Re: List spam
Javier nos...@nospam.com writes: You will lose a lot of people asking/answering interesting stuff, and maybe eventually the list will die. I don't think it would die, but the chances are greater that it would become insular and further disconnected from the Python community, and hence far less useful. Me (like many people with little free time) seldom post in blogs/forums/mailing lists where I need to register. +1 -- \ “Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does | `\ knowledge.” —Charles Darwin, _The Descent of Man_, 1871 | _o__) | Ben Finney -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: List spam
I find python group is filled with spam mails, is there any way to filter these mails before sending it to the group. I can't see this situation with similar user group, such as the jsr. George. On 20/08/2011 07:07, Ben Finney ben+pyt...@benfinney.id.au wrote: Javier nos...@nospam.com writes: You will lose a lot of people asking/answering interesting stuff, and maybe eventually the list will die. I don't think it would die, but the chances are greater that it would become insular and further disconnected from the Python community, and hence far less useful. Me (like many people with little free time) seldom post in blogs/forums/mailing lists where I need to register. +1 -- \ ³Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does | `\ knowledge.² Charles Darwin, _The Descent of Man_, 1871 | _o__) | Ben Finney -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: List spam
On Thursday, August 18, 2011 10:23:49 PM Steven D'Aprano did opine: gene heskett wrote: But I'd like to return the question. What's wrong with nntp? The sheer volume of traffic eats 99% of an ISP's bandwidth. I doubt that very much, particularly if the ISP drops the binary newsgroups. [...] It's not like you have to install a second Interweb tube just for bittorrent, or that bittorrent packets cost more than HTTP packets. Fer fecks sake, the ISP doesn't even have to run a bittorrent server! It's practically free money to the ISP, packets go in, packets go out, they don't have to do a bloody thing with them. Except pay for the bandwidth to get the bytes into their system. Now, an ISP might not have the bandwidth to supply all the needs of their customers, that's a separate issue. Yes it is, which is why Hughs has a bandwidth limit cap they lift in the middle of the night when overall traffic is zilch. The bird(s) only have so much bandwidth and it costs tens of millions to 'lay another fiber' when its 22,300 miles up. OTOH, they have to pay for that bandwidth 24/7, so if they can move the relatively few high traffic folks usage to 3-5 AM, they can service more people watching old black and white John Holmes clips at 9-11pm. ;-) But complaining that the problem is specifically because they use bittorrent, as if it would disappear if they changed to HTTP, is bogus. Agreed, that's 100% a red herring. Cheers, gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Q: How many mathematicians does it take to screw in a light bulb? A: One. He gives it to six Californians, thereby reducing the problem to the earlier joke. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: List spam
On Thursday, August 18, 2011 12:16:50 PM Jason Staudenmayer did opine: [...] I do know it is ironic that I forgot to stop the footer for the one reply. It's not my choice to add it but I was able to find a way around that work policy for list emails. I'm a strong opponent of dropping any email with a stupid footer spam. Jason I'm a strong proponent of dropping any email with a stupid footer spam. There, I fixed it for you. ;-) Sorry, couldn't resist, Jason. At nearly 77, I am a firm believer that one can grow old without growing up. ;p) Cheers, gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Renning's Maxim: Man is the highest animal. Man does the classifying. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: List spam
You will lose a lot of people asking/answering interesting stuff, and maybe eventually the list will die. Me (like many people with little free time) seldom post in blogs/forums/mailing lists where I need to register. gene heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote: That is asking the user to take considerable effort and resources to do that. What is wrong with the mailing list only approach? -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
List spam
I really like this list as part of my learning tools but the amount of spam that I've been getting from it is CRAZY. Doesn't anything get scanned before it sent to the list? Jason ..·º -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: List spam
On 18/08/2011 13:58, Jason Staudenmayer wrote: I really like this list as part of my learning tools but the amount of spam that I've been getting from it is CRAZY. Doesn't anything get scanned before it sent to the list? I haven't seen any significant quantity of spam on the list for ages. (The occasional one does get through although I can't remember the last). I always access it as a mailing list, and I seem to recall that the newsgroup feed isn't filtered the same way as the mailing list is. TJG -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: List spam
On Aug 18, 2011, at 8:58 AM, Jason Staudenmayer wrote: I really like this list as part of my learning tools but the amount of spam that I've been getting from it is CRAZY. Doesn't anything get scanned before it sent to the list? This has been discussed on the list a number of times before, so I'll refer you to the archives for details. Basically, the mailing list receives postings from Google Groups and vice versa. Most of the spam comes from Google Groups. If you add a mail filter that deletes anything with the Organization header set to http://groups.google.com;, you won't see much spam anymore. In my experience, you'll also miss a number of legitimate postings. HTH Philip -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
RE: List spam
On 18/08/2011 13:58, Jason Staudenmayer wrote: I really like this list as part of my learning tools but the amount of spam that I've been getting from it is CRAZY. Doesn't anything get scanned before it sent to the list? I haven't seen any significant quantity of spam on the list for ages. (The occasional one does get through although I can't remember the last). I always access it as a mailing list, and I seem to recall that the newsgroup feed isn't filtered the same way as the mailing list is. I've been getting more and more. Upon checking the header info the last hop is from the list server. Here's part of the header: Received: from (HELO mail.python.org) (82.94.164.166) by mail2.adventureaquarium.com with SMTP; 17 Aug 2011 23:53:17 - Received: from albatross.python.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.python.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3RfS705P3czN9Y for jas...@adventureaquarium.com; Thu, 18 Aug 2011 01:53:16 +0200 (CEST) I can deal with normal spam but this stuff I've gotten is all about rape. Jason Adventure Aquarium is America's Most Touchable Aquarium! Featuring the ALL NEW Stingray Beach Club Where you can touch and hand feed the gentle stingrays To buy and print your tickets at home visit www.AdventureAquarium.com ..·º..·`·.º..·`·.º..·`·.º ..·`·.º..·`·.º..·`·.º ..·º..·`·.º A Herschend Family Entertainment Company -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
RE: List spam
On Aug 18, 2011, at 8:58 AM, Jason Staudenmayer wrote: I really like this list as part of my learning tools but the amount of spam that I've been getting from it is CRAZY. Doesn't anything get scanned before it sent to the list? This has been discussed on the list a number of times before, so I'll refer you to the archives for details. Basically, the mailing list receives postings from Google Groups and vice versa. Most of the spam comes from Google Groups. If you add a mail filter that deletes anything with the Organization header set to http://groups.google.com;, you won't see much spam anymore. In my experience, you'll also miss a number of legitimate postings. Ahhh, that would explain all the google stuff in the headers. Thanks for the heads-up I'll look at changing my spamassassin scoring for those. Jason Adventure Aquarium is America's Most Touchable Aquarium! Featuring the ALL NEW Stingray Beach Club Where you can touch and hand feed the gentle stingrays To buy and print your tickets at home visit www.AdventureAquarium.com ..·º..·`·.º..·`·.º..·`·.º ..·`·.º..·`·.º..·`·.º ..·º..·`·.º A Herschend Family Entertainment Company -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: List spam
On Thursday, August 18, 2011 09:51:04 AM Philip Semanchuk did opine: On Aug 18, 2011, at 8:58 AM, Jason Staudenmayer wrote: I really like this list as part of my learning tools but the amount of spam that I've been getting from it is CRAZY. Doesn't anything get scanned before it sent to the list? This has been discussed on the list a number of times before, so I'll refer you to the archives for details. Basically, the mailing list receives postings from Google Groups and vice versa. Most of the spam comes from Google Groups. If you add a mail filter that deletes anything with the Organization header set to http://groups.google.com;, you won't see much spam anymore. In my experience, you'll also miss a number of legitimate postings. HTH Philip I am about to do just that, block groups.google.com. AFAIAC, if someone wants to contribute to this mailing list, they can damned well join THIS list if they want their posts to be read by the subscribers to this list. Google is not too big to block as I just told them while fwding that last bit of boilerplate to them at groups-abuse AT google dot com. Cheers, gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Such a fine first dream! But they laughed at me; they said I had made it up. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: List spam
On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 9:30 PM, Tim Golden m...@timgolden.me.uk wrote: On 18/08/2011 13:58, Jason Staudenmayer wrote: I really like this list as part of my learning tools but the amount of spam that I've been getting from it is CRAZY. Doesn't anything get scanned before it sent to the list? I haven't seen any significant quantity of spam on the list for ages. (The occasional one does get through although I can't remember the last). Maybe your email client is filtering it out for you. This list gets A LOT of spam. I'm lurking on over 25 different mailing lists and most of them don't seem to get any spam. On the others, it's only occasional and the list admins are quick to pounce on it. Here, it's like the floodgates are wide open. I always access it as a mailing list, and I seem to recall that the newsgroup feed isn't filtered the same way as the mailing list is. The last time I brought up the topic, I offered to do the work of filtering and banning spammers. The consensus seemed to be that it wasn't possible because the newsgroup IS filtered the same way as the mailing list. TJG -- Ghodmode http://www.ghodmode.com/blog -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: List spam
On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 9:39 PM, Philip Semanchuk phi...@semanchuk.com wrote: On Aug 18, 2011, at 8:58 AM, Jason Staudenmayer wrote: I really like this list as part of my learning tools but the amount of spam that I've been getting from it is CRAZY. Doesn't anything get scanned before it sent to the list? This has been discussed on the list a number of times before, so I'll refer you to the archives for details. Basically, the mailing list receives postings from Google Groups and vice versa. Most of the spam comes from Google Groups. If you add a mail filter that deletes anything with the Organization header set to http://groups.google.com;, you won't see much spam anymore. In my experience, you'll also miss a number of legitimate postings. You are absolutely right, it has been brought up before. But I'm glad it's been brought up again. It's such a problem that it degrades the usefulness of the list and the community. Most of the mailing lists I'm on are managed using Google Groups and many of them are on mailman, like this list. I don't see spam on them, so I don't know what's going on here. It's not really filtering at all. Most lists only allow members to post and the admins are quick to boot offenders. For the most part, I'm just a lurker, so my suggestion shouldn't carry as much weight, but here it is anyway... Make an effort to curb the spam even if it means killing the newsgroup availability. Choose mailman or Google Groups, or another single solution. Make it members only, but allow anyone to register with an automated confirmation email and a CAPTCHA. Appoint a list admin who has a few minutes each day to scan subjects of emails for spammers and remove them from the members list. ... problem solved. Yes. I'm saying we should abandon those who only follow the list via newsgroups. Yes. I'm willing to do the work, but I'm not the right choice. HTH Philip -- Ghodmode http://www.ghodmode.com/blog -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: List spam
On Aug 18, 8:39 am, Jason Staudenmayer jas...@adventureaquarium.com wrote: [snip irony] Adventure Aquarium is America's Most Touchable Aquarium! Featuring the ALL NEW Stingray Beach Club Where you can touch and hand feed the gentle stingrays To buy and print your tickets at home visit www.AdventureAquarium.com ..·º..·`·.º..·`·.º..·`·.º ..·`·.º..·`·.º..·`·.º ..·º..·`·.º A Herschend Family Entertainment Company Don't you find it a bit ironic that you are complaining about spam but yet you are spamming this group with your link to buy tickets to a stingray petting zoo (which is in fact an oxymoron?) under the guise of spam bashing? Tip of the day: Create a website! PS: I do however find the recent rape spam atrocious! -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: List spam
Jason Staudenmayer jas...@adventureaquarium.com writes: I really like this list as part of my learning tools but the amount of spam that I've been getting from it is CRAZY. Doesn't anything get scanned before it sent to the list? I'm using nntp to read this newsgroup (through an academic server). No spam at all. -- Alain. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: List spam
Ghodmode ghodm...@ghodmode.com writes: [...] Make an effort to curb the spam even if it means killing the newsgroup availability. Choose mailman or Google Groups, or another single solution. Make it members only, but allow anyone to register with an automated confirmation email and a CAPTCHA. Appoint a list admin who has a few minutes each day to scan subjects of emails for spammers and remove them from the members list. Or save work and find a public nntp server (or setup one, or ask your provider), and use a news reader to follow the list (even thunderbird can do this). No spam, no need to store messages on your machine, auto-purge after a configurable delay, etc. Problem solved. -- Alain. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: List spam
On Thu, 18 Aug 2011 22:37:37 +0800 Ghodmode ghodm...@ghodmode.com wrote: Make an effort to curb the spam even if it means killing the newsgroup availability. Choose mailman or Google Groups, or another single solution. Make it members only, but allow anyone to register with an automated confirmation email and a CAPTCHA. Appoint a list admin who has a few minutes each day to scan subjects of emails for spammers and remove them from the members list. I'm not sure it would scale but I have a few lists that I protect by doing a few simple things. First, I make the list so that only members can post. I then set the list so that everyone is moderated by default. When someone posts a legitimate message I simply pass it and then unmoderate that user. It's not as onerous as it sounds. Very few people actually post and you only have to deal with those that do once. Mailman makes it pretty simple to manage too. -- D'Arcy J.M. Cain da...@druid.net | Democracy is three wolves http://www.druid.net/darcy/| and a sheep voting on +1 416 425 1212 (DoD#0082)(eNTP) | what's for dinner. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
RE: List spam
On Aug 18, 8:39 am, Jason Staudenmayer jas...@adventureaquarium.com wrote: [snip irony] Adventure Aquarium is America's Most Touchable Aquarium! Featuring the ALL NEW Stingray Beach Club Where you can touch and hand feed the gentle stingrays To buy and print your tickets at home visit www.AdventureAquarium.com ..·º..·`·.º..·`·.º..·`·.º ..·`·.º..·`·.º..·`·.º ..·º..·`·.º A Herschend Family Entertainment Company Don't you find it a bit ironic that you are complaining about spam but yet you are spamming this group with your link to buy tickets to a stingray petting zoo (which is in fact an oxymoron?) under the guise of spam bashing? Tip of the day: Create a website! PS: I do however find the recent rape spam atrocious! I do know it is ironic that I forgot to stop the footer for the one reply. It's not my choice to add it but I was able to find a way around that work policy for list emails. I'm a strong opponent of dropping any email with a stupid footer spam. Jason ..·º -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: List spam
On Thursday, August 18, 2011 12:08:00 PM Ghodmode did opine: On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 9:39 PM, Philip Semanchuk phi...@semanchuk.com wrote: On Aug 18, 2011, at 8:58 AM, Jason Staudenmayer wrote: I really like this list as part of my learning tools but the amount of spam that I've been getting from it is CRAZY. Doesn't anything get scanned before it sent to the list? This has been discussed on the list a number of times before, so I'll refer you to the archives for details. Basically, the mailing list receives postings from Google Groups and vice versa. Most of the spam comes from Google Groups. If you add a mail filter that deletes anything with the Organization header set to http://groups.google.com;, you won't see much spam anymore. In my experience, you'll also miss a number of legitimate postings. You are absolutely right, it has been brought up before. But I'm glad it's been brought up again. It's such a problem that it degrades the usefulness of the list and the community. Most of the mailing lists I'm on are managed using Google Groups and many of them are on mailman, like this list. I don't see spam on them, so I don't know what's going on here. It's not really filtering at all. Most lists only allow members to post and the admins are quick to boot offenders. For the most part, I'm just a lurker, so my suggestion shouldn't carry as much weight, but here it is anyway... Make an effort to curb the spam even if it means killing the newsgroup availability. Choose mailman or Google Groups, or another single solution. Make it members only, but allow anyone to register with an automated confirmation email and a CAPTCHA. Appoint a list admin who has a few minutes each day to scan subjects of emails for spammers and remove them from the members list. ... problem solved. Yes. I'm saying we should abandon those who only follow the list via newsgroups. Yes. I'm willing to do the work, but I'm not the right choice. +100 (or whatever it takes) HTH Philip -- Ghodmode http://www.ghodmode.com/blog Cheers, gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) The state of innocence contains the germs of all future sin. -- Alexandre Arnoux, Etudes et caprices -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: List spam
On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 10:58 PM, Alain Ketterlin al...@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr wrote: Ghodmode ghodm...@ghodmode.com writes: [...] Make an effort to curb the spam even if it means killing the newsgroup availability. Choose mailman or Google Groups, or another single solution. Make it members only, but allow anyone to register with an automated confirmation email and a CAPTCHA. Appoint a list admin who has a few minutes each day to scan subjects of emails for spammers and remove them from the members list. Or save work and find a public nntp server (or setup one, or ask your provider), and use a news reader to follow the list (even thunderbird can do this). No spam, no need to store messages on your machine, auto-purge after a configurable delay, etc. Problem solved. Is that easier than just checking your email? I guess it's a matter of perspective... Newsgroups aren't inherently spam-free. They're filtered. At least that's the case with Gmane (http://gmane.org/spam.php). My own ISP doesn't provide a news server and, although there are many links for free open news servers, most of them don't seem to work. I did check, though. I found a free, open news server with comp.lang.python after 6 that didn't work. Unfortunately, the one I found is read-only. I'll have to do some more looking if I want to participate in the newsgroup. I set it up in Thunderbird. I waited for a few minutes while it loaded the available newsgroups, then filtered the list for comp.lang.python and subscribed. I noticed that, when clicking on a message, there is another delay while I wait for the content of the message to load. I was happy to see significantly less spam in the newsgroup than in the mailing list, but there was still more than I see in other mailing lists. For me, this is much more difficult, although I'm sure that this is a matter of perspective. Also, I have something that's tied to this computer. I can't read it on my laptop, my mobile device, or at a cyber-cafe. I have to sit in front of this computer if I want to read the newsgroup and, until I find another news server that isn't read-only, I can't even post messages. For me, I'll stick with email. -- Alain. -- Ghodmode http://www.ghodmode.com/blog -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: List spam
On Thursday, August 18, 2011 12:08:38 PM Alain Ketterlin did opine: Jason Staudenmayer jas...@adventureaquarium.com writes: I really like this list as part of my learning tools but the amount of spam that I've been getting from it is CRAZY. Doesn't anything get scanned before it sent to the list? I'm using nntp to read this newsgroup (through an academic server). No spam at all. -- Alain. Which I think re-enforces the conclusion I have reached, and that is that the most obnoxious spammer here is injecting his spam directly to a machine handling google's groups that is downstream of any filtering they claim to do. Short answer is to disconnect the the NNTP link and make this list into a REAL mailing list. Subscribers only, or get past a GOOD captcha. Spammers have stuff that can do the average captcha in a second or less, so choose the images wisely and randomize both the background and the text. Cheers, gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) The state of innocence contains the germs of all future sin. -- Alexandre Arnoux, Etudes et caprices -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: List spam
On Thursday, August 18, 2011 12:14:39 PM Alain Ketterlin did opine: Ghodmode ghodm...@ghodmode.com writes: [...] Make an effort to curb the spam even if it means killing the newsgroup availability. Choose mailman or Google Groups, or another single solution. Make it members only, but allow anyone to register with an automated confirmation email and a CAPTCHA. Appoint a list admin who has a few minutes each day to scan subjects of emails for spammers and remove them from the members list. Or save work and find a public nntp server (or setup one, or ask your provider), and use a news reader to follow the list (even thunderbird can do this). No spam, no need to store messages on your machine, auto-purge after a configurable delay, etc. Problem solved. -- Alain. That is asking the user to take considerable effort and resources to do that. What is wrong with the mailing list only approach? Cheers, gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) The plot was designed in a light vein that somehow became varicose. -- David Lardner -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: List spam
In article cak--mtqoq0scvofzfzfcd7jf9n1yjcpqyjcrdxgtxxpdoyc...@mail.gmail.com, Ghodmode ghodm...@ghodmode.com wrote: Newsgroups aren't inherently spam-free. They're filtered. At least that's the case with Gmane (http://gmane.org/spam.php). My own ISP doesn't provide a news server and, although there are many links for free open news servers, most of them don't seem to work. I did check, though. I found a free, open news server with comp.lang.python after 6 that didn't work. Unfortunately, the one I found is read-only. I'll have to do some more looking if I want to participate in the newsgroup. I set it up in Thunderbird. I waited for a few minutes while it loaded the available newsgroups, then filtered the list for comp.lang.python and subscribed. I noticed that, when clicking on a message, there is another delay while I wait for the content of the message to load. I was happy to see significantly less spam in the newsgroup than in the mailing list, but there was still more than I see in other mailing lists. For me, this is much more difficult, although I'm sure that this is a matter of perspective. Also, I have something that's tied to this computer. I can't read it on my laptop, my mobile device, or at a cyber-cafe. I have to sit in front of this computer if I want to read the newsgroup and, until I find another news server that isn't read-only, I can't even post messages. Confusingly, this forum is available via a number of channels. Here is a subset of them (there are more): 1. python-list mailing list http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list 2. comp.lang.python news:comp.lang.python (Usenet group via NNTP) 3. google groups 4. gmane (various formats) http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.python.general a. gmane.comp.python.general (non-Usenet group via NNTP) b. web interfaces All of the above allow both reading and posting. gmane does spam filtering so, if you read and post through it, you will avoid most of the spam (a little bit gets through). The gmane nntp server (which is for gmane groups only, not regular Usenet groups) is free to use. http://gmane.org/about.php -- Ned Deily, n...@acm.org -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: List spam
gene heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com writes: Or save work and find a public nntp server (or setup one, or ask your provider), and use a news reader to follow the list (even thunderbird can do this). No spam, no need to store messages on your machine, auto-purge after a configurable delay, etc. That is asking the user to take considerable effort and resources to do that. What is wrong with the mailing list only approach? Nothing really. Regarding effort and resources, once you've found a NNTP server there's very little effort (probably less than subscribing to a mailing list). I have 4 lines in my .emacs. And this lets me browse dozens of groups (or thousands if I had time for this). It might not be easy to find a server which will let you post, but that's because a few years back many internet providers decided that nntp was too much traffic. I guess it would now be considered ridiculous compared to the average web-site. But I'd like to return the question. What's wrong with nntp? It looks like everybody agrees that nntp brings spam. I just wanted to say that's not true, I use nntp extensively and haven't seen spam for months (I'm talking about 15-20 groups, not comp.lang.python only). The real problem here seems to be google groups, which in some way forwards spam to the mailing-list. How this happens is beyond my understanding. But let's try to fix the real problem. -- Alain. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: List spam
On Thu, 18 Aug 2011 16:58:04 +0200, Alain Ketterlin wrote: Ghodmode ghodm...@ghodmode.com writes: [...] Make an effort to curb the spam even if it means killing the newsgroup availability. Choose mailman or Google Groups, or another single solution. Make it members only, but allow anyone to register with an automated confirmation email and a CAPTCHA. Appoint a list admin who has a few minutes each day to scan subjects of emails for spammers and remove them from the members list. Or save work and find a public nntp server (or setup one, or ask your provider), and use a news reader to follow the list (even thunderbird can do this). No spam, no need to store messages on your machine, auto-purge after a configurable delay, etc. Or pay for filtered NNTP service. I'm happy with news.individual.net: 10 euros per year, appears to be competently run, very little spam gets through (maybe like 1 message per heavily posted group per day), and they probably carry all the newsgroups you follow. I have no affiliation with them, except for being a customer who hopes they stay in business. -- To email me, substitute nowhere-spamcop, invalid-net. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: List spam
On Thu, 18 Aug 2011 12:15:59 -0400, gene heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote: [snip] What is wrong with the mailing list only approach? In the mailing-list approach, how do I search for prior discussions on a subject? (I'm not particularly opposed to the mailing list, I'm just an NNTP follower worried about the uncertainties of change.) -- To email me, substitute nowhere-spamcop, invalid-net. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: List spam
On Aug 18, 2011, at 1:10 PM, Peter Pearson wrote: On Thu, 18 Aug 2011 12:15:59 -0400, gene heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote: [snip] What is wrong with the mailing list only approach? In the mailing-list approach, how do I search for prior discussions on a subject? (I'm not particularly opposed to the mailing list, I'm just an NNTP follower worried about the uncertainties of change.) I use a Google search like this: site:mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/ banana Although that has its own issues, as not all messages seem to make it to that list (or they have the X-No-Archive bit set?) Cheers P -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: List spam
On Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 12:37 AM, Ned Deily n...@acm.org wrote: 4. gmane (various formats) http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.python.general a. gmane.comp.python.general (non-Usenet group via NNTP) All of the above allow both reading and posting. gmane does spam filtering so, if you read and post through it, you will avoid most of the spam (a little bit gets through). The gmane nntp server (which is for gmane groups only, not regular Usenet groups) is free to use. Unfortunately, Gmane's version of this newsgroup (gmane.comp.python.general) has all of the offensive spam. I'm kinda surprised considering the detailed information that they put on their site about spam filtering. These are the ones I got to work: - textnews.news.cambrium.nl - mail.tsu.ru ... They're light on the spam, but they're read-only. Ironically, the Google Groups version (https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/comp.lang.python) has almost none of the spam, although I did see one message that said This topic has been hidden because it was flagged for abuse. I can't join that Google Group, though. I guess that's because it's just a viewer for the newsgroup. -- Ned Deily, n...@acm.org -- Ghodmode http://www.ghodmode.com/blog -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: List spam
On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 3:37 PM, Ghodmode ghodm...@ghodmode.com wrote: Make an effort to curb the spam even if it means killing the newsgroup availability. Choose mailman or Google Groups, or another single solution. Make it members only, but allow anyone to register with an automated confirmation email and a CAPTCHA. Appoint a list admin who has a few minutes each day to scan subjects of emails for spammers and remove them from the members list. Unfortunately spammers can create email addresses very quickly, and CAPTCHAs are inherently weak (even the best of them are easily cracked by the Chinese human botnets). However, I wouldn't be against a system of spam filtering with three levels: Not Spam, gets straight onto the list; Definite Spam, gets deleted; and Dubious, which gets dropped into a mod's basket. ChrisA -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: List spam
5963 unread emails. Thanks python-list + other mailing-lists! My recommendation to you is to setup a different account for your mailing-lists. Alternatively setup some mail rules. On Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 3:46 AM, Chris Angelico ros...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 3:37 PM, Ghodmode ghodm...@ghodmode.com wrote: Make an effort to curb the spam even if it means killing the newsgroup availability. Choose mailman or Google Groups, or another single solution. Make it members only, but allow anyone to register with an automated confirmation email and a CAPTCHA. Appoint a list admin who has a few minutes each day to scan subjects of emails for spammers and remove them from the members list. Unfortunately spammers can create email addresses very quickly, and CAPTCHAs are inherently weak (even the best of them are easily cracked by the Chinese human botnets). However, I wouldn't be against a system of spam filtering with three levels: Not Spam, gets straight onto the list; Definite Spam, gets deleted; and Dubious, which gets dropped into a mod's basket. ChrisA -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: List spam
Ghodmode ghodm...@ghodmode.com writes: Newsgroups aren't inherently spam-free. They're filtered. At least that's the case with Gmane (http://gmane.org/spam.php). My own ISP doesn't provide a news server and, although there are many links for free open news servers, most of them don't seem to work. You know, Gmane allows access also via NNTP, including this list. Server news.gmane.org, group name gmane.comp.python.general. Haven't used it since I get this list via normal NNTP as comp.lang.python. My NNTP access is via a computer club for 8 euros per year. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: List spam
On Thursday, August 18, 2011 02:12:58 PM Alain Ketterlin did opine: gene heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com writes: Or save work and find a public nntp server (or setup one, or ask your provider), and use a news reader to follow the list (even thunderbird can do this). No spam, no need to store messages on your machine, auto-purge after a configurable delay, etc. That is asking the user to take considerable effort and resources to do that. What is wrong with the mailing list only approach? Nothing really. Regarding effort and resources, once you've found a NNTP server there's very little effort (probably less than subscribing to a mailing list). I have 4 lines in my .emacs. And this lets me browse dozens of groups (or thousands if I had time for this). It might not be easy to find a server which will let you post, but that's because a few years back many internet providers decided that nntp was too much traffic. I guess it would now be considered ridiculous compared to the average web-site. But I'd like to return the question. What's wrong with nntp? The sheer volume of traffic eats 99% of an ISP's bandwidth. The last time I checked with one of the local ISP's that I quit using years ago because it was 30 miles away and was then long distance, giving me $300 phone bills, they said their server died (again, and that then traffic was such that a 300GB hard drive was being subject to a posting lifetime of 3 hours because it was filling the drive that quickly. At the time, they had 5 T1 circuits, and NNTP was eating 4 of them. To an ISP, that stuff is found on the ground behind the male of the bovine specie. No ISP I have access to a mail account on, except google, has the resources to maintain a full listing nnpt server. It looks like everybody agrees that nntp brings spam. I just wanted to say that's not true, I use nntp extensively and haven't seen spam for months (I'm talking about 15-20 groups, not comp.lang.python only). The real problem here seems to be google groups, which in some way forwards spam to the mailing-list. How this happens is beyond my understanding. But let's try to fix the real problem. I could just nuke them, but I suppose I'd then have to resubscribe to about 10 of my mailing lists through the server this msg comes from. That is gradually happening anyway because posting through a gmail account, you cannot turn off the dup deletions, so one never knows if ones post to a list got there until someone replies, you don't get an echo. I have even tried CCing this address as some have suggested, but that doesn't work either. gmail is NOT the huge thing it was touted to be, not by a hell of a long row of apple trees. -- Alain. Cheers, gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) It's not just a computer -- it's your ass. -- Cal Keegan -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: List spam
On Thursday, August 18, 2011 02:26:24 PM Peter Pearson did opine: On Thu, 18 Aug 2011 12:15:59 -0400, gene heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote: [snip] What is wrong with the mailing list only approach? In the mailing-list approach, how do I search for prior discussions on a subject? (I'm not particularly opposed to the mailing list, I'm just an NNTP follower worried about the uncertainties of change.) If the message still exists in your local email corpus, kmail for one has no problems searching it. However, since my corpus is close to 10gigs because my inbox and one list are not expired, the rest of them are expired on a selectable schedule that only saves the last 2000 or so msgs. Cheers, gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Hoare's Law of Large Problems: Inside every large problem is a small problem struggling to get out. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: List spam
On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 6:39 AM, Jason Staudenmayer jas...@adventureaquarium.com wrote: On 18/08/2011 13:58, Jason Staudenmayer wrote: I really like this list as part of my learning tools but the amount of spam that I've been getting from it is CRAZY. Doesn't anything get scanned before it sent to the list? I can deal with normal spam but this stuff I've gotten is all about rape. Agreed, a few of the recent messages would've been far too many at a count of 1. What I do is forward the list to gmail. gmail has pretty decent spam filtering - normally. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: List spam
On Thu, 18 Aug 2011 14:30:37 +0100, Tim Golden wrote: I really like this list as part of my learning tools but the amount of spam that I've been getting from it is CRAZY. Doesn't anything get scanned before it sent to the list? I haven't seen any significant quantity of spam on the list for ages. (The occasional one does get through although I can't remember the last). I always access it as a mailing list, and I seem to recall that the newsgroup feed isn't filtered the same way as the mailing list is. That depends upon your news server. I see a small amount of spam for this group, but not enough that it concerns me. If the mailing list is getting spam from the newsgroup, the solution is to either find a cleaner feed or add a spam filter to the gateway. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: List spam
I did check, though. I found a free, open news server with comp.lang.python after 6 that didn't work. Unfortunately, the one I found is read-only. I'll have to do some more looking if I want to participate in the newsgroup. I set it up in Thunderbird. I read and post to this and other Python lists via news.gmane.org (free) with Thunderbird. It mirrors 1000s of technical mail lists, including 200+ with 'python'. I believe it therefore has less spam than c.l.p (ie, minus whatever gets filtered out by the pipermail at python.org). First post to any list requires a response to an email. Uptime is pretty good. -- Terry Jan Reedy -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: List spam
On 8/18/2011 12:14 PM, gene heskett wrote: into a REAL mailing list. Subscribers only, or get past a GOOD captcha. I just had an idea. Ask 'What is python? __ or What can you do with a python?' with a free-form fill in the blank answer. Look for 'computer', 'program' or 'language' in the response. 'snake' fails the test. Or 'Enter a Python keyword (search the tutorial if you do not know any) ' -- Terry Jan Reedy -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: List spam
On Thursday, August 18, 2011 05:18:42 PM Terry Reedy did opine: On 8/18/2011 12:14 PM, gene heskett wrote: into a REAL mailing list. Subscribers only, or get past a GOOD captcha. I just had an idea. Ask 'What is python? __ or What can you do with a python?' with a free-form fill in the blank answer. Look for 'computer', 'program' or 'language' in the response. 'snake' fails the test. Or 'Enter a Python keyword (search the tutorial if you do not know any) ' Sounds good, but now you've trained the spammer who is without a doubt watching this list. Cheers, gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) QOTD: I may not be able to walk, but I drive from the sitting position. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
RE: List spam
Or 'Enter a Python keyword (search the tutorial if you do not know any) ' Sounds good, but now you've trained the spammer who is without a doubt watching this list. Teach them Python before they can post, I like it! Ramit Ramit Prasad | JPMorgan Chase Investment Bank | Currencies Technology 712 Main Street | Houston, TX 77002 work phone: 713 - 216 - 5423 This email is confidential and subject to important disclaimers and conditions including on offers for the purchase or sale of securities, accuracy and completeness of information, viruses, confidentiality, legal privilege, and legal entity disclaimers, available at http://www.jpmorgan.com/pages/disclosures/email. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: List spam
gene heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com writes: Short answer is to disconnect the the NNTP link and make this list into a REAL mailing list. Subscribers only, or get past a GOOD captcha. Many of the more valuable contributors post via NNTP, which does not require mailing list subscription nor CAPTCHA. One of the compelling features of this forum is that newcomers to Python can post here without the hurdles you're describing. -- \ “We spend the first twelve months of our children's lives | `\ teaching them to walk and talk and the next twelve years | _o__) telling them to sit down and shut up.” —Phyllis Diller | Ben Finney -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: List spam
On Thu, 18 Aug 2011 16:00:40 +0100, Jason Staudenmayer jas...@adventureaquarium.com wrote: I'm a strong opponent of dropping any email with a stupid footer spam. By contrast, an excessively large sig (particularly an excessively large sig without a proper separator) is something that's guaranteed to get on my wick, and usually indicates someone I don't want to bother listening to. Thank you for trimming it. I'm reading this as the comp.lang.python newsgroup, straight off an NNTP server, and to be honest I'm not getting the level of spam you are talking about. There's some, sure -- usually for Bollywood actress pictures -- but not enough to make me worry about Opera's relatively poor newsgroup filtering facilities. If you're getting as much as you say, it's being injected on the mail side of the gateway somehow. -- Rhodri James *-* Wildebeest Herder to the Masses -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: List spam
On 2011-08-18, Prasad, Ramit ramit.pra...@jpmorgan.com wrote: Or 'Enter a Python keyword (search the tutorial if you do not know any) ' Sounds good, but now you've trained the spammer who is without a doubt watching this list. Teach them Python before they can post, I like it! I don't. If I want to get started in a language, I might well want to read about it a bit, and maybe ask questions like what is a good book for me to start with? If I have to know the language to do that, well... -s -- Copyright 2011, all wrongs reversed. Peter Seebach / usenet-nos...@seebs.net http://www.seebs.net/log/ -- lawsuits, religion, and funny pictures http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_Game_(Scientology) -- get educated! I am not speaking for my employer, although they do rent some of my opinions. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: List spam
On Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 12:03 AM, Seebs usenet-nos...@seebs.net wrote: I don't. If I want to get started in a language, I might well want to read about it a bit, and maybe ask questions like what is a good book for me to start with? If I have to know the language to do that, well... When I start with a language, I want two things: a compiler/interpreter, and online documentation. (A book would be equivalent to the latter, but I tend to prefer to read things online.) Asking questions comes later; first, I want to get a comprehension for the language's features. By the time I join a list like this, I want to be able to understand the answers I get. ChrisA -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: List spam
gene heskett wrote: But I'd like to return the question. What's wrong with nntp? The sheer volume of traffic eats 99% of an ISP's bandwidth. I doubt that very much, particularly if the ISP drops the binary newsgroups. My ISP, Internode, has provided nntp for many years. For a while a few years back they dropped binary newsgroups, but thay have brought them back. They wouldn't do that if there wasn't a clear demand for it, and if they didn't believe that on the balance, providing free Usenet access to customers didn't pay for itself. These days, many big ISPs complain about bittorrent using up their bandwidth. I call shenanigans. That's like my local bottle shop complaining that 99% of their sales comes from wine, and that stocking all that wine takes away valuable shelf space that could be used for imported Romanian beers and Chinese whiskey (no offense to anyone who likes Romanian beer or Chinese whiskey). It's a nonsense claim -- if your customers want to use the bandwidth they're paying for on bittorrent, or any other protocol, what difference does it make to you? It's not like you have to install a second Interweb tube just for bittorrent, or that bittorrent packets cost more than HTTP packets. Fer fecks sake, the ISP doesn't even have to run a bittorrent server! It's practically free money to the ISP, packets go in, packets go out, they don't have to do a bloody thing with them. Now, an ISP might not have the bandwidth to supply all the needs of their customers, that's a separate issue. But complaining that the problem is specifically because they use bittorrent, as if it would disappear if they changed to HTTP, is bogus. -- Steven -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: List spam
Alain Ketterlin wrote: Jason Staudenmayer jas...@adventureaquarium.com writes: I really like this list as part of my learning tools but the amount of spam that I've been getting from it is CRAZY. Doesn't anything get scanned before it sent to the list? I'm using nntp to read this newsgroup (through an academic server). No spam at all. I'm also using nntp (Usenet) and see very little spam. There was a flurry of about ten *extremely* obnoxious pr0n spams in a row, and the occasional odd one here or there, but generally I see hardly any. It is ironic that some people say that the solution to the spam problem is to move to Google Groups, because most of the spam comes *from* Google Groups. -- Steven -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: List spam
On 8/18/2011 10:10 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: Now, an ISP might not have the bandwidth to supply all the needs of their customers, that's a separate issue. But complaining that the problem is specifically because they use bittorrent, as if it would disappear if they changed to HTTP, is bogus. Or changed to getting their movies via NetFlix, for instance, as Comcast *is* complaining about. I believe their real complaint is that they are only paid to move bits, and not for originating them, even though they already get several times as much per month as NetFlix. -- Terry Jan Reedy -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
