecosystem
including the 3rd party libs. I don't know
Ben Finney ben+pyt...@benfinney.id.au writes:
Why are you discussing it as though Python 3 is at fault? What do you
expect to change *about Python 3* that would address the perceived
problem? Whose responsibility is it to do that?
Those questions seem unfair to me. Nagle posted an experience
On 3/29/2015 6:03 PM, Paul Rubin wrote:
Those questions seem unfair to me. Nagle posted an experience report
about a real-world project to migrate a Python 2 codebase to Python 3.
He reported hitting more snags than some of us might expect purely from
the Python 3 propaganda (oh, just run the
On 2015-03-29, John Nagle na...@animats.com wrote:
The Python 2 module fcgi is gone in Python 3.
The Python 3 documentation at
https://docs.python.org/3/howto/webservers.html
recommends flup and links here:
https://pypi.python.org/pypi/flup/1.0
That hasn't been updated since 2007, and
On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 1:51 PM, Paul Rubin no.email@nospam.invalid wrote:
One way is take reports like John's seriously and receive them
with thanks, instead of attacking the messenger.
If a messenger wants to be thanked, he should start by not attacking
the recipients. Respect goes both ways.
On 03/29/2015 04:58 PM, Ben Finney wrote:
You have provided none for your assertion that an unmaintained
third-party library is somehow a special failure of Python 3.
A language is only as good as its libraries, either the standard library
that ships with the language, or third-party libraries.
On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 3:35 PM, Paul Rubin no.email@nospam.invalid wrote:
2b. John, thank you for describing your experience and making the
community's picture of the current overall state of Python 3 more
accurate. It was apparently a bit too rosy before, and we should avoid
fostering
Chris Angelico ros...@gmail.com writes:
On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 1:51 PM, Paul Rubin no.email@nospam.invalid wrote:
One way is take reports like John's seriously and receive them
with thanks, instead of attacking the messenger.
Please note that, where John Nagle has made supportible
John Nagle na...@animats.com writes:
CPAN, the Perl module archive, has some curation and testing. PyPi
lacks that, which is how we end up with situations like this, where
there are 11 ways to do something, most of which don't work.
That is a valid criticism of PyPI, and more broadly of the
I agree with you.
Web programmers should use maintained libraries.
In web world, most common libraries maintained are support Python 3.
I (maintainer of PyMySQL and mysqlclient) uses Python 3 for daily job,
and use Python 2 only for test my libraries.
On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 12:50 PM, Carl
On Monday, March 30, 2015 at 10:05:37 AM UTC+5:30, Paul Rubin wrote:
2b. John, thank you for describing your experience and making the
community's picture of the current overall state of Python 3 more
accurate. It was apparently a bit too rosy before, and we should avoid
fostering unrealistic
On 2015.03.29 13:57, John Nagle wrote:
There's wsgiref, which looks more promising, but has a different
interface. That's not what the Python documentation recommends as
the first choice, but it's a standard module.
Oh?
These days, FastCGI is never used directly. Just like mod_python, it is
John Nagle na...@animats.com writes:
The Python 3 documentation at
https://docs.python.org/3/howto/webservers.html
recommends flup
I disagree. In a section where it describes FastCGI, it presents a tiny
example as a way to test the packages installed. The example happens to
use ‘flup’.
John Nagle na...@animats.com:
There's wsgiref, which looks more promising, but has a different
interface. That's not what the Python documentation recommends as the
first choice, but it's a standard module.
I keep thinking I'm almost done with Python 3 hell, but then I get
screwed by Python
On Mon, 30 Mar 2015 05:57 am, John Nagle wrote:
https://pypi.python.org/pypi/flup/1.0
That hasn't been updated since 2007, and the SVN repository linked there
is gone. The recommended version is abandoned.
Welcome to the Internet. Links die and documentation gets outdated. If only
things
On 3/29/2015 1:19 PM, John Nagle wrote:
On 3/29/2015 12:11 PM, Ben Finney wrote:
John Nagle na...@animats.com writes:
The Python 3 documentation at
https://docs.python.org/3/howto/webservers.html
recommends flup
I disagree. In a section where it describes FastCGI, it presents a tiny
On 29/03/2015 22:40, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
On Mon, 30 Mar 2015 05:57 am, John Nagle wrote:
https://pypi.python.org/pypi/flup/1.0
That hasn't been updated since 2007, and the SVN repository linked there
is gone. The recommended version is abandoned.
Welcome to the Internet. Links die and
John Nagle na...@animats.com writes:
(for some reason quoting himself extensively without further comment)
On 3/29/2015 1:19 PM, John Nagle wrote:
On 3/29/2015 12:11 PM, Ben Finney wrote:
John Nagle na...@animats.com writes:
The Python 3 documentation at
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