Carl J. Van Arsdall wrote:
Steve Holden wrote:
[snip]
Are you using memory with built-in error detection and correction?
You mean in the hardware? I'm not really sure, I'd assume so but is
there any way I can check on this? If the hardware isn't doing that, is
there anything I can
Aahz wrote:
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED],
Carl J. Van Arsdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
My point is that an app that dies only once every few months under load
is actually pretty damn stable! That is not the kind of problem that
you are likely to stimulate.
This has all been so vague.
Steve Holden wrote:
[snip]
Are you using memory with built-in error detection and correction?
You mean in the hardware? I'm not really sure, I'd assume so but is
there any way I can check on this? If the hardware isn't doing that, is
there anything I can do with my software to offer
John Nagle wrote:
Aahz wrote:
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED],
Carl J. Van Arsdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
My point is that an app that dies only once every few months under load
is actually pretty damn stable! That is not the kind of problem that
you are likely to stimulate.
Hendrik van Rooyen wrote:
[snip]
could definitely do more of them. The thing will be
When I read this - I thought - probably your stuff is working
perfectly - on your test cases - you could try to send it some
random data and to see what happens - seeing as you have a test
server,
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED],
Carl J. Van Arsdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Aahz wrote:
My response is that you're asking the wrong questions here. Our database
server locked up hard Sunday morning, and we still have no idea why (the
machine itself, not just the database app). I think it's
Carl J. Van Arsdall wrote:
Aahz wrote:
[snip]
My response is that you're asking the wrong questions here. Our database
server locked up hard Sunday morning, and we still have no idea why (the
machine itself, not just the database app). I think it's more important
to focus on whether you
Carl J. Van Arsdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hendrik van Rooyen wrote:
Carl J. Van Arsdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
8 ---
Yea, I do some of that too. I use that with conditional print
statements to stderr when i'm doing my validation
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED],
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
|
| What makes you think Paddy indicated he wouldn't try to solve the problem?
| Here's what he wrote:
|
| What I'm proposing is that if, for example, a process stops running
| three times in a year at roughly three to four months
On 26 Jan, 09:05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Nick Maclaren) wrote:
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED],[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:|
| What makes you think Paddy indicated he wouldn't try to solve the problem?
| Here's what he wrote:
|
| What I'm proposing is that if, for example, a process stops running
Hendrik van Rooyen wrote:
Carl J. Van Arsdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
[snip]
Are you 100% rock bottom gold plated guaranteed sure that there is
not something else that is also critical that you just haven't realised is?
100%? No, definitely not. I know myself, as I explore
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED],
Paddy [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
|
| Three to four months before `strange errors`? I'd spend some time
| correlating logs; not just for your program, but for everything running
| on the server. Then I'd expect to cut my losses and arrange to safely
| re-start the
On Jan 25, 9:26 am, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Nick Maclaren) wrote:
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED],Paddy [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:|
| Three to four months before `strange errors`? I'd spend some time
| correlating logs; not just for your program, but for everything running
| on the server. Then I'd
Aahz wrote:
[snip]
My response is that you're asking the wrong questions here. Our database
server locked up hard Sunday morning, and we still have no idea why (the
machine itself, not just the database app). I think it's more important
to focus on whether you have done all that is
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED],
Paddy [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
|
| | Three to four months before `strange errors`? I'd spend some time
| | correlating logs; not just for your program, but for everything running
| | on the server. Then I'd expect to cut my losses and arrange to safely
| |
On Jan 25, 7:36 pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Nick Maclaren) wrote:
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED],Paddy [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:|
| | Three to four months before `strange errors`? I'd spend some time
| | correlating logs; not just for your program, but for everything
running
| | on the server.
Paddy [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
No, you should think of the service that needs to be up. You seem to be
talking about how it can't be fixed rather than looking for ways to
keep things going.
But you're proposing cargo cult programming. There is no reason
whatsoever to expect that restarting
On Jan 25, 8:00 pm, Paul Rubin http://[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Paddy [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
No, you should think of the service that needs to be up. You seem to be
talking about how it can't be fixed rather than looking for ways to
keep things going.
But you're proposing cargo cult
Paddy [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
But you're proposing cargo cult programming.
i don't know that term.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_cult_programming
What I'm proposing is that if, for example, a process stops running
three times in a year at roughly three to four months intervals ,
and
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED],
Paddy [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
|
| No, you should think of the service that needs to be up. You seem to be
| talking about how it can't be fixed rather than looking for ways to
| keep things going. A little learning is fine but it can't
| theoretically be fixed is
Paul I dunno about Nick, I'm saying it's best to assume that it's
Paul Poisson and do whatever is necessary to diagnose and fix the bug,
Paul and that the voodoo measure you're proposing is not all that
Paul likely to help and it will take years to find out whether it helps
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
What makes you think Paddy indicated he wouldn't try to solve the problem?
Here's what he wrote:
What I'm proposing is that if, for example, a process stops running
three times in a year at roughly three to four months intervals , and it
should have
Carl J. Van Arsdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Right, I wasn't coming here to get someone to debug my app, I'm just
looking for ideas. I constantly am trying to find new ways to improve
my software and new ways to reduce bugs, and when i get really stuck,
new ways to track bugs down. The
Hey everyone, I have a question about python threads. Before anyone
goes further, this is not a debate about threads vs. processes, just a
question.
With that, are python threads reliable? Or rather, are they safe? I've
had some strange errors in the past, I use threading.lock for my
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED],
Carl J. Van Arsdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
| Hey everyone, I have a question about python threads. Before anyone
| goes further, this is not a debate about threads vs. processes, just a
| question.
|
| With that, are python threads reliable? Or rather, are
On 24 Jan 2007 17:12:19 GMT, Nick Maclaren [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED],
Carl J. Van Arsdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
| Hey everyone, I have a question about python threads. Before anyone
| goes further, this is not a debate about threads vs. processes, just a
|
Carl Does anyone have any conclusive evidence that python threads/locks
Carl are safe or unsafe?
In my experience Python threads are generally safer than the programmers
that use them. ;-)
Skip
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Carl Does anyone have any conclusive evidence that python threads/locks
Carl are safe or unsafe?
In my experience Python threads are generally safer than the programmers
that use them. ;-)
Haha, yea, tell me about it. The whole GIL thing made me nervous
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED],
Chris Mellon [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
| |
| | Does anyone have any conclusive evidence that python threads/locks are
| | safe or unsafe?
|
| Unsafe. They are built on top of unsafe primitives (POSIX, Microsoft
| etc.) Python will shield you from some
On 24 Jan 2007 18:21:38 GMT, Nick Maclaren [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED],
Chris Mellon [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
| |
| | Does anyone have any conclusive evidence that python threads/locks are
| | safe or unsafe?
|
| Unsafe. They are built on top of unsafe
Chris Mellon wrote:
On 24 Jan 2007 18:21:38 GMT, Nick Maclaren [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
[snip]
I'm aware of the issues with the POSIX threading model. I still stand
by my statement - bringing up the problems with the provability of
correctness in the POSIX model amounts to FUD in
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED],
Carl J. Van Arsdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
| Chris Mellon wrote:
|
| Logic and programming errors in user code are far more likely to be
| the cause of random errors in a threaded program than theoretical
| (I've never come across a case in practice) issues
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED],
Carl J. Van Arsdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hey everyone, I have a question about python threads. Before anyone
goes further, this is not a debate about threads vs. processes, just a
question.
With that, are python threads reliable? Or rather, are they safe?
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED],
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Aahz) writes:
|
| My response is that you're asking the wrong questions here. Our database
| server locked up hard Sunday morning, and we still have no idea why (the
| machine itself, not just the database app). I think it's more important
| to
On Jan 24, 6:43 pm, Carl J. Van Arsdall [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
Chris Mellon wrote:
On 24 Jan 2007 18:21:38 GMT, Nick Maclaren [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
[snip]
I'm aware of the issues with the POSIX threading model. I still stand
by my statement - bringing up the problems with the
Carl J. Van Arsdall wrote:
Chris Mellon wrote:
On 24 Jan 2007 18:21:38 GMT, Nick Maclaren [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
[snip]
I'm aware of the issues with the POSIX threading model. I still stand
by my statement - bringing up the problems with the provability of
correctness in the
On Jan 24, 10:43 am, Carl J. Van Arsdall [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
Chris Mellon wrote:
On 24 Jan 2007 18:21:38 GMT, Nick Maclaren [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
[snip]
I'm aware of the issues with the POSIX threading model. I still stand
by my statement - bringing up the problems with the
On Jan 24, 10:43 am, Carl J. Van Arsdall [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
Chris Mellon wrote:
On 24 Jan 2007 18:21:38 GMT, Nick Maclaren [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
[snip]
I'm aware of the issues with the POSIX threading model. I still stand
by my statement - bringing up the problems with the
On Jan 24, 10:43 am, Carl J. Van Arsdall [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
Yea, typically I would think that. The problem I am seeing is
incredibly intermittent. Like a simple pyro server that gives me a
problem maybe every three or four months. Just something funky will
happen to the state of the
Klaas [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
POSIX issues aside, Python's threading model should be less susceptible
to memory-barrier problems that are possible in other languages (this
is due to the GIL).
But the GIL is not part of Python's threading model; it's just a
particular implementation
On Jan 24, 4:11 pm, Paul Rubin http://[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Klaas [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
POSIX issues aside, Python's threading model should be less susceptible
to memory-barrier problems that are possible in other languages (this
is due to the GIL).
But the GIL is not part of
Klaas [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
CPython is more that a particular implementation of python,
It's precisely a particular implementation of Python. Other
implementations include Jython, PyPy, and IronPython.
and the GIL is more than an artifact. It is a central tenet of
threaded python
and the GIL is more than an artifact. It is a central tenet of
threaded python programming.
If it's a central tenet of threaded python programming, why is it not
mentioned at all in the language or library manual? The threading
module documentation describes the right way to handle
On Jan 24, 5:18 pm, Paul Rubin http://[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Klaas [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
CPython is more that a particular implementation of python,
It's precisely a particular implementation of Python. Other
implementations include Jython, PyPy, and IronPython.
I did not deny that
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