Re: Is duck-typing misnamed?

[breamoreboy]

On Monday, August 29, 2016 at 12:08:26 PM UTC+1, Ben Finney wrote:
> Michael Torrie writes:
> 
> > Umm no, she was actually a witch.  Which makes the scene even funnier.
> > "Fair caught," she says at the end.
> 
> She says [0] “It's a fair cop”, which is using the term “cop” to mean
> the arrest or sentence, asserting that it's justified.
> 
> Hence, the British term “copper”, meaning a police officer: the one who
> does the cop (the capture or arrest) for a crime.
> 

Also used in the Dead Bishop sketch.

Klaus: It's a fair cop, but society's to blame.

Detective: Agreed. We'll be charging them too. 

Kindest regards.

Mark Lawrence.
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Re: Is duck-typing misnamed?

[Ben Finney]

Michael Torrie  writes:

> Umm no, she was actually a witch.  Which makes the scene even funnier.
> "Fair caught," she says at the end.

She says [0] “It's a fair cop”, which is using the term “cop” to mean
the arrest or sentence, asserting that it's justified.

Hence, the British term “copper”, meaning a police officer: the one who
does the cop (the capture or arrest) for a crime.


has quotations showing usage, as does
.


[0] 

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  `\  else’s opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a |
_o__)   quotation.” —Oscar Wilde, _De Profundis_, 1897 |
Ben Finney

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Re: Is duck-typing misnamed?

[Steve D'Aprano]

On Sun, 28 Aug 2016 08:34 am, Terry Reedy wrote:

> On 8/26/2016 7:58 PM, ROGER GRAYDON CHRISTMAN wrote:
>> "If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck,... "
>>
>> so there is indeed precedence for this so-called 'duck typing'
>>
>>
>> but wouldn't it be more Pythonic to call this 'witch typing'?
>>
>> "How do you know she is a witch?"
>>
>> "She looks like one."
> 
> Given that people were once burned to death for 'looking like a witch'
> (or sounding or acting), and can still suffer socially for such reasons,
> this it not funny to me.  We should stick with ducks.

Black humour is still humour. And it is an important way of dealing with
distress, and of instituting social change.

Belief in the supernatural and superstition is on the rise again, including
witchcraft. If it were limited to just a few benighted and ignorant
migrants from Africa, that would be bad enough, but I see disturbing signs
that the Satanic Ritual panic from the 80s and 90s is on its way back. (Or
perhaps it never quite went away, just faded from the headlines.) Likewise
the anti-paedophile frenzy, where the mere (false) accusation of
paedophilia is enough to start a frenzy of abuse and even killing:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/10422771/How-wild-rumour-led-a-mob-to-murder-an-innocent-man.html

Black humour is a weapon against the ignorance and intolerance that feeds
hate crimes and witch hunts (whether legally sanctioned or not, whether
about literal witches or any other demonised subgroup). We can and should
take every opportunity to remind people of the absurdity of relying on
torture to gain confessions, and the abuses of this sort of single-minded,
hysterical moral panic. And humour is a most effective way to do so. Nobody
likes to be hectored and lectured as I'm lecturing you now *wink* but
turning it into a joke can get the point across.

We should not lose sight of the economic, political, racial reasons for
witch-hunts, but equally we should not forget that when a moral panic is in
full force, people behave absurdly, and the best antidote to absurd
behaviour is to take the mickey out of it.



-- 
Steve
“Cheer up,” they said, “things could be worse.” So I cheered up, and sure
enough, things got worse.

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Re: Is duck-typing misnamed?

[Michael Torrie]

On 08/27/2016 05:28 PM, ROGER GRAYDON CHRISTMAN wrote:
> They took a woman who originally, I think we might agree, was not a witch,

Umm no, she was actually a witch.  Which makes the scene even funnier.
"Fair caught," she says at the end.
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Re: Is duck-typing misnamed?

[Eric S. Johansson]

On 8/27/2016 7:28 PM, ROGER GRAYDON CHRISTMAN wrote:
> Your response is appreciated.   I just thought I'd comment a little more on 
> the
> script:
>
> Woman:  I'm not a witch! I'm not a witch!
>
> V:  ehh... but you are dressed like one.
>
> W:  They dressed me up like this!
>
> All: naah  no we didn't... no.
>
> W:  And this isn't my nose, it's a false one.
>
> (V lifts up carrot)
>
> V: Well?
>
> P1:  Well we did do the nose
>
> V: The nose?
>
> P1:  ...And the hat, but she is a witch!
>
>
> They took a woman who originally, I think we might agree, was not a witch,
> and they added features that were understood to be part of the protocol
> for witchiness.

not a witch??

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrzMhU_4m-g

start at 3:30

listen to what she says after they discover she weights as much as a duck.


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Re: Is duck-typing misnamed?

[Joe]

Am 28.08.2016 um 00:34 schrieb Terry Reedy:

On 8/26/2016 7:58 PM, ROGER GRAYDON CHRISTMAN wrote:

"If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck,... "

so there is indeed precedence for this so-called 'duck typing'


but wouldn't it be more Pythonic to call this 'witch typing'?

"How do you know she is a witch?"

"She looks like one."


Given that people were once burned to death for 'looking like a witch'
(or sounding or acting), and can still suffer socially for such reasons,
this it not funny to me.  We should stick with ducks.


Agree.
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Re: Is duck-typing misnamed?

[Ben Finney]

c...@zip.com.au writes:

> They want to burn her because she's supposedly a witch, but the
> scientific test was that she weighed as much as a duck. So I think
> your second example is also duck typing: functioning like a duck.

Excellent reasoning!

(Also, I agree that describing objects with “looks like a witch” brings
repressive social context, both historical and present-day, that should
not be encouraged. I'd prefer that the Python community refrain from
that.)

Let's stick to the term “duck typing”.

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_o__)  |
Ben Finney

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Re: Is duck-typing misnamed?

[ROGER GRAYDON CHRISTMAN]

Your response is appreciated.   I just thought I'd comment a little more on the
script:

Woman:  I'm not a witch! I'm not a witch!

V:  ehh... but you are dressed like one.

W:  They dressed me up like this!

All: naah  no we didn't... no.

W:  And this isn't my nose, it's a false one.

(V lifts up carrot)

V: Well?

P1:  Well we did do the nose

V: The nose?

P1:  ...And the hat, but she is a witch!


They took a woman who originally, I think we might agree, was not a witch,
and they added features that were understood to be part of the protocol
for witchiness.

I think this is very much like me defining methods __iter__ and __next__
and voila, I've turned something into an iterator by witch --  er.. duck-typing!

Perhaps she inherited her weight from her latent duckness.

Thoughts?

Roger Christman

On Sat, Aug 27, 2016 06:27 PM, python-list@python.org wrote:
>
On 26Aug2016 19:58, ROGER GRAYDON CHRISTMAN  wrote:
>>"If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck,... "
>>so there is indeed precedence for this so-called 'duck typing'
>>
>>but wouldn't it be more Pythonic to call this 'witch typing'?
>>"How do you know she is a witch?"
>>"She looks like one."
>>etc.
>>
>>I do grant that ultimately, the duck does come into play, since the witch
>>weighs the same as a duck.
>
>I disagree. They want to burn her because she's supposedly a witch, but the 
>scientific test was that she weighed as much as a duck. So I think your second 
>example is also duck typing: functioning like a duck.
>
>Cheers,
>Cameron Simpson 
>
>
>

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Re: Is duck-typing misnamed?

[Joel Goldstick]

On Sat, Aug 27, 2016 at 6:34 PM, Terry Reedy  wrote:
> On 8/26/2016 7:58 PM, ROGER GRAYDON CHRISTMAN wrote:
>>
>> "If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck,... "
>>
>> so there is indeed precedence for this so-called 'duck typing'
>>
>>
>> but wouldn't it be more Pythonic to call this 'witch typing'?
>>
>> "How do you know she is a witch?"
>>
>> "She looks like one."
>
>
> Given that people were once burned to death for 'looking like a witch' (or
> sounding or acting), and can still suffer socially for such reasons, this it
> not funny to me.  We should stick with ducks.
>
> --
> Terry Jan Reedy
>
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

which ducks?


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Re: Is duck-typing misnamed?

[cs]

On 26Aug2016 19:58, ROGER GRAYDON CHRISTMAN  wrote:

"If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck,... "
so there is indeed precedence for this so-called 'duck typing'

but wouldn't it be more Pythonic to call this 'witch typing'?
"How do you know she is a witch?"
"She looks like one."
etc.

I do grant that ultimately, the duck does come into play, since the witch
weighs the same as a duck.


I disagree. They want to burn her because she's supposedly a witch, but the 
scientific test was that she weighed as much as a duck. So I think your second 
example is also duck typing: functioning like a duck.


Cheers,
Cameron Simpson 
--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Is duck-typing misnamed?

[Terry Reedy]

On 8/26/2016 7:58 PM, ROGER GRAYDON CHRISTMAN wrote:

"If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck,... "

so there is indeed precedence for this so-called 'duck typing'


but wouldn't it be more Pythonic to call this 'witch typing'?

"How do you know she is a witch?"

"She looks like one."


Given that people were once burned to death for 'looking like a witch' 
(or sounding or acting), and can still suffer socially for such reasons, 
this it not funny to me.  We should stick with ducks.


--
Terry Jan Reedy

--
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Re: Is duck-typing misnamed?

[Larry Martell]

On Fri, Aug 26, 2016 at 7:58 PM, ROGER GRAYDON CHRISTMAN  wrote:
> "If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck,... "
>
> so there is indeed precedence for this so-called 'duck typing'
>
>
> but wouldn't it be more Pythonic to call this 'witch typing'?
>
> "How do you know she is a witch?"
>
> "She looks like one."
>
> etc.
>
>
> I do grant that ultimately, the duck does come into play, since the witch
> weighs the same as a duck.

Great idea, I love it. Now go and change your armor.
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Re: Is duck-typing misnamed?

[Ned Batchelder]

On Saturday, August 27, 2016 at 5:50:30 AM UTC-4, ROGER GRAYDON CHRISTMAN wrote:
> "If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck,... "   
> 
> so there is indeed precedence for this so-called 'duck typing'
> 
> 
> but wouldn't it be more Pythonic to call this 'witch typing'?
> 
> "How do you know she is a witch?"
> 
> "She looks like one."
> 
> etc.
> 
> 
> I do grant that ultimately, the duck does come into play, since the witch
> weighs the same as a duck.

+1 :)

--Ned.
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Re: Is duck-typing misnamed?

[breamoreboy]

This should go to Python ideas as it would involve a substantial change to the 
docs.

Kindest regards.

Mark Lawrence.
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Is duck-typing misnamed?

[ROGER GRAYDON CHRISTMAN]

"If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck,... "   

so there is indeed precedence for this so-called 'duck typing'


but wouldn't it be more Pythonic to call this 'witch typing'?

"How do you know she is a witch?"

"She looks like one."

etc.


I do grant that ultimately, the duck does come into play, since the witch
weighs the same as a duck.

Roger Christman
Electrical Engineering and Computer Science
Pennsylvania State University


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