Re: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.

2010-02-23 Thread Anh Hai Trinh
On Feb 23, 1:03 pm, Alf P. Steinbach al...@start.no wrote: Uhm, Paganini... As I understand it he invented the destroy your instruments on stage. :-) Cheers, - Alf (off-topic) You probably meant Franz Liszt, who regularly broke piano strings. Paganini was also a rock-star virtuoso but he

Re: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.

2010-02-23 Thread Timothy N. Tsvetkov
On Feb 16, 10:41 pm, Andrej Mitrovic andrej.mitrov...@gmail.com wrote: On Feb 16, 7:38 pm, Casey Hawthorne caseyhhammer_t...@istar.ca wrote: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.

Re: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.

2010-02-22 Thread Jonathan Gardner
On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 10:22 AM, John Bokma j...@castleamber.com wrote: Jonathan Gardner jgard...@jonathangardner.net writes: On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 11:16 PM, Lie Ryan lie.1...@gmail.com wrote: Now, why don't we start a PEP to make python a fully-functional language then? Because people

Re: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.

2010-02-22 Thread Paul Rubin
Jonathan Gardner jgard...@jonathangardner.net writes: I won't deny that really smart people enjoy the challenge of programming in a functional style, and some even find it easier to work with. However, when it comes to readability and maintenance, I appreciate the statement-based programming

Re: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.

2010-02-22 Thread John Bokma
Jonathan Gardner jgard...@jonathangardner.net writes: On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 10:22 AM, John Bokma j...@castleamber.com wrote: Jonathan Gardner jgard...@jonathangardner.net writes: On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 11:16 PM, Lie Ryan lie.1...@gmail.com wrote: Now, why don't we start a PEP to make

Re: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.

2010-02-22 Thread Lawrence D'Oliveiro
In message 1ecc71bf-54ab-45e6-a38a-d1861f092...@v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com, sjdevn...@yahoo.com wrote: On Feb 20, 1:30 am, Lawrence D'Oliveiro l...@geek-central.gen.new_zealand wrote: In message op.u8at0suda8n...@gnudebst, Rhodri James wrote: In classic Pascal, a procedure was distinct

Re: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.

2010-02-22 Thread Paul Rubin
John Bokma j...@castleamber.com writes: In my class there where basically 2 groups of people: the ones who got functional programming and the ones who had a hard time with it. The latter group consisted mostly of people who had been programming in languages like C and Pascal for years; they

Re: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.

2010-02-22 Thread Lawrence D'Oliveiro
In message 3aa0205f-1e98-4376-92e4-607f96f13...@k19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com, Michael Sparks wrote: [1] This is perhaps more appropriate because '(a b c) is equivalent to (quote a b c), and quote a b c can be viewed as close to python's expression lambda: a b c You got to be

Re: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.

2010-02-22 Thread Jonathan Gardner
On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 12:31 PM, John Bokma j...@castleamber.com wrote: In my class there where basically 2 groups of people: the ones who got functional programming and the ones who had a hard time with it. The latter group consisted mostly of people who had been programming in languages

Re: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.

2010-02-22 Thread Steve Howell
On Feb 22, 8:35 pm, Jonathan Gardner jgard...@jonathangardner.net wrote: On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 12:31 PM, John Bokma j...@castleamber.com wrote: In my class there where basically 2 groups of people: the ones who got functional programming and the ones who had a hard time with it. The

Re: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.

2010-02-22 Thread Paul Rubin
Steve Howell showel...@yahoo.com writes: My gut instinct is that functional programming works well for lots of medium sized problems and it is worth learning. I think it's worth learning because it will make you a better programmer even if you never use it for anything beyond academic

Re: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.

2010-02-22 Thread Steve Howell
On Feb 22, 9:11 pm, Steve Howell showel...@yahoo.com wrote: On Feb 22, 8:35 pm, Jonathan Gardner jgard...@jonathangardner.net wrote: On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 12:31 PM, John Bokma j...@castleamber.com wrote: In my class there where basically 2 groups of people: the ones who got

Re: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.

2010-02-22 Thread Steve Howell
On Feb 22, 9:06 pm, Paul Rubin no.em...@nospam.invalid wrote: Steve Howell showel...@yahoo.com writes: My gut instinct is that functional programming works well for lots of medium sized problems and it is worth learning. I think it's worth learning because it will make you a better

Re: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.

2010-02-22 Thread Alf P. Steinbach
* Paul Rubin: Steve Howell showel...@yahoo.com writes: My gut instinct is that functional programming works well for lots of medium sized problems and it is worth learning. I think it's worth learning because it will make you a better programmer even if you never use it for anything beyond

Re: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.

2010-02-21 Thread John Bokma
Jonathan Gardner jgard...@jonathangardner.net writes: On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 11:16 PM, Lie Ryan lie.1...@gmail.com wrote: Now, why don't we start a PEP to make python a fully-functional language then? Because people don't think the same way that programs are written in functional

Re: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.

2010-02-20 Thread Jonathan Gardner
On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 11:16 PM, Lie Ryan lie.1...@gmail.com wrote: Now, why don't we start a PEP to make python a fully-functional language then? Because people don't think the same way that programs are written in functional languages. -- Jonathan Gardner jgard...@jonathangardner.net --

Re: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.

2010-02-20 Thread Chris Rebert
On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 11:17 PM, sjdevn...@yahoo.com sjdevn...@yahoo.com wrote: On Feb 20, 1:30 am, Lawrence D'Oliveiro l...@geek- central.gen.new_zealand wrote: If Python doesn’t distinguish between procedures and functions, why should it distinguish between statements and expressions?

Re: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.

2010-02-20 Thread Michael Sparks
On Feb 18, 4:15 pm, Steve Howell showel...@yahoo.com wrote: ...     def print_numbers()         [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6].map { |n|             [n * n, n * n * n]         }.reject { |square, cube|             square == 25 || cube == 64         }.map { |square, cube|             cube        

Re: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.

2010-02-20 Thread Steve Howell
On Feb 20, 6:13 am, Michael Sparks spark...@gmail.com wrote: On Feb 18, 4:15 pm, Steve Howell showel...@yahoo.com wrote: ...     def print_numbers()         [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6].map { |n|             [n * n, n * n * n]         }.reject { |square, cube|             square == 25 || cube

Re: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.

2010-02-19 Thread Anh Hai Trinh
On Feb 19, 1:44 pm, Steve Howell showel...@yahoo.com wrote: def coroutine(co):    def _inner(*args, **kwargs):        gen = co(*args, **kwargs)        gen.next()        return gen    return _inner def squares_and_cubes(lst, target):    for n in lst:        target.send((n * n, n

Re: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.

2010-02-19 Thread Roald de Vries
This pipeline idea has actually been implemented further, see http:// blog.onideas.ws/stream.py. from stream import map, filter, cut range(10) map(lambda x: [x**2, x**3]) filter(lambda t: t[0]! =25 and t[1]!=64) cut[1] list [0, 1, 8, 27, 216, 343, 512, 729] Wow, cool! Just to show that

Re: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.

2010-02-19 Thread Steve Howell
On Feb 19, 7:50 am, Roald de Vries r...@roalddevries.nl wrote: This pipeline idea has actually been implemented further, see http:// blog.onideas.ws/stream.py. from stream import map, filter, cut range(10) map(lambda x: [x**2, x**3]) filter(lambda t: t[0]! =25 and t[1]!=64) cut[1]

Re: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.

2010-02-19 Thread Steven D'Aprano
On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 08:32:53 -0800, Steve Howell wrote: The extra expressiveness of Ruby comes from the fact that you can add statements within the block, which I find useful sometimes just for debugging purposes: debug = true data = strange_dataset_from_third_party_code()

Re: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.

2010-02-19 Thread Steve Howell
On Feb 19, 9:30 am, Steven D'Aprano st...@remove-this- cybersource.com.au wrote: On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 08:32:53 -0800, Steve Howell wrote: The extra expressiveness of Ruby comes from the fact that you can add statements within the block, which I find useful sometimes just for debugging

Re: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.

2010-02-19 Thread Lie Ryan
On 02/19/10 14:57, Steve Howell wrote: In a more real world example, the intermediate results would be something like this: departments departments_in_new_york departments_in_new_york_not_on_bonus_cycle employees_in_departments_in_new_york_not_on_bonus_cycle

Re: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.

2010-02-19 Thread Lawrence D'Oliveiro
In message 87eikjcuzk@benfinney.id.au, Ben Finney wrote: Lawrence D'Oliveiro l...@geek-central.gen.new_zealand writes: In message hlhdsi$2p...@theodyn.ncf.ca, cjw wrote: Aren't lambda forms better described as function? Is this a function? lambda : None What about this?

Re: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.

2010-02-19 Thread Lawrence D'Oliveiro
In message 84166541-c10a-47b5-ae5b- b23202624...@q2g2000pre.googlegroups.com, Steve Howell wrote: Some people make the definition of function more restrictive--if it has side effects, it is not a function. Does changing the contents of CPU cache count as a side-effect? --

Re: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.

2010-02-19 Thread Lawrence D'Oliveiro
In message op.u8at0suda8n...@gnudebst, Rhodri James wrote: In classic Pascal, a procedure was distinct from a function in that it had no return value. The concept doesn't really apply in Python; there are no procedures in that sense, since if a function terminates without supplying an

Re: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.

2010-02-19 Thread Ben Finney
Lawrence D'Oliveiro l...@geek-central.gen.new_zealand writes: So there is no distinction between functions and procedures, then? In Python, no. -- \ “When we pray to God we must be seeking nothing — nothing.” | `\ —Saint Francis of Assisi |

Re: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.

2010-02-19 Thread Steve Holden
Ben Finney wrote: Lawrence D'Oliveiro l...@geek-central.gen.new_zealand writes: If Python doesn’t distinguish between procedures and functions, why should it distinguish between statements and expressions? I don't see the connection between those two predicates. Why does the former matter

Re: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.

2010-02-19 Thread sjdevn...@yahoo.com
On Feb 20, 1:28 am, Lawrence D'Oliveiro l...@geek- central.gen.new_zealand wrote: In message 87eikjcuzk@benfinney.id.au, Ben Finney wrote: Lawrence D'Oliveiro l...@geek-central.gen.new_zealand writes: In message hlhdsi$2p...@theodyn.ncf.ca, cjw wrote: Aren't lambda forms better

Re: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.

2010-02-19 Thread sjdevn...@yahoo.com
On Feb 20, 1:30 am, Lawrence D'Oliveiro l...@geek- central.gen.new_zealand wrote: In message op.u8at0suda8n...@gnudebst, Rhodri James wrote: In classic Pascal, a procedure was distinct from a function in that it had no return value.  The concept doesn't really apply in Python; there are no

Re: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.

2010-02-19 Thread Lie Ryan
On 02/20/10 17:30, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote: In message op.u8at0suda8n...@gnudebst, Rhodri James wrote: In classic Pascal, a procedure was distinct from a function in that it had no return value. The concept doesn't really apply in Python; there are no procedures in that sense, since if a

Re: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.

2010-02-19 Thread Lie Ryan
On 02/20/10 18:17, sjdevn...@yahoo.com wrote: On Feb 20, 1:30 am, Lawrence D'Oliveiro l...@geek- central.gen.new_zealand wrote: In message op.u8at0suda8n...@gnudebst, Rhodri James wrote: In classic Pascal, a procedure was distinct from a function in that it had no return value. The concept

Re: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.

2010-02-19 Thread Carl Banks
On Feb 19, 10:30 pm, Lawrence D'Oliveiro l...@geek- central.gen.new_zealand wrote: In message op.u8at0suda8n...@gnudebst, Rhodri James wrote: In classic Pascal, a procedure was distinct from a function in that it had no return value.  The concept doesn't really apply in Python; there are no

Re: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.

2010-02-19 Thread Carl Banks
On Feb 19, 11:12 pm, Steve Holden st...@holdenweb.com wrote: Ben Finney wrote: Lawrence D'Oliveiro l...@geek-central.gen.new_zealand writes: If Python doesn’t distinguish between procedures and functions, why should it distinguish between statements and expressions? I don't see the

Re: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.

2010-02-18 Thread Duncan Booth
Jonathan Gardner jgard...@jonathangardner.net wrote: On Feb 17, 12:02 am, Lawrence D'Oliveiro l...@geek- central.gen.new_zealand wrote: In message 8ca440b2-6094-4b35-80c5-81d000517...@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com, Jonathan Gardner wrote: I used to think anonymous functions (AKA blocks,

Re: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.

2010-02-18 Thread Steve Howell
On Feb 18, 1:23 am, Duncan Booth duncan.bo...@invalid.invalid wrote: Jonathan Gardner jgard...@jonathangardner.net wrote: On Feb 17, 12:02 am, Lawrence D'Oliveiro l...@geek- central.gen.new_zealand wrote: In message 8ca440b2-6094-4b35-80c5-81d000517...@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com,

Re: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.

2010-02-18 Thread Duncan Booth
Steve Howell showel...@yahoo.com wrote: If this is an argument against using anonymous functions, then it is a quadruple strawman. Shipping buggy code is a bad idea, even with named functions. I doubt very much whether I have ever shipped any bug-free code but even if it was fit for purpose

Re: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.

2010-02-18 Thread Steven D'Aprano
On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 06:15:20 -0800, Steve Howell wrote: On Feb 18, 1:23 am, Duncan Booth duncan.bo...@invalid.invalid wrote: Jonathan Gardner jgard...@jonathangardner.net wrote: On Feb 17, 12:02 am, Lawrence D'Oliveiro l...@geek- central.gen.new_zealand wrote: In message

Re: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.

2010-02-18 Thread Jonathan Gardner
On Feb 18, 8:15 am, Steve Howell showel...@yahoo.com wrote:     def print_numbers()         [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6].map { |n|             [n * n, n * n * n]         }.reject { |square, cube|             square == 25 || cube == 64         }.map { |square, cube|             cube         }.each {

Re: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.

2010-02-18 Thread Steven D'Aprano
On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 08:15:46 -0800, Steve Howell wrote: Just to be clear, I'm not saying it's unforgivable to occasionally ship software with bugs. It happens. Occasionally? Oh, if only. I would say that there probably isn't a non-trivial application in the world that is entirely bug-free.

Re: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.

2010-02-18 Thread sjdevn...@yahoo.com
On Feb 18, 11:15 am, Steve Howell showel...@yahoo.com wrote:     def print_numbers()         [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6].map { |n|             [n * n, n * n * n]         }.reject { |square, cube|             square == 25 || cube == 64         }.map { |square, cube|             cube         }.each {

Re: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.

2010-02-18 Thread John Bokma
Jonathan Gardner jgard...@jonathangardner.net writes: On Feb 18, 8:15 am, Steve Howell showel...@yahoo.com wrote:     def print_numbers()         [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6].map { |n|             [n * n, n * n * n]         }.reject { |square, cube|             square == 25 || cube == 64        

Re: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.

2010-02-18 Thread John Bokma
John Bokma j...@castleamber.com writes: Jonathan Gardner jgard...@jonathangardner.net writes: On Feb 18, 8:15 am, Steve Howell showel...@yahoo.com wrote:     def print_numbers()         [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6].map { |n|             [n * n, n * n * n]         }.reject { |square, cube|          

Re: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.

2010-02-18 Thread Jonathan Gardner
On Feb 18, 3:04 pm, sjdevn...@yahoo.com sjdevn...@yahoo.com wrote: You could do it without intermediate names or lambdas in Python as: def print_numbers():     for i in [ cube for (square, cube) in                          [(n*n, n*n*n) for n in [1,2,3,4,5,6]]                if square!=25

Re: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.

2010-02-18 Thread Steve Howell
On Feb 18, 3:00 pm, Steven D'Aprano st...@remove-this- cybersource.com.au wrote: [...] You wouldn't name your functions: f01, f02, f03, f04, ... f99 Exactly. (say), unless you were trying to deliberately obfuscate your code. Anonymous functions are even more obfuscated than that. You can

Re: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.

2010-02-18 Thread Steve Holden
Steven D'Aprano wrote: On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 06:15:20 -0800, Steve Howell wrote: [...] There really ought to be a special level of Hell for people who misuse strawman to mean a weak or invalid argument instead of what it actually means, which is a weak or invalid argument NOT HELD by your

Re: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.

2010-02-18 Thread Steve Howell
On Feb 18, 3:04 pm, sjdevn...@yahoo.com sjdevn...@yahoo.com wrote: On Feb 18, 11:15 am, Steve Howell showel...@yahoo.com wrote:     def print_numbers()         [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6].map { |n|             [n * n, n * n * n]         }.reject { |square, cube|             square == 25 || cube

Re: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.

2010-02-18 Thread Paul Rubin
Steve Howell showel...@yahoo.com writes: But frankly, although there's no reason that you _have_ to name the content at each step, I find it a lot more readable if you do: def print_numbers():     tuples = [(n*n, n*n*n) for n in (1,2,3,4,5,6)]     filtered = [ cube for (square, cube) in

Re: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.

2010-02-18 Thread sjdevn...@yahoo.com
On Feb 18, 10:58 pm, Paul Rubin no.em...@nospam.invalid wrote: Steve Howell showel...@yahoo.com writes: But frankly, although there's no reason that you _have_ to name the content at each step, I find it a lot more readable if you do: def print_numbers():     tuples = [(n*n, n*n*n) for n

Re: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.

2010-02-18 Thread Steve Howell
On Feb 18, 2:49 pm, Jonathan Gardner jgard...@jonathangardner.net wrote: On Feb 18, 8:15 am, Steve Howell showel...@yahoo.com wrote:     def print_numbers()         [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6].map { |n|             [n * n, n * n * n]         }.reject { |square, cube|             square == 25

Re: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.

2010-02-18 Thread Steve Howell
On Feb 18, 7:58 pm, Paul Rubin no.em...@nospam.invalid wrote: Steve Howell showel...@yahoo.com writes: But frankly, although there's no reason that you _have_ to name the content at each step, I find it a lot more readable if you do: def print_numbers():     tuples = [(n*n, n*n*n) for n

Re: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.

2010-02-18 Thread Steve Howell
On Feb 18, 8:27 pm, sjdevn...@yahoo.com sjdevn...@yahoo.com wrote: On Feb 18, 10:58 pm, Paul Rubin no.em...@nospam.invalid wrote: Steve Howell showel...@yahoo.com writes: But frankly, although there's no reason that you _have_ to name the content at each step, I find it a lot more

Re: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.

2010-02-18 Thread Kurt Smith
On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 10:46 PM, Steve Howell showel...@yahoo.com wrote: On Feb 18, 2:49 pm, Jonathan Gardner jgard...@jonathangardner.net wrote: On Feb 18, 8:15 am, Steve Howell showel...@yahoo.com wrote:     def print_numbers()         [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6].map { |n|             [n *

Re: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.

2010-02-18 Thread Steve Howell
On Feb 18, 7:58 pm, Paul Rubin no.em...@nospam.invalid wrote: Steve Howell showel...@yahoo.com writes: But frankly, although there's no reason that you _have_ to name the content at each step, I find it a lot more readable if you do: def print_numbers():     tuples = [(n*n, n*n*n) for n

Re: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.

2010-02-18 Thread Paul Rubin
Steve Howell showel...@yahoo.com writes: http://haskell.org/ghc/docs/6.10.4/html/users_guide/syntax-extns.html... might be of interest.  Maybe Ruby and/or Python could grow something similar. Can you elaborate? List comprehensions are a Python feature you're probably familiar with, and I think

Re: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.

2010-02-18 Thread Steven D'Aprano
On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 22:48:21 -0500, Steve Holden wrote: Next week: Lesson 2 - Ad Hominem Attacks I wouldn't pay any attention to Steve, all Stevens are notorious liars. -- Steven -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.

2010-02-18 Thread Gregory Ewing
Steve Howell wrote: Python may not support the broadest notion of anonymous functions, but it definitely has anonymous blocks. You can write this in Python: for i in range(10): print i print i * i print i * i * i There's a clear difference between this and a Ruby

Re: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.

2010-02-18 Thread Steven D'Aprano
On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 19:57:35 -0800, Steve Howell wrote: The names you give to the intermediate results here are terse--tuples and filtered--so your code reads nicely. In a more real world example, the intermediate results would be something like this: departments

Re: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.

2010-02-18 Thread Steve Howell
On Feb 18, 9:41 pm, Steven D'Aprano st...@remove-this- cybersource.com.au wrote: On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 22:48:21 -0500, Steve Holden wrote: Next week: Lesson 2 - Ad Hominem Attacks I wouldn't pay any attention to Steve, all Stevens are notorious liars. -- Steven Especially when their last

Re: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.

2010-02-18 Thread Steven D'Aprano
On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 18:52:20 +1300, Gregory Ewing wrote: The Ruby approach has the advantage of making it possible to implement user-defined control structures without requiring a macro facility. You can't do that in Python. [...] Also, most people who advocate adding some form of

Re: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.

2010-02-18 Thread Steve Howell
On Feb 18, 9:46 pm, Steven D'Aprano st...@remove-this- cybersource.com.au wrote: On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 19:57:35 -0800, Steve Howell wrote: The names you give to the intermediate results here are terse--tuples and filtered--so your code reads nicely. In a more real world example, the

Re: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.

2010-02-18 Thread Steve Howell
On Feb 18, 9:37 pm, Kurt Smith kwmsm...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 10:46 PM, Steve Howell showel...@yahoo.com wrote: On Feb 18, 2:49 pm, Jonathan Gardner jgard...@jonathangardner.net wrote: On Feb 18, 8:15 am, Steve Howell showel...@yahoo.com wrote:     def print_numbers()

Re: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.

2010-02-18 Thread Steve Howell
On Feb 18, 9:52 pm, Gregory Ewing greg.ew...@canterbury.ac.nz wrote: Steve Howell wrote: Python may not support the broadest notion of anonymous functions, but it definitely has anonymous blocks.  You can write this in Python:     for i in range(10):         print i         print i * i

Re: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.

2010-02-17 Thread Lawrence D'Oliveiro
In message 60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed- f2ab2154c...@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com, Andrej Mitrovic wrote: Also, lambda's are expressions, not statements ... Is such a distinction Pythonic, or not? For example, does Python distinguish between functions and procedures? --

Re: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.

2010-02-17 Thread Lawrence D'Oliveiro
In message 8ca440b2-6094-4b35-80c5-81d000517...@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com, Jonathan Gardner wrote: I used to think anonymous functions (AKA blocks, etc...) would be a nice feature for Python. Then I looked at a stack trace from a different programming language with lots of anonymous

Re: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.

2010-02-17 Thread Bruno Desthuilliers
Aahz a écrit : In article 8ca440b2-6094-4b35-80c5-81d000517...@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com, Jonathan Gardner jgard...@jonathangardner.net wrote: I used to think anonymous functions (AKA blocks, etc...) would be a nice feature for Python. Then I looked at a stack trace from a different

Re: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.

2010-02-17 Thread John Bokma
Jonathan Gardner jgard...@jonathangardner.net writes: Then I looked at a stack trace from a different programming language with lots of anonymous functions. (I believe it was perl.) I became enlightened. If it was Perl [1], I doubt it. Because line numbers are reported, and if that doesn't

Re: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.

2010-02-17 Thread cjw
On 17-Feb-10 05:48 AM, Bruno Desthuilliers wrote: Lawrence D'Oliveiro a écrit : In message 60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed- f2ab2154c...@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com, Andrej Mitrovic wrote: Also, lambda's are expressions, not statements ... Is such a distinction Pythonic, or not? Python is (by

Re: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.

2010-02-17 Thread Terry Reedy
On 2/17/2010 1:51 PM, cjw wrote: On 17-Feb-10 05:48 AM, Bruno Desthuilliers wrote: Lawrence D'Oliveiro a écrit : In message 60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed- f2ab2154c...@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com, Andrej Mitrovic wrote: Also, lambda's are expressions, not statements ... Is such a distinction

Re: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.

2010-02-17 Thread Lawrence D'Oliveiro
In message hlhdsi$2p...@theodyn.ncf.ca, cjw wrote: Aren't lambda forms better described as function? Is this a function? lambda : None What about this? lambda : sys.stdout.write(hi there!\n) -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.

2010-02-17 Thread Terry Reedy
On 2/17/2010 5:46 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote: In messagehlhdsi$2p...@theodyn.ncf.ca, cjw wrote: Aren't lambda forms better described as function? Is this a function? lambda : None What about this? lambda : sys.stdout.write(hi there!\n) To repeat: Python lambda expressions

Re: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.

2010-02-17 Thread Ben Finney
Lawrence D'Oliveiro l...@geek-central.gen.new_zealand writes: In message hlhdsi$2p...@theodyn.ncf.ca, cjw wrote: Aren't lambda forms better described as function? Is this a function? lambda : None What about this? lambda : sys.stdout.write(hi there!\n) They are both lambda

Re: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.

2010-02-17 Thread Steven D'Aprano
On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 11:46:52 +1300, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote: In message hlhdsi$2p...@theodyn.ncf.ca, cjw wrote: Aren't lambda forms better described as function? Is this a function? lambda : None What about this? lambda : sys.stdout.write(hi there!\n) Of course they

Re: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.

2010-02-17 Thread Jonathan Gardner
On Feb 17, 10:39 am, John Bokma j...@castleamber.com wrote: Jonathan Gardner jgard...@jonathangardner.net writes: Then I looked at a stack trace from a different programming language with lots of anonymous functions. (I believe it was perl.) I became enlightened. If it was Perl [1], I

Re: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.

2010-02-17 Thread Jonathan Gardner
On Feb 17, 12:02 am, Lawrence D'Oliveiro l...@geek- central.gen.new_zealand wrote: In message 8ca440b2-6094-4b35-80c5-81d000517...@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com, Jonathan Gardner wrote: I used to think anonymous functions (AKA blocks, etc...) would be a nice feature for Python. Then I

Re: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.

2010-02-17 Thread Jonathan Gardner
On Feb 17, 12:02 am, Lawrence D'Oliveiro l...@geek- central.gen.new_zealand wrote: In message 60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed- f2ab2154c...@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com, Andrej Mitrovic wrote: Also, lambda's are expressions, not statements ... Is such a distinction Pythonic, or not? For example,

Re: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.

2010-02-17 Thread Steven D'Aprano
On Wed, 17 Feb 2010 12:39:30 -0600, John Bokma wrote: Jonathan Gardner jgard...@jonathangardner.net writes: Then I looked at a stack trace from a different programming language with lots of anonymous functions. (I believe it was perl.) I became enlightened. If it was Perl [1], I doubt

Re: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.

2010-02-17 Thread Rhodri James
On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 01:04:00 -, Jonathan Gardner jgard...@jonathangardner.net wrote: On Feb 17, 12:02 am, Lawrence D'Oliveiro l...@geek- central.gen.new_zealand wrote: In message 60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed- f2ab2154c...@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com, Andrej Mitrovic wrote: Also, lambda's

Re: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.

2010-02-17 Thread Steven D'Aprano
On Wed, 17 Feb 2010 17:04:00 -0800, Jonathan Gardner wrote: (What the heck is a procedure, anyway? Is this different from a subroutine, a method, or a block?) The name is used in Pascal, which probably means it originated from Fortran or Algol. A subroutine is a generic piece of code which

Re: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.

2010-02-17 Thread John Bokma
Steven D'Aprano ste...@remove.this.cybersource.com.au writes: On Wed, 17 Feb 2010 12:39:30 -0600, John Bokma wrote: [..] If it was Perl [1], I doubt it. Because line numbers are reported, and if that doesn't help you, you can annotate anonymous functions with a nick name using local

Re: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.

2010-02-17 Thread Steve Howell
On Feb 17, 5:39 pm, Steven D'Aprano ste...@remove.this.cybersource.com.au wrote: On Wed, 17 Feb 2010 17:04:00 -0800, Jonathan Gardner wrote: (What the heck is a procedure, anyway? Is this different from a subroutine, a method, or a block?) The name is used in Pascal, which probably means it

Re: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.

2010-02-17 Thread Steve Howell
On Feb 16, 4:19 pm, Jonathan Gardner jgard...@jonathangardner.net wrote: On Feb 16, 11:41 am, Andrej Mitrovic andrej.mitrov...@gmail.com wrote: On Feb 16, 7:38 pm, Casey Hawthorne caseyhhammer_t...@istar.ca wrote: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python to

Re: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.

2010-02-17 Thread Carl Banks
On Feb 17, 10:39 am, John Bokma j...@castleamber.com wrote: Jonathan Gardner jgard...@jonathangardner.net writes: Then I looked at a stack trace from a different programming language with lots of anonymous functions. (I believe it was perl.) I became enlightened. If it was Perl [1], I

Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.

2010-02-16 Thread Casey Hawthorne
Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility. http://blog.extracheese.org/2010/02/python-vs-ruby-a-battle-to-the-death.html -- Regards, Casey -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.

2010-02-16 Thread Andrej Mitrovic
On Feb 16, 7:38 pm, Casey Hawthorne caseyhhammer_t...@istar.ca wrote: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility. http://blog.extracheese.org/2010/02/python-vs-ruby-a-battle-to-the-de... -- Regards, Casey Gary's friend

Re: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.

2010-02-16 Thread Jonathan Gardner
On Feb 16, 11:41 am, Andrej Mitrovic andrej.mitrov...@gmail.com wrote: On Feb 16, 7:38 pm, Casey Hawthorne caseyhhammer_t...@istar.ca wrote: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.

Re: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.

2010-02-16 Thread Aahz
In article 8ca440b2-6094-4b35-80c5-81d000517...@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com, Jonathan Gardner jgard...@jonathangardner.net wrote: I used to think anonymous functions (AKA blocks, etc...) would be a nice feature for Python. Then I looked at a stack trace from a different programming language

Re: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.

2010-02-16 Thread David Cournapeau
On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 4:41 AM, Andrej Mitrovic andrej.mitrov...@gmail.com wrote: Gary's friend Geoffrey Grosenbach says in his blog post (which Gary linked to): Python has no comparable equivalent to Ruby’s do end block. Python lambdas are limited to one line and can’t contain statements