Re: PEP 526 - var annotations and the spirit of python

2018-09-06 Thread Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer
hey, greetings, how did you come across this thread? Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer https://github.com/Abdur-rahmaanJ Mauritius -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: PEP 526 - var annotations and the spirit of python

2018-09-06 Thread sjatkins
On Sunday, July 1, 2018 at 10:06:49 AM UTC-7, Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer wrote: > was viewing pep526, so, finally, python cannot do without hinting the type > as other languages? > will python finally move to > int x = 3 where int is a pre annotation? > > i am not arguing it's usefulness but

Re: PEP 526 - var annotations and the spirit of python

2018-07-17 Thread Peter J. Holzer
On 2018-07-15 08:37:05 +0200, Christian Gollwitzer wrote: > Am 05.07.18 um 12:04 schrieb Steven D'Aprano: > > On Thu, 05 Jul 2018 09:17:20 +0200, Christian Gollwitzer wrote: > > But... it compiles? Seriously? [...] > > Sometimes I wonder how C programmers manage to write a bug-free "Hello > >

Re: PEP 526 - var annotations and the spirit of python

2018-07-15 Thread Christian Gollwitzer
Am 05.07.18 um 12:04 schrieb Steven D'Aprano: On Thu, 05 Jul 2018 09:17:20 +0200, Christian Gollwitzer wrote: Am 04.07.18 um 17:31 schrieb Steven D'Aprano: On Wed, 04 Jul 2018 13:48:26 +0100, Bart wrote: Presumably one type hint applies for the whole scope of the variable, not just the one

Re: PEP 526 - var annotations and the spirit of python

2018-07-06 Thread Steven D'Aprano
On Fri, 06 Jul 2018 09:42:09 +0200, Antoon Pardon wrote: > On 06-07-18 08:17, Steven D'Aprano wrote: >> On Thu, 05 Jul 2018 16:09:52 +0200, Antoon Pardon wrote: >> This is not an innovation of Mypy. It's how type inference is supposed to work. If a particular type checker doesn't do

Re: PEP 526 - var annotations and the spirit of python

2018-07-06 Thread Antoon Pardon
On 06-07-18 08:17, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > On Thu, 05 Jul 2018 16:09:52 +0200, Antoon Pardon wrote: > >>> This is not an innovation of Mypy. It's how type inference is supposed >>> to work. If a particular type checker doesn't do that, it is doing it >>> wrong. >> That is how type interference

Re: PEP 526 - var annotations and the spirit of python

2018-07-06 Thread Steven D'Aprano
On Thu, 05 Jul 2018 16:09:52 +0200, Antoon Pardon wrote: >> This is not an innovation of Mypy. It's how type inference is supposed >> to work. If a particular type checker doesn't do that, it is doing it >> wrong. > > That is how type interference works in languages that have some kind of >

RE: PEP 526 - var annotations and the spirit of python

2018-07-05 Thread Schachner, Joseph
on-list@python.org Subject: Re: PEP 526 - var annotations and the spirit of python On Wed, 04 Jul 2018 13:48:26 +0100, Bart wrote: > Presumably one type hint applies for the whole scope of the variable, > not just the one assignment. You know how in C you can write int x = 1;

Re: PEP 526 - var annotations and the spirit of python

2018-07-05 Thread Antoon Pardon
On 05-07-18 15:07, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > On Thu, 05 Jul 2018 13:54:28 +0200, Antoon Pardon wrote: > >> On 05-07-18 11:59, Steven D'Aprano wrote: >>> On Thu, 05 Jul 2018 17:34:55 +1200, Gregory Ewing wrote: >>> >>> > Indeed, that's often the best way, except for the redundant type >

Re: PEP 526 - var annotations and the spirit of python

2018-07-05 Thread Steven D'Aprano
On Thu, 05 Jul 2018 13:54:28 +0200, Antoon Pardon wrote: > On 05-07-18 11:59, Steven D'Aprano wrote: >> On Thu, 05 Jul 2018 17:34:55 +1200, Gregory Ewing wrote: >> >> Indeed, that's often the best way, except for the redundant type hint, which makes you That Guy: x: int =

Re: PEP 526 - var annotations and the spirit of python

2018-07-05 Thread Bart
On 05/07/2018 11:04, Steven D'Aprano wrote: On Thu, 05 Jul 2018 09:17:20 +0200, Christian Gollwitzer wrote: Not sure what point you are trying to make, but your example compiles in C, if you replace the '#' comment sign with '//'. Sometimes I wonder how C programmers manage to write a

Re: PEP 526 - var annotations and the spirit of python

2018-07-05 Thread Mark Lawrence
On 05/07/18 11:26, Bart wrote: And at numerous other languages that are properly statically typed (Ada being one of the most rigorous, while C++ is a nightmare). I had to chuckle at that as friends of mine have had great fun rewriting Ada in C++ as it was just too damn slow. This was

Re: PEP 526 - var annotations and the spirit of python

2018-07-05 Thread Antoon Pardon
On 05-07-18 11:59, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > On Thu, 05 Jul 2018 17:34:55 +1200, Gregory Ewing wrote: > > >>> Indeed, that's often the best way, except for the redundant type hint, >>> which makes you That Guy: >>> >>> x: int = 0 # set x to the int 0 >> But you've shown in an earlier example

Re: PEP 526 - var annotations and the spirit of python

2018-07-05 Thread Bart
On 05/07/2018 10:59, Steven D'Aprano wrote: But it is redundant in *that* example. Your hint is not giving any more information that what the reader, or type checker, can already infer. These are useful: x: Any = 3 # x can be anything, but is currently an int x: int = None # x can

Re: PEP 526 - var annotations and the spirit of python

2018-07-05 Thread Steven D'Aprano
On Thu, 05 Jul 2018 09:17:20 +0200, Christian Gollwitzer wrote: > Am 04.07.18 um 17:31 schrieb Steven D'Aprano: >> On Wed, 04 Jul 2018 13:48:26 +0100, Bart wrote: >> >>> Presumably one type hint applies for the whole scope of the variable, >>> not just the one assignment. >> >> You know how in

Re: PEP 526 - var annotations and the spirit of python

2018-07-05 Thread Steven D'Aprano
On Thu, 05 Jul 2018 17:34:55 +1200, Gregory Ewing wrote: > Steven D'Aprano wrote: > >> but the type checker should infer that if you assign None to a variable >> which is declared int, you must have meant Optional[int] rather than >> just int. > > This seems to be equivalent to saying that

Re: PEP 526 - var annotations and the spirit of python

2018-07-05 Thread Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer
he means too much of it Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer https://github.com/Abdur-rahmaanJ Well you always mention how like english the if-expression in python is and > thus by implication readable. > > -- > Antoon. > > -- > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list > --

Re: PEP 526 - var annotations and the spirit of python

2018-07-05 Thread Antoon Pardon
On 05-07-18 08:58, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > >> Optimize for readability, not writability. > And that is why we all hold COBOL up as the paragon of excellence for a > programming language! *wink* > > Or if you don't like COBOL, how about Hypertalk? Well you always mention how like english the

Re: PEP 526 - var annotations and the spirit of python

2018-07-05 Thread Christian Gollwitzer
Am 04.07.18 um 17:31 schrieb Steven D'Aprano: On Wed, 04 Jul 2018 13:48:26 +0100, Bart wrote: Presumably one type hint applies for the whole scope of the variable, not just the one assignment. You know how in C you can write int x = 1; # the type applies for just this one assignment

Re: PEP 526 - var annotations and the spirit of python

2018-07-05 Thread Chris Angelico
On Thu, Jul 5, 2018 at 4:58 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: >> Optimize for readability, not writability. > > And that is why we all hold COBOL up as the paragon of excellence for a > programming language! *wink* > > Or if you don't like COBOL, how about Hypertalk? > > put 42 into x > ask file "Which

Re: PEP 526 - var annotations and the spirit of python

2018-07-05 Thread Steven D'Aprano
On Wed, 04 Jul 2018 13:26:03 -0600, Ian Kelly wrote: [...] >> Note that None is a special case (because sometimes special cases *are* >> special enough to break the rules). > > > I don't think this case is special enough. As a person coming along > later and trying to read the code, I should be

Re: PEP 526 - var annotations and the spirit of python

2018-07-05 Thread Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer
*you know x should still an int after these two statements, because the type hint says so. Without it:x = 3x = f(x)x could be anything.* *...* *If something is an int, then make it an int:x: int = 0* i'm not arguing about it being useful or not but rather people turn to python to

Re: PEP 526 - var annotations and the spirit of python

2018-07-04 Thread Gregory Ewing
Steven D'Aprano wrote: but the type checker should infer that if you assign None to a variable which is declared int, you must have meant Optional[int] rather than just int. This seems to be equivalent to saying that *all* types are Optional, in which case what point is there in having

Re: PEP 526 - var annotations and the spirit of python

2018-07-04 Thread Steven D'Aprano
On Wed, 04 Jul 2018 19:57:12 +0100, Bart wrote: > On 04/07/2018 16:31, Steven D'Aprano wrote: >> On Wed, 04 Jul 2018 13:48:26 +0100, Bart wrote: > >> Of course the type (whether inferred or annotated) applies for the >> entire scope of that variable. >> >> > In that case I don't understand

Re: PEP 526 - var annotations and the spirit of python

2018-07-04 Thread Ian Kelly
On Wed, Jul 4, 2018, 9:36 AM Steven D'Aprano < steve+comp.lang.pyt...@pearwood.info> wrote: > On Wed, 04 Jul 2018 13:48:26 +0100, Bart wrote: > >> A better example would be: > >> > >> x: int = None > >> > >> which ought to be read as "x is an int, or None, and it's currently > >> None". > >

Re: PEP 526 - var annotations and the spirit of python

2018-07-04 Thread Bart
On 04/07/2018 16:31, Steven D'Aprano wrote: On Wed, 04 Jul 2018 13:48:26 +0100, Bart wrote: Of course the type (whether inferred or annotated) applies for the entire scope of that variable. In that case I don't understand what you're complaining about. You say that hinting is not needed

Re: PEP 526 - var annotations and the spirit of python

2018-07-04 Thread Steven D'Aprano
On Wed, 04 Jul 2018 13:48:26 +0100, Bart wrote: > Presumably one type hint applies for the whole scope of the variable, > not just the one assignment. You know how in C you can write int x = 1; # the type applies for just this one assignment x = 2.5;# perfectly legal, right?

Re: PEP 526 - var annotations and the spirit of python

2018-07-04 Thread Mark Lawrence
On 04/07/18 05:55, Jim Lee wrote: On 07/03/18 21:25, Ben Finney wrote: Jim Lee writes: On 07/03/18 19:58, Ben Finney via Python-list wrote: Jim Lee writes: If you were to say John had 2 apples, Jane had 4 apples, and Joe had an indefinite number of apples, how many numbers are we

Re: PEP 526 - var annotations and the spirit of python

2018-07-04 Thread Bart
On 04/07/2018 06:52, Steven D'Aprano wrote: On Sun, 01 Jul 2018 17:22:43 -0500, Tim Daneliuk wrote: x: int = 3 [...] This strikes me as syntactic noise. Python is dynamically typed and will remain so. Why clutter the language - even optionally - with stuff like this? There's no need to

Re: PEP 526 - var annotations and the spirit of python

2018-07-04 Thread Gregory Ewing
Ben Finney wrote: Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer writes: […] *cut at this point* Ooh, I like that last step! How do we make that happen on demand? You mention that Nazis ate fish. -- Greg -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: PEP 526 - var annotations and the spirit of python

2018-07-04 Thread Gregory Ewing
Grant Edwards wrote: On 2018-07-03, Dan Stromberg wrote: I used to write useful programs that ran in 256 bytes of RAM. Me too. The hex monitor I wrote for the keypad/display on my first computer fitted in 256 bytes. Which was important, seeing as the whole machine only had 1.5k. -- Greg

Re: Infinity [was Re: PEP 526 - var annotations and the spirit of python]

2018-07-04 Thread Chris Angelico
On Wed, Jul 4, 2018 at 3:37 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > On Wed, 04 Jul 2018 12:31:16 +1000, Chris Angelico wrote: > > [...] >>> Ah, I see we're not going to leave it alone. In that case, >>> "indefinite" >>> is a "number", in that it was a quantity you cited along with the other >>> two. If

Re: PEP 526 - var annotations and the spirit of python

2018-07-04 Thread Steven D'Aprano
On Tue, 03 Jul 2018 19:28:43 -0700, Jim Lee wrote: > On 07/03/18 16:51, Steven D'Aprano wrote: >> >> I love watching pedantically precise people panic and dig themselves >> into a hole. Since I'm an extremely pedantic person myself, I can >> recognise it in others -- especially when they're not

Re: PEP 526 - var annotations and the spirit of python

2018-07-03 Thread Steven D'Aprano
On Sun, 01 Jul 2018 17:22:43 -0500, Tim Daneliuk wrote: >> x: int = 3 [...] > This strikes me as syntactic noise. Python is dynamically typed and > will remain so. Why clutter the language - even optionally - with stuff > like this? There's no need to declare x:int = 3 since any linter worth

Infinity [was Re: PEP 526 - var annotations and the spirit of python]

2018-07-03 Thread Steven D'Aprano
On Wed, 04 Jul 2018 12:31:16 +1000, Chris Angelico wrote: [...] >> Ah, I see we're not going to leave it alone. In that case, >> "indefinite" >> is a "number", in that it was a quantity you cited along with the other >> two. If you'd prefer to call it a "quantity", that's fine with me. >> Talk

Re: PEP 526 - var annotations and the spirit of python

2018-07-03 Thread Jim Lee
On 07/03/18 22:03, Ben Finney wrote: Jim Lee writes: I claimed that Steven was using three different numbers to refer to the time it takes to master a subject: 10,000 hours an indefinite number 2 years Yes. He did so in the context of showing that *there is no precise number* that

Re: PEP 526 - var annotations and the spirit of python

2018-07-03 Thread Ben Finney
Jim Lee writes: > I claimed that Steven was using three different numbers to refer to > the time it takes to master a subject: > > 10,000 hours > an indefinite number > 2 years Yes. He did so in the context of showing that *there is no precise number* that universally applies for the amount of

Re: PEP 526 - var annotations and the spirit of python

2018-07-03 Thread Jim Lee
On 07/03/18 21:35, Ben Finney wrote: Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer writes: apart from programming, other questions go like this : […] *cut at this point* Ooh, I like that last step! How do we make that happen on demand? You could start by not adding to the noise... :) --

Re: PEP 526 - var annotations and the spirit of python

2018-07-03 Thread Jim Lee
On 07/03/18 21:25, Ben Finney wrote: Jim Lee writes: On 07/03/18 19:58, Ben Finney via Python-list wrote: Jim Lee writes: If you were to say John had 2 apples, Jane had 4 apples, and Joe had an indefinite number of apples, how many numbers are we talking about? Three numbers. And

Re: PEP 526 - var annotations and the spirit of python

2018-07-03 Thread Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer
conversation dies it denotes the end of the picture i was painting Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer https://github.com/Abdur-rahmaanJ -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: PEP 526 - var annotations and the spirit of python

2018-07-03 Thread Ben Finney
Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer writes: > apart from programming, other questions go like this : > > […] > *cut at this point* Ooh, I like that last step! How do we make that happen on demand? -- \ “Everything you read in newspapers is absolutely true, except | `\for that rare story

Re: PEP 526 - var annotations and the spirit of python

2018-07-03 Thread Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer
list members have a nice way to wriggle out of the subject ^^_ apart from programming, other questions go like this : asker : what do you think about this python thing? next post : *on track* next post : *on track* next post : *on track* btw thon is the name of a fish in french next post :

Re: PEP 526 - var annotations and the spirit of python

2018-07-03 Thread Ben Finney
Jim Lee writes: > On 07/03/18 19:58, Ben Finney via Python-list wrote: > > Jim Lee writes: > > > >> If you were to say John had 2 apples, Jane had 4 apples, and Joe had > >> an indefinite number of apples, how many numbers are we talking about? > > Three numbers. And “indefinite” is not one of

Re: PEP 526 - var annotations and the spirit of python

2018-07-03 Thread Jim Lee
On 07/03/18 19:58, Ben Finney via Python-list wrote: Jim Lee writes: If you were to say John had 2 apples, Jane had 4 apples, and Joe had an indefinite number of apples, how many numbers are we talking about? Three numbers. And “indefinite” is not one of those numbers. So, no, that doesn't

Re: PEP 526 - var annotations and the spirit of python

2018-07-03 Thread Ben Finney via Python-list
Jim Lee writes: > If you were to say John had 2 apples, Jane had 4 apples, and Joe had > an indefinite number of apples, how many numbers are we talking about? Three numbers. And “indefinite” is not one of those numbers. So, no, that doesn't support “"indefinite" is a number”. -- \

Re: PEP 526 - var annotations and the spirit of python

2018-07-03 Thread Jim Lee
On 07/03/18 19:31, Chris Angelico wrote: I've had debates with people about whether "infinity" is a number or not, but I've never yet heard anyone say that "indefinite" is a number. Hmm. This could be interesting. ChrisA If you were to say John had 2 apples, Jane had 4 apples, and Joe had

Re: PEP 526 - var annotations and the spirit of python

2018-07-03 Thread Chris Angelico
On Wed, Jul 4, 2018 at 12:28 PM, Jim Lee wrote: > > > On 07/03/18 16:51, Steven D'Aprano wrote: >> >> >> I love watching pedantically precise people panic and dig themselves into >> a hole. Since I'm an extremely pedantic person myself, I can recognise it >> in others -- especially when they're

Re: PEP 526 - var annotations and the spirit of python

2018-07-03 Thread Jim Lee
On 07/03/18 16:51, Steven D'Aprano wrote: I love watching pedantically precise people panic and dig themselves into a hole. Since I'm an extremely pedantic person myself, I can recognise it in others -- especially when they're not as precisely correct as they think they're being. It was two

Re: PEP 526 - var annotations and the spirit of python

2018-07-03 Thread Steven D'Aprano
On Tue, 03 Jul 2018 09:14:37 -0700, Jim Lee wrote: > On 07/03/18 01:34, Steven D'Aprano wrote: >> I said *indefinite* not infinite. > > Yes, you did.  My bad. Thanks Jim, your acknowledgement is appreciated. >> You did read the article I linked to, right? You know that people don't >>

Re: PEP 526 - var annotations and the spirit of python

2018-07-03 Thread Jim Lee
On 07/03/18 06:32, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote: On Mon, 2 Jul 2018 19:51:29 -0500, Tim Daneliuk declaimed the following: Except that the current attempt is to use techniques like agile, scrum, pair programming, and so forth to turn programming into a factory activity. High degrees of

Re: PEP 526 - var annotations and the spirit of python

2018-07-03 Thread Grant Edwards
On 2018-07-03, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > On Tue, 03 Jul 2018 14:24:26 +, Grant Edwards wrote: >> On 2018-07-03, Dan Stromberg wrote: >> >>> I used to write useful programs that ran in 256 bytes of RAM. >> >> Me too. >> >> Less than 10 years ago. >> >> In a real product. >> >> That's

Re: PEP 526 - var annotations and the spirit of python

2018-07-03 Thread Jim Lee
On 07/03/18 01:34, Steven D'Aprano wrote: I said *indefinite* not infinite. Yes, you did.  My bad. You did read the article I linked to, right? You know that people don't suddenly and instantly turn from "beginner" to "expert" when they exceed 9,999 hours 59 minutes and 59 seconds?

Re: PEP 526 - var annotations and the spirit of python

2018-07-03 Thread Steven D'Aprano
On Tue, 03 Jul 2018 14:24:26 +, Grant Edwards wrote: > On 2018-07-03, Dan Stromberg wrote: > >> I used to write useful programs that ran in 256 bytes of RAM. > > Me too. > > Less than 10 years ago. > > In a real product. > > That's still shipping. Well don't be shy. Got a link? --

Re: PEP 526 - var annotations and the spirit of python

2018-07-03 Thread Gene Heskett
On Tuesday 03 July 2018 09:32:52 Dennis Lee Bieber wrote: > On Mon, 2 Jul 2018 19:51:29 -0500, Tim Daneliuk > > declaimed the following: > >Except that the current attempt is to use techniques like agile, > >scrum, pair programming, and so forth to turn programming into > >a factory activity.

Re: PEP 526 - var annotations and the spirit of python

2018-07-03 Thread Grant Edwards
On 2018-07-03, Dan Stromberg wrote: > I used to write useful programs that ran in 256 bytes of RAM. Me too. Less than 10 years ago. In a real product. That's still shipping. -- Grant Edwards grant.b.edwardsYow! Are you mentally here

Re: PEP 526 - var annotations and the spirit of python

2018-07-03 Thread Bart
On 01/07/2018 18:06, Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer wrote: was viewing pep526, so, finally, python cannot do without hinting the type as other languages? will python finally move to int x = 3 where int is a pre annotation? i am not arguing it's usefulness but rather, does it fit with python? Not in

Re: PEP 526 - var annotations and the spirit of python

2018-07-03 Thread Chris Angelico
On Tue, Jul 3, 2018 at 6:34 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > Or as my wife would say, "did you mean an Aussie couple or an actual > couple?" I meant an Aussie couple, which could be anything from two to > four or five. Six at a stretch. As in, "no worries mate, it'll be ready > in a coupla days." cf

Re: PEP 526 - var annotations and the spirit of python

2018-07-03 Thread Steven D'Aprano
On Mon, 02 Jul 2018 18:20:53 -0700, Jim Lee wrote: > On 07/02/18 17:51, Steven D'Aprano wrote: >> >> For most of us mere mortals, the "ten thousand hours" rule of thumb >> applies. >> >> Ten thousand hours should be read as an indefinitely large number >> >>> A truly good programmer will be able

Re: PEP 526 - var annotations and the spirit of python

2018-07-03 Thread Gregory Ewing
Steven D'Aprano wrote: "Jack of all trades, master of none" sort of thing? Or are you thinking more along the lines of one of those guys who masters a new language in an hour and reaches expert level in a week? I'm not talking about someone who hasn't mastered anything. I'm talking about

Re: PEP 526 - var annotations and the spirit of python

2018-07-03 Thread Dan Stromberg
On Mon, Jul 2, 2018 at 5:51 PM, Tim Daneliuk wrote: > In particular, there is little interest in having programmers > learn on the job, only that they be as productive as possible > as fast they can. Hiring specific languages skills - the theory > goes - means that the individual will be

Re: PEP 526 - var annotations and the spirit of python

2018-07-03 Thread Dan Stromberg
On Mon, Jul 2, 2018 at 6:10 PM, Jim Lee wrote: > On 07/02/18 17:34, Dan Stromberg wrote: > > The fact of the matter is the economics have changed a lot since then. > Machine time used to be really expensive compared to developer time. > Today, it's the opposite: developer time is really

Re: PEP 526 - var annotations and the spirit of python

2018-07-02 Thread Tim Daneliuk
On 07/02/2018 06:22 PM, Gregory Ewing wrote: > A > truly good programmer will be able to learn about the language > being used on the job. Except that the current attempt is to use techniques like agile, scrum, pair programming, and so forth to turn programming into a factory activity. High

Re: PEP 526 - var annotations and the spirit of python

2018-07-02 Thread Jim Lee
On 07/02/18 17:51, Steven D'Aprano wrote: For most of us mere mortals, the "ten thousand hours" rule of thumb applies. Ten thousand hours should be read as an indefinitely large number A truly good programmer will be able to learn about the language being used on the job. Indeed, if you

Re: PEP 526 - var annotations and the spirit of python

2018-07-02 Thread Jim Lee
On 07/02/18 17:34, Dan Stromberg wrote: The fact of the matter is the economics have changed a lot since then. Machine time used to be really expensive compared to developer time.  Today, it's the opposite: developer time is really expensive compared to machine time. If you go back

Re: PEP 526 - var annotations and the spirit of python

2018-07-02 Thread Steven D'Aprano
On Tue, 03 Jul 2018 11:22:56 +1200, Gregory Ewing wrote: > Someone who is familiar with a > variety of languages is also very likely to be self-motivated and have > enough passion and curiosity to have acquired a broad and deep knowledge > of other aspects of the craft. "Jack of all trades,

Re: PEP 526 - var annotations and the spirit of python

2018-07-02 Thread Dan Stromberg
On Sun, Jul 1, 2018 at 8:51 PM, Jim Lee wrote: > Languages that used to be small, lean, and exceptional at doing things > really well in a given domain have morphed into large, monolithic, bloated > language *systems* that do many things in many domains, and have many ways > to do the *same*

Re: PEP 526 - var annotations and the spirit of python

2018-07-02 Thread Jim Lee
On 07/02/18 16:22, Gregory Ewing wrote: Ian Kelly wrote: Just because somebody knows a dozen languages doesn't mean that they can come up with the correct algorithm, That doesn't mean there's no correlation. Someone who is familiar with a variety of languages is also very likely to be

Re: PEP 526 - var annotations and the spirit of python

2018-07-02 Thread Gregory Ewing
Ian Kelly wrote: Just because somebody knows a dozen languages doesn't mean that they can come up with the correct algorithm, That doesn't mean there's no correlation. Someone who is familiar with a variety of languages is also very likely to be self-motivated and have enough passion and

Re: PEP 526 - var annotations and the spirit of python

2018-07-02 Thread Ian Kelly
On Sun, Jul 1, 2018 at 10:53 PM Jim Lee wrote: > I did get one epiphany out of that. He's right - there are orders of > magnitude more programmers today than there were a couple of decades ago > - and they ARE almost all entry level, in that they are fluent in only > one (maybe two) languages.

Re: PEP 526 - var annotations and the spirit of python

2018-07-02 Thread Jim Lee
On 07/02/18 04:01, Steven D'Aprano wrote: On Sun, 01 Jul 2018 20:51:42 -0700, Jim Lee wrote: Back before the dot com boom, programmers (generally) knew at least 6, 7, 8 languages. You obviously didn't know (m)any of the hundreds of thousands of COBOL programmers.   I did know a handful,

Re: PEP 526 - var annotations and the spirit of python

2018-07-02 Thread Tim Daneliuk
On 07/01/2018 12:17 PM, MRAB wrote: > On 2018-07-01 18:06, Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer wrote: >> was viewing pep526, so, finally, python cannot do without hinting the type >> as other languages? >> will python finally move to >> int x = 3 where int is a pre annotation? >> >> i am not arguing it's

Re: PEP 526 - var annotations and the spirit of python

2018-07-02 Thread Grant Edwards
On 2018-07-02, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > In the long run, why do we always fear people coming from other > languages? Tribalism and fear of outsiders was bred into H. sapiens (and ancestors) millions of years ago? -- Grant Edwards grant.b.edwardsYow! My Aunt MAUREEN was

Re: PEP 526 - var annotations and the spirit of python

2018-07-02 Thread Steven D'Aprano
On Sun, 01 Jul 2018 20:51:42 -0700, Jim Lee wrote: > Back before the dot com boom, programmers (generally) knew at least 6, > 7, 8 languages. You obviously didn't know (m)any of the hundreds of thousands of COBOL programmers. (A language conspicuous by its absence from your impressively large

Re: PEP 526 - var annotations and the spirit of python

2018-07-01 Thread Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer
me too i come from "other languages" but what i liked in python was python now the world got mixed up again Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer https://github.com/Abdur-rahmaanJ In the long run, why do we always fear people coming from other > languages? Why don't they fear Python programmers coming to

Re: PEP 526 - var annotations and the spirit of python

2018-07-01 Thread Jim Lee
On 07/01/18 18:21, Steven D'Aprano wrote: Guido has been talking about this for a LONG time: You keep bringing that up.  It's not an argument. People have been talking about taxes for a long, long time.  Does it surprise you that they still do?  None of us has a time machine that will

Re: PEP 526 - var annotations and the spirit of python

2018-07-01 Thread Steven D'Aprano
On Sun, 01 Jul 2018 22:48:00 +0400, Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer wrote: > not python, the spirit of python, > > i guess i must have been around when it was first discussed, now it's > too late to discuss why it was introduced in the first place ... Guido has been talking about this for

Re: PEP 526 - var annotations and the spirit of python

2018-07-01 Thread Steven D'Aprano
On Sun, 01 Jul 2018 21:55:21 +0400, Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer wrote: > i meant that x: int = 3 is dangerously close to int x = 3, > > in the long run, you'll come across people who come from other languages > wanting to java/c style their code and end up sprinkling a lot of these, > it'll be a

Re: PEP 526 - var annotations and the spirit of python

2018-07-01 Thread Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer
not python, the spirit of python, i guess i must have been around when it was first discussed, now it's too late to discuss why it was introduced in the first place ... Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer https://github.com/Abdur-rahmaanJ I'm sure people will misuse type hints too. What of it? Does

Re: PEP 526 - var annotations and the spirit of python

2018-07-01 Thread Chris Angelico
On Mon, Jul 2, 2018 at 3:55 AM, Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer wrote: > i meant that x: int = 3 is dangerously close to int x = 3, > > in the long run, you'll come across people who come from other languages > wanting to java/c style their code and end up sprinkling a lot of these, > it'll be a sad day

Re: PEP 526 - var annotations and the spirit of python

2018-07-01 Thread Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer
i meant that x: int = 3 is dangerously close to int x = 3, in the long run, you'll come across people who come from other languages wanting to java/c style their code and end up sprinkling a lot of these, it'll be a sad day for me return type in function definition also managed to return via ->

Re: PEP 526 - var annotations and the spirit of python

2018-07-01 Thread Ian Kelly
On Sun, Jul 1, 2018 at 11:09 AM Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer wrote: > > was viewing pep526, so, finally, python cannot do without hinting the type > as other languages? Python certainly can do without it. That's why it's an optional feature with no runtime effect beyond making the annotations

Re: PEP 526 - var annotations and the spirit of python

2018-07-01 Thread MRAB
On 2018-07-01 18:06, Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer wrote: was viewing pep526, so, finally, python cannot do without hinting the type as other languages? will python finally move to int x = 3 where int is a pre annotation? i am not arguing it's usefulness but rather, does it fit with python? PEP

PEP 526 - var annotations and the spirit of python

2018-07-01 Thread Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer
was viewing pep526, so, finally, python cannot do without hinting the type as other languages? will python finally move to int x = 3 where int is a pre annotation? i am not arguing it's usefulness but rather, does it fit with python? Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer https://github.com/Abdur-rahmaanJ --

The Spirit of Python

2013-11-14 Thread Roy Smith
https://twitter.com/dabeaz/status/400813245532876800/photo/1 Now THIS is a Python book I should get. I'm guessing it's about design patterns. Or maybe just the GIL. --- Roy Smith r...@panix.com -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: The Spirit of Python

2013-11-14 Thread jkn
On Thursday, November 14, 2013 6:11:08 PM UTC, Roy Smith wrote: https://twitter.com/dabeaz/status/400813245532876800/photo/1 Now THIS is a Python book I should get.  I'm guessing it's about design patterns. Or maybe just the GIL. Excellent, thanks fro the link. And is that a book by

Re: The Spirit of Python

2013-11-14 Thread Ethan Furman
On 11/14/2013 10:47 AM, jkn wrote: On Thursday, November 14, 2013 6:11:08 PM UTC, Roy Smith wrote: https://twitter.com/dabeaz/status/400813245532876800/photo/1 Now THIS is a Python book I should get. I'm guessing it's about design patterns. Or maybe just the GIL. Excellent, thanks fro

Re: The Spirit of Python

2013-11-14 Thread Dave Angel
On Thu, 14 Nov 2013 13:11:08 -0500, Roy Smith r...@panix.com wrote: Intriguing subject line but an empty message body. Please post in text not html if you want everyone to see it. Thanks -- DaveA -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: The Spirit of Python

2013-11-14 Thread Ben Finney
Dave Angel da...@davea.name writes: On Thu, 14 Nov 2013 13:11:08 -0500, Roy Smith r...@panix.com wrote: Intriguing subject line but an empty message body. Please post in text not html if you want everyone to see it. My message agent also discards HTML messages. Roy Smith's message displayed

Re: The Spirit of Python

2013-11-14 Thread Dave Angel
On Fri, 15 Nov 2013 15:16:09 +1100, Ben Finney ben+pyt...@benfinney.id.au wrote: Dave Angel da...@davea.name writes: On Thu, 14 Nov 2013 13:11:08 -0500, Roy Smith r...@panix.com wrote: Intriguing subject line but an empty message body. Please post in text not html if you want