Re: [PATCH v8 1/3] docs: improve qcow2 spec about extending image header
07.11.2019 15:26, Vladimir Sementsov-Ogievskiy wrote: > 06.11.2019 22:19, Eric Blake wrote: >> On 10/18/19 9:36 AM, Vladimir Sementsov-Ogievskiy wrote: >> Maybe: if software doesn't know how to interpret the field, it may be safely ignored unless a corresponding incompatible feature flag bit is set; however, the field should be preserved unchanged when rewriting the image header. > + > +For all additional fields zero value equals to absence of field (absence > is > +when field.offset + field.size > @header_length). This implies > +that if software want's to set fields up to some field not aligned to > multiply > +of 8 it must align header up by zeroes. And on the other hand, if > software > +need some optional field which is absent it should assume that it's > value is > +zero. Maybe: Each optional field that does not have a corresponding incompatible feature bit must support the value 0 that gives the same default behavior as when the optional field is omitted. >>> >>> Hmmm. That doesn't work, as "corresponding" is something not actually >>> defined. Consider our zstd extension. >>> >>> It has corresponding incompatible bit, therefore, this sentence doesn't >>> apply to it. But still, if incompatible bit is unset we can have this >>> field. And it's zero value must correspond >>> to the absence of the field. >>> >>> So, additional field may use incomaptible bit only for subset of its values. >>> >>> But, I see, that you want to allow 0 value to not match field-absence if >>> incompatible bit is set? >> >> Not necessarily. Rather, if the value of an unknown field can be safely >> ignored, then it should default to 0. If it cannot be safely ignored, then >> that field will not be set to a non-zero value without also setting an >> incompatible feature flag, so that software that does not know how to >> interpret the field will fail to load the image because it also fails to >> recognize the associated new incompatible feature bit. >> >> But I'd really like Kevin's opinion on how much wording is worth adding. >> >>> >>> So, may be >>> >>> Additional fields has the following compatible behavior by default: >> >> s/has/have/ >> >>> >>> 1. If software doesn't know how to interpret the field, it may be safely >>> ignored, other than preserving the field unchanged when rewriting the image >>> header. >>> 2. Zeroed additional field gives the same behavior as when this field is >>> omitted. >> >> Both good. >> >>> >>> This default behavior may be altered with help of incompatible feature >>> bits. So, if, for example, additional field has corresponding incompatible >>> feature bit, and it is set, we are sure that software which opens the image >>> knows how to interpret the field, so, >>> 1. The field definitely will not be ignored when corresponding incompatible >>> bit is set. >>> 2. The field may define any meaning it wants for zero value for the case >>> when corresponding incompatible bit is set. >> >> Rather wordy but seems accurate. Perhaps compress it to: >> >> 3. Any additional field whose value must not be ignored for correct handling >> of the file will be accompanied by a corresponding incompatible feature bit. >> >> and maybe even reorder it to list the points as: >> >> Additional fields have the following compatibility rules: >> 1. Any additional field whose value must not be ignored for correct handling >> of the file will be accompanied by a corresponding incompatible feature bit. > > I'd like to stress, that incompatible bit is needed for incompatible value, > not for the field itself. (So field may be accompanied by incompatible bit > for some > it's values and for others - not), So, what about > > 1. If the value of the additional field must not be ignored for correct > handling of the file, it will be accompanied by a corresponding incompatible > feature bit. > >> 2. If there are no unrecognized incompatible feature bits set, an additional >> field may be safely ignored other than preserving its value when rewriting >> the image header. > > Sounds like we can ignore the field if we know its meaning and know its > incompatible bit.. > > 2. If there are no unrecognized incompatible feature bits set, an unknown > additional field may be safely ignored other than preserving its value when > rewriting the image header. > >> 3. An explicit value of 0 will have the same behavior as when the field is >> not present. > > But it may be changed by incompatible bit.. > > 3. An explicit value of 0 will have the same behavior as when the field is > not present, if not altered by specific incompatible bit. > Eric, OK for you? >> >> > +It's allowed for the header end to cut some field in the middle (in this > case > +the field is considered as absent), but in this case the part of the > field > +which is covered by @header_length
Re: [PATCH v8 1/3] docs: improve qcow2 spec about extending image header
06.11.2019 22:19, Eric Blake wrote: > On 10/18/19 9:36 AM, Vladimir Sementsov-Ogievskiy wrote: > >>> Maybe: >>> >>> if software doesn't know how to interpret the field, it may be safely >>> ignored unless a corresponding incompatible feature flag bit is set; >>> however, the field should be preserved unchanged when rewriting the image >>> header. >>> + +For all additional fields zero value equals to absence of field (absence is +when field.offset + field.size > @header_length). This implies +that if software want's to set fields up to some field not aligned to multiply +of 8 it must align header up by zeroes. And on the other hand, if software +need some optional field which is absent it should assume that it's value is +zero. >>> >>> Maybe: >>> >>> Each optional field that does not have a corresponding incompatible feature >>> bit must support the value 0 that gives the same default behavior as when >>> the optional field is omitted. >> >> Hmmm. That doesn't work, as "corresponding" is something not actually >> defined. Consider our zstd extension. >> >> It has corresponding incompatible bit, therefore, this sentence doesn't >> apply to it. But still, if incompatible bit is unset we can have this field. >> And it's zero value must correspond >> to the absence of the field. >> >> So, additional field may use incomaptible bit only for subset of its values. >> >> But, I see, that you want to allow 0 value to not match field-absence if >> incompatible bit is set? > > Not necessarily. Rather, if the value of an unknown field can be safely > ignored, then it should default to 0. If it cannot be safely ignored, then > that field will not be set to a non-zero value without also setting an > incompatible feature flag, so that software that does not know how to > interpret the field will fail to load the image because it also fails to > recognize the associated new incompatible feature bit. > > But I'd really like Kevin's opinion on how much wording is worth adding. > >> >> So, may be >> >> Additional fields has the following compatible behavior by default: > > s/has/have/ > >> >> 1. If software doesn't know how to interpret the field, it may be safely >> ignored, other than preserving the field unchanged when rewriting the image >> header. >> 2. Zeroed additional field gives the same behavior as when this field is >> omitted. > > Both good. > >> >> This default behavior may be altered with help of incompatible feature bits. >> So, if, for example, additional field has corresponding incompatible feature >> bit, and it is set, we are sure that software which opens the image knows >> how to interpret the field, so, >> 1. The field definitely will not be ignored when corresponding incompatible >> bit is set. >> 2. The field may define any meaning it wants for zero value for the case >> when corresponding incompatible bit is set. > > Rather wordy but seems accurate. Perhaps compress it to: > > 3. Any additional field whose value must not be ignored for correct handling > of the file will be accompanied by a corresponding incompatible feature bit. > > and maybe even reorder it to list the points as: > > Additional fields have the following compatibility rules: > 1. Any additional field whose value must not be ignored for correct handling > of the file will be accompanied by a corresponding incompatible feature bit. I'd like to stress, that incompatible bit is needed for incompatible value, not for the field itself. (So field may be accompanied by incompatible bit for some it's values and for others - not), So, what about 1. If the value of the additional field must not be ignored for correct handling of the file, it will be accompanied by a corresponding incompatible feature bit. > 2. If there are no unrecognized incompatible feature bits set, an additional > field may be safely ignored other than preserving its value when rewriting > the image header. Sounds like we can ignore the field if we know its meaning and know its incompatible bit.. 2. If there are no unrecognized incompatible feature bits set, an unknown additional field may be safely ignored other than preserving its value when rewriting the image header. > 3. An explicit value of 0 will have the same behavior as when the field is > not present. But it may be changed by incompatible bit.. 3. An explicit value of 0 will have the same behavior as when the field is not present, if not altered by specific incompatible bit. > > +It's allowed for the header end to cut some field in the middle (in this case +the field is considered as absent), but in this case the part of the field +which is covered by @header_length must be zeroed. + + < ... No additional fields in the header currently ... > >>> >>> Do we even still need this if we require 8-byte alignment? We'd never be >>> able to cut a single field in the
Re: [PATCH v8 1/3] docs: improve qcow2 spec about extending image header
On 10/18/19 9:36 AM, Vladimir Sementsov-Ogievskiy wrote: Maybe: if software doesn't know how to interpret the field, it may be safely ignored unless a corresponding incompatible feature flag bit is set; however, the field should be preserved unchanged when rewriting the image header. + +For all additional fields zero value equals to absence of field (absence is +when field.offset + field.size > @header_length). This implies +that if software want's to set fields up to some field not aligned to multiply +of 8 it must align header up by zeroes. And on the other hand, if software +need some optional field which is absent it should assume that it's value is +zero. Maybe: Each optional field that does not have a corresponding incompatible feature bit must support the value 0 that gives the same default behavior as when the optional field is omitted. Hmmm. That doesn't work, as "corresponding" is something not actually defined. Consider our zstd extension. It has corresponding incompatible bit, therefore, this sentence doesn't apply to it. But still, if incompatible bit is unset we can have this field. And it's zero value must correspond to the absence of the field. So, additional field may use incomaptible bit only for subset of its values. But, I see, that you want to allow 0 value to not match field-absence if incompatible bit is set? Not necessarily. Rather, if the value of an unknown field can be safely ignored, then it should default to 0. If it cannot be safely ignored, then that field will not be set to a non-zero value without also setting an incompatible feature flag, so that software that does not know how to interpret the field will fail to load the image because it also fails to recognize the associated new incompatible feature bit. But I'd really like Kevin's opinion on how much wording is worth adding. So, may be Additional fields has the following compatible behavior by default: s/has/have/ 1. If software doesn't know how to interpret the field, it may be safely ignored, other than preserving the field unchanged when rewriting the image header. 2. Zeroed additional field gives the same behavior as when this field is omitted. Both good. This default behavior may be altered with help of incompatible feature bits. So, if, for example, additional field has corresponding incompatible feature bit, and it is set, we are sure that software which opens the image knows how to interpret the field, so, 1. The field definitely will not be ignored when corresponding incompatible bit is set. 2. The field may define any meaning it wants for zero value for the case when corresponding incompatible bit is set. Rather wordy but seems accurate. Perhaps compress it to: 3. Any additional field whose value must not be ignored for correct handling of the file will be accompanied by a corresponding incompatible feature bit. and maybe even reorder it to list the points as: Additional fields have the following compatibility rules: 1. Any additional field whose value must not be ignored for correct handling of the file will be accompanied by a corresponding incompatible feature bit. 2. If there are no unrecognized incompatible feature bits set, an additional field may be safely ignored other than preserving its value when rewriting the image header. 3. An explicit value of 0 will have the same behavior as when the field is not present. +It's allowed for the header end to cut some field in the middle (in this case +the field is considered as absent), but in this case the part of the field +which is covered by @header_length must be zeroed. + + < ... No additional fields in the header currently ... > Do we even still need this if we require 8-byte alignment? We'd never be able to cut a single field in the middle hmm, for example: 105: compression byte 106-113: some other 8-bytes field, unalinged 113-119: padding to multiply of 8 - bad example, for sure. But to prevent it, we should also define some field alignment requirements.. , but I suppose you are worried about cutting a 2-field 16-byte addition tied to a single feature in the middle. and this too. But that's not going to happen in practice. why not? 4 bytes: feature 1 4 bytes: feature 2 8 bytes: feature 2 so, last 12 bytes may be considered as one field.. And software which don't know about feature2, will pad header to the middle of feature2 The only time the header will be longer than 104 bytes is if at least one documented optional feature has been implemented/backported, and that feature will be implemented in its entirety. If you backport a later feature but not the earlier, you're still going to set header_length to the boundary of the feature that you ARE backporting. That's true, of course. Thus, I argue that blindly setting header_length to 120 prior to the standard ever defining optional field(s) at 112-120 is premature, and that if we ever
Re: [PATCH v8 1/3] docs: improve qcow2 spec about extending image header
18.10.2019 17:36, Vladimir Sementsov-Ogievskiy wrote: > 18.10.2019 17:00, Eric Blake wrote: >> On 10/18/19 4:47 AM, Vladimir Sementsov-Ogievskiy wrote: >>> Make it more obvious how to add new fields to the version 3 header and >>> how to interpret them. >>> >>> The specification is adjusted so for new defined optional fields: >> >> The specification is adjusted to make it clear that future fields are >> optional: >> >>> >>> 1. Software may support some of these optional fields and ignore the >>> others, which means that features may be backported to downstream >>> Qemu independently. >>> 3. If @header_length is higher than the highest field end that software >>> knows, it should assume that topmost unknown additional fields are >>> correct, and keep additional unknown fields as is on rewriting the >>> image. >>> 3. If we want to add incompatible field (or a field, for which some its >>> values would be incompatible), it must be accompanied by >>> incompatible feature bit. >>> >>> Also the concept of "default is zero" is clarified, as it's strange to >>> say that the value of the field is assumed to be zero for the software >>> version which don't know about the field at all and don't know how to >>> treat it be it zero or not. >>> >> >> I'd also mention that we want to enforce 8-byte alignment in this cover >> letter. >> >>> Signed-off-by: Vladimir Sementsov-Ogievskiy >>> --- >>> docs/interop/qcow2.txt | 26 +++--- >>> 1 file changed, 23 insertions(+), 3 deletions(-) >>> >>> diff --git a/docs/interop/qcow2.txt b/docs/interop/qcow2.txt >>> index af5711e533..4709f3bb30 100644 >>> --- a/docs/interop/qcow2.txt >>> +++ b/docs/interop/qcow2.txt >>> @@ -79,9 +79,9 @@ The first cluster of a qcow2 image contains the file >>> header: >>> Offset into the image file at which the snapshot table >>> starts. Must be aligned to a cluster boundary. >>> -If the version is 3 or higher, the header has the following additional >>> fields. >>> -For version 2, the values are assumed to be zero, unless specified >>> otherwise >>> -in the description of a field. >>> +For version 2, header is always 72 bytes length and finishes here. >>> +For version 3 or higher the header length is at least 104 bytes and has at >>> +least next five fields, up to the @header_length field. >> >> For version 2, the header is exactly 72 bytes in length, and finishes here. >> For version 3 or higher, the header length is at least 104 bytes, including >> the next fields through header_length. >> >>> 72 - 79: incompatible_features >>> Bitmask of incompatible features. An implementation >>> must >>> @@ -164,6 +164,26 @@ in the description of a field. >>> 100 - 103: header_length >>> Length of the header structure in bytes. For version 2 >>> images, the length is always assumed to be 72 bytes. >>> + For version 3 it's at least 104 bytes. >> >> I'd also add a sentence that this field must be a multiple of 8. >> >>> + >>> +Additional fields (version 3 and higher) >>> + >>> +The following fields of the header are optional: if software doesn't know >>> how >>> +to interpret the field, it may be safely ignored, other than preserving the >>> +field unchanged when rewriting the image header. >> >> Maybe: >> >> if software doesn't know how to interpret the field, it may be safely >> ignored unless a corresponding incompatible feature flag bit is set; >> however, the field should be preserved unchanged when rewriting the image >> header. >> >>> + >>> +For all additional fields zero value equals to absence of field (absence is >>> +when field.offset + field.size > @header_length). This implies >>> +that if software want's to set fields up to some field not aligned to >>> multiply >>> +of 8 it must align header up by zeroes. And on the other hand, if software >>> +need some optional field which is absent it should assume that it's value >>> is >>> +zero. >> >> Maybe: >> >> Each optional field that does not have a corresponding incompatible feature >> bit must support the value 0 that gives the same default behavior as when >> the optional field is omitted. > > Hmmm. That doesn't work, as "corresponding" is something not actually > defined. Consider our zstd extension. > > It has corresponding incompatible bit, therefore, this sentence doesn't apply > to it. But still, if incompatible bit is unset we can have this field. And > it's zero value must correspond > to the absence of the field. > > So, additional field may use incomaptible bit only for subset of its values. > > But, I see, that you want to allow 0 value to not match field-absence if > incompatible bit is set? > > So, may be > > Additional fields has the following compatible behavior by default: > > 1. If software doesn't know how to interpret the field, it may be safely >
Re: [PATCH v8 1/3] docs: improve qcow2 spec about extending image header
18.10.2019 17:00, Eric Blake wrote: > On 10/18/19 4:47 AM, Vladimir Sementsov-Ogievskiy wrote: >> Make it more obvious how to add new fields to the version 3 header and >> how to interpret them. >> >> The specification is adjusted so for new defined optional fields: > > The specification is adjusted to make it clear that future fields are > optional: > >> >> 1. Software may support some of these optional fields and ignore the >> others, which means that features may be backported to downstream >> Qemu independently. >> 3. If @header_length is higher than the highest field end that software >> knows, it should assume that topmost unknown additional fields are >> correct, and keep additional unknown fields as is on rewriting the >> image. >> 3. If we want to add incompatible field (or a field, for which some its >> values would be incompatible), it must be accompanied by >> incompatible feature bit. >> >> Also the concept of "default is zero" is clarified, as it's strange to >> say that the value of the field is assumed to be zero for the software >> version which don't know about the field at all and don't know how to >> treat it be it zero or not. >> > > I'd also mention that we want to enforce 8-byte alignment in this cover > letter. > >> Signed-off-by: Vladimir Sementsov-Ogievskiy >> --- >> docs/interop/qcow2.txt | 26 +++--- >> 1 file changed, 23 insertions(+), 3 deletions(-) >> >> diff --git a/docs/interop/qcow2.txt b/docs/interop/qcow2.txt >> index af5711e533..4709f3bb30 100644 >> --- a/docs/interop/qcow2.txt >> +++ b/docs/interop/qcow2.txt >> @@ -79,9 +79,9 @@ The first cluster of a qcow2 image contains the file >> header: >> Offset into the image file at which the snapshot table >> starts. Must be aligned to a cluster boundary. >> -If the version is 3 or higher, the header has the following additional >> fields. >> -For version 2, the values are assumed to be zero, unless specified otherwise >> -in the description of a field. >> +For version 2, header is always 72 bytes length and finishes here. >> +For version 3 or higher the header length is at least 104 bytes and has at >> +least next five fields, up to the @header_length field. > > For version 2, the header is exactly 72 bytes in length, and finishes here. > For version 3 or higher, the header length is at least 104 bytes, including > the next fields through header_length. > >> 72 - 79: incompatible_features >> Bitmask of incompatible features. An implementation >> must >> @@ -164,6 +164,26 @@ in the description of a field. >> 100 - 103: header_length >> Length of the header structure in bytes. For version 2 >> images, the length is always assumed to be 72 bytes. >> + For version 3 it's at least 104 bytes. > > I'd also add a sentence that this field must be a multiple of 8. > >> + >> +Additional fields (version 3 and higher) >> + >> +The following fields of the header are optional: if software doesn't know >> how >> +to interpret the field, it may be safely ignored, other than preserving the >> +field unchanged when rewriting the image header. > > Maybe: > > if software doesn't know how to interpret the field, it may be safely ignored > unless a corresponding incompatible feature flag bit is set; however, the > field should be preserved unchanged when rewriting the image header. > >> + >> +For all additional fields zero value equals to absence of field (absence is >> +when field.offset + field.size > @header_length). This implies >> +that if software want's to set fields up to some field not aligned to >> multiply >> +of 8 it must align header up by zeroes. And on the other hand, if software >> +need some optional field which is absent it should assume that it's value is >> +zero. > > Maybe: > > Each optional field that does not have a corresponding incompatible feature > bit must support the value 0 that gives the same default behavior as when the > optional field is omitted. Hmmm. That doesn't work, as "corresponding" is something not actually defined. Consider our zstd extension. It has corresponding incompatible bit, therefore, this sentence doesn't apply to it. But still, if incompatible bit is unset we can have this field. And it's zero value must correspond to the absence of the field. So, additional field may use incomaptible bit only for subset of its values. But, I see, that you want to allow 0 value to not match field-absence if incompatible bit is set? So, may be Additional fields has the following compatible behavior by default: 1. If software doesn't know how to interpret the field, it may be safely ignored, other than preserving the field unchanged when rewriting the image header. 2. Zeroed additional field gives the same behavior as when this field is omitted. This default behavior may be
Re: [PATCH v8 1/3] docs: improve qcow2 spec about extending image header
On 10/18/19 4:47 AM, Vladimir Sementsov-Ogievskiy wrote: Make it more obvious how to add new fields to the version 3 header and how to interpret them. The specification is adjusted so for new defined optional fields: The specification is adjusted to make it clear that future fields are optional: 1. Software may support some of these optional fields and ignore the others, which means that features may be backported to downstream Qemu independently. 3. If @header_length is higher than the highest field end that software knows, it should assume that topmost unknown additional fields are correct, and keep additional unknown fields as is on rewriting the image. 3. If we want to add incompatible field (or a field, for which some its values would be incompatible), it must be accompanied by incompatible feature bit. Also the concept of "default is zero" is clarified, as it's strange to say that the value of the field is assumed to be zero for the software version which don't know about the field at all and don't know how to treat it be it zero or not. I'd also mention that we want to enforce 8-byte alignment in this cover letter. Signed-off-by: Vladimir Sementsov-Ogievskiy --- docs/interop/qcow2.txt | 26 +++--- 1 file changed, 23 insertions(+), 3 deletions(-) diff --git a/docs/interop/qcow2.txt b/docs/interop/qcow2.txt index af5711e533..4709f3bb30 100644 --- a/docs/interop/qcow2.txt +++ b/docs/interop/qcow2.txt @@ -79,9 +79,9 @@ The first cluster of a qcow2 image contains the file header: Offset into the image file at which the snapshot table starts. Must be aligned to a cluster boundary. -If the version is 3 or higher, the header has the following additional fields. -For version 2, the values are assumed to be zero, unless specified otherwise -in the description of a field. +For version 2, header is always 72 bytes length and finishes here. +For version 3 or higher the header length is at least 104 bytes and has at +least next five fields, up to the @header_length field. For version 2, the header is exactly 72 bytes in length, and finishes here. For version 3 or higher, the header length is at least 104 bytes, including the next fields through header_length. 72 - 79: incompatible_features Bitmask of incompatible features. An implementation must @@ -164,6 +164,26 @@ in the description of a field. 100 - 103: header_length Length of the header structure in bytes. For version 2 images, the length is always assumed to be 72 bytes. +For version 3 it's at least 104 bytes. I'd also add a sentence that this field must be a multiple of 8. + +Additional fields (version 3 and higher) + +The following fields of the header are optional: if software doesn't know how +to interpret the field, it may be safely ignored, other than preserving the +field unchanged when rewriting the image header. Maybe: if software doesn't know how to interpret the field, it may be safely ignored unless a corresponding incompatible feature flag bit is set; however, the field should be preserved unchanged when rewriting the image header. + +For all additional fields zero value equals to absence of field (absence is +when field.offset + field.size > @header_length). This implies +that if software want's to set fields up to some field not aligned to multiply +of 8 it must align header up by zeroes. And on the other hand, if software +need some optional field which is absent it should assume that it's value is +zero. Maybe: Each optional field that does not have a corresponding incompatible feature bit must support the value 0 that gives the same default behavior as when the optional field is omitted. + +It's allowed for the header end to cut some field in the middle (in this case +the field is considered as absent), but in this case the part of the field +which is covered by @header_length must be zeroed. + +< ... No additional fields in the header currently ... > Do we even still need this if we require 8-byte alignment? We'd never be able to cut a single field in the middle, but I suppose you are worried about cutting a 2-field 16-byte addition tied to a single feature in the middle. But that's not going to happen in practice. The only time the header will be longer than 104 bytes is if at least one documented optional feature has been implemented/backported, and that feature will be implemented in its entirety. If you backport a later feature but not the earlier, you're still going to set header_length to the boundary of the feature that you ARE backporting. Thus, I argue that blindly setting header_length to 120 prior to the standard ever defining optional field(s) at 112-120 is premature, and that if we ever add a feature requiring bytes 112-128 for a new feature,
