On Jan 27, 12:23 pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
me:
> >go troll somewhere else (you obviously don't know anything about
> >assembler and don't want to learn anything about Python).
>
> >-- bjorn
>
> before you start mouthing off, maybe you should learn assembler.
I suppose I shouldn't feed the troll
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>Once a python py file is compiled into a pyc file, I can disassemble
>it into assembler. Assembler is nothing but codes, which are
>combinations of 1's and 0's. You can't read a pyc file in a hex
>editor, but you can read it in a di
On 2008-01-28, Bjoern Schliessmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Grant Edwards wrote:
>> No, it doesn't output corresponding machine code (that's what
>> some Java JIT implementations do, but I'm not aware of any
>> Python implementations that do that). The virtual machine
>> interpreter just does
Grant Edwards wrote:
> No, it doesn't output corresponding machine code (that's what
> some Java JIT implementations do, but I'm not aware of any
> Python implementations that do that). The virtual machine
> interpreter just does the action specified by the bytecode.
By "outputs corresponding mac
>> The script is essentially gone. I'd like to know how to read
>> the pyc files, but that's getting away from my point that
>> there is a link between python scripts and assembler. At this
>> point, I admit the code above is NOT assembler, but sooner or
>> later it will be converted to machine cod
Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven a écrit :
> -On [20080125 14:07], Bruno Desthuilliers ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
>> I'm surprised you've not been flamed to death by now - last time I
>> happened to write a pretty similar thing, I got a couple nut case
>> accusing me of being a liar trying to spread
Paul Boddie a écrit :
> On 25 Jan, 14:05, Bruno Desthuilliers [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Christian Heimes a écrit :
>>
>>> No, that is not correct. Python code is compiled to Python byte code and
>>> execute inside a virtual machine just like Java or C#.
>> I'm surprised you've not been flamed t
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Bjoern Schliessmann wrote:
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>> That's not the point, however. I'm trying to say that a
>>> processor cannot read a Python script, and since the Python
>>> interpreter as stored on disk is essentially an assembler file,
>>
>> It isn't; it's an
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> On Sat, 26 Jan 2008 14:47:50 +0100, Bjoern Schliessmann
>> This may be true, but I think it's not bad to assume that machine
>> language and assembler are "almost the same" in this context,
>> since the translation between them is non-ambiguous (It's
>> just "recoding";
This message got huge :/
Sorry for being so cryptic and unhelpful. I now believe that you're
incurring in a (quite deep) misunderstanding and wish to make things
clear for both of us :)
On Jan 27, 6:58 am, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> On Fri, 25 Jan 2008 17:44:07 -0800 (PST), ajaksu <[EMAIL PROTECT
On Jan 27, 10:23 pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >> >[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ ndisasm error.txt
> >> > 54push sp
> >> >0001 686973push word 0x7369
> >> >0004 206973and [bx+di+0x73],ch
> >> >0007 206E6Fand [bp+0x6f],ch
> >> >
Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2008-01-27, Marc 'BlackJack' Rintsch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> The Dunning-Kruger effect is the phenomenon wherein people who have
>> little knowledge think that they know more than others who have much
>> more knowledge.
>> [snip]
> [snip as well]
> ... must res
On 2008-01-27, Marc 'BlackJack' Rintsch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> I'm starting to wonder if it is possible for somebody to be
>> simultaneously so self-assured and so ignorant, or if we're
>> being trolled.
>
> I recently learned that this is called the Dunning-Kruger effect:
>
> The Dunnin
On 2008-01-27, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Whatever is typed in a Python script must be converted to
> binary code.
Python scripts _are_ in a binary code when the start out.
--
Grant Edwards grante Yow! What UNIVERSE is
On Sun, 27 Jan 2008 13:41:54 +, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Sun, 27 Jan 2008 10:55:20 +, over wrote:
>
>> I can understand people thinking I'm full of beans.
>
> Oh no, not full of beans. Full of something, but not beans.
>
> Everything you have written about assembly, machine code, com
On Sun, 27 Jan 2008 10:55:20 +, over wrote:
> I can understand people thinking I'm full of beans.
Oh no, not full of beans. Full of something, but not beans.
Everything you have written about assembly, machine code, compilers,
Linux, Python and so forth has been a confused mish-mash of hal
On Sun, 27 Jan 2008 10:55:20 +, over wrote:
> On Sat, 26 Jan 2008 14:47:50 +0100, Bjoern Schliessmann
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> The script is essentially gone. I'd like to know how to read the pyc
> files, but that's getting away from my point that there is a link
> between python scri
On Sun, 27 Jan 2008 11:23:20 +, over wrote:
> Don't fucking tell me about assembler, you asshole. I can read
> disassembled code in my sleep.
Yes you can read it, but obviously you don't understand it.
Ciao,
Marc 'BlackJack' Rintsch
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-
>
>> That's not the point, however. I'm trying to say that a processor
>> cannot read a Python script, and since the Python interpreter as
>> stored on disk is essentially an assembler file,
>
>It isn't; it's an executable.
I appreciated the intelligent response I received from you earlier,
now
On Sat, 26 Jan 2008 14:47:50 +0100, Bjoern Schliessmann
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
>> Intel processors can only process machine language[...] There's no
>> way for a processor to understand any higher level language, even
>> assembler, since it is written with hexadecim
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> hehe...which part am I kidding about? The explanation was for
> someone who thought python scripts were translated directly by the
> processor.
Who might this have been? Surely not Tim.
> I have already disassembled a pyc file as a binary file.
Have you? How's it lo
On Sun, 27 Jan 2008 08:58:01 +, over wrote:
> On Fri, 25 Jan 2008 17:44:07 -0800 (PST), ajaksu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>
>>On Jan 25, 11:36 pm, ajaksu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>> On Jan 25, 11:10 pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>[...]
>>
>>Gaah, is this what's going on?
>>
>>[EMAIL PROT
On Jan 27, 9:58 am, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> On Fri, 25 Jan 2008 17:44:07 -0800 (PST), ajaksu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> >On Jan 25, 11:36 pm, ajaksu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> On Jan 25, 11:10 pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >[...]
>
> >Gaah, is this what's going on?
>
> >[EMAIL PR
On Fri, 25 Jan 2008 17:44:07 -0800 (PST), ajaksu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>On Jan 25, 11:36 pm, ajaksu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> On Jan 25, 11:10 pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>[...]
>
>Gaah, is this what's going on?
>
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ cat error.txt
>This is not assembler...
>
>[EMAIL PR
On Fri, 25 Jan 2008 17:36:06 -0800 (PST), ajaksu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>On Jan 25, 11:10 pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>> Once a python py file is compiled into a pyc file, I can disassemble
>> it into assembler. Assembler is nothing but codes, which are
>> combinations of 1's and 0's. You can
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Intel processors can only process machine language[...] There's no
> way for a processor to understand any higher level language, even
> assembler, since it is written with hexadecimal codes and basic
> instructions like MOV, JMP, etc. The assembler compiler can
> conver
-On [20080125 14:07], Bruno Desthuilliers ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
>I'm surprised you've not been flamed to death by now - last time I
>happened to write a pretty similar thing, I got a couple nut case
>accusing me of being a liar trying to spread FUD about Java vs Python
>respective VMs inner
On Sat, 26 Jan 2008 03:09:05 +, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 08:49:20 +0100, Christian Heimes wrote:
>
>> It's even
>> possible to write code with Python assembly and compile the Python
>> assembly into byte code.
>
> Really? How do you do that?
>
> I thought it might be com
On 2008-01-26, ajaksu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Jan 25, 11:10 pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>> Once a python py file is compiled into a pyc file, I can disassemble
>> it into assembler. Assembler is nothing but codes, which are
>> combinations of 1's and 0's. You can't read a pyc file in a hex
On 2008-01-26, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Once a python py file is compiled into a pyc file, I can disassemble
> it into assembler.
No you can't. It's not native machine code. It's byte code
for a virtual machine.
> Assembler is nothing but codes, which are combinations of
Paul Boddie wrote:
> Well, it is important to make distinctions when people are wondering,
> "If Python is 'so slow' and yet everyone tells me that the way it is
> executed is 'just like Java', where does the difference in performance
> come from?" Your responses seemed to focus more on waving that
On Jan 25, 2008 9:09 PM, Steven D'Aprano
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 08:49:20 +0100, Christian Heimes wrote:
>
> > It's even
> > possible to write code with Python assembly and compile the Python
> > assembly into byte code.
>
> Really? How do you do that?
>
> I thought it migh
On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 08:49:20 +0100, Christian Heimes wrote:
> It's even
> possible to write code with Python assembly and compile the Python
> assembly into byte code.
Really? How do you do that?
I thought it might be compile(), but apparently not.
--
Steven
--
http://mail.python.org/mailma
On Jan 25, 11:36 pm, ajaksu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Jan 25, 11:10 pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
[...]
Gaah, is this what's going on?
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ cat error.txt
This is not assembler...
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ ndisasm error.txt
54push sp
0001 686973
On Jan 25, 11:10 pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Once a python py file is compiled into a pyc file, I can disassemble
> it into assembler. Assembler is nothing but codes, which are
> combinations of 1's and 0's. You can't read a pyc file in a hex
> editor, but you can read it in a disassembler. It d
On Thu, 24 Jan 2008 08:02:06 GMT, Tim Roberts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Bjoern Schliessmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>>Grant Edwards wrote:
>>
>>> Trying to find assembly language stuff to look at is futile.
>>> Python doesn't get compiled into assembly language.
>>
>>So, how do processors e
On 25 Jan, 14:05, Bruno Desthuilliers wrote:
> Christian Heimes a écrit :
>
> > No, that is not correct. Python code is compiled to Python byte code and
> > execute inside a virtual machine just like Java or C#.
>
> I'm surprised you've not been flamed to death by now - last time I
> happened to w
Christian Heimes a écrit :
> Wim Vander Schelden wrote:
>> Python modules and scripts are normally not even compiled, if they have
>> been,
>> its probably just the Python interpreter packaged with the scripts and
>> resources.
>
> No, that is not correct. Python code is compiled to Python byte co
Hallöchen!
Carl Banks writes:
> On Jan 24, 10:14 am, Bjoern Schliessmann [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> [...]
>>
>> But never mind, it depends on how you define "compile" in the
>> end.
>
> If you define "compile" as "interpret", yeah.
Well, it is just-in-time-compiled command by command. :o)
On Jan 24, 2008 9:14 AM, Bjoern Schliessmann
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Tim Roberts wrote:
> > Bjoern Schliessmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> >> So, how do processors execute Python scripts? :)
> >
> > Is that a rhetorical question?
>
> A little bit.
>
> > Grant is quite correct; Python scripts (in
On Jan 24, 10:14 am, Bjoern Schliessmann wrote:
> Tim Roberts wrote:
> > Grant is quite correct; Python scripts (in the canonical CPython)
> > are NOT compiled into assembly language. Scripts are compiled to
> > an intermediate language. Processors execute Python scripts when
> > the interpreter
Tim Roberts wrote:
> Bjoern Schliessmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> So, how do processors execute Python scripts? :)
>
> Is that a rhetorical question?
A little bit.
> Grant is quite correct; Python scripts (in the canonical CPython)
> are NOT compiled into assembly language. Scripts are compile
Bjoern Schliessmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Grant Edwards wrote:
>
>> Trying to find assembly language stuff to look at is futile.
>> Python doesn't get compiled into assembly language.
>
>So, how do processors execute Python scripts? :)
Is that a rhetorical question? Grant is quite correct;
Wim Vander Schelden wrote:
> I didn't know that python uses a VM, I thought it still used an
> interpretter! You
> learn something new everyday :)
still? I don't think Python ever used a different model. Most modern
languages are using an interpreted byte code approach:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wi
Grant Edwards wrote:
> Trying to find assembly language stuff to look at is futile.
> Python doesn't get compiled into assembly language.
So, how do processors execute Python scripts? :)
> If you want to learn Python, then read a book on Python.
ACK.
Regards,
Björn
--
BOFH excuse #198:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> My expertise, if any, is in assembler. I'm trying to understand
> Python scripts and modules by examining them after they have been
> disassembled in a Windows environment.
IMHO, that approach doesn't make sense to understand scripts or
modules (except if you have some
> My expertise, if any, is in assembler. I'm trying to understand Python
> scripts and modules by examining them after they have been
> disassembled in a Windows environment.
Maybe you could also profit from diassembling Pythons bytecode into
MNEmonics of the Python Virtual Machine ?
http://docs.
On 1/23/08, Christian Heimes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Wim Vander Schelden wrote:
> > Python modules and scripts are normally not even compiled, if they have
> > been,
> > its probably just the Python interpreter packaged with the scripts and
> > resources.
>
> No, that is not correct. Python
Wim Vander Schelden wrote:
> Python modules and scripts are normally not even compiled, if they have
> been,
> its probably just the Python interpreter packaged with the scripts and
> resources.
No, that is not correct. Python code is compiled to Python byte code and
execute inside a virtual machi
On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 04:58:02 +, Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2008-01-22, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> My expertise, if any, is in assembler. I'm trying to understand Python
>> scripts and modules by examining them after they have been disassembled
>> in a Windows environment
On 2008-01-22, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> My expertise, if any, is in assembler. I'm trying to
> understand Python scripts and modules by examining them after
> they have been disassembled in a Windows environment.
You can't dissassemble them, since they aren't ever converted
On Jan 22, 4:45 pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> My expertise, if any, is in assembler. I'm trying to understand Python
> scripts and modules by examining them after they have been
> disassembled in a Windows environment.
>
> I'm wondering if a Python symbols file is available. In the Windows
> envir
I second Wim's opinion. Learn python as a high level language, you won't regret
it.
About google, I'll give you a little gtip:
> > For example a Google for "python.pdb" returns +python
> > +pdb, so I get a ridiculous number of returns referring to the python
> > debugger. I have mentioned this
The reason you were finding a Python Debugger when looking for the PDB
files is because PDB is Python DeBugger! Also why would you be looking
for a PDB file if you can read the C source!
On Jan 22, 2008 11:55 PM, Wim Vander Schelden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Python modules and scripts are norma
Python modules and scripts are normally not even compiled, if they have
been,
its probably just the Python interpreter packaged with the scripts and
resources.
My advice is that if you want to learn Python, is that you just read a book
about
it or read only resources. Learning Python from assemble
On Jan 23, 9:24 am, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> My expertise, if any, is in assembler. I'm trying to understand Python
> scripts and modules by examining them after they have been
> disassembled in a Windows environment.
>
DB "Wrong way. Go back. Read the tutorials."
RET
--
http://mail.python.
My expertise, if any, is in assembler. I'm trying to understand Python
scripts and modules by examining them after they have been
disassembled in a Windows environment.
I'm wondering if a Python symbols file is available. In the Windows
environment, a symbol file normally has a PDB extension. It's
My expertise, if any, is in assembler. I'm trying to understand Python
scripts and modules by examining them after they have been
disassembled in a Windows environment.
I'm wondering if a Python symbols file is available. In the Windows
environment, a symbol file normally has a PDB extension. It's
My expertise, if any, is in assembler. I'm trying to understand Python
scripts and modules by examining them after they have been
disassembled in a Windows environment.
I'm wondering if a Python symbols file is available. In the Windows
environment, a symbol file normally has a PDB extension. It's
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