Re: [QGIS-Developer] How are Featured Plugins Chosen?

[Paolo Cavallini]

Il 02/02/2018 13:04, Tom Chadwin ha scritto:

> I guess we just need to ask "Is there a problem which needs to be solved?"
> before deciding what to do.

problems IMHO are:
* users can get confused by several similar plugins; additional criteria
to decide will help
* developers often partially or totally replicate the work of others,
instead of merging forces; an easy way to check more popular plugins
could give a way to decide to merge instead of starting over.
All the best.
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Re: [QGIS-Developer] How are Featured Plugins Chosen?

[Tom Chadwin]

DelazJ wrote
> This statement assumes that having a higher number of
> downloads is more important for plugin devs than having a more featured or
> less buggy plugin.

No, I certainly didn't say it was more important. I think it is important as
evidence not just of size of userbase (indicated by number of installations
of a single version), but also of how trustworthy the userbase finds the
plugin (indicated by the fact that the total of downloads across a long
history of versions is high).


DelazJ wrote
> And while having a large user base is for sure
> rewarding, i'm pretty sure (and I guess you, too) it's not the objective
> of
> most of the developers. I think the best way to have that "recognition" is
> to provide working and stable plugin.

I'm not talking about reward or recognition for devs. I'm talking about
perceived maturity and trustworthiness of software. This is profoundly
important to get traction in corporate/public-sector organizations.
Quantitative evidence is often used/requested for proposals in such arenas
(whether rightly or wrongly). It's easier for me to build a case for QGIS as
a web mapping tool via qgis2web compared to ArcGIS Online if I can point to
approaching 0.25m downloads of the plugin. Yes, it's a questionable figure,
but it has some legitimacy, and definitely some persuasive power.


DelazJ wrote
> one can also argue that the
> current system is a "good" reason to push devs regularly publish new
> versions, whether heavily tested or not (knowing or expecting that their
> user base will update, once again).

Yes, I think that's valid. That's why I'm not talking about this figure as
being the *only* indicator of plugin quality - far from it.


DelazJ wrote
> Maybe a solution will be to show both values (sum and max), but still it
> doesn't help to decide whether a plugin is eligible to the "Most popular"
> list.

No, I don't think we say "popular", nor should we, for all the reasons we
have discussed.

I guess we just need to ask "Is there a problem which needs to be solved?"
before deciding what to do.

Thanks

Tom



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Re: [QGIS-Developer] How are Featured Plugins Chosen?

[Paolo Cavallini]

Il 02/02/2018 12:47, Alexander Bruy ha scritto:

>> Btw, for new (version of) plugins it could be nice to show their changelog
>> in Plugin manager before user downloads it (another feature request, sorry!).
> 
> This functionality was available for years. But most of the users don't bother
> with reading what devs wrote in the plugin metadata.

yes, as it stands has little relevance; that's why I'm suggesting to add
more sugar to it, making it more prominent and kindly pushing users to
cast their vote, add comments etc.
all the best.

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Re: [QGIS-Developer] How are Featured Plugins Chosen?

[Alexander Bruy]

2018-02-02 14:13 GMT+02:00 DelazJ :
> Why would someone update a code if there's no reason?

Are new features and bugfixes count as reason?

> Btw, for new (version of) plugins it could be nice to show their changelog
> in Plugin manager before user downloads it (another feature request, sorry!).

This functionality was available for years. But most of the users don't bother
with reading what devs wrote in the plugin metadata.

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Re: [QGIS-Developer] How are Featured Plugins Chosen?

[Paolo Cavallini]

Il 02/02/2018 12:13, DelazJ ha scritto:

> Maybe a solution will be to show both values (sum and max), but still it
> doesn't help to decide whether a plugin is eligible to the "Most
> popular" list. Anyway, I think that, like for featured plugins, a fairer
> solution needs to be found here too.

while being passionate about stats, I still believe in this case user
feedback and rating is our best option here.
not by chance is the way we all choose apps on our phones.
all the best.
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Re: [QGIS-Developer] How are Featured Plugins Chosen?

[DelazJ]

Hi Tom,

2018-02-01 13:43 GMT+01:00 Tom Chadwin :

> Hi Harrissou
>
> My argument against that is that it encourages plugin authors not to update
> their plugins.


Allow me to disagree. This statement assumes that having a higher number of
downloads is more important for plugin devs than having a more featured or
less buggy plugin. And while having a large user base is for sure
rewarding, i'm pretty sure (and I guess you, too) it's not the objective of
most of the developers. I think the best way to have that "recognition" is
to provide working and stable plugin.
Why would someone update a code if there's no reason? Not all plugins out
there are based on different/upstream libraries: some are just few lines
extending current capabilities of QGIS. As long as it works without bugs
and is still compatible with newer versions of QGIS, why updating?
I don't think that there's a good reason to "hide" them.

As users are probably aware, I release versions often. This
> means that a single version never gets very high in usage numbers. I would
> argue that "release early, release often" is A Good Thing, assuming plugin
> versions are tested and stable.
>
> Following the above-mentioned assumption, one can also argue that the
current system is a "good" reason to push devs regularly publish new
versions, whether heavily tested or not (knowing or expecting that their
user base will update, once again). Btw, for new (version of) plugins it
could be nice to show their changelog in Plugin manager before user
downloads it (another feature request, sorry!).

Maybe a solution will be to show both values (sum and max), but still it
doesn't help to decide whether a plugin is eligible to the "Most popular"
list. Anyway, I think that, like for featured plugins, a fairer solution
needs to be found here too.

Regards,
Harrissou

Thanks
>
> Tom
>
>
>
> -
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Re: [QGIS-Developer] How are Featured Plugins Chosen?

[Tom Chadwin]

Hi Harrissou

My argument against that is that it encourages plugin authors not to update
their plugins. As users are probably aware, I release versions often. This
means that a single version never gets very high in usage numbers. I would
argue that "release early, release often" is A Good Thing, assuming plugin
versions are tested and stable.

Thanks

Tom



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Re: [QGIS-Developer] How are Featured Plugins Chosen?

[DelazJ]

Hi,

Agreed with Tom about qgis2threejs not being replaced by QGIS 3D.

One thing I think could also help to better identify the most used plugins
by the community is reviewing the stats shown. I mean, some plugins have a
lot of versions, meaning that a user might have downloaded many times the
same plugin (sometimes, twice in a month) but afaict, the stats shown is
the sum of all versions. This can also mislead users because you think that
the bigger user base the better a plugin might be.
We should either show:
- the maximum of the downloads (all versions included )
- the mean of all (stable) downloads
- or the latest version download (or the max between the current and the
previous version)
This way, it'll also be fair for the plugin authors that thoroughly tested
their plugins before releasing it as stable, hence have few number of
versions (and less multidownloads to count). And there will be more chance
for turnover at the top when sorting the plugins list by number of
downloads or looking to the most popular list.

my 2cts,
Harrissou

2018-02-01 12:26 GMT+01:00 Paolo Cavallini :

> Il 01/02/2018 11:25, Tom Chadwin ha scritto:
> > Only one specific comment: I don't think qgis2threejs is less important
> with
> > the arrival of QGIS3 3D functionality. The latter doesn't allow easy
> export
> > to the web, so I think the plugin is still very very important, and
> should
> > be featured.
>
> as I mentioned, it will always be very difficult to choose, so user
> feedback is usually more important than our opinion
> thanks Tom
> --
> Paolo Cavallini - www.faunalia.eu
> QGIS & PostGIS courses: http://www.faunalia.eu/training.html
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Re: [QGIS-Developer] How are Featured Plugins Chosen?

[Paolo Cavallini]

Il 01/02/2018 11:25, Tom Chadwin ha scritto:
> Only one specific comment: I don't think qgis2threejs is less important with
> the arrival of QGIS3 3D functionality. The latter doesn't allow easy export
> to the web, so I think the plugin is still very very important, and should
> be featured.

as I mentioned, it will always be very difficult to choose, so user
feedback is usually more important than our opinion
thanks Tom
-- 
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Re: [QGIS-Developer] How are Featured Plugins Chosen?

[Tom Chadwin]

Only one specific comment: I don't think qgis2threejs is less important with
the arrival of QGIS3 3D functionality. The latter doesn't allow easy export
to the web, so I think the plugin is still very very important, and should
be featured.

Thanks

Tom



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Re: [QGIS-Developer] How are Featured Plugins Chosen?

[Paolo Cavallini]

Thanks Chris for your suggestions.
I'll do my best to implement some of them. More opinions and help will
be welcome.
All the best.

Il 31/01/2018 16:18, C Hamilton ha scritto:
> Here are my suggestions taking into account that this is highly
> subjective and different users are going to have their favorite plugins.
> Featured plugins should be bug free and have good
> documentation/tutorials on how to use them. Featured plugins should fall
> into one of several categories.
> 
> 1. Semi-permanent plugins that are used by a broad user community. (I
> wish there were a way to know what plugins people actually use - not
> just download.) The ones on the current list that I would place in this
> category are:
>     a. qgis2web
>     b. QuickMapServices - It may be that is becoming less important
> because of the XYZ Tile Server
>     c. Quick Finder
>     d. Time Manager - Perhaps this should be in category 2 although I
> use it.
> 
> 2. Plugins that have a high value to a part of the user community and I
> think they should be featured but not all the time. The ones currently
> in the list that I would place in this category are:
>     a. LRS - Useful to a small set of users
>     b. Qgis2threejs - Really cool visualization, but once again I think
> it is a smaller set of users
>     c. ScriptRunner - Useful for programmers.
>     d. Plugin Builder - Useful for beginning plugin developers.
> 
> 3. Plugins that are new that have some unique capability or have been
> evaluated to have a big impact.
> 
> The following plugins that are on the Featured plugin list I would
> suggest removing or perhaps occasionally rotating them through. I am not
> suggesting that they are not important. I'm sure that those who
> developed them use them, but I think they have a smaller user community
> so perhaps others should be highlighted. These include:
>     a. Layer Board
>     b. QConsolidate - Note that its plugin home page link is broken.
>     c. lizmap
>     d. Item Browser
>     e. GeoCoding - I like Quick Finder better
>    
> The following plugins could be candidates for occasional inclusion as
> least on a rotating bases.
>     a. Copy Canvas to Clipboard - This is a small set of people but
> useful if you want a snapshot of the canvas.
>     b. Data Plotly - QGIS 3 plugin so perhaps it should not be included
> until QGIS 3 becomes more mainstream, but it has great potential.
>     c. Lat Lon Tools - One of my most used plugins, but I am kind of biased.
>     d. Profile tool - I have used this on a number of occasions, but it
> needs better documentation
>     e. Split Features On Steroids - This is a newer plugin that I have
> found to be quite useful.
>     f. QGIS Resource Sharing - Should at least be featured sometime.
>     g. pgRoutingLayer - Important for those doing map routing.
>     h. Shape Tools - Another one I use, but once again I am very biased.
>     i. Other analysis plugins, but I am not sure which ones should be
> placed on this list. 'Hotspot Analysis' could be cool if it ever gets
> out of the experimental stage.
>    
> Quite frankly I am not sure how to judge candidates for inclusion
> because I am not looking at all of them and my interests and needs are
> going to be different from the next user, but it would be nice to
> feature different plugins that are unique to a set of the user community
> or different categories of plugins, why they are useful, and to have a
> nice write up about them.
> 
> Best wishes,
> 
> Calvin
> 
> On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 4:28 AM, Paolo Cavallini  > wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> thanks for this question. I confirm that the choice is subjective, done
> by the many people included in the staff of plugin management. As
> pointed out, this has been neglected in recent times. I'd welcome any
> suggestion on plugins to include in or remove from the list.
> One related issue is how to give more emphasis on user ratings: this
> could be a useful guide for others, but has been underutilized, and not
> prominently exposed. Ideas and contributions on this also welcomed.
> All the best.
> 


-- 
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Re: [QGIS-Developer] How are Featured Plugins Chosen?

[C Hamilton]

Here are my suggestions taking into account that this is highly subjective
and different users are going to have their favorite plugins. Featured
plugins should be bug free and have good documentation/tutorials on how to
use them. Featured plugins should fall into one of several categories.

1. Semi-permanent plugins that are used by a broad user community. (I wish
there were a way to know what plugins people actually use - not just
download.) The ones on the current list that I would place in this category
are:
a. qgis2web
b. QuickMapServices - It may be that is becoming less important because
of the XYZ Tile Server
c. Quick Finder
d. Time Manager - Perhaps this should be in category 2 although I use
it.

2. Plugins that have a high value to a part of the user community and I
think they should be featured but not all the time. The ones currently in
the list that I would place in this category are:
a. LRS - Useful to a small set of users
b. Qgis2threejs - Really cool visualization, but once again I think it
is a smaller set of users
c. ScriptRunner - Useful for programmers.
d. Plugin Builder - Useful for beginning plugin developers.

3. Plugins that are new that have some unique capability or have been
evaluated to have a big impact.

The following plugins that are on the Featured plugin list I would suggest
removing or perhaps occasionally rotating them through. I am not suggesting
that they are not important. I'm sure that those who developed them use
them, but I think they have a smaller user community so perhaps others
should be highlighted. These include:
a. Layer Board
b. QConsolidate - Note that its plugin home page link is broken.
c. lizmap
d. Item Browser
e. GeoCoding - I like Quick Finder better

The following plugins could be candidates for occasional inclusion as least
on a rotating bases.
a. Copy Canvas to Clipboard - This is a small set of people but useful
if you want a snapshot of the canvas.
b. Data Plotly - QGIS 3 plugin so perhaps it should not be included
until QGIS 3 becomes more mainstream, but it has great potential.
c. Lat Lon Tools - One of my most used plugins, but I am kind of biased.
d. Profile tool - I have used this on a number of occasions, but it
needs better documentation
e. Split Features On Steroids - This is a newer plugin that I have
found to be quite useful.
f. QGIS Resource Sharing - Should at least be featured sometime.
g. pgRoutingLayer - Important for those doing map routing.
h. Shape Tools - Another one I use, but once again I am very biased.
i. Other analysis plugins, but I am not sure which ones should be
placed on this list. 'Hotspot Analysis' could be cool if it ever gets out
of the experimental stage.

Quite frankly I am not sure how to judge candidates for inclusion because I
am not looking at all of them and my interests and needs are going to be
different from the next user, but it would be nice to feature different
plugins that are unique to a set of the user community or different
categories of plugins, why they are useful, and to have a nice write up
about them.

Best wishes,

Calvin

On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 4:28 AM, Paolo Cavallini 
wrote:

> Hi all,
> thanks for this question. I confirm that the choice is subjective, done
> by the many people included in the staff of plugin management. As
> pointed out, this has been neglected in recent times. I'd welcome any
> suggestion on plugins to include in or remove from the list.
> One related issue is how to give more emphasis on user ratings: this
> could be a useful guide for others, but has been underutilized, and not
> prominently exposed. Ideas and contributions on this also welcomed.
> All the best.
>
>
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Re: [QGIS-Developer] How are Featured Plugins Chosen?

[C Hamilton]

Ignore that last e-mail. It was fat fingered and automatically sent. I am
going to prepare the e-mail outside of firefox so I don't do that again.

On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 9:46 AM, C Hamilton  wrote:

> Here are my suggestions taking into account that this is highly subjective
> and different users are going to have their favorite plugins. I think
> featured plugins should include...
> 1. Semi-permanent plugins in the list that are used by a broad user
> community. The ones on the current list that I would place in this category
> are:
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 4:28 AM, Paolo Cavallini 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>> thanks for this question. I confirm that the choice is subjective, done
>> by the many people included in the staff of plugin management. As
>> pointed out, this has been neglected in recent times. I'd welcome any
>> suggestion on plugins to include in or remove from the list.
>> One related issue is how to give more emphasis on user ratings: this
>> could be a useful guide for others, but has been underutilized, and not
>> prominently exposed. Ideas and contributions on this also welcomed.
>> All the best.
>>
>>
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Re: [QGIS-Developer] How are Featured Plugins Chosen?

[C Hamilton]

Here are my suggestions taking into account that this is highly subjective
and different users are going to have their favorite plugins. I think
featured plugins should include...
1. Semi-permanent plugins in the list that are used by a broad user
community. The ones on the current list that I would place in this category
are:


On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 4:28 AM, Paolo Cavallini 
wrote:

> Hi all,
> thanks for this question. I confirm that the choice is subjective, done
> by the many people included in the staff of plugin management. As
> pointed out, this has been neglected in recent times. I'd welcome any
> suggestion on plugins to include in or remove from the list.
> One related issue is how to give more emphasis on user ratings: this
> could be a useful guide for others, but has been underutilized, and not
> prominently exposed. Ideas and contributions on this also welcomed.
> All the best.
>
>
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Re: [QGIS-Developer] How are Featured Plugins Chosen?

[Paolo Cavallini]

Hi all,
thanks for this question. I confirm that the choice is subjective, done
by the many people included in the staff of plugin management. As
pointed out, this has been neglected in recent times. I'd welcome any
suggestion on plugins to include in or remove from the list.
One related issue is how to give more emphasis on user ratings: this
could be a useful guide for others, but has been underutilized, and not
prominently exposed. Ideas and contributions on this also welcomed.
All the best.

Il 30/01/2018 19:26, Tom Chadwin ha scritto:
> It's a list manually curated by the devs. The idea is that there are lots of
> other objective stats on the plugins website to give people quantitative
> data about different plugins, so this is some kind of qualitative judgement.
> 
> That said, I guess the list needs consideration. Should plugins only
> available for QGIS 2 be in the list, once QGIS 3 has been launched? 
> 
> Tom
> 
> 
> 
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> Buy Pie Spy: Adventures in British pastry 2010-11 on Amazon 
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Re: [QGIS-Developer] How are Featured Plugins Chosen?

[Tom Chadwin]

It's a list manually curated by the devs. The idea is that there are lots of
other objective stats on the plugins website to give people quantitative
data about different plugins, so this is some kind of qualitative judgement.

That said, I guess the list needs consideration. Should plugins only
available for QGIS 2 be in the list, once QGIS 3 has been launched? 

Tom



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Re: [QGIS-Developer] How are Featured Plugins Chosen?

[Tobias Wendorff]

Hi there,

Am Di, 30.01.2018, 18:39 schrieb C Hamilton:
> I haven't really monitored
> them, but when ever I look they seem like they are about the same set.

Interesting question.

Many websites advertise the number of downloads, which I consider to
be total nonsense. Interesting would be a rating like "usage per month".
Even installations per month don't make sense to me, because I have
installed some plugins that I don't use - I'm just too lazy to
uninstall them :)

BUT this would make some plugins stay on the top forever...

Maybe you should also consider how well a plugin is documented and
whether there are examples. This could give a more positive assessment,
With many plugins I have no idea how to use them at all.

Best regards,
Tobias

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