Re: [Ql-Users] QL USB Interface
Adrian D. Ives wrote, On 28/10/09 17:15: Tony, I have put a request into Crownhill asking for some technical documentation and will do some investigations of my own. If possible, It would be nice to have a design that didn't require other hardware to be present in the QL, besides the obligatory glue. As for the driver, I don't know the current hard disk drivers in any detail, but at some point I assume they must make an IO call to get/set a specific sector or block (or range of sectors/blocks), so that's where I would start looking for opportunities to reuse the existing code. I suppose the ideal situation might be that there are USBWiz commands to read and store a numbered logical block. Then you *might* be able replace the code in the existing drivers that communicates with the ATA controller, with some glue code that communicates with the USBWiz instead. That has to be a starting point. I know I'm greatly over-simplifying things here, and probably talking bollocks, but it seems possible to me. In any event, it's an interesting discussion to have. Indeed. It seemed at a very quick look in the manual, thta they had made the serial communication *vry* straightforward. The only obvious silly aspect of the hardware design is that there is serial but no RS232 voltages. It needs a Maxim style chip. superHermes uses such a chip. It would need to use the QLs +-12v as well. Mind you I got away with using TTL using a Diablo daisy wheel terminal with a QL, way back in 1985 or so. I think '-12' works at anything less than .2v or so. That was out only though and very slow baud rate of 300. To get 460800 is a totally different game (8-)# You are very welcome to have my two USBwiz, or are you a software man only? I guess if someone was looking at the software I might find time to make up a circuit. Tony -- QBBS (QL fido BBS 2:257/67) +44(0)1442-828255 t...@firshman.co.uk http://firshman.co.uk Voice: +44(0)1442-828254 Fax: +44(0)1442-828255 Skype: tonyfirshman TF Services, 29 Longfield Road, TRING, Herts, HP23 4DG ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] QL USB Interface
Tony, I'm able to do the hardware side, but my area is really in the software. If you were able to knock up some kind of interface between the superHermes (which I have) and the USBWiz I'm prepared to put in the time to look at the software. As I'd do this work on an Aurora QL, the ideal prototype for me would be something I could just plug into one of the 9 pin D connectors on the superHermes-enhanced standard serial ports, but if it needs to be connected straight to the SH inside the case that's no problem. It doesn't *sound* like a huge job but, as we know, there's always something... :( For me, the first step in the software would be to knock up a simple Development Workbench application that would send commands to the USBWiz and display the responses. From there, I'd need to develop some kind of QDOS API. Then, if that all worked, my next step would be to modify the QUBIDE source to invoke the USBWiz API. It all sounds so easy when put like that, but I haven't even looked at the QUBIDE sources yet to see the extent of the task. I'm also starting to think of things like getting the drive characteristics and whether the USBWiz has direct block/sector access or is just a high level file-oriented interface. If the latter, it might be possible to use a virtual filing system in a container file. Anyway, I'll start looking at the QUBIDE stuff over the weekend. So, if you're interested in collaborating on a prototype, I'm up for it. My idea would be to do this with as much reuse and as little bespoke hardware development as possible. That probably makes superHermes a prerequisite, as developing a ROM port card, or something for the expansion bus would likely be prohibitively expensive. Adrian --- On Thursday, October 29, 2009, 7:47:25 AM, you wrote: TF Indeed. It seemed at a very quick look in the manual, thta they had TF made the serial communication *vry* straightforward. TF The only obvious silly aspect of the hardware design is that there is TF serial but no RS232 voltages. TF It needs a Maxim style chip. superHermes uses such a chip. It would need TF to use the QLs +-12v as well. TF Mind you I got away with using TTL using a Diablo daisy wheel terminal TF with a QL, way back in 1985 or so. TF I think '-12' works at anything less than .2v or so. TF That was out only though and very slow baud rate of 300. TF To get 460800 is a totally different game (8-)# TF You are very welcome to have my two USBwiz, or are you a software man only? TF I guess if someone was looking at the software I might find time to make TF up a circuit. TF Tony ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] QL USB Interface
Adrian D. Ives wrote, On 29/10/09 08:59: Tony, I'm able to do the hardware side, but my area is really in the software. If you were able to knock up some kind of interface between the superHermes (which I have) and the USBWiz I'm prepared to put in the time to look at the software. As I'd do this work on an Aurora QL, the ideal prototype for me would be something I could just plug into one of the 9 pin D connectors on the superHermes-enhanced standard serial ports, but if it needs to be connected straight to the SH inside the case that's no problem. It doesn't *sound* like a huge job but, as we know, there's always something... :( Do you really have a 9D lead connected to your sH? I thought I made only 25D. It will be great to see sH serial working at its full speed. I am a mite rusty, but I think that the highest ser3 baud rate is actually 230400. USBwiz can go much higher than that I think. Input throughput is controlled by how fast the QL can process the data. 57.6K seems the maximum to RAM (with SGC). Mind you that was with qtpi, so maybe higher speeds are possible. For me, the first step in the software would be to knock up a simple Development Workbench application that would send commands to the USBWiz and display the responses. From there, I'd need to develop some kind of QDOS API. Then, if that all worked, my next step would be to modify the QUBIDE source to invoke the USBWiz API. It all sounds so easy when put like that, but I haven't even looked at the QUBIDE sources yet to see the extent of the task. Phil Borman should be able to help here. Quanta will have contact details. He was incredibly helpful (twice) when I had dead hard disks. We recovered the file system manually. I'm also starting to think of things like getting the drive characteristics and whether the USBWiz has direct block/sector access or is just a high level file-oriented interface. High level I am sure - they were talking about FAT 8.3 which suggests that. Mind you maybe it is hackable (8-)# If the latter, it might be possible to use a virtual filing system in a container file. Anyway, I'll start looking at the QUBIDE stuff over the weekend. So, if you're interested in collaborating on a prototype, I'm up for it. My idea would be to do this with as much reuse and as little bespoke hardware development as possible. That probably makes superHermes a prerequisite, as developing a ROM port card, or something for the expansion bus would likely be prohibitively expensive. Yes sH is essential. Imagine having to work at 4800bps (std QL) or roughly 14000+ (Hermes). I bought the USBwiz ages ago, announced it here, but had no response. It is now certainly worth getting a hardware mockup. Come to think of it, as the USBwiz interface is TTL, initially it could be all done using the TTL serial from sH. I will see if I have a sH I can modify to send TTL on its ser3.. It is devious for sH to create RS232, and for usbWIZ box to convert back to TTL. This is a bit like using a serial mouse which has to do precisely that. I see sH has the nominal +-10V and GND on its low speed serial ports, and 5V/GND on its spare port. That would be a great way of getting power to the USBwiz in the final version. or I might make up a vero circuit and lead from the start and use RS232. We ought to go private on this now to avoid boring everyone (8-)# I am very busy right now (Lucerne for the next three days and bathroom building in London). Realistically it will be a few weeks for a prototype. Tony -- QBBS (QL fido BBS 2:257/67) +44(0)1442-828255 t...@firshman.co.uk http://firshman.co.uk Voice: +44(0)1442-828254 Fax: +44(0)1442-828255 Skype: tonyfirshman TF Services, 29 Longfield Road, TRING, Herts, HP23 4DG ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] QPC2 screen size
Hi, Hmm, when I do that here, I get value out of range, wich seems reasonable Wolfgang try OPEN#3,con BORDER#3,2400,2 ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] QPC2 screen size
On 29 Oct 2009, at 10:42, Wolfgang Lenerz wrote: Hmm, when I do that here, I get value out of range, wich seems reasonable Wolfgang try OPEN#3,con BORDER#3,2400,2 ___ What is the QLsize? What are scr_xlim and scr_ylim? I certainly get value out of range for smaller values or border size. But try BORDER#4,32000,2 for example. George ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] QPC2 screen size
Wolfgang Lenerz wrote: Hmm, when I do that here, I get value out of range, wich seems reasonable I get that two, on the first try. On the second directly afterwards it crashes ;-) No time to investigate, though, need to work on my presentation for QL is 25... Marcel ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] QL USB Interface
In message 4ae9663a.2070...@firshman.co.uk, Tony Firshman t...@firshman.co.uk writes Hi, I did look at the USBWiz when you alerted us all to the hardware. Great that some discussion on this list may lead to a potential project for hardware and software, in collaboration with the two of you. Good luck with it ! Adrian D. Ives wrote, On 29/10/09 08:59: Tony, I'm able to do the hardware side, but my area is really in the software. If you were able to knock up some kind of interface between the superHermes (which I have) and the USBWiz I'm prepared to put in the time to look at the software. As I'd do this work on an Aurora QL, the ideal prototype for me would be something I could just plug into one of the 9 pin D connectors on the superHermes-enhanced standard serial ports, but if it needs to be connected straight to the SH inside the case that's no problem. It doesn't *sound* like a huge job but, as we know, there's always something... :( -- Malcolm Cadman ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] QL USB Interface
On Thu, 29 Oct 2009 09:59:55 +0100, Adrian D. Ives adrian.i...@ntlworld.com wrote: Tony, I'm able to do the hardware side, but my area is really in the software. If you were able to knock up some kind of interface between the superHermes (which I have) and the USBWiz I'm prepared to put in the time to look at the software. TF The only obvious silly aspect of the hardware design is that there is TF serial but no RS232 voltages. TF It needs a Maxim style chip. The reason why they do serial at TTL levels is that in general MAX232 style drivers don't do well over 230400. Surprisingly waveforms look just fine at 230400, suggesting 4-5x higher speeds are possible, but it won't do even twice that. First hand knowledge since I am dealing with a 1 or 2 megabit seril link here on a daily basis... Nasta ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] QL USB Interface
ZN wrote, On 29/10/09 13:42: On Thu, 29 Oct 2009 09:59:55 +0100, Adrian D. Ives adrian.i...@ntlworld.com wrote: Tony, I'm able to do the hardware side, but my area is really in the software. If you were able to knock up some kind of interface between the superHermes (which I have) and the USBWiz I'm prepared to put in the time to look at the software. TF The only obvious silly aspect of the hardware design is that there is TF serial but no RS232 voltages. TF It needs a Maxim style chip. The reason why they do serial at TTL levels is that in general MAX232 style drivers don't do well over 230400. Surprisingly waveforms look just fine at 230400, suggesting 4-5x higher speeds are possible, but it won't do even twice that. First hand knowledge since I am dealing with a 1 or 2 megabit seril link here on a daily basis... Hallo Nasta - nice to see you are reading this (8-)# Thanks for the input. Well sH is max (sorry for the pun) 230400 (I think) so the max style driver is just fine. I will use my existing stock of the sH MC145407. Tony -- QBBS (QL fido BBS 2:257/67) +44(0)1442-828255 t...@firshman.co.uk http://firshman.co.uk Voice: +44(0)1442-828254 Fax: +44(0)1442-828255 Skype: tonyfirshman TF Services, 29 Longfield Road, TRING, Herts, HP23 4DG ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] QL USB Interface
On Thu, 29 Oct 2009 15:46:34 +0100, Tony Firshman t...@firshman.co.uk wrote: Hallo Nasta - nice to see you are reading this (8-)# I am, when i can - not only does time not permit it often, but my provider tends to lose a lot of messages, either receiving or transmitting :( Thanks for the input. Well sH is max (sorry for the pun) 230400 (I think) so the max style driver is just fine. I will use my existing stock of the sH MC145407. Tony MC145407 seems to do better. Also, what Malcolm said - things like this are not intended to be connected with long cables so that RS232C levels are needed. Over short distances TTL (actually HCMOS) will do fine just keep in mind the driver chips perform signal inversion. ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
