Re: When will Python go mainstream like Java?
mk, 24.02.2010 18:30: On 2010-02-24 03:26, George Sakkis wrote: Well I for one wouldn't want Python to go exactly Java way, see this: http://www.itjobswatch.co.uk/charts/permanent-demand-trend.aspx?s=jav... This is the percentage of job offers in UK where the keyword Java appears. Same for C#, it looks like C# is eating Java's lunch now: http://www.itjobswatch.co.uk/charts/permanent-demand-trend.aspx?s=csh... This seems to be a UK-specific trend; in the US (and most other countries I know of) Java is still going strong, e.g. http://www.indeed.com/jobtrends?q=java%2C+c%23l= Interesting, and I was thinking that UK sample was big enough for such things not to matter. Lies, damn lies, and statistics ... Stefan -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When will Python go mainstream like Java?
At 12.34 pm on November 13, 2011 regards Steve -- Steve Holden +1 571 484 6266 +1 800 494 3119 PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010 http://us.pycon.org/ Holden Web LLC http://www.holdenweb.com/ UPCOMING EVENTS:http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When will Python go mainstream like Java?
Stefan Behnel wrote: Chris Rebert, 23.02.2010 06:45: Indeed. Python is at position 7, just behind C#, in the TIOBE Index: http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html That index is clearly flawed. A language like PHP (whatever that is supposed to be comparable with) can't possibly be on the rise, can it? Interesting that you are willing to trust your gut feeling against an established survey. All indexes are flawed, they are merely flawed in different ways is all. I track TIOBE because it shows trends. Python's absolute position on the list doesn't interest me so much. regards Steve -- Steve Holden +1 571 484 6266 +1 800 494 3119 PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010 http://us.pycon.org/ Holden Web LLC http://www.holdenweb.com/ UPCOMING EVENTS:http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When will Python go mainstream like Java?
Steve Holden wrote: At 12.34 pm on November 13, 2011 At December 21, 2012 at 11:11 am (according to the Maya calendar) -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When will Python go mainstream like Java?
On 02/24/10 16:05, Peter Parker wrote: Steve Holden wrote: At 12.34 pm on November 13, 2011 At December 21, 2012 at 11:11 am (according to the Maya calendar) On August 29, 1997, Java became mainstream. In a panic, Microsoft tried to embrace, extend and exterminate the system, prompting Sun to retaliate with a lawsuit, knowing that Microsoft's counterattack would eliminate all its main competitors in the U.S. This initiates an indeterminately long period of new language development culminating in a battle against corporate monopoly, which gained ever-increasing capabilities of FUD. -- mph -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When will Python go mainstream like Java?
On 2010-02-24 03:26, George Sakkis wrote: Well I for one wouldn't want Python to go exactly Java way, see this: http://www.itjobswatch.co.uk/charts/permanent-demand-trend.aspx?s=jav... This is the percentage of job offers in UK where the keyword Java appears. Same for C#, it looks like C# is eating Java's lunch now: http://www.itjobswatch.co.uk/charts/permanent-demand-trend.aspx?s=csh... This seems to be a UK-specific trend; in the US (and most other countries I know of) Java is still going strong, e.g. http://www.indeed.com/jobtrends?q=java%2C+c%23l= Interesting, and I was thinking that UK sample was big enough for such things not to matter. Regards, mk -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When will Python go mainstream like Java?
On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 1:01 AM, Edward A. Falk f...@mauve.rahul.net wrote: You mean it's not? -- -Ed Falk, f...@despams.r.us.com http://thespamdiaries.blogspot.com/ Javas popularity was very much a product of its time. It was something new and exciting and people got a bit too excited maybe, Python just does the same thing but better really, therefor it will not become as popular. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When will Python go mainstream like Java?
On 23 February 2010 08:56, AON LAZIO aonla...@gmail.com wrote: That will be superb Yes it would - but I'll just add in few words. Java - Monstrous language that was Sun's flagship language. Now, it's Oracles. Python - Hobby-ish hacking language that we all love so much (that we wish everything was written using Python). Java - The JVM code been hacked to death by Sun engineers (optimised) Python - The PVM code has seen speed-ups in Unladen or via Pyrex.. ad-infinitum but nowhere as near to JVM I like both Python and Java but given the amount of resources put into JVM and Java (JEE is _huge_ in Enterprise if you didn't know that already and there are universities that speak Java fluently), it's kind of sad that Python till the day hasn't seen speedup in mainline releases. I see Python more as a hacker's language which will gradually evolve and support SMEs and alike in the long run than Java (and of course we write our weekend-only hacking projects in it :-) but for a market-uptake like Java requires universities, colleges and students to learn this wonderful little language and requests energetic hackers to fix lock-contention issues and the like in the core implementation. Perhaps I see a light, perhaps I see nothing.. but I feel the day is coming nearer when Python would run as fast as Java/C. Only time can tell - I hope the time is right about this. -- Regards Ishwor Gurung Key id:0xa98db35e Key fingerprint:FBEF 0D69 6DE1 C72B A5A8 35FE 5A9B F3BB 4E5E 17B5 -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When will Python go mainstream like Java?
Am Tuesday 23 February 2010 09:07:43 schrieb Krister Svanlund: On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 1:01 AM, Edward A. Falk f...@mauve.rahul.net wrote: You mean it's not? -- -Ed Falk, f...@despams.r.us.com http://thespamdiaries.blogspot.com/ Javas popularity was very much a product of its time. It was something new and exciting and people got a bit too excited maybe, Python just does the same thing but better really, therefor it will not become as popular. Good morning, i don't like Java/JSP, the synthax is blown up and the programs are damn slow. For ecllipse you should buy a cluster. There is C/C++/D, Python, Ruby, Gambas, TCL, PHP, SmallTalk and some other nice Programming Languages, so i don't understand why people use Java. Java is the one an only OOP Language, the best one - Yeah and whats with multiple inheritance? I'am in love with Python ;-) Kind Regards -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When will Python go mainstream like Java?
On Tuesday 23 February 2010 03:10 PM, Richard Lamboj wrote: Am Tuesday 23 February 2010 09:07:43 schrieb Krister Svanlund: On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 1:01 AM, Edward A. Falkf...@mauve.rahul.net wrote: You mean it's not? -- -Ed Falk, f...@despams.r.us.com http://thespamdiaries.blogspot.com/ Javas popularity was very much a product of its time. It was something new and exciting and people got a bit too excited maybe, Python just does the same thing but better really, therefor it will not become as popular. Good morning, i don't like Java/JSP, the synthax is blown up and the programs are damn slow. For ecllipse you should buy a cluster. There is C/C++/D, Python, Ruby, Gambas, TCL, PHP, SmallTalk and some other nice Programming Languages, so i don't understand why people use Java. Java is the one an only OOP Language, the best one - Yeah and whats with multiple inheritance? I'am in love with Python ;-) There are a few reasons why we don't see python as a buz word. Java was well marketed and the time when it came out with libraries like swing, there was no popularly known alternative. As a matter of fact I don't really go by popularity with technologies, specially when it comes to programming languages. Just show me 2 or 3 big apps or web sites which are scalable and take multiple requests. show me just 2 instances where heavy number crunching is done efficiently and I am convinced. I don't care how many apps are developed using java as long as they remain heavy and slw. google runs on python and so do many other big applications. marketing is more about exaggeration, which Sun did for Java. Python was always in the hands of programmers who wanted their work done and wanted scalable apps. So the conclusion is that all that is popular need not be good for every thing . Happy hacking. Krishnakant. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When will Python go mainstream like Java?
Chris Rebert, 23.02.2010 06:45: Indeed. Python is at position 7, just behind C#, in the TIOBE Index: http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html That index is clearly flawed. A language like PHP (whatever that is supposed to be comparable with) can't possibly be on the rise, can it? Stefan -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When will Python go mainstream like Java?
On Feb 22, 2010, at 10:56 PM, AON LAZIO wrote: That will be superb I guess static typing will have to be added, so that tools like eclipse can inspect (and autocomplete) your programs [better]. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When will Python go mainstream like Java?
hackingKK a écrit : (snip) I don't care how many apps are developed using java as long as they remain heavy and slw. google runs on python Please get your facts right. Python is one of the languages used internally at Google, true, but so is Java. And google-the-search-engine does not run on python. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When will Python go mainstream like Java?
Roald de Vries a écrit : On Feb 22, 2010, at 10:56 PM, AON LAZIO wrote: That will be superb I guess static typing will have to be added, so that tools like eclipse can inspect (and autocomplete) your programs [better]. Yet another troll... -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When will Python go mainstream like Java?
AON LAZIO wrote: That will be superb Well I for one wouldn't want Python to go exactly Java way, see this: http://www.itjobswatch.co.uk/charts/permanent-demand-trend.aspx?s=javal=uk This is the percentage of job offers in UK where the keyword Java appears. Same for C#, it looks like C# is eating Java's lunch now: http://www.itjobswatch.co.uk/charts/permanent-demand-trend.aspx?s=csharpl=uk What worries me somewhat (although not much) is that after long period of solid growth the market can't decide about Python: http://www.itjobswatch.co.uk/charts/permanent-demand-trend.aspx?s=pythonl=uk I learned painfully that in corporate setting merits of a programming language do not matter much, it's more like whatever catches the groupthink at the moment. Java is good because big ones select Java, static typing is good because compiler catches programmer's errors (this one is particularly appealing to managers I found), etc. Although all my internal use tools are written in Python, there's no way I could convince managers to use Python as the main application devel language. This, however, is not of itself a problem: as long as language is lively and has at least a few percent of programmers using it -- which is important for existence of libraries, not much more -- there's no problem for people who want to get ahead of competition / waste less time by using advanced programming langauges. Frankly, I have yet to encounter a problem for which either a sizable Python extension or bindings to a popular library wouldn't exist. This in itself is a hallmark of a language being enough of mainstream to actually matter in practice. This I find quite insightful: http://www.paulgraham.com/avg.html Regards, mk -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When will Python go mainstream like Java?
Stefan Behnel wrote: Chris Rebert, 23.02.2010 06:45: Indeed. Python is at position 7, just behind C#, in the TIOBE Index: http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html That index is clearly flawed. A language like PHP (whatever that is supposed to be comparable with) can't possibly be on the rise, can it? Well it looks like it is at least stabilized: http://www.itjobswatch.co.uk/charts/permanent-demand-trend.aspx?s=phpl=uk I find job offers to be rather good index of the extent to which the language is actually used, and this is what this index is based on (percentage of job offers with the keyword php in them). Regards, mk -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When will Python go mainstream like Java?
Actually I am still waiting for Java to be mainstream :-) You could say it is popular, which it is without doubt but in my opinion after C handed over it's pseudo de facto standard (mostly because a lot of OS'es are written in it) nobody else has had enough momenta to reach for that crown. Actually I quite like the soup of languages these days, what amuses me though, that Python seems to emerge as the de facto glue language to bind them all :-) -- mph -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When will Python go mainstream like Java?
On Feb 23, 2010, at 10:10 AM, Martin P. Hellwig wrote: Actually I am still waiting for Java to be mainstream :-) You could say it is popular, which it is without doubt but in my opinion after C handed over it's pseudo de facto standard (mostly because a lot of OS'es are written in it) nobody else has had enough momenta to reach for that crown. Actually I quite like the soup of languages these days, what amuses me though, that Python seems to emerge as the de facto glue language to bind them all :-) I'm sure there's a Tolkien 1-liner in there somewhere ;-). S -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When will Python go mainstream like Java?
Stefan Behnel stefan...@behnel.de writes: Chris Rebert, 23.02.2010 06:45: Indeed. Python is at position 7, just behind C#, in the TIOBE Index: http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html That index is clearly flawed. A language like PHP (whatever that is supposed to be comparable with) can't possibly be on the rise, can it? Why not? What do you think the TIOBE measures, and why would PHP not be rising by that measure? -- \ “To save the world requires faith and courage: faith in reason, | `\and courage to proclaim what reason shows to be true.” | _o__)—Bertrand Russell | Ben Finney -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When will Python go mainstream like Java?
On Feb 23, 3:49 pm, mk mrk...@gmail.com wrote: Well I for one wouldn't want Python to go exactly Java way, see this: http://www.itjobswatch.co.uk/charts/permanent-demand-trend.aspx?s=jav... This is the percentage of job offers in UK where the keyword Java appears. Same for C#, it looks like C# is eating Java's lunch now: http://www.itjobswatch.co.uk/charts/permanent-demand-trend.aspx?s=csh... This seems to be a UK-specific trend; in the US (and most other countries I know of) Java is still going strong, e.g. http://www.indeed.com/jobtrends?q=java%2C+c%23l= George -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When will Python go mainstream like Java?
On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 10:56 PM, AON LAZIO aonla...@gmail.com wrote: That will be superb -- Passion is my style And when will insert random band be as famous as the beatles? -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When will Python go mainstream like Java?
On Feb 22, 3:27 pm, Krister Svanlund krister.svanl...@gmail.com wrote: And when will insert random band be as famous as the Beatles? And when will insert random non-schmaltzoid singer) be as famous as Phil Collins? -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When will Python go mainstream like Java?
You mean it's not? -- -Ed Falk, f...@despams.r.us.com http://thespamdiaries.blogspot.com/ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When will Python go mainstream like Java?
When will Java be popular enough to replace other languages in their own environments, the way Python has done to Java (Jython) and .NET (IronPython)? Shawn -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When will Python go mainstream like Java?
On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 1:56 PM, AON LAZIO aonla...@gmail.com wrote: That will be superb It already has. -- Jonathan Gardner jgard...@jonathangardner.net -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When will Python go mainstream like Java?
On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 8:36 PM, Jonathan Gardner jgard...@jonathangardner.net wrote: On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 1:56 PM, AON LAZIO aonla...@gmail.com wrote: That will be superb It already has. Indeed. Python is at position 7, just behind C#, in the TIOBE Index: http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html Although for Java-level mainstreamness, you'd probably need to be in the top 3 or 4. Cheers, Chris -- The TIOBE Index is by no means perfect though. http://blog.rebertia.com -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When will Python go mainstream like Java?
On Feb 22, 9:45 pm, Chris Rebert c...@rebertia.com wrote: On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 8:36 PM, Jonathan Gardner jgard...@jonathangardner.net wrote: On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 1:56 PM, AON LAZIO aonla...@gmail.com wrote: That will be superb It already has. Indeed. Python is at position 7, just behind C#, in the TIOBE Index:http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html Although for Java-level mainstreamness, you'd probably need to be in the top 3 or 4. Cheers, Chris -- The TIOBE Index is by no means perfect though.http://blog.rebertia.com I am sure Python could rise to number six with some squigglies! ;) -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
