Re: Python slang

On Wed, Aug 10, 2016, at 12:19, Random832 wrote: > On Wed, Aug 10, 2016, at 07:59, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote: > > The use of = also has a long history... FORTRAN (where the > > comparison was .EQ.), BASIC (granted, K required assignment to > > start with the keyword LET, so the use of =

Re: Python slang

On Wed, Aug 10, 2016, at 19:57, Michael Torrie wrote: > But the grammar must still be a bit complex as sometimes the LHS of the > = is an expression, as well as the RHS. The only place that an *arbitrary* expression (including e.g. = as equality) can appear in the LHS is inside parentheses,

Re: Python slang

Lawrence D’Oliveiro : > On Thursday, August 11, 2016 at 7:18:28 AM UTC+12, Marko Rauhamaa wrote: > >> Oh, there's of course COBOL: >> >>ADD X TO Y GIVING RESULT > > I think COBOL has the same usage of “=” as BASIC, as assignment or > equality comparison, depending on

Re: Python slang

On Thursday, August 11, 2016 at 7:18:28 AM UTC+12, Marko Rauhamaa wrote: > Oh, there's of course COBOL: > >ADD X TO Y GIVING RESULT I think COBOL has the same usage of “=” as BASIC, as assignment or equality comparison, depending on context. --

Re: Python slang

On 08/10/2016 05:57 PM, Michael Torrie wrote: > On 08/10/2016 10:19 AM, Random832 wrote: >> On Wed, Aug 10, 2016, at 07:59, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote: >>> The use of = also has a long history... FORTRAN (where the comparison >>> was .EQ.), BASIC (granted, K required assignment to start with the

Re: Python slang

On 08/10/2016 10:19 AM, Random832 wrote: > On Wed, Aug 10, 2016, at 07:59, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote: >> The use of = also has a long history... FORTRAN (where the comparison >> was .EQ.), BASIC (granted, K required assignment to start with the >> keyword LET, so the use of = was mainly a

Re: Python slang

On Aug 10, 2016 4:36 PM, "Lawrence D’Oliveiro" wrote: On Thursday, August 11, 2016 at 5:35:03 AM UTC+12, Rustom Mody wrote: > On Wednesday, August 10, 2016 at 9:31:40 PM UTC+5:30, Anders J. Munch wrote: > Python’s inspiration and origin is ABC > Whose assignment looked

Re: Python slang

On Thursday, August 11, 2016 at 4:01:40 AM UTC+12, Anders J. Munch wrote: > Lawrence D’Oliveiro: >> >>> [...] as much like C++ as possible. >> >> Nevertheless, Python copied the C misfeature [...] > > You segued a little too easily from C++ to C. Because C++ copied that same C misfeature. --

Re: Python slang

On Thursday, August 11, 2016 at 5:35:03 AM UTC+12, Rustom Mody wrote: > On Wednesday, August 10, 2016 at 9:31:40 PM UTC+5:30, Anders J. Munch wrote: > Python’s inspiration and origin is ABC > Whose assignment looked like > PUT expr INTO var HyperTalk did that in 1987. Is that where GvR got the

Re: Python slang

On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 5:18 AM, Marko Rauhamaa wrote: > Rustom Mody : > >> On Wednesday, August 10, 2016 at 9:31:40 PM UTC+5:30, Anders J. Munch wrote: >> Python’s inspiration and origin is ABC >> Whose assignment looked like >> PUT expr INTO var >> >>

Re: Python slang

Rustom Mody : > On Wednesday, August 10, 2016 at 9:31:40 PM UTC+5:30, Anders J. Munch wrote: > Python’s inspiration and origin is ABC > Whose assignment looked like > PUT expr INTO var > > This has the salutary effect > - Of being l-to-r (the only other such case I know is

Re: Python slang

On Wednesday, August 10, 2016 at 9:31:40 PM UTC+5:30, Anders J. Munch wrote: > Lawrence D’Oliveiro: > >> [...] as much like C++ as > >> possible. > > > > Nevertheless, Python copied the C misfeature [...] > > You segued a little too easily from C++ to C. When talking language > evolution and

Re: Python slang

On Wed, Aug 10, 2016, at 07:59, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote: > The use of = also has a long history... FORTRAN (where the comparison > was .EQ.), BASIC (granted, K required assignment to start with the > keyword LET, so the use of = was mainly a delimiter between target and > expression being

Re: Python slang

Lawrence D’Oliveiro: >> [...] as much like C++ as >> possible. > > Nevertheless, Python copied the C misfeature [...] You segued a little too easily from C++ to C. When talking language evolution and inspirations, they are entirely different things. - Anders --

Re: Python slang

On Monday, August 8, 2016 at 9:02:15 PM UTC+12, Anders J. Munch wrote: > It was only later that language designers fell into the notion that it > was crucial for a new language's success to look as much like C++ as > possible. Nevertheless, Python copied the C misfeature of using “=” for

Re: Python slang

On 6 August 2016 at 23:33, Ian Kelly wrote: > On Aug 6, 2016 2:10 PM, "Marco Sulla via Python-list" < > python-list@python.org> wrote: > > > Yes, I was thinking manly to SQL. That furthermore is NOT a > programming language. > > > Why not? It's claimed to be Turing

Re: Python slang

On 2016-08-06, Chris Angelico wrote: > On Sun, Aug 7, 2016 at 5:37 AM, Bernd Nawothnig > wrote: >>> But SQL's NULL is a cross between C's NULL, IEEE's NaN, Cthulhu, and >>> Emrakul. >> >> SQL NULL has the semantic of "unknown". So if one or both operands of >> a

Re: Python slang

Marco Sulla via Python-list: > Well, they are the most used languages. They weren't when Python was created. Python's terms raise/except and self were normal for the time. C++ was the odd one out. throw/catch and this are Stroustrup's inventions, no other language used those terms. It was

Re: Me, myself and I [was Re: Python slang]

On Sun, Aug 7, 2016 at 1:22 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > But using it in place of "me"? I don't think so. > > "The research was done by myself." > "He punched myself in the head." > > I wouldn't say it is *wrong*, just inelegant and rather pretentious. I'm sure

Me, myself and I [was Re: Python slang]

On Sun, 7 Aug 2016 07:33 am, Michael Torrie wrote: > On 08/05/2016 07:14 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: >> In English, we refer to ourselves in the first person as I, me, myself, >> and sometimes "self", never as "this". One can say "this one has a hat", >> for example, but it sounds weird, like

Re: Python slang

On 08/06/2016 08:27 PM, Clayton Kirkwood wrote: > You can always tell the correctness by removing the other person. If it > doesn't sound right then, then it is wrong. You don't say 'I gave to I', or > 'I gave to me', it is 'I gave to myself'. Yup good point, and I failed at that obviously.

Re: Python slang

On Sun, Aug 7, 2016 at 12:32 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > By "atomic type", I mean a class which "feels" like it is a primitive, > low-level structure rather than an object with attributes, for example: > > - builtins int, float, str, bytes, dict, list, tuple, set,

Re: Python slang

On Sunday, August 7, 2016 at 1:25:43 AM UTC+5:30, Marco Sulla wrote: > On 6 August 2016 at 02:13, Chris Angelico wrote: > > On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 9:21 AM, Marco Sulla wrote: > >> I want to clarify that when I say "different from the other > >> languages", I mean "different from the most used

Re: Python slang

On Sun, 7 Aug 2016 04:33 am, Terry Reedy wrote: > On 8/6/2016 2:30 AM, Michael Selik wrote: > >> When people ask me why the core classes are lowercased, > > Int, float, list, dict, etc were once functions that return objects of > type 'int', 'float', 'list', 'dict', etc, before they became

RE: Python slang

dblessthe...@python.org] On Behalf Of Gregory Ewing > Sent: Saturday, August 06, 2016 6:17 PM > To: python-list@python.org > Subject: Re: Python slang > > Ian Kelly wrote: > > (not grammar, since "myself" is grammatically correct) > > Not sure about that. "My

Re: Python slang

Ian Kelly wrote: (not grammar, since "myself" is grammatically correct) Not sure about that. "Myself" is a reflexive pronoun, used when the subject and object of a verb are the same. So "I did this research by myself" is correct. But if Bob is involved, the subject and object are different, so

Re: Python slang

On 2016-08-06, Michael Torrie wrote: > Sadly it has become an epidemic of late for folks to misuse the > word, "myself." I think it comes from people not wanting to sound > presumptuous when referring to themselves. It drives me crazy to > hear so many people say something

Re: Python slang

On Aug 6, 2016 3:36 PM, "Michael Torrie" wrote: Sadly it has become an epidemic of late for folks to misuse the word, "myself." I think it comes from people not wanting to sound presumptuous when referring to themselves. It drives me crazy to hear so many people say

Re: Python slang

On Sun, Aug 7, 2016 at 7:33 AM, Michael Torrie wrote: > Sadly it has become an epidemic of late for folks to misuse the word, > "myself." I think it comes from people not wanting to sound > presumptuous when referring to themselves. It drives me crazy to hear > so many people

Re: Python slang

On Aug 6, 2016 2:10 PM, "Marco Sulla via Python-list" < python-list@python.org> wrote: Yes, I was thinking manly to SQL. That furthermore is NOT a programming language. Why not? It's claimed to be Turing complete. http://beza1e1.tuxen.de/articles/accidentally_turing_complete.html --

Re: Python slang

On 08/05/2016 07:14 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > In English, we refer to ourselves in the first person as I, me, myself, and > sometimes "self", never as "this". One can say "this one has a hat", for > example, but it sounds weird, like something the Borg would say about a > specific Borg unit.

Re: Python slang

On Sun, Aug 7, 2016 at 5:37 AM, Bernd Nawothnig wrote: >> But SQL's NULL is a cross between C's NULL, IEEE's NaN, Cthulhu, and >> Emrakul. > > SQL NULL has the semantic of "unknown". So if one or both operands of > a comparison (or any other operation) are unknown the

Re: Python slang

On 6 August 2016 at 03:35, Chris Angelico wrote: > On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 11:14 AM, Steven D'Aprano > wrote: >>> I don't ask about `None` instead of `null` because I suppose here it's >>> a matter of disambiguation (null, in many languages, is not

Re: Python slang

On 6 August 2016 at 03:14, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > On Sat, 6 Aug 2016 08:00 am, Marco Sulla wrote: >> I'm referring to: >> * `except` instead of `catch` > > Because this isn't a game of "catch the ball". They're called "exceptions", > not "catchions". You *try*

Re: Python slang

On 6 August 2016 at 02:13, Chris Angelico wrote: > On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 9:21 AM, Marco Sulla > wrote: >> I want to clarify that when I say "different from the other >> languages", I mean "different from the most used languages", that in

Re: Python slang

On 6 August 2016 at 20:03, Michael Selik wrote: > On Sat, Aug 6, 2016, 10:10 AM Marco Sulla via Python-list > wrote: >> >> On 6 August 2016 at 00:31, Chris Angelico wrote: >> > "map" has many other meanings (most notably the

Re: Python slang

On 2016-08-06, Chris Angelico wrote: > On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 11:14 AM, Steven D'Aprano > wrote: >>> I don't ask about `None` instead of `null` because I suppose here it's >>> a matter of disambiguation (null, in many languages, is not equal to >>> null). >> >> Really?

Re: Python slang

On Sun, Aug 7, 2016 at 5:17 AM, Marco Sulla wrote: > > Nope, I was thinking that "map()" should be a method of an iterable. > But this is another topic :) The problem with that is that it has to become a method of _every_ iterable type, which means it becomes part of

Re: Python slang

On 8/6/2016 2:30 AM, Michael Selik wrote: When people ask me why the core classes are lowercased, Int, float, list, dict, etc were once functions that return objects of type 'int', 'float', 'list', 'dict', etc, before they became 'new-style classes', which are not just 'classes'. The

Re: Python slang

On Sat, Aug 6, 2016, 10:10 AM Marco Sulla via Python-list < python-list@python.org> wrote: > On 6 August 2016 at 00:31, Chris Angelico wrote: > > On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 8:00 AM, Marco Sulla via Python-list > > wrote: > >> * `dict` instead of `map` > > >

Re: Python slang

On 6 August 2016 at 00:31, Chris Angelico wrote: > On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 8:00 AM, Marco Sulla via Python-list > wrote: > This isn't slang; it's jargon Right. >> * `raise` instead of `throw` > > Quite a few other languages talk about raising

Re: Python slang

On 06/08/2016 04:10, Steven D'Aprano wrote: On Sat, 6 Aug 2016 10:13 am, Chris Angelico wrote: On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 9:21 AM, Marco Sulla wrote: I want to clarify that when I say "different from the other languages", I mean "different from the most

Re: Python slang

On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 2:10 AM, Chris Angelico wrote: > That answers the question about True and False, but not about None, > which started the question. Why are instances capitalized here? Is it > simply a matter of grandfathering in, with no specific decision? Using CamelCase

Re: Python slang

On Fri, Aug 5, 2016 at 10:12 PM Chris Angelico wrote: > That answers the question about True and False, but not about None, > which started the question. Why are instances capitalized here? Is it > simply a matter of grandfathering in, with no specific decision? > When people

Re: Python slang

On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 1:10 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > It amuses me when people know a handful of languages, all clearly derived > from each other, and think that's "most" languages. That's like somebody > who knows Dutch, Afrikaans and German[1] being surprised that

Re: Python slang

On 8/5/2016 6:00 PM, Marco Sulla via Python-list wrote: I have a simple curiosity: why Python has much keywords, and some builtin types and methods, that are different from the other languages? What is the rationale? I'm referring to: * `except` instead of `catch` Python partly takes its cue

Re: Python slang

On Sat, 6 Aug 2016 10:13 am, Chris Angelico wrote: > On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 9:21 AM, Marco Sulla > wrote: >> I want to clarify that when I say "different from the other >> languages", I mean "different from the most used languages", that in >> my mind are

Re: Python slang

On Saturday, August 6, 2016 at 8:16:36 AM UTC+5:30, Random832 wrote: > On Fri, Aug 5, 2016, at 20:14, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote: > > .push() tends to make this one think "stack" and not general purpose > > list. > > It's a bit unusual to have .pop() without a matching .push(). True… OTOH I

Re: Python slang

On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 12:46 PM, Random832 wrote: > On Fri, Aug 5, 2016, at 20:14, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote: >> .push() tends to make this one think "stack" and not general purpose >> list. > > It's a bit unusual to have .pop() without a matching .push().

Re: Python slang

On Fri, Aug 5, 2016, at 20:14, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote: > .push() tends to make this one think "stack" and not general purpose > list. It's a bit unusual to have .pop() without a matching .push(). -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Python slang

On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 11:55 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: >>> * `True`, `False` and None instead of `true`, `false` and `none` (they >>> seems classes) >> >> This one, I've no idea about. Why have "bool" as the type, and "True" >> and "False" as the instances? I think

Re: Python slang

On Sat, 6 Aug 2016 08:31 am, Chris Angelico wrote: > On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 8:00 AM, Marco Sulla via Python-list > wrote: [...] >> I'm referring to: >> * `except` instead of `catch` > > Not sure. Python does seem to be roughly unique in this. Delphi does uses the same

Re: Python slang

On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 11:14 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: >> I don't ask about `None` instead of `null` because I suppose here it's >> a matter of disambiguation (null, in many languages, is not equal to >> null). > > Really? Which languages? That's not true in Pascal,

Re: Python slang

On Sat, 6 Aug 2016 08:00 am, Marco Sulla wrote: > I have a simple curiosity: why Python has much keywords, and some > builtin types and methods, that are different from the other > languages? What is the rationale? You should ask those other languages. Which languages do you have in mind? >

Re: Python slang

On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 9:21 AM, Marco Sulla wrote: > I want to clarify that when I say "different from the other > languages", I mean "different from the most used languages", that in > my mind are C/C++, C#, Java, PHP and Javascript, mainly. > Ah, well,

Re: Python slang

On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 8:00 AM, Marco Sulla via Python-list wrote: > I have a simple curiosity: why Python has much keywords, and some > builtin types and methods, that are different from the other > languages? What is the rationale? This isn't slang; it's jargon,