Re: [Ql-Users] Assembly Language Mailing List News
Hi Norman, I read the PDF version on my Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1 and the mobi version on a Kindle, I much prefer the kindle version. But I think for flexibility all formats should be availabile, or even if there were only ePub, I would convert the file with Calibre to mobi format. But I thought it was very readable and am looking forward to future editions. Regards, Derek On 20/03/2014 20:12, Norman Dunbar wrote: Evening all, the latest news from the Assembly language mailing list is: 1. Kindle version now available. Issue 1 of the QL Today Memorial Assembly Language Mailing List irregular eMagazine is now available in a fourth flavour, added just today we now have: MOBI (aka Kindle) - qdosmsq.dunbar-it.co.uk/downloads/AssemblyLanguage/Issue_001/Assembly_Language_001.mobi * You can download the Mobi version and then transfer it to your Kindle via the USB, or; * You can send the file directly to your Kindle using your Kindle's email address (You can find this under settings on your device) - however, make sure you are on WiFi otherwise Amazon will charge you for this service if you have or use 3G to download the file. 2. The amount of feedback I have had on Issue 1 so far has been a resoundingly huge amount of nothing! :-( Has anyone read it? Do you like it? What don't you like? Is the format reasonable? What would you like to see changed? Does it look ok on your eReader, if you use one? Do you prefer HTML, PDF, ePub or Mobi? Do you have any questions? Will George find something wrong? ;-) (I hope so!) Etc? Anyway, enjoy the added flavour! Cheers, Norm. ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
[Ql-Users] New QL
Hi, Just spotted this for $65. It's able to run a 68K core with 32MB RAM, 4096 VGA, and USB and SD/MMC slot. Source for the 68K is available for download. http://www.fleasystems.com/fleaFPGA.html Malcolm ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] Assembly Language Mailing List News
Yo! Norman, Apologies for lack of feedback. I guess I thought youd be inundated with acclaim and would therefore not notice ;o) But this is QL-land, of course. I should have remembered.. I dont actively program at the moment, just skim through the text and listings to remind myself what its all about. Your tutorial (so far) seems a solid piece of work, beautifully executed! I prefer the html version, but it is messy to archive due to all the little files, so after reading I keep only a copy of the pdf for future reference. I dont have readers for the other versions.. When I started programming in assembler, the first hurdle was getting my head round the logistics: How to get the code into the machine? It seems trivial now, and everyone who already knows takes it all for granted (an additional problem for those who dont). I started with the Metacomco Assembler package. It was the best, most professional solution at the time, but far too technical for a punter, not in a technical or academic environment, trying to figure out things on his ownsome. Then along came the Computer One assembler, a simple, integrated package, without a linker or library tools to complicate matters. Combined with their symbolic debugger (C1 Monitor) it was an eye-opener, and eased my way into the weird and wonderful world of 68k assembler and QDOS. The setup I use today is based on a conglomerate of the best available tools, revolving around Qmake. It is simple and fast, and very capable. However, it requires a relatively high-powered, modern system, with components from many different sources, some free, some bought. A short introduction or appendix on What You Need to Get Started might be useful to lower the threshold. A few possible setups could be described, with pointers to the necessary software. Just a thought. Im not suggesting you do the work, other than, perhaps, packaging it into the neat format of your tutorial. Perhaps people like Jochen, Dilwyn, George,.. could supply details of their setup? (You can have mine, for what its worth.) It may just nudge a few more people across that divide between theory and practice. Per On 20 March 2014 23:23, Martyn Hill martyn.joseph.h...@gmail.com wrote: Dear Norman Being one of the more 'silent' list members, I none the less couldn't let such a brilliant initiative and effort go without providing at least a thank you! Yes, I read your 1st edition cover to cover and enjoyed it very much. The format works for me - I read in PDF. All I'd like to see is it continue! All the best and thanks again! Martyn Hill On 20/03/2014 20:12, Norman Dunbar wrote: Evening all, the latest news from the Assembly language mailing list is: 1. Kindle version now available. Issue 1 of the QL Today Memorial Assembly Language Mailing List irregular eMagazine is now available in a fourth flavour, added just today we now have: MOBI (aka Kindle) - qdosmsq.dunbar-it.co.uk/downloads/AssemblyLanguage/ Issue_001/Assembly_Language_001.mobi * You can download the Mobi version and then transfer it to your Kindle via the USB, or; * You can send the file directly to your Kindle using your Kindle's email address (You can find this under settings on your device) - however, make sure you are on WiFi otherwise Amazon will charge you for this service if you have or use 3G to download the file. 2. The amount of feedback I have had on Issue 1 so far has been a resoundingly huge amount of nothing! :-( Has anyone read it? Do you like it? What don't you like? Is the format reasonable? What would you like to see changed? Does it look ok on your eReader, if you use one? Do you prefer HTML, PDF, ePub or Mobi? Do you have any questions? Will George find something wrong? ;-) (I hope so!) Etc? Anyway, enjoy the added flavour! Cheers, Norm. -- There are 10 types of people in this world. Those who understand binary and those who don't. ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] New QL
Hi again, sorry I replied to this post privately by mistake. I debugged that 68K core myself. If it worked well enough for QL assembly code, the Q68 would have been ready for ages. Peter Hi, Just spotted this for $65. It's able to run a 68K core with 32MB RAM, 4096 VGA, and USB and SD/MMC slot. Source for the 68K is available for download. http://www.fleasystems.com/fleaFPGA.html Malcolm ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] New QL
This is certainly a good way to go but I was wondering if development would go to a QL video layout as well as peripherals or go for something all new(ish) 68Kish +QDOS(ish) + Modern(ish) peripherals Also there is so many FPGA boards about I would suggest ones which are very widely available or follow ones that are e.g. http://papilio.cc/ Or the Pipistrello which I also have which has a much faster FPGA(bigger better faster is good honest ;) ) http://pipistrello.saanlima.com/index.php?title=Welcome_to_Pipistrello John Alexander On 21/03/14 11:15, Peter wrote: Hi again, sorry I replied to this post privately by mistake. I debugged that 68K core myself. If it worked well enough for QL assembly code, the Q68 would have been ready for ages. Peter Hi, Just spotted this for $65. It's able to run a 68K core with 32MB RAM, 4096 VGA, and USB and SD/MMC slot. Source for the 68K is available for download. http://www.fleasystems.com/fleaFPGA.html Malcolm ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] New QL
On 21 Mar 2014 at 15:30, John Alexander wrote: This is certainly a good way to go Not so certain. I think I spent 7 years or so debugging 68K cores. I tried pretty much everything which is available on a non-commercial basis. None was correct enough for QL assembler program requirements. If a 68K core can just run Atari/Amiga code, that doesn't mean much. but I was wondering if development would go to a QL video layout as well as peripherals or go for something all new(ish) 68Kish +QDOS(ish) + Modern(ish) peripherals The Q68 has all the vital stuff for years, good enough to run QDOS Classic and Minerva. The main issue is the CPU core, still not executing all instructions correct enough for vital QL software. Also there is so many FPGA boards about I would suggest ones which are very widely available [Snip] There are several boards, which would be more or less suitable. All useless without a sufficiently correct CPU core. Including the Q68, which is long finished hardware-wise and has some advantages over the boards you mentioned. Peter ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] New QL
So we should start a Crowdfunding so someone (TT or MK) can write the suitable things...? Cheers...Ralf - Original Message - From: Peter Graf On 21 Mar 2014 at 15:30, John Alexander wrote: This is certainly a good way to go Not so certain. I think I spent 7 years or so debugging 68K cores. I tried pretty much everything which is available on a non-commercial basis. None was correct enough for QL assembler program requirements. If a 68K core can just run Atari/Amiga code, that doesn't mean much. but I was wondering if development would go to a QL video layout as well as peripherals or go for something all new(ish) 68Kish +QDOS(ish) + Modern(ish) peripherals The Q68 has all the vital stuff for years, good enough to run QDOS Classic and Minerva. The main issue is the CPU core, still not executing all instructions correct enough for vital QL software. Also there is so many FPGA boards about I would suggest ones which are very widely available [Snip] There are several boards, which would be more or less suitable. All useless without a sufficiently correct CPU core. Including the Q68, which is long finished hardware-wise and has some advantages over the boards you mentioned. Peter ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] New QL
On 21 Mar 2014 at 18:35, Ralf Reköndt wrote: So we should start a Crowdfunding so someone (TT or MK) can write the suitable things...? Not sure what you mean. In case you are thinking about rewriting QL software so it avoids misimplemented CPU instructions, that would require knowing all CPU instructions which are still affected. I can't tell yet, otherwise I would probably have fixed them. In case you are thinking about hiring someone to design a better CPU, I'm not sure if software developers are the ones to ask. This is not software, it's hardware design. I'm sure folks like Daniele, Richard and Marcel know a lot about 68K instructions, but it seems unlikely one of them would also like to learn chip design. Many people misinterpret the fact that the logic cells and connections within an FPGA can be reprogrammed. They think some emulation would take place. But there are real logic cells and real wires just like in a fixed 68K IC. The integrated circuit design process has very little in common with writing software. Peter ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] Assembly Language Mailing List News
I have had a quick glance, but struggling to find the time to read it at the moment - there is just SO much material to consider :) Rich On March 21, 2014 at 7:24 PM Ian Burkinshaw ian.burkins...@btopenworld.com wrote: Hi Norman Yes, I have read it. Yes, I like it, more please. Yes, the PDF version looks great, to me. Nothing, to be changed as far as I am concerned. I prefer PDF. I am sure I will have questions, when I try to make it all work. But working on another QL project which is exciting, hopefully more news soon. Keep going George, keep Norman on his toes. Ian Burkinshaw - Original Message - From: Norman Dunbar nor...@dunbar-it.co.uk To: ql-us...@q-v-d.com Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2014 8:12 PM Subject: [Ql-Users] Assembly Language Mailing List News Evening all, the latest news from the Assembly language mailing list is: 1. Kindle version now available. Issue 1 of the QL Today Memorial Assembly Language Mailing List irregular eMagazine is now available in a fourth flavour, added just today we now have: MOBI (aka Kindle) - qdosmsq.dunbar-it.co.uk/downloads/AssemblyLanguage/Issue_001/Assembly_Language_001.mobi * You can download the Mobi version and then transfer it to your Kindle via the USB, or; * You can send the file directly to your Kindle using your Kindle's email address (You can find this under settings on your device) - however, make sure you are on WiFi otherwise Amazon will charge you for this service if you have or use 3G to download the file. 2. The amount of feedback I have had on Issue 1 so far has been a resoundingly huge amount of nothing! :-( Has anyone read it? Do you like it? What don't you like? Is the format reasonable? What would you like to see changed? Does it look ok on your eReader, if you use one? Do you prefer HTML, PDF, ePub or Mobi? Do you have any questions? Will George find something wrong? ;-) (I hope so!) Etc? Anyway, enjoy the added flavour! Cheers, Norm. -- Norman Dunbar Dunbar IT Consultants Ltd Registered address: 27a Lidget Hill Pudsey West Yorkshire United Kingdom LS28 7LG Company Number: 05132767 ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm Rich Mellor RWAP Software www.rwapsoftware.co.uk www.sellmyretro.com ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] New QL
Question here is what instructions are missing I don't think that the Amiga ran an entirely different 68K instruction set. Yes may be the instruction coverage may be different but in practice most sequences are going to be covered. Also there are several 68K cores so the question is also which one. Yep I know the other question is who fixes it all ??? By the sounds of things some one feels volunteered ? Either way who knows what needs to be fixed ?! Also Pete is right software and FPGA programming is different we appreciate that ! On Friday, 21 March 2014, 18:13, pg...@q40.de pg...@q40.de wrote: On 21 Mar 2014 at 18:35, Ralf Reköndt wrote: So we should start a Crowdfunding so someone (TT or MK) can write the suitable things...? Not sure what you mean. In case you are thinking about rewriting QL software so it avoids misimplemented CPU instructions, that would require knowing all CPU instructions which are still affected. I can't tell yet, otherwise I would probably have fixed them. In case you are thinking about hiring someone to design a better CPU, I'm not sure if software developers are the ones to ask. This is not software, it's hardware design. I'm sure folks like Daniele, Richard and Marcel know a lot about 68K instructions, but it seems unlikely one of them would also like to learn chip design. Many people misinterpret the fact that the logic cells and connections within an FPGA can be reprogrammed. They think some emulation would take place. But there are real logic cells and real wires just like in a fixed 68K IC. The integrated circuit design process has very little in common with writing software. Peter ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
[Ql-Users] new QL-SD page
Now that QL-SD is available, albeit in small numbers so far, I've set up a page where you can download the manual, software starter pack and the BDI (Block Device Image) specification for emulators, thanks to Peter Graf for supplying the software and documents. The page is at http://www.dilwyn.me.uk/qlsd/index.html Also, thanks to Graeme Gregory, a version of qltools has been developed specifically for use with the HxC floppy disk emulator. This is available from http://www.dilwyn.me.uk/files/index.html ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] New QL
John Alexander wrote: Question here is what instructions are missing I don't think that the Amiga ran an entirely different Not missing but incorrectly implemented, which is far worse. The bugs I'm talking about only occur under rare circumstances. By now, the Q68 is already debugged well enough to run the QDOS Classic and Minerva operating systems correctly, but not all QL driver and application software. For example TK2 and the pointer environment are not in harmony although they work separately. 68K instruction set. Yes may be the instruction coverage may be different but in practice most sequences are going to be covered. Also there are several 68K cores so the question is also which one. I tested all non-commercial 68K cores and found bugs in all of them. TG68 and successors seem better than the rest, but I still haven't found all of it's bugs. Yep I know the other question is who fixes it all ??? Fixing is relatively easy, the much harder part is to find which instruction had caused a crash or wrong behaviour. By the sounds of things some one feels volunteered ? Either way who knows what needs to be fixed ?! Nobody yet. Finding out what else needs to be fixed is the main challenge. Could be only one more instruction. If I had not spent a terrible amount of time for QL-SD I might have found it already. Peter ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] new QL-SD page
Am 22.03.2014 00:57, schrieb Dilwyn Jones: Now that QL-SD is available, albeit in small numbers so far, I've set up a page where you can download the manual, software starter pack and the BDI (Block Device Image) specification for emulators, thanks to Peter Graf for supplying the software and documents. The page is at http://www.dilwyn.me.uk/qlsd/index.html Many thanks, and you can remove the as I understand it. It is fact that only SDHC is allowed :) ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] New QL
pg...@q40.de wrote: In case you are thinking about hiring someone to design a better CPU, I'm not sure if software developers are the ones to ask. This is not software, it's hardware design. I'm sure folks like Daniele, Richard and Marcel know a lot about 68K instructions, but it seems unlikely one of them would also like to learn chip design. Actually I have dabbled with VHDL in University and would love to do more with FPGAs, but no, I have enough pet projects going as it is. Perhaps in another life ;-) Without even having seen the code I guess the remaining bugs are in the processor flag handling. If you don't get them exactly right everything kind of works, but then after a few million flawless instructions some tiny thing breaks and things go down from there. I remember tracing thousands of lines side by side with a real QL to catch the remaining differences. But it did pay off, in the 18 years since the first release only a handful bugs have been found in the emulation core, most by George Gwilt. You should send him a board ;-) Cheers, Marcel ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] Assembly Language Mailing List News
On 21 March 2014 11:52, Per Witte pjwi...@online.no wrote: Yo! Norman, I started with the Metacomco Assembler package. It was the best, most professional solution at the time, but far too technical for a punter, not in a technical or academic environment, trying to figure out things on his ownsome. Correction: I meant GST Macro Assemble (now Qmac, courtesy of QUANTA), not Metacomco. It was a loong time ago.. Per ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
