On 6/12/10 8:26 PM, Gregory Ewing wrote:
On Jun 12, 6:05 pm, Stephen Hansen me+list/pyt...@ixokai.io wrote:
A programming goof, oversight or unexpected event causes an exception.
It doesn't cause a buffer overflow.
The important thing here isn't so much the exception as
the *traceback*.
On 6/12/10 8:42 PM, Gregory Ewing wrote:
Stephen Hansen wrote:
Its one thing for Python to make available foot-shooting tools(this is
good! I love ctypes, with care) for the developer, its another thing
entirely for it to shoot at the ground in the normal course of its
operation and hope it
On 6/12/2010 11:42 PM, Gregory Ewing wrote:
Seriously, though, if you can't trust someone to write safe
ctypes-using code, can you trust them to write safe C code any
better?
No, and I think you are missing the concern about ctypes. There are two
issues of ctypes versus safety/security:
On 06/12/10 08:21, Martin v. Loewis wrote:
cut
The issue is not that you may mistakes in the ctypes code, thus allowing
users to crash Python. The issue is that if users remove ctypes (which
they may want to do because it's not trustworthy), then your module will
stop working (unless you have a
Got me thinking, is it perhaps doable to have a 'safe' ctype that is
guaranteed to be in the stdlib? Perhaps crippling it in a sense that it
only allows a known set of functions to be called?
In some sense, a C module wrapping a selected number of functions
(like the win32 extensions) is
Martin P. Hellwig wrote:
Martin v. Loewis wrote:
cut The issue is not that you may mistakes in the ctypes code, thus
allowing
users to crash Python. The issue is that if users remove ctypes (which
they may want to do because it's not trustworthy), then your module will
stop working
Perhaps instead of restricting what functions ctypes can use, we could
restrict what modules can use ctypes. For example, maybe only modules
in certain directories should be allowed to import ctypes.
And that's indeed the case. The test suite may use ctypes.
Regards,
Martin
--
On Jun 12, 8:11 am, Martin v. Loewis mar...@v.loewis.de wrote:
Got me thinking, is it perhaps doable to have a 'safe' ctype that is
guaranteed to be in the stdlib? Perhaps crippling it in a sense that it
only allows a known set of functions to be called?
In some sense, a C module wrapping
On 6/12/10 9:55 AM, lkcl wrote:
On Jun 12, 8:11 am, Martin v. Loewis mar...@v.loewis.de wrote:
Notice that it's not (only) the functions itself, but also the
parameters. It's absolutely easy to crash Python by calling a function
through ctypes that expects a pointer, and you pass an integer.
On Jun 12, 6:05 pm, Stephen Hansen me+list/pyt...@ixokai.io wrote:
On 6/12/10 9:55 AM, lkcl wrote:
On Jun 12, 8:11 am, Martin v. Loewis mar...@v.loewis.de wrote:
Notice that it's not (only) the functions itself, but also the
parameters. It's absolutely easy to crash Python by calling a
On 6/12/10 12:46 PM, lkcl wrote:
On Jun 12, 6:05 pm, Stephen Hansen me+list/pyt...@ixokai.io wrote:
Its one of the reasons why we *like* Python at my day job. (Though it
applies to nearly any other high level language): its inherently safer.
A programming goof, oversight or unexpected event
Notice that it's not (only) the functions itself, but also the
parameters. It's absolutely easy to crash Python by calling a function
through ctypes that expects a pointer, and you pass an integer. The
machine code will dereference the pointer (trusting that it actually is
one), and crash.
ok... analogy: when using g++ to compile c++ code, would you place
use of asm statements into the same sort of foot-shooting category?
In a slightly different way, yes. There is no way of disabling inline
assembly in g++, so the analogy is not fully appropriate.
However, IIUC, using inline
On Jun 12, 6:05 pm, Stephen Hansen me+list/pyt...@ixokai.io wrote:
A programming goof, oversight or unexpected event causes an exception.
It doesn't cause a buffer overflow.
The important thing here isn't so much the exception as
the *traceback*.
When you've been programming in Python for a
Stephen Hansen wrote:
Its one thing for Python to make available foot-shooting tools(this is
good! I love ctypes, with care) for the developer, its another thing
entirely for it to shoot at the ground in the normal course of its
operation and hope it doesn't blow off any big toes. :)
I would
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