Re: Python Operating System

Richard Jones schrieb: > Diez B. Roggisch wrote: >> Python has no notion of pointers > > See: > > http://docs.python.org/lib/module-ctypes.html > > In particular: > > http://docs.python.org/lib/ctypes-pointers.html Certainly cool, yet not too helpful for writing an interrupt handler t

Re: Python Operating System???

jtauber schreef: > see http://cleese.sourceforge.net/ There is not much to see there, most of the wiki is filled with spam... -- JanC "Be strict when sending and tolerant when receiving." RFC 1958 - Architectural Principles of the Internet - section 3.9 -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listi

Re: Python Operating System???

> Huh? I'm just baffled why you think writing a scheduler in an OS is > harder than writing one in an application. You have some means of > doing a coroutine switch in one situation, and some means of doing a > hardware context switch in the other. Aside from that the methods are > about the sa

Re: Python Operating System???

"Roose" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Well, then of course you know I have to say: An OS does not run inside a > browser. There's a sentence I never thought I'd utter in my lifetime. > > So that is an irrelevant example, since it obviously isn't a task scheduler > in the context of this thread.

Re: Python Operating System???

"Paul Rubin" wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > "Roose" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > Are you actually going to answer any of my questions? Let's see > > this "JavaScript task scheduler" you have written! > > I wrote it at a company and can't release it. It ra

Re: Python Operating System???

Arich Chanachai wrote: Paul Rubin wrote: "Roose" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: What I really wonder about is the possibility of integrating Mono with a kernel and building upward (the "shell" if you will) using IronPython. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Python Operating System???

Roose wrote: ... > I was thinking that there would be a Lisp interpreter in a kernel, > which afaik doesn't exist. There's an implementation of scheme that runs as a kernel module in Linux - it's designed to allow people to experiment with exploring kernel data structures at run time, and other f

Re: Python Operating System???

Arich Chanachai <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > And I think Pypy is currently set up to compile Python > >into Pyrex and then run the Pyrex results through GCC. > > > But of course, who's going to argue that Pyrex produces "compiled > Python"? Pyrex produces compiled Python in the same sense th

Re: Python Operating System???

Paul Rubin wrote: Arich Chanachai <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Yes, compiled Lisp. There are Python compilers too.\ ??? You mean like Pyrex or some such? I wouldn't exactly call these "Python" compilers, as that kind of obscures some underlying (critical) facts. Also psyco. Directl

Re: Python Operating System???

"Roose" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Are you actually going to answer any of my questions? Let's see > this "JavaScript task scheduler" you have written! I wrote it at a company and can't release it. It ran inside a browser. There was nothing terribly amazing about it. Obviously the tasks it

Re: Python Operating System???

"Paul Rubin" wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > "Roose" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > I've written file systems in Python, and task schedulers in > > > Javascript, and they were fine for their purposes > > > > Uh, not to be rude, but what are you talking about

Re: Python Operating System???

Arich Chanachai <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > >Yes, compiled Lisp. There are Python compilers too.\ > > > ??? You mean like Pyrex or some such? I wouldn't exactly call these > "Python" compilers, as that kind of obscures some underlying > (critical) facts. Also psyco. And I think Pypy is curre

Re: Python Operating System???

Paul Rubin wrote: "Roose" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: ... Upon reading back in the thread I see that you mean compiled Lisp, no? I was thinking that there would be a Lisp interpreter in a kernel, which afaik doesn't exist. Yes, compiled Lisp. There are Python compilers too.\ ??? You m

Re: Python Operating System???

"Roose" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > I've written file systems in Python, and task schedulers in > > Javascript, and they were fine for their purposes > > Uh, not to be rude, but what are you talking about? If I'm not mistaken > Javascript is that scripting language that runs inside a browser,

Re: Python Operating System???

> I've written file systems in Python, and task schedulers in > Javascript, and they were fine for their purposes Uh, not to be rude, but what are you talking about? If I'm not mistaken Javascript is that scripting language that runs inside a browser, an application. How are you going to save an

Re: Python Operating System???

Paul Rubin wrote: ... OK, then give me an example of Lisp OS that runs on a PC. I would like to install it on my PC tomorrow. Or maybe my Mac. That was your whole point, originally, that since it could be done in Lisp, why not Python? Huh? That's a non-sequitur, nothing prevents you from r

Re: Python Operating System???

Roose wrote: It's a difference of degree, but an important difference. I haven't looked at Linux or Windows NT source, but my guess is the assembly used is just small functions for accessing special CPU instructions for atomicity, context switching, and the like. I KNOW they don't have huge a

Re: Python Operating System???

John Roth wrote: "jtauber" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] My experiment, Cleese, was making progress before I got distracted by other things. I should probably get back to it at some stage. As my ex-wife was fond of saying, "I wish you'd have told me it was impo

Re: Python Operating System???

"Roose" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > But are you really going to write a virtual memory system in Python? Are > you going to write a file system, and a task scheduler in Python? Are you > going to have people write device drivers in Python? Do you know how virtual memory systems, file systems,

Re: Python Operating System???

"Paul Rubin" wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > "Roose" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > My point was that you can't do a lot of hardware interface programming in > > pure Python -- there would be so much non-trivial code in C that it would be > > hard to call it a

Re: Python Operating System???

On Sat, 8 Jan 2005 21:29:47 -0600, "John Roth" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >"Bengt Richter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message >news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >> On Sat, 08 Jan 2005 12:47:52 -0500, Peter Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> wrote: >> >>>Paul Rubin wrote: When Unix was first written, pe

Re: Python Operating System???

"Roose" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > My point was that you can't do a lot of hardware interface programming in > pure Python -- there would be so much non-trivial code in C that it would be > hard to call it a Python OS. Why do you say that? Is the same thing not true of C, where you need some a

Re: Python Operating System???

OK I've heard of that. But the original poster didn't ask to make a Python machine and then a Python OS. My point was that you can't do a lot of hardware interface programming in pure Python -- there would be so much non-trivial code in C that it would be hard to call it a Python OS. So this bas

Re: Python Operating System???

"jtauber" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] My experiment, Cleese, was making progress before I got distracted by other things. The approach was a micro-kernel in C made up of the CPython bytecode interpreter with the file-related calls to libc ripped out and some bare-me

Re: Python Operating System???

"Bengt Richter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Sat, 08 Jan 2005 12:47:52 -0500, Peter Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Paul Rubin wrote: When Unix was first written, people thought implementing an OS in C was ludicrous. Everyone knew OS's had to be written in as

Re: Python Operating System???

On Sat, 08 Jan 2005 12:47:52 -0500, Peter Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >Paul Rubin wrote: >> When Unix was first written, people thought implementing an OS in C >> was ludicrous. Everyone knew OS's had to be written in assembler. > >Actually, when Unix was first written that belief was entir

Re: Python Operating System???

Paul Rubin: > Lately there are people trying to program PC's to > simulate the Lisp hardware and to get the Lisp Machine software > released (now that the commercial market for it has long since dried > up). However, both of those projects have a ways to go. There's a video of someone demoing how

Re: Python Operating System???

On Sat, 08 Jan 2005 08:28:12 GMT, "Roose" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >I am not trying to be insulting... but unless someone would like to educate >me otherwise, the idea of an OS written in Python is almost ludicrous. As I >said, I think you might mean an OS SHELL, which would be a reasonable >(a

Re: Python Operating System???

"Roose" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > Is an OS written in Lisp also ludicrous? Because it's been done. > > Can you point me to this? I'd like to see how "truly" Lisp it is. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lisp_machine > My first guess would be -- not very. And I'd like to install it on my PC.

Re: Python Operating System???

My experiment, Cleese, was making progress before I got distracted by other things. The approach was a micro-kernel in C made up of the CPython bytecode interpreter with the file-related calls to libc ripped out and some bare-metal port read/writes and memory operations exposed to Python as built-

Re: Python Operating System???

Well can you describe what kind of things you want to do exactly? My guess is you are not out to develop a new algorithm for virtual memory or task scheduling. There are many parts to an OS shell. An example is the command line, i.e. bash and the like in Unix, and cmd.exe in Windows. In Windows

Re: Python Operating System???

> Is an OS written in Lisp also ludicrous? Because it's been done. Can you point me to this? I'd like to see how "truly" Lisp it is. My first guess would be -- not very. And I'd like to install it on my PC. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Python Operating System???

Peter Hansen wrote: Paul Rubin wrote: When Unix was first written, people thought implementing an OS in C was ludicrous. Everyone knew OS's had to be written in assembler. Actually, when Unix was first written that belief was entirely correct, and OSes *did* have to be written in assembler. *nods

Re: Python Operating System???

Paul Rubin wrote: When Unix was first written, people thought implementing an OS in C was ludicrous. Everyone knew OS's had to be written in assembler. Actually, when Unix was first written that belief was entirely correct, and OSes *did* have to be written in assembler. That is, pure C did not ha

Re: Python Operating System???

So how would I make an OS Shell? -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Python Operating System???

"Roose" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > An OS is NOT an application. It is a completely different kind of program. > Do you guys understand the difference between user and kernel mode? Do you > know what address spaces and hardware interrupts are? Python is not > equipped to handle these things.

Re: Python Operating System???

> But I thought Python was an all-purpose language. After all, OS's > have been written in Lisp before too. It is a general purpose APPLICATION language. I am surprised that this hasn't been mentioned on this thread. An OS is NOT an application. It is a completely different kind of program. D

Re: Python Operating System???

"Michael Hobbs" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > David Brown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hello. I recently came across a free operating system called Unununium (or > > something like that) and it was developed in Python and Assembly. > > > > Now, I have been looking

Re: Python Operating System???

Paul Rubin wrote: Arich Chanachai <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: But I thought Python was an all-purpose language. After all, OS's have been written in Lisp before too. Pure Lisp? Or a Lisp/C/Asm combo? Lisp has a compiled flavor by the way. Compi

Re: Python Operating System???

Arich Chanachai <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > >But I thought Python was an all-purpose language. After all, OS's > >have been written in Lisp before too. > > > Pure Lisp? Or a Lisp/C/Asm combo? Lisp has a compiled flavor by the way. Compiled flavor? Lisp has been compiled since the 1950's.

Re: Python Operating System???

Paul Rubin wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Michael Hobbs) writes: The problem when using Python instead of C for OS development is that C was *specifically designed* to create an OS, while Python was designed for completely different purposes. If you want to write an OS, it would be wise to use a lang

Re: Python Operating System???

On Fri, 07 Jan 2005 16:34:48 -, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Michael Hobbs) wrote: >David Brown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Hello. I recently came across a free operating system called Unununium (or >> something like that) and it was developed in Python and Assembly. >> >> Now, I have been looking fo

Re: Python Operating System???

[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Michael Hobbs) writes: > The problem when using Python instead of C for OS development is that > C was *specifically designed* to create an OS, while Python was designed > for completely different purposes. If you want to write an OS, it would > be wise to use a language that is

Re: Python Operating System???

David Brown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hello. I recently came across a free operating system called Unununium (or > something like that) and it was developed in Python and Assembly. > > Now, I have been looking for a way to make an operating system for a long > long time and the only possibiliti

Re: Python Operating System???

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Arich Chanachai <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes think). Or what about D? Digital Mars have a D compiler. http://www.digitalmars.com Stephen -- Stephen Kellett Object Media Limitedhttp://www.objmedia.demon.co.uk RSI Information:http://www.objmedia.demon.co.uk

Re: Python Operating System???

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Christopher Koppler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes Still, Java feels like C++ done right, while being more wrong >:-[ Couldn't disagree more. Just about anything you want to do that is low-level, is impossible in Java. Anyway this is off-topic. Stephen -- Stephen Kell

Re: Python Operating System???

Arich Chanachai <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > He should just build around a linux core or use OS kit (if he is > serious/determined). There's Ubuntu Linux, a Debian-based distro with commercial backing and a regular release schedule. One of the neat things about Ubuntu is that Python use is encou

Re: Python Operating System???

"David Brown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Hello. I recently came across a free operating system called Unununium (or something like that) and it was developed in Python and Assembly. Now, I have been looking for a way to make an operating system for a long long time

Re: Python Operating System???

Roose wrote: What exactly do you mean by an operating system? If you don't want to program in C/C++ then you're going to have a hard time. I don't want to be too discouraging, but with that attitude I doubt you would get very far. Indeed, this is very true. It sounds like you want to make more o

Re: Python Operating System???

Carl Banks wrote: Arich Chanachai wrote: But then again, if you don't like C++, you probably won't like Java. They can be very different languages, but in my experience, the reasons why one does not like C++ is usually due to a quality/flaw t

Re: Python Operating System???

Fuzzyman wrote: There is/was a project (Peter Hansen ?) to produce a pure python file system. that could be an interesting component. Good memory... uh, sort of. :-) It was probably me you're thinking of, but the point of the project was solely a "virtual" file system, to be used exclusively as a

Re: Python Operating System???

What exactly do you mean by an operating system? If you don't want to program in C/C++ then you're going to have a hard time. I don't want to be too discouraging, but with that attitude I doubt you would get very far. It sounds like you want to make more of an OS shell -- no? You can implement a

Re: Python Operating System???

On Thu, 06 Jan 2005 16:12:54 -0800, Carl Banks wrote: > Arich Chanachai wrote: >> But >> then again, if you don't like C++, you probably won't like Java. > They >> can be very different languages, but in my experience, the reasons > why >> one does not like C++ is usually due to a quality/flaw tha

Re: Python Operating System???

Arich Chanachai wrote: > But > then again, if you don't like C++, you probably won't like Java. They > can be very different languages, but in my experience, the reasons why > one does not like C++ is usually due to a quality/flaw that can also be > found in Java. Oh, brother. The Zen of Python s

Re: Python Operating System???

The bootloader would have to be a 'python-core'. Ideally a fast implementation of just the python syntax and language features. Now *that* would be an excellent basis for a restricted mode python interpreter - which could make 'python applets' closer to a reality. It would also make python for embe

Re: Python Operating System???

David Brown wrote: Hello. I recently came across a free operating system called Unununium (or something like that) and it was developed in Python and Assembly. Now, I have been looking for a way to make an operating system for a long long time and the only possibilities I could find were C++ and as

Re: Python Operating System???

David Brown wrote: Hello. I recently came across a free operating system called Unununium (or something like that) and it was developed in Python and Assembly. Now, I have been looking for a way to make an operating system for a long long time and the only possibilities I could find were C++ and as