Re: Python - NAWIT / Community
My question relates to community contribution. My concern arose when recently installing the pydev.org extensions in Eclipse. Now as far as my understanding goes the licensing on both is open source GPL. However Pydev became open source as part of aptana's acquistion, and for the moment pydev can be installed as part of the Aptana studio 2/3 releases individually as a plugin, but moving on if you vist the aptana site there is sweet little about python on their site, their site is dominated by Radrails. Just a little fix there, Pydev is open source EPL (not GPL). Also, yes, there's little content about Pydev in the Aptana homepage, but it points to the main Pydev homepage (http://pydev.org) which has the proper content related to Python (and it's currently being actively developed and also integrated in Aptana Studio 3, which is where the current efforts are targeted within Aptana now). Sorry if this causes the (wrong) perception that Pydev doesn't get as much attention. Can't help thinking they open sourced Pydev so they could bench it. So I started thinking that the only consistent env each python person has is idle as it ships in the install. Sorry, but I don't follow your thoughts here... there are many consistent environments for python development which are properly supported (Pydev being only one of them as you can see at http://stackoverflow.com/questions/81584/what-ide-to-use-for-python ). Sometimes we can contribute with money and sometimes with time, if I was to contribute money to ensure that I and all new coming python programmers could have a first class development environment to use what would I donate to? At the moment no particular group seems applicable. Is pydev actively being developed and for who? SPE is a great idea but is Stan still developing? Pyscripter is good but not 64 capable. Plus none of these projects seem community centric. I'm the current Pydev maintainer (since 2005)... and while I cannot state that I'll be in that role forever (forever is quite a long time), I do think it's well maintained and there are occasional patches from the community that uses it (although I still get to review all that goes in). Maybe its just my wish, maybe something already exists, but to my mind why is there not a central python community ide or plugin setup like pydev or using pydev(since currently it is very good - to me), which I know or at least could confidently donate time or money to further python. This could apply to many python area's does python use easy_install or pypm, well if you want camelot or zope (unless you have business edition) its easy_install, but you wont find an ide with built in egg or pypm support? I think the issue is that only recently (if you compare with the others) has easy_install became the de facto standard in python (so, it'd be more an issue of interest adding such a feature to the ide). Why every Ruby ide has gems manager, and for that fact look at netbeans, the ide is good but support for python is mentioned on a far flung community page where some developers are trying to maintain good python support. PS they seem to be doing a good job, but a review of the mailing list archives shows little activity. One could say that activestate puts in good support but then they do not provide an ide within the means of the average part time person retailing its main edition at over $300, Pycharm a good ide at $99 but then where is my money going. I think a community plugin architecture which contained components like pydev, pyscripter, eclipse and eggs/pypm packages would give a place I can contribute time as my skills grow and confidently donate money knowing I am assisting the development of community tools and packages we all can use. No need to reinvent the wheel most things already exist, for example apt-get rpm style package management time tested and could be easily used to manage python eggs for example. Anyway I have had my 2 cents, if someone is contributing more than I know, and this wasn't intended to dimnish anyone's effort, just wanting to look to growing and fostering a stronger python community. Well, I can only comment from the Pydev side here, but do you think it'd be worth reinventing all that's already done in it just for having it in Python? When I started contributing to Pydev back in 2004 I didn't go that way because Eclipse itself has a huge community that's already in place and is properly maintained, which takes a lot of effort, so, I'm not sure it'd be worth reproducing all that just to have it 100% Python code -- I say 100% because Pydev does have a number of things that are in Python, such as the debugger and Jython for the scripting engine, although the major portion is really in java. Another important aspect is that it's much better if you can get an experience that can later be replicated to other languages (which Eclipse provides). Cheers, Fabio --
Re: Python - NAWIT / Community
On Jan 1, 9:03 am, Fabio Zadrozny fabi...@gmail.com wrote: My question relates to community contribution. My concern arose when recently installing the pydev.org extensions in Eclipse. Now as far as my understanding goes the licensing on both is open source GPL. However Pydev became open source as part of aptana's acquistion, and for the moment pydev can be installed as part of the Aptana studio 2/3 releases individually as a plugin, but moving on if you vist the aptana site there is sweet little about python on their site, their site is dominated by Radrails. Just a little fix there, Pydev is open source EPL (not GPL). Also, yes, there's little content about Pydev in the Aptana homepage, but it points to the main Pydev homepage (http://pydev.org) which has the proper content related to Python (and it's currently being actively developed and also integrated in Aptana Studio 3, which is where the current efforts are targeted within Aptana now). Sorry if this causes the (wrong) perception that Pydev doesn't get as much attention. Can't help thinking they open sourced Pydev so they could bench it. So I started thinking that the only consistent env each python person has is idle as it ships in the install. Sorry, but I don't follow your thoughts here... there are many consistent environments for python development which are properly supported (Pydev being only one of them as you can see athttp://stackoverflow.com/questions/81584/what-ide-to-use-for-python). Sometimes we can contribute with money and sometimes with time, if I was to contribute money to ensure that I and all new coming python programmers could have a first class development environment to use what would I donate to? At the moment no particular group seems applicable. Is pydev actively being developed and for who? SPE is a great idea but is Stan still developing? Pyscripter is good but not 64 capable. Plus none of these projects seem community centric. I'm the current Pydev maintainer (since 2005)... and while I cannot state that I'll be in that role forever (forever is quite a long time), I do think it's well maintained and there are occasional patches from the community that uses it (although I still get to review all that goes in). Maybe its just my wish, maybe something already exists, but to my mind why is there not a central python community ide or plugin setup like pydev or using pydev(since currently it is very good - to me), which I know or at least could confidently donate time or money to further python. This could apply to many python area's does python use easy_install or pypm, well if you want camelot or zope (unless you have business edition) its easy_install, but you wont find an ide with built in egg or pypm support? I think the issue is that only recently (if you compare with the others) has easy_install became the de facto standard in python (so, it'd be more an issue of interest adding such a feature to the ide). Why every Ruby ide has gems manager, and for that fact look at netbeans, the ide is good but support for python is mentioned on a far flung community page where some developers are trying to maintain good python support. PS they seem to be doing a good job, but a review of the mailing list archives shows little activity. One could say that activestate puts in good support but then they do not provide an ide within the means of the average part time person retailing its main edition at over $300, Pycharm a good ide at $99 but then where is my money going. I think a community plugin architecture which contained components like pydev, pyscripter, eclipse and eggs/pypm packages would give a place I can contribute time as my skills grow and confidently donate money knowing I am assisting the development of community tools and packages we all can use. No need to reinvent the wheel most things already exist, for example apt-get rpm style package management time tested and could be easily used to manage python eggs for example. Anyway I have had my 2 cents, if someone is contributing more than I know, and this wasn't intended to dimnish anyone's effort, just wanting to look to growing and fostering a stronger python community. Well, I can only comment from the Pydev side here, but do you think it'd be worth reinventing all that's already done in it just for having it in Python? When I started contributing to Pydev back in 2004 I didn't go that way because Eclipse itself has a huge community that's already in place and is properly maintained, which takes a lot of effort, so, I'm not sure it'd be worth reproducing all that just to have it 100% Python code -- I say 100% because Pydev does have a number of things that are in Python, such as the debugger and Jython for the scripting engine, although the major portion is really in java. Another important aspect is that it's much better if
Python - NAWIT / Community
I just wanted to put out a question about IDE's but this is NAWIT - not another which ide thread. My question relates to community contribution. My concern arose when recently installing the pydev.org extensions in Eclipse. Now as far as my understanding goes the licensing on both is open source GPL. However Pydev became open source as part of aptana's acquistion, and for the moment pydev can be installed as part of the Aptana studio 2/3 releases individually as a plugin, but moving on if you vist the aptana site there is sweet little about python on their site, their site is dominated by Radrails. Can't help thinking they open sourced Pydev so they could bench it. So I started thinking that the only consistent env each python person has is idle as it ships in the install. Sometimes we can contribute with money and sometimes with time, if I was to contribute money to ensure that I and all new coming python programmers could have a first class development environment to use what would I donate to? At the moment no particular group seems applicable. Is pydev actively being developed and for who? SPE is a great idea but is Stan still developing? Pyscripter is good but not 64 capable. Plus none of these projects seem community centric. Maybe its just my wish, maybe something already exists, but to my mind why is there not a central python community ide or plugin setup like pydev or using pydev(since currently it is very good - to me), which I know or at least could confidently donate time or money to further python. This could apply to many python area's does python use easy_install or pypm, well if you want camelot or zope (unless you have business edition) its easy_install, but you wont find an ide with built in egg or pypm support? Why every Ruby ide has gems manager, and for that fact look at netbeans, the ide is good but support for python is mentioned on a far flung community page where some developers are trying to maintain good python support. PS they seem to be doing a good job, but a review of the mailing list archives shows little activity. One could say that activestate puts in good support but then they do not provide an ide within the means of the average part time person retailing its main edition at over $300, Pycharm a good ide at $99 but then where is my money going. I think a community plugin architecture which contained components like pydev, pyscripter, eclipse and eggs/pypm packages would give a place I can contribute time as my skills grow and confidently donate money knowing I am assisting the development of community tools and packages we all can use. No need to reinvent the wheel most things already exist, for example apt-get rpm style package management time tested and could be easily used to manage python eggs for example. Anyway I have had my 2 cents, if someone is contributing more than I know, and this wasn't intended to dimnish anyone's effort, just wanting to look to growing and fostering a stronger python community. Sayth -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python - NAWIT / Community
On Tue, 2010-12-28 at 02:26 -0800, flebber wrote: Can't help thinking they open sourced Pydev so they could bench it. So? That isn't uncommon at all; to Open Source when you've moved on. I started thinking that the only consistent env each python person has is idle as it ships in the install. There is a plethora of Python IDE's [personally I use Monodevelop, which supports Python, and is fast and stable]. Sometimes we can contribute with money and sometimes with time, if I was to contribute money to ensure that I and all new coming python programmers could have a first class development environment to use what would I donate to? At the moment no particular group seems applicable. Many projects accept donations via PayPal. Sourceforge supports this. Is pydev actively being developed and for who? SPE is a great idea but is Stan still developing? Pyscripter is good but not 64 capable. Plus none of these projects seem community centric. Why not just check the repo and see the real answer for yourself? It is Open Source after all. https://github.com/aptana/Pydev/commits/master Maybe its just my wish, maybe something already exists, but to my mind why is there not a central python community ide or plugin setup like pydev or using pydev(since currently it is very good - to me), which I know or at least could confidently donate time or money to further python. You could checkout the code of any Python IDE and hack on it. I think a community plugin architecture which contained components like pydev, pyscripter, eclipse and eggs/pypm packages would give a place I can contribute time as my skills grow and confidently donate money knowing I am assisting the development of community tools and packages we all can use. So just do it. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python - NAWIT / Community
On Dec 28, 10:16 pm, Adam Tauno Williams awill...@whitemice.org wrote: On Tue, 2010-12-28 at 02:26 -0800, flebber wrote: Can't help thinking they open sourced Pydev so they could bench it. So? That isn't uncommon at all; to Open Source when you've moved on. I started thinking that the only consistent env each python person has is idle as it ships in the install. There is a plethora of Python IDE's [personally I use Monodevelop, which supports Python, and is fast and stable]. Sometimes we can contribute with money and sometimes with time, if I was to contribute money to ensure that I and all new coming python programmers could have a first class development environment to use what would I donate to? At the moment no particular group seems applicable. Many projects accept donations via PayPal. Sourceforge supports this. Is pydev actively being developed and for who? SPE is a great idea but is Stan still developing? Pyscripter is good but not 64 capable. Plus none of these projects seem community centric. Why not just check the repo and see the real answer for yourself? It is Open Source after all. https://github.com/aptana/Pydev/commits/master Maybe its just my wish, maybe something already exists, but to my mind why is there not a central python community ide or plugin setup like pydev or using pydev(since currently it is very good - to me), which I know or at least could confidently donate time or money to further python. You could checkout the code of any Python IDE and hack on it. I think a community plugin architecture which contained components like pydev, pyscripter, eclipse and eggs/pypm packages would give a place I can contribute time as my skills grow and confidently donate money knowing I am assisting the development of community tools and packages we all can use. So just do it. Yes you can answer questions, but have you really? Your answer seems to be things are open source so who cares about community. Many projects accept donations via PayPal. Sourceforge supports this. Of course any fool can throw his/her money away thats no challenge why even use Paypal, I could have fun and by 10 bottles of vino and hand them out to recovering alcoholics. Don't answer things just for the sake of it, if you have nothing producive to say about furthering python and its community then say that. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python - NAWIT / Community
On Dec 28, 10:24 pm, flebber flebber.c...@gmail.com wrote: On Dec 28, 10:16 pm, Adam Tauno Williams awill...@whitemice.org wrote: On Tue, 2010-12-28 at 02:26 -0800, flebber wrote: Can't help thinking they open sourced Pydev so they could bench it. So? That isn't uncommon at all; to Open Source when you've moved on. I started thinking that the only consistent env each python person has is idle as it ships in the install. There is a plethora of Python IDE's [personally I use Monodevelop, which supports Python, and is fast and stable]. Sometimes we can contribute with money and sometimes with time, if I was to contribute money to ensure that I and all new coming python programmers could have a first class development environment to use what would I donate to? At the moment no particular group seems applicable. Many projects accept donations via PayPal. Sourceforge supports this. Is pydev actively being developed and for who? SPE is a great idea but is Stan still developing? Pyscripter is good but not 64 capable. Plus none of these projects seem community centric. Why not just check the repo and see the real answer for yourself? It is Open Source after all. https://github.com/aptana/Pydev/commits/master Maybe its just my wish, maybe something already exists, but to my mind why is there not a central python community ide or plugin setup like pydev or using pydev(since currently it is very good - to me), which I know or at least could confidently donate time or money to further python. You could checkout the code of any Python IDE and hack on it. I think a community plugin architecture which contained components like pydev, pyscripter, eclipse and eggs/pypm packages would give a place I can contribute time as my skills grow and confidently donate money knowing I am assisting the development of community tools and packages we all can use. So just do it. Yes you can answer questions, but have you really? Your answer seems to be things are open source so who cares about community. Many projects accept donations via PayPal. Sourceforge supports this. Of course any fool can throw his/her money away thats no challenge why even use Paypal, I could have fun and by 10 bottles of vino and hand them out to recovering alcoholics. Don't answer things just for the sake of it, if you have nothing producive to say about furthering python and its community then say that. My apologise I didn't mean to be that aggressive. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python - NAWIT / Community
On Tue, 2010-12-28 at 03:24 -0800, flebber wrote: On Dec 28, 10:16 pm, Adam Tauno Williams awill...@whitemice.org wrote: On Tue, 2010-12-28 at 02:26 -0800, flebber wrote: Is pydev actively being developed and for who? SPE is a great idea but is Stan still developing? Pyscripter is good but not 64 capable. Plus none of these projects seem community centric. Why not just check the repo and see the real answer for yourself? It is Open Source after all. https://github.com/aptana/Pydev/commits/master Yes you can answer questions, but have you really? Your answer seems to be things are open source so who cares about community. Many projects accept donations via PayPal. Sourceforge supports this. Of course any fool can throw his/her money away thats no challenge why even use Paypal, I could have fun and by 10 bottles of vino and hand them out to recovering alcoholics. Don't answer things just for the sake of it, if you have nothing producive to say about furthering python and its community then say that. I provided two concrete points, thank you: (1) Is a project actively developed? Look at the repo. That is the answer to the question [this isn't necessarily obvious to those new to Open Source]. (1.1.) Is PyDev a potential unifying force amoung IDEs? Which is the implied question - that is up to the OP and others who do/do-not contribute to it. (2) How can I donate cash? There is a fairly standard mechanism for that. Otherwise I think the OP's thoughts on community and how Open Source works are somewhat flawed. Community is a manifestation of people *doing* things; it does *not* arise out of people being concerned about things [since doing is quite apparently not a natural result of concern. Concern is like watching TV. Doing is getting out of the chair.] -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python - NAWIT / Community
On Dec 28, 10:37 pm, Adam Tauno Williams awill...@whitemice.org wrote: On Tue, 2010-12-28 at 03:24 -0800, flebber wrote: On Dec 28, 10:16 pm, Adam Tauno Williams awill...@whitemice.org wrote: On Tue, 2010-12-28 at 02:26 -0800, flebber wrote: Is pydev actively being developed and for who? SPE is a great idea but is Stan still developing? Pyscripter is good but not 64 capable. Plus none of these projects seem community centric. Why not just check the repo and see the real answer for yourself? It is Open Source after all. https://github.com/aptana/Pydev/commits/master Yes you can answer questions, but have you really? Your answer seems to be things are open source so who cares about community. Many projects accept donations via PayPal. Sourceforge supports this. Of course any fool can throw his/her money away thats no challenge why even use Paypal, I could have fun and by 10 bottles of vino and hand them out to recovering alcoholics. Don't answer things just for the sake of it, if you have nothing producive to say about furthering python and its community then say that. I provided two concrete points, thank you: (1) Is a project actively developed? Look at the repo. That is the answer to the question [this isn't necessarily obvious to those new to Open Source]. (1.1.) Is PyDev a potential unifying force amoung IDEs? Which is the implied question - that is up to the OP and others who do/do-not contribute to it. (2) How can I donate cash? There is a fairly standard mechanism for that. Otherwise I think the OP's thoughts on community and how Open Source works are somewhat flawed. Community is a manifestation of people *doing* things; it does *not* arise out of people being concerned about things [since doing is quite apparently not a natural result of concern. Concern is like watching TV. Doing is getting out of the chair.] Fair point. You have mistaken somewhat what I intended, partly my fault due to the verbosity. I wanted gaugue feedback on others perception of the current status quo. I am happy personally currently, currently being the main word. Community is a manifestation of people *doing* things; it does *not* arise out of people being concerned about things But concern is derived from interaction and observation and like fear and joy tells us we need to take an action. If someone chooses to sir idly by good for them I haven't the time or inclination personally. Tony Robbins Acheiving a goal is simple, decide what your goal is, set out towards it and consistently review whether you are getting closer or further from your goal and take action immediately. From a language perspective going to python 3 this definitely seems to be occurring well and strongly lead. Sometimes the fault in open source is the lack of a crystalized and shared goal and proper infrastructure.Gentoo as an example. Could get to they were going because they didn't share the same vision of what it was. I meant no attack by reviewing, just a somewhat newbies observations of python. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python - NAWIT / Community
On Dec 28, 11:10 pm, flebber flebber.c...@gmail.com wrote: On Dec 28, 10:37 pm, Adam Tauno Williams awill...@whitemice.org wrote: On Tue, 2010-12-28 at 03:24 -0800, flebber wrote: On Dec 28, 10:16 pm, Adam Tauno Williams awill...@whitemice.org wrote: On Tue, 2010-12-28 at 02:26 -0800, flebber wrote: Is pydev actively being developed and for who? SPE is a great idea but is Stan still developing? Pyscripter is good but not 64 capable. Plus none of these projects seem community centric. Why not just check the repo and see the real answer for yourself? It is Open Source after all. https://github.com/aptana/Pydev/commits/master Yes you can answer questions, but have you really? Your answer seems to be things are open source so who cares about community. Many projects accept donations via PayPal. Sourceforge supports this. Of course any fool can throw his/her money away thats no challenge why even use Paypal, I could have fun and by 10 bottles of vino and hand them out to recovering alcoholics. Don't answer things just for the sake of it, if you have nothing producive to say about furthering python and its community then say that. I provided two concrete points, thank you: (1) Is a project actively developed? Look at the repo. That is the answer to the question [this isn't necessarily obvious to those new to Open Source]. (1.1.) Is PyDev a potential unifying force amoung IDEs? Which is the implied question - that is up to the OP and others who do/do-not contribute to it. (2) How can I donate cash? There is a fairly standard mechanism for that. Otherwise I think the OP's thoughts on community and how Open Source works are somewhat flawed. Community is a manifestation of people *doing* things; it does *not* arise out of people being concerned about things [since doing is quite apparently not a natural result of concern. Concern is like watching TV. Doing is getting out of the chair.] Fair point. You have mistaken somewhat what I intended, partly my fault due to the verbosity. I wanted gaugue feedback on others perception of the current status quo. I am happy personally currently, currently being the main word. Community is a manifestation of people *doing* things; it does *not* arise out of people being concerned about things But concern is derived from interaction and observation and like fear and joy tells us we need to take an action. If someone chooses to sir idly by good for them I haven't the time or inclination personally. Tony Robbins Acheiving a goal is simple, decide what your goal is, set out towards it and consistently review whether you are getting closer or further from your goal and take action immediately. From a language perspective going to python 3 this definitely seems to be occurring well and strongly lead. Sometimes the fault in open source is the lack of a crystalized and shared goal and proper infrastructure.Gentoo as an example. Could get to they were going because they didn't share the same vision of what it was. I meant no attack by reviewing, just a somewhat newbies observations of python. Edit Gentoo couldn't get to where they were going because of lack of vision and a shared goal. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python - NAWIT / Community
On Tue, 28 Dec 2010 04:10:15 -0800, flebber wrote: Tony Robbins Acheiving a goal is simple, decide what your goal is, set out towards it and consistently review whether you are getting closer or further from your goal and take action immediately. Writing bug-free code is simple: decide what you want your code to do, write code to do it, and consistently review whether you are getting more or fewer bugs, and take action immediately. -- Steven -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
