Re: Python for Webscripting (like PHP)
Alessandro Bottoni wrote: (Python has even been told to be used by Yahoo! and Google, among others, but nobody was able to demonstrate this, so far) hint: http://mail.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=6554 /F -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python for Webscripting (like PHP)
Fredrik Lundh [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: (Python has even been told to be used by Yahoo! and Google, among others, but nobody was able to demonstrate this, so far) hint: http://mail.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=6554 I don't see anything about Python at that url. I've heard Gmail is written in Java. Google is well known to use Python for many internal purposes, and perhaps for some low traffic administrative web pages. The main search application is written in C++ and is enormous. I haven't heard that any high traffic pages are handled in Python. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python jobs (was Re: Python for Webscripting (like PHP))
Aahz wrote: In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], Steve Holden [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There's informal evidence that the Python secret is getting out. Sharpen up your resumes, guys, you may not have to limit Python to home usage soon :-) OTOH, the big sucking sound from Google and Yahoo (plus other places like Ironport) is making it more difficult to hire Python programmers in the Bay Area... Not to mention the large Python gravity field a few hundred miles South emanating from Industrial Light and Magic. But don;t expect Google and Yahoo suck to be a popular compaint ;-) regards Steve -- Steve Holden +44 150 684 7255 +1 800 494 3119 Holden Web LLC http://www.holdenweb.com/ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python for Webscripting (like PHP)
Yes the stdlib offers all the basic functions, but why work so hard? Get CherryPy (http://www.cherrypy.org) and relax a bit. You'll be able to concentrate on Python for the backend, HTML for the frontend, without a lot of directory-diddling. Also, check out http://www-128.ibm.com/developerworks/opensource/library/os-cherrypy/index.html#main for a nice, fresh slice. Ron -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python for Webscripting (like PHP)
I like the look of cheeryPy - snyone know if its easy to get it running on top of Apache? Thanks On 19 Aug 2005 04:10:23 -0700, paron [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes the stdlib offers all the basic functions, but why work so hard? Get CherryPy (http://www.cherrypy.org) and relax a bit. You'll be able to concentrate on Python for the backend, HTML for the frontend, without a lot of directory-diddling. Also, check out http://www-128.ibm.com/developerworks/opensource/library/os-cherrypy/index.html#main for a nice, fresh slice. Ron -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python for Webscripting (like PHP)
'cherryPy' even On 8/19/05, Jon Hewer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I like the look of cheeryPy - snyone know if its easy to get it running on top of Apache? Thanks On 19 Aug 2005 04:10:23 -0700, paron [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes the stdlib offers all the basic functions, but why work so hard? Get CherryPy (http://www.cherrypy.org) and relax a bit. You'll be able to concentrate on Python for the backend, HTML for the frontend, without a lot of directory-diddling. Also, check out http://www-128.ibm.com/developerworks/opensource/library/os-cherrypy/index.html#main for a nice, fresh slice. Ron -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python for Webscripting (like PHP)
Yes, there's a tutorial about that -- there are several options depending on the URL structure you want to expose, and your version of Apache. None of them are torturous, though. Start at http://www.cherrypy.org/wiki/CherryPyProductionSetup and follow the links down. Ron -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python for Webscripting (like PHP)
Ah cool, thanks, i hadn't spotted that page :) On 19 Aug 2005 04:51:06 -0700, paron [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, there's a tutorial about that -- there are several options depending on the URL structure you want to expose, and your version of Apache. None of them are torturous, though. Start at http://www.cherrypy.org/wiki/CherryPyProductionSetup and follow the links down. Ron -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python jobs (was Re: Python for Webscripting (like PHP))
I'd love Python work, just like everyone else here. On a related topic, what's the policy/etiquette of posting a resume on here, or mentioning what kind of work you're looking for? And what's the policy in general for most newsgroups and mailing lists? -Greg On 8/19/05, Steve Holden [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Aahz wrote: In article [EMAIL PROTECTED] , Steve Holden [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:There's informal evidence that the Python secret is getting out. Sharpenup your resumes, guys, you may not have to limit Python to home usagesoon :-) OTOH, the big sucking sound from Google and Yahoo (plus other places like Ironport) is making it more difficult to hire Python programmers in the Bay Area...Not to mention the large Python gravity field a few hundred miles South emanating from Industrial Light and Magic.But don;t expect Google and Yahoo suck to be a popular compaint ;-)regardsSteve--Steve Holden +44 150 684 7255+1 800 494 3119 Holden Web LLC http://www.holdenweb.com/ --http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list -- Gregory PiñeroChief Innovation OfficerBlended Technologies(www.blendedtechnologies.com) -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python for Webscripting (like PHP)
Florian Lindner wrote: Hello, I've been using Python a lot for scripting (mainly scripts for server administration / DB access). All these scripts were shell based. Now I'm considering using Python (with mod_python on Apache 2) for a web project, just how I've used PHP in some smaller Projects before (?php print foo ?).. How suitable is Python for these kind of projects? What do think? Does the stdlib offers all basic functions for this kind of requirements? An email I got from Dan Richter. Since he has problems with his news/mail gateway I forward it with his permission for the benefit of others. Florian - - - Python is great for heavy lifting: when most of the work is done behind the scenes and outputting the HTML is relatively trivial. An example would be a program that searches archives or computes derivatives. But PHP is designed for web pages and is quite powerful. If you can reasonably do a job in PHP, you probably should. Web sites written in Python usually involve lots of statements like these: uri = os.environ['HTTP_URI'] print 'htmlheadtitle' + theTitle + '/title/head' print '''bodydiv h1The answer to your question/h1 pAfter lots of computing, here's what we discovered./p''' And so on. As you can see, PHP allows you to embed HTML much more gracefully, as well do other web-like things such as retrieve URL query string parameters more easily. So PHP is preferable for most web sites. Depending on what you want to do, you might also consider Perl and Java Servlets. - - - -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python for Webscripting (like PHP)
You might want to check out spyce. It uses a server page model (like jsp and php) so you can embed python in html. It has the standard stuff you would need for making a web site (session support, etc) and also contains features like custom tags. http://spyce.sourceforge.net/ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python jobs (was Re: Python for Webscripting (like PHP))
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], Erik Max Francis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Peter Decker wrote: Then start looking for telecommuting people. There are lots of us who can use work and have excellent telecommuting references, but who don't happen to live in a major metro area! And then there's some in the Bay Area who wouldn't mind telecommuting, either ... :-) We do a *lot* of telecommuting. I'm working from home today, for example, because I needed to deal with the plumber. And we have two people in Seattle out of seven fulltime people. However, it's our experience that people are more productive when they show up at the office regularly -- the two Seattle people had lots of experience with our product before they worked independently, and the two of them do share an office. (They work across the street from Elliott Bay Books, the bastards.) -- Aahz ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) * http://www.pythoncraft.com/ The way to build large Python applications is to componentize and loosely-couple the hell out of everything. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python jobs (was Re: Python for Webscripting (like PHP))
Gregory Piñero [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] I'd love Python work, just like everyone else here. On a related topic, what's the policy/etiquette of posting a resume on here, or mentioning what kind of work you're looking for? I would take absence of such postings, even though you can imagine *lots* of people have had the same idea, as an indication that it is against policy/etiquette. If 1 person does it, we could easily have 10 or 100 a day ;-). And what's the policy in general for most newsgroups and mailing lists? For mainline newsgroups, such as the comp.*, commercial annoucements are generally counter-indicated unless the name (.marketplace) or charter say otherwise. Exceptions would be a low volume of things of direct and narrow interest. So I consider the rare job announcements posted here ok. The same for book announcements. In either case, such are positive news for what is still a minority, just becoming mainstream, language. Terry J. Reedy -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Python for Webscripting (like PHP)
Hello, I've been using Python a lot for scripting (mainly scripts for server administration / DB access). All these scripts were shell based. Now I'm considering using Python (with mod_python on Apache 2) for a web project, just how I've used PHP in some smaller Projects before (?php print foo ?).. How suitable is Python for these kind of projects? What do think? Does the stdlib offers all basic functions for this kind of requirements? Thanks, Florian -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python for Webscripting (like PHP)
Florian Lindner ha scritto: Hello, I've been using Python a lot for scripting (mainly scripts for server administration / DB access). All these scripts were shell based. Now I'm considering using Python (with mod_python on Apache 2) for a web project, just how I've used PHP in some smaller Projects before (?php print foo ?).. How suitable is Python for these kind of projects? What do think? Does the stdlib offers all basic functions for this kind of requirements? You can use the Python Server Pages, that are analogous to ASP, PHP and JSP. http://www.webwareforpython.org/ http://www.webwareforpython.org/Webware/PSP/Docs/index.html -- http://robiweb90.blogspot.com robiweb90 [at] gmail [dot] com Nessuno può fabbricare una macchina tanto intelligente che possa essere usata da uno sciocco - Confucio -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python for Webscripting (like PHP)
I don't think stdlib offers anything like that The problem with python is it's white space sensible and html is not. However there are some nice solutions: http://www.webwareforpython.org/Papers/Templates/ my favourite is not listed here: http://karrigell.sourceforge.net/ For web development with python i'd rather recommend a complete webframework: http://www.djangoproject.com/ http://subway.python-hosting.com/ http://www.zope.org/ nszabolcs -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python for Webscripting (like PHP)
Florian Lindner wrote: How suitable is Python for these kind of projects? What do think? Does the stdlib offers all basic functions for this kind of requirements? Python is extremely well suited for the web-app development and the STDLib supply most of what you need for this task. As a matter of fact, the easy development of web applications was one of the main focuses of the Python community since Rel 1.0. Thanks to the hard work of its supporters, Python is now widely considered one of the best tool you can use for developing web applications, even better than PHP. Have a look at these chapters of the official Python documentation to get convinced of what I'm saying: Chap. 11: Internet Protocols and Support Chap. 12: Internet Data Handling Chap. 13: Structured Mark-Up Languages Processing (Python has even been told to be used by Yahoo! and Google, among others, but nobody was able to demonstrate this, so far) Despite this, keep in mind that developing a _real_world_ web application without the right tools (session management and templating, in particular) is quite hard, no matter which language you use (even with PHP). Have a look at the many web frameworks mentioned at http://www.python.org/ and at http://www.vex.net/parnassus/ and choose the one you feel best suited for your task. Among these web framework, a couple of them deserve a particular attention: Maki is a XML based framework, very similar to the java-based Cocoon: http://maki.sourceforge.net/ http://cocoon.apache.org/ Albatross is aimed to stateful applications: http://www.object-craft.com.au/projects/albatross/ Regarding the template engine, the best one I'm aware of is Cheetah: http://www.cheetahtemplate.org/ A last word: beware of PSP (Python Server Pages). If used in the wrong way, this tool (like the original Java Server Pages) can make a real mess of your code (because of the inextricable tangle of Python and HTML code you can create). CU --- Alessandro Bottoni -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python for Webscripting (like PHP)
Mod_python has a PSP (python server pages - ala php) implementation. However it's still not mature enough and, imho, it has a serious drawback in its way to handle indentation. But this is just the first release and I hope it will improve in the near future. My favorite is Karrigell ( http://karrigell.sourceforge.net ). It is a pleasure to work with, minimalistic, simple and to the point. No template language needed, just regular python and html and, as far as I know, mod_python integration is uderway. Hope it helps... Luis -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python for Webscripting (like PHP)
Alessandro Bottoni [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (Python has even been told to be used by Yahoo! and Google, among others, but nobody was able to demonstrate this, so far) ? Google and Microsoft and Nokia had talks during PyCon 2005. If you look at the GMAIL help system you would see that all the links in there end in .py. Blogger is almost completely built with python. Google is also one of the members of the PSF. What should be demonstrated? -- Valentino Volonghi aka Dialtone Now Running MacOSX 10.4 Blog: http://vvolonghi.blogspot.com http://weever.berlios.de -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python for Webscripting (like PHP)
Alessandro Bottoni wrote: (Python has even been told to be used by Yahoo! and Google, among others, but nobody was able to demonstrate this, so far) Nobody, except Google's founders? http://www-db.stanford.edu/~backrub/google.html (Among many other references.) -Peter -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python for Webscripting (like PHP)
Peter Hansen wrote: Alessandro Bottoni wrote: (Python has even been told to be used by Yahoo! and Google, among others, but nobody was able to demonstrate this, so far) Nobody, except Google's founders? http://www-db.stanford.edu/~backrub/google.html (Among many other references.) -Peter Plus, may I remind the world, PyCon DC 2005 had a keynote by far-from obscure Python supporter Greg Stein, an engineering manager at Google, giving a talk entitled Python at Google. There's informal evidence that the Python secret is getting out. Sharpen up your resumes, guys, you may not have to limit Python to home usage soon :-) regards Steve -- Steve Holden +44 150 684 7255 +1 800 494 3119 Holden Web LLC http://www.holdenweb.com/ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python for Webscripting (like PHP)
Alessandro Bottoni wrote: (Python has even been told to be used by Yahoo! and Google, among others, but nobody was able to demonstrate this, so far) If you use Yahoo! Maps, you will notice they use Python. Scott -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Python jobs (was Re: Python for Webscripting (like PHP))
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], Steve Holden [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There's informal evidence that the Python secret is getting out. Sharpen up your resumes, guys, you may not have to limit Python to home usage soon :-) OTOH, the big sucking sound from Google and Yahoo (plus other places like Ironport) is making it more difficult to hire Python programmers in the Bay Area... -- Aahz ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) * http://www.pythoncraft.com/ The way to build large Python applications is to componentize and loosely-couple the hell out of everything. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python for Webscripting (like PHP)
Peter Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Alessandro Bottoni wrote: (Python has even been told to be used by Yahoo! and Google, among others, but nobody was able to demonstrate this, so far) Nobody, except Google's founders? http://www-db.stanford.edu/~backrub/google.html I think the relevant paragraph is worth quoting here (s added): In order to scale to hundreds of millions of web pages, Google has a fast distributed crawling system. A single URLserver serves lists of URLs to a number of crawlers (we typically ran about 3). Both the URLserver and the crawlers are implemented in **Python**. Each crawler keeps roughly 300 connections open at once. This is necessary to retrieve web pages at a fast enough pace. At peak speeds, the system can crawl over 100 web pages per second using four crawlers. This amounts to roughly 600K per second of data. A major performance stress is DNS lookup. Each crawler maintains a its own DNS cache so it does not need to do a DNS lookup before crawling each document. Each of the hundreds of connections can be in a number of different states: looking up DNS, connecting to host, sending request, and receiving response. These factors make the crawler a complex component of the system. It uses asynchronous IO to manage events, and a number of queues to move page fetches from state to state. This seems to have been about 2000. Of course, bottleneck code may have been rewritten in C, but Google continues to hire Python programmers (among others). Terry J. Reedy -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python jobs (was Re: Python for Webscripting (like PHP))
On 18 Aug 2005 10:58:46 -0700, Aahz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: OTOH, the big sucking sound from Google and Yahoo (plus other places like Ironport) is making it more difficult to hire Python programmers in the Bay Area... Then start looking for telecommuting people. There are lots of us who can use work and have excellent telecommuting references, but who don't happen to live in a major metro area! -- # p.d. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python jobs (was Re: Python for Webscripting (like PHP))
Peter Decker wrote: Then start looking for telecommuting people. There are lots of us who can use work and have excellent telecommuting references, but who don't happen to live in a major metro area! And then there's some in the Bay Area who wouldn't mind telecommuting, either ... :-) -- Erik Max Francis [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.alcyone.com/max/ San Jose, CA, USA 37 20 N 121 53 W AIM erikmaxfrancis There is no present or future; only the past, happening over and over again, now. -- Eugene O'Neill -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
