Re: [Ql-Users] USBWiz Driver Update
On 2/1/2011 8:13 PM, Adrian Ives wrote: So, my question is this: Is anyone actually interested in me devoting more time to finish this project? If (and it is still an if) the driver can be brought to a release-stable state, is there interest in a commercial product based around this? Absolutely I'd pay for that :-) Yes, VERY interested esp. if it works with the Q40 :-) ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USBWiz Driver Update
-- Yes indeed you are - it looks good. -- -- I have two USBWIZ modules and I saw another two at the Vienna QL show. -- -- so there is probably a market for firmware/drivers only. -- -- Tony Tony, same with me - got a USBWiz somewhere in a drawer, but never found the time to do something with it. This leads me to another (related) question: How is the current (Super) Hermes availability? Do you still produce it? With the USBWiz being serial, this really calls for a high-speed interface. Cheers Tobias ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USBWiz Driver Update
tobias.froesc...@t-online.de wrote, on 8/Feb/11 09:49 | Feb8: -- Yes indeed you are - it looks good. -- -- I have two USBWIZ modules and I saw another two at the Vienna QL show. -- -- so there is probably a market for firmware/drivers only. -- -- Tony Tony, same with me - got a USBWiz somewhere in a drawer, but never found the time to do something with it. This leads me to another (related) question: How is the current (Super) Hermes availability? Do you still produce it? With the USBWiz being serial, this really calls for a high-speed interface. Rich Mellor has secondhand ones. I have given up QL work but . . I am building some for Rich. One of the reasons I stopped is I am too busy, so I am not sure when these can be made. Adrian is finding, like Laurence and I did, that the fastest speed attainable is somewhere between 56k and 115200. The limiting factor is QL speed, so SGC is needed. This is a real pity as the hardware can go as fast as sH theoretical limit (460800 I think). Its max is 1.5mbps or so. However the limits for the RS232 chips in sH are probably lower than 230400. The high serial speed is for TTL links - ie direct serial links. In fact the RS232 hardware is not on USBWIZ, so a MAX or similar chip needs adding. Tony -- QBBS (QL fido BBS 2:257/67) +44(0)1442-828255 t...@firshman.co.uk http://firshman.co.uk Voice: +44(0)1442-828254 Fax: +44(0)1442-828255 Skype: tonyfirshman TF Services, 29 Longfield Road, TRING, Herts, HP23 4DG ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USBWiz Driver Update
I seem to recall having a roll of MAX232s around here somewhere. I also recall having 25 or so of the hard-to-find Altera CPLDs in a tray, a box of the QL connectors (I don't remember M or F) and assortments of other SMD components and etc. These were bought for Nasta's aborted Goldfire project. If any of this stuff is any use to anyone, let me know and I'll dig it out. Dave On Tue, Feb 8, 2011 at 4:54 AM, Tony Firshman t...@firshman.co.uk wrote: tobias.froesc...@t-online.de wrote, on 8/Feb/11 09:49 | Feb8: -- Yes indeed you are - it looks good. -- -- I have two USBWIZ modules and I saw another two at the Vienna QL show. -- -- so there is probably a market for firmware/drivers only. -- -- Tony Tony, same with me - got a USBWiz somewhere in a drawer, but never found the time to do something with it. This leads me to another (related) question: How is the current (Super) Hermes availability? Do you still produce it? With the USBWiz being serial, this really calls for a high-speed interface. Rich Mellor has secondhand ones. I have given up QL work but . . I am building some for Rich. One of the reasons I stopped is I am too busy, so I am not sure when these can be made. Adrian is finding, like Laurence and I did, that the fastest speed attainable is somewhere between 56k and 115200. The limiting factor is QL speed, so SGC is needed. This is a real pity as the hardware can go as fast as sH theoretical limit (460800 I think). Its max is 1.5mbps or so. However the limits for the RS232 chips in sH are probably lower than 230400. The high serial speed is for TTL links - ie direct serial links. In fact the RS232 hardware is not on USBWIZ, so a MAX or similar chip needs adding. Tony -- QBBS (QL fido BBS 2:257/67) +441442828255+44(0)1442-828255+441442828255 t...@firshman.co.uk http://firshman.co.uk Voice: +441442828254+44(0)1442-828254 +441442828254 Fax: +441442828255+44(0)1442-828255 +441442828255 Skype: tonyfirshman TF Services, 29 Longfield Road, TRING, Herts, HP23 4DG ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USBWiz Driver Update
In message 000601cbc6bf$42462ea0$c6d28be0$@acanthis.co.uk, Adrian Ives adr...@acanthis.co.uk writes Hi Adrian, I have been refreshing my memory, with a look through the USBwiz Manual as a PDF. It is based on an ARM chip. If anyone is interested, just do an online search on USBwiz. Good luck with the driver software. It must be fun, just finding out what it can do. I made a Velleman kit for a PIC Programmer and Experimental Board, sold through Maplins, some time ago; which uses the Serial Port. I could definitely make up/solder up from supplied parts, and am sure many other QL users will have hardware skills. So, maybe you could also consider a Kit Version. Dave, Bill of Materials: Yes Schematics: Yes Plan: This will depend upon the likely demand. My initial question was intended to gauge this ... because, honestly, I don't know how many QLs remain in circulation and, of them, how many owners would consider buying this kind of hardware. Maybe they would like to wait and see if a microdrive-emulating SD card slot comes along ... I know I would buy one of _them_ if they were available today! Anyway, if the demand is only there for a handful of units, I will likely build them myself on an as-needed basis and then, obviously, it won't be possible to pass on the advantage of bulk pricing for the components - the most expensive of which is the USBWiz module. It's worth remembering that the single most important component of this project is the driver. Until that is completed there is really nothing viable to market. Regarding the driver, several I/O traps are still not fully implemented and proper performance and resilience testing cannot begin until that is done, but I'm making good progress. Adrian -Original Message- From: ql-users-boun...@lists.q-v-d.com [mailto:ql-users-boun...@lists.q-v-d.com] On Behalf Of Plastic Sent: 07 February 2011 10:15 To: ql-us...@q-v-d.com Subject: Re: [Ql-Users] USBWiz Driver Update Do you have a BOM for the hardware? A schematic? Or is it only ready-made boards, and if so, what is the bulk cost? How do you plan to make this into a product? Is that your plan? Dave On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 2:33 AM, Lee Privett lee.priv...@gmail.com wrote: Well I am definately interested in purchasing such a device, have you considered putting this forward to the Quanta Commitee to get it off the ground commercially? Lee Privett - Sent from my Laptop running XP but emulating the QL using QPC2 - Original Message - From: Malcolm Cadman q...@mcad.demon.co.uk To: ql-us...@q-v-d.com Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2011 8:36 PM Subject: Re: [Ql-Users] USBWiz Driver Update In message 001c01cbc23b$b4caf510$1e60df30$@acanthis.co.uk, Adrian Ives adr...@acanthis.co.uk writes Hi Adrian, Yes, using the USBWiz is a good idea. A new hardware project always creates interest. PS - This list is getting very busy, too. Just catching up on over 100 emails ... :-) I have no idea if anyone is remotely interested in this project to attach USB devices to a QL using a small card called a USBWiz. This device presents a serial interface and accepts AT style commands to communicate with many classes of USB device. I started working on this last year, but was delayed by some family problems and a move to another part of the country. My prototype hardware is a little black block that connects via a serial lead to a QL or Hermes serial port. The box has an SD card slot and two USB ports. In the past two weeks I have turned my original prototype driver inside out (not a trivial task, no wonder I missed an errant me equ 0 statement). The first version suffered from problems encountered when trying to do serial I/O while in supervisor mode (in effect, a driver on top of a driver). Today I successfully completed a test which involved writing a text file to a native QDOS format SD card, then reading it back again. The new driver switches to user mode to do asynchronous I/O over the standard serial port driver through an I/O queue which is managed by a Queue Manager job. In this it is very different from other device drivers and so will need a lot more testing. Not the least of which under QDOS as the driver has been developed under SMSQ. The framework is also in place to support real time communication with the driver core through a pipe mechanism. This is intended to allow queries to be sent to the driver, as opposed to its devices; a variation on a paper that I read about the possibility of implementing meta devices on the QL. Some time in the future I envisage a USB thing to act as the interface to this feature. Anyway, that's where I am. The new device driver has the name USB; USB1 is the SD card slot, USB2 and USB3 are the ports which can mount standard external hard drives or memory sticks. It reads and writes, but the format routine still needs completing (formatting is currently done
Re: [Ql-Users] USBWiz Driver Update
Well I am definately interested in purchasing such a device, have you considered putting this forward to the Quanta Commitee to get it off the ground commercially? Lee Privett - Sent from my Laptop running XP but emulating the QL using QPC2 - Original Message - From: Malcolm Cadman q...@mcad.demon.co.uk To: ql-us...@q-v-d.com Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2011 8:36 PM Subject: Re: [Ql-Users] USBWiz Driver Update In message 001c01cbc23b$b4caf510$1e60df30$@acanthis.co.uk, Adrian Ives adr...@acanthis.co.uk writes Hi Adrian, Yes, using the USBWiz is a good idea. A new hardware project always creates interest. PS - This list is getting very busy, too. Just catching up on over 100 emails ... :-) I have no idea if anyone is remotely interested in this project to attach USB devices to a QL using a small card called a USBWiz. This device presents a serial interface and accepts AT style commands to communicate with many classes of USB device. I started working on this last year, but was delayed by some family problems and a move to another part of the country. My prototype hardware is a little black block that connects via a serial lead to a QL or Hermes serial port. The box has an SD card slot and two USB ports. In the past two weeks I have turned my original prototype driver inside out (not a trivial task, no wonder I missed an errant me equ 0 statement). The first version suffered from problems encountered when trying to do serial I/O while in supervisor mode (in effect, a driver on top of a driver). Today I successfully completed a test which involved writing a text file to a native QDOS format SD card, then reading it back again. The new driver switches to user mode to do asynchronous I/O over the standard serial port driver through an I/O queue which is managed by a Queue Manager job. In this it is very different from other device drivers and so will need a lot more testing. Not the least of which under QDOS as the driver has been developed under SMSQ. The framework is also in place to support real time communication with the driver core through a pipe mechanism. This is intended to allow queries to be sent to the driver, as opposed to its devices; a variation on a paper that I read about the possibility of implementing meta devices on the QL. Some time in the future I envisage a USB thing to act as the interface to this feature. Anyway, that's where I am. The new device driver has the name USB; USB1 is the SD card slot, USB2 and USB3 are the ports which can mount standard external hard drives or memory sticks. It reads and writes, but the format routine still needs completing (formatting is currently done with a S*BASIC utility) As well as the native QL driver I also have a File Manager which needs no driver (only a free serial port) and can read and write FAT format SD cards and USB hard drives. This software also supports the automatic saving and retrieving of the QDOS 64 byte header. This program currently runs in menu-driven character mode, but it is my intention to migrate it to a GD2 compliant pointer app in the very near future. So, my question is this: Is anyone actually interested in me devoting more time to finish this project? If (and it is still an if) the driver can be brought to a release-stable state, is there interest in a commercial product based around this? -- Malcolm Cadman ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USBWiz Driver Update
Do you have a BOM for the hardware? A schematic? Or is it only ready-made boards, and if so, what is the bulk cost? How do you plan to make this into a product? Is that your plan? Dave On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 2:33 AM, Lee Privett lee.priv...@gmail.com wrote: Well I am definately interested in purchasing such a device, have you considered putting this forward to the Quanta Commitee to get it off the ground commercially? Lee Privett - Sent from my Laptop running XP but emulating the QL using QPC2 - Original Message - From: Malcolm Cadman q...@mcad.demon.co.uk To: ql-us...@q-v-d.com Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2011 8:36 PM Subject: Re: [Ql-Users] USBWiz Driver Update In message 001c01cbc23b$b4caf510$1e60df30$@acanthis.co.uk, Adrian Ives adr...@acanthis.co.uk writes Hi Adrian, Yes, using the USBWiz is a good idea. A new hardware project always creates interest. PS - This list is getting very busy, too. Just catching up on over 100 emails ... :-) I have no idea if anyone is remotely interested in this project to attach USB devices to a QL using a small card called a USBWiz. This device presents a serial interface and accepts AT style commands to communicate with many classes of USB device. I started working on this last year, but was delayed by some family problems and a move to another part of the country. My prototype hardware is a little black block that connects via a serial lead to a QL or Hermes serial port. The box has an SD card slot and two USB ports. In the past two weeks I have turned my original prototype driver inside out (not a trivial task, no wonder I missed an errant me equ 0 statement). The first version suffered from problems encountered when trying to do serial I/O while in supervisor mode (in effect, a driver on top of a driver). Today I successfully completed a test which involved writing a text file to a native QDOS format SD card, then reading it back again. The new driver switches to user mode to do asynchronous I/O over the standard serial port driver through an I/O queue which is managed by a Queue Manager job. In this it is very different from other device drivers and so will need a lot more testing. Not the least of which under QDOS as the driver has been developed under SMSQ. The framework is also in place to support real time communication with the driver core through a pipe mechanism. This is intended to allow queries to be sent to the driver, as opposed to its devices; a variation on a paper that I read about the possibility of implementing meta devices on the QL. Some time in the future I envisage a USB thing to act as the interface to this feature. Anyway, that's where I am. The new device driver has the name USB; USB1 is the SD card slot, USB2 and USB3 are the ports which can mount standard external hard drives or memory sticks. It reads and writes, but the format routine still needs completing (formatting is currently done with a S*BASIC utility) As well as the native QL driver I also have a File Manager which needs no driver (only a free serial port) and can read and write FAT format SD cards and USB hard drives. This software also supports the automatic saving and retrieving of the QDOS 64 byte header. This program currently runs in menu-driven character mode, but it is my intention to migrate it to a GD2 compliant pointer app in the very near future. So, my question is this: Is anyone actually interested in me devoting more time to finish this project? If (and it is still an if) the driver can be brought to a release-stable state, is there interest in a commercial product based around this? -- Malcolm Cadman ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USBWiz Driver Update
Dave, Bill of Materials: Yes Schematics: Yes Plan: This will depend upon the likely demand. My initial question was intended to gauge this ... because, honestly, I don't know how many QLs remain in circulation and, of them, how many owners would consider buying this kind of hardware. Maybe they would like to wait and see if a microdrive-emulating SD card slot comes along ... I know I would buy one of _them_ if they were available today! Anyway, if the demand is only there for a handful of units, I will likely build them myself on an as-needed basis and then, obviously, it won't be possible to pass on the advantage of bulk pricing for the components - the most expensive of which is the USBWiz module. It's worth remembering that the single most important component of this project is the driver. Until that is completed there is really nothing viable to market. Regarding the driver, several I/O traps are still not fully implemented and proper performance and resilience testing cannot begin until that is done, but I'm making good progress. Adrian -Original Message- From: ql-users-boun...@lists.q-v-d.com [mailto:ql-users-boun...@lists.q-v-d.com] On Behalf Of Plastic Sent: 07 February 2011 10:15 To: ql-us...@q-v-d.com Subject: Re: [Ql-Users] USBWiz Driver Update Do you have a BOM for the hardware? A schematic? Or is it only ready-made boards, and if so, what is the bulk cost? How do you plan to make this into a product? Is that your plan? Dave On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 2:33 AM, Lee Privett lee.priv...@gmail.com wrote: Well I am definately interested in purchasing such a device, have you considered putting this forward to the Quanta Commitee to get it off the ground commercially? Lee Privett - Sent from my Laptop running XP but emulating the QL using QPC2 - Original Message - From: Malcolm Cadman q...@mcad.demon.co.uk To: ql-us...@q-v-d.com Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2011 8:36 PM Subject: Re: [Ql-Users] USBWiz Driver Update In message 001c01cbc23b$b4caf510$1e60df30$@acanthis.co.uk, Adrian Ives adr...@acanthis.co.uk writes Hi Adrian, Yes, using the USBWiz is a good idea. A new hardware project always creates interest. PS - This list is getting very busy, too. Just catching up on over 100 emails ... :-) I have no idea if anyone is remotely interested in this project to attach USB devices to a QL using a small card called a USBWiz. This device presents a serial interface and accepts AT style commands to communicate with many classes of USB device. I started working on this last year, but was delayed by some family problems and a move to another part of the country. My prototype hardware is a little black block that connects via a serial lead to a QL or Hermes serial port. The box has an SD card slot and two USB ports. In the past two weeks I have turned my original prototype driver inside out (not a trivial task, no wonder I missed an errant me equ 0 statement). The first version suffered from problems encountered when trying to do serial I/O while in supervisor mode (in effect, a driver on top of a driver). Today I successfully completed a test which involved writing a text file to a native QDOS format SD card, then reading it back again. The new driver switches to user mode to do asynchronous I/O over the standard serial port driver through an I/O queue which is managed by a Queue Manager job. In this it is very different from other device drivers and so will need a lot more testing. Not the least of which under QDOS as the driver has been developed under SMSQ. The framework is also in place to support real time communication with the driver core through a pipe mechanism. This is intended to allow queries to be sent to the driver, as opposed to its devices; a variation on a paper that I read about the possibility of implementing meta devices on the QL. Some time in the future I envisage a USB thing to act as the interface to this feature. Anyway, that's where I am. The new device driver has the name USB; USB1 is the SD card slot, USB2 and USB3 are the ports which can mount standard external hard drives or memory sticks. It reads and writes, but the format routine still needs completing (formatting is currently done with a S*BASIC utility) As well as the native QL driver I also have a File Manager which needs no driver (only a free serial port) and can read and write FAT format SD cards and USB hard drives. This software also supports the automatic saving and retrieving of the QDOS 64 byte header. This program currently runs in menu-driven character mode, but it is my intention to migrate it to a GD2 compliant pointer app in the very near future. So, my question is this: Is anyone actually interested in me devoting more time to finish this project? If (and it is still an if) the driver can
Re: [Ql-Users] USBWiz Driver Update
Adrian Ives wrote: Maybe they would like to wait and see if a microdrive-emulating SD card slot comes along ... There will definitely be no microdrive-emulating SD card slot from me. What I had mentioned - as one of several ideas - was making an SD card harddisk which can be mechanically mounted at a microdrive slot. This would be just mechanical, no microdrive signals or drivers involved. All the best Peter ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USBWiz Driver Update
Actually I think that's a shame, Peter. I know there are technical and performance issues with going the MDV emulation route, maybe even insurmountable ones, but it had that kind of Wow Factor about it. I imagined it as the microdrive version of the Hxc Floppy Drive Emulator. But, anyway, if there was already an expansion bus (or ROM port) connected SD card interface then I wouldn't be pursuing the Ser-USB project, which was really the point I was making about product demand. Adrian -Original Message- From: ql-users-boun...@lists.q-v-d.com [mailto:ql-users-boun...@lists.q-v-d.com] On Behalf Of Peter Sent: 07 February 2011 13:39 To: ql-us...@q-v-d.com Subject: Re: [Ql-Users] USBWiz Driver Update Adrian Ives wrote: Maybe they would like to wait and see if a microdrive-emulating SD card slot comes along ... There will definitely be no microdrive-emulating SD card slot from me. What I had mentioned - as one of several ideas - was making an SD card harddisk which can be mechanically mounted at a microdrive slot. This would be just mechanical, no microdrive signals or drivers involved. All the best Peter ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USBWiz Driver Update
On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 8:24 AM, Adrian Ives adr...@acanthis.co.uk wrote: Actually I think that's a shame, Peter. I know there are technical and performance issues with going the MDV emulation route, maybe even insurmountable ones, but it had that kind of Wow Factor about it. I imagined it as the microdrive version of the Hxc Floppy Drive Emulator. But, anyway, if there was already an expansion bus (or ROM port) connected SD card interface then I wouldn't be pursuing the Ser-USB project, which was really the point I was making about product demand. It is trivial to design a SD card carrier that fits in the microdrive slots. The harder part is designing the interface, which is what I believe Peter has done. Peter has taken the capacity of SDHC cards and decided that them acting like HDs is better than them acting like microdrives, but this is separate from physically placing them in the microdrive slots - which is quite feasible as a simple adaption of what he has done. Peter, would you be interested in letting your interface use a SDHC carrier that fits in the MDV slot, if someone else designs/builds it? Dave ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USBWiz Driver Update
Yes, and I'm not arguing with his eminently sensible decision; simply voicing a whim and an opinion. It's self evident that an SD card interface plugged into the expansion slot or even the ROM port would be a faster and more flexible solution than attempting to emulate a microdrive, and several orders of magnitude faster than a serial USB interface! Thanks for reminding me that it's not just a matter of fitting the SD card carrier into the hole vacated by the microdrive. ;) Adrian -Original Message- From: ql-users-boun...@lists.q-v-d.com [mailto:ql-users-boun...@lists.q-v-d.com] On Behalf Of Plastic Sent: 07 February 2011 14:30 To: ql-us...@q-v-d.com Subject: Re: [Ql-Users] USBWiz Driver Update On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 8:24 AM, Adrian Ives adr...@acanthis.co.uk wrote: Actually I think that's a shame, Peter. I know there are technical and performance issues with going the MDV emulation route, maybe even insurmountable ones, but it had that kind of Wow Factor about it. I imagined it as the microdrive version of the Hxc Floppy Drive Emulator. But, anyway, if there was already an expansion bus (or ROM port) connected SD card interface then I wouldn't be pursuing the Ser-USB project, which was really the point I was making about product demand. It is trivial to design a SD card carrier that fits in the microdrive slots. The harder part is designing the interface, which is what I believe Peter has done. Peter has taken the capacity of SDHC cards and decided that them acting like HDs is better than them acting like microdrives, but this is separate from physically placing them in the microdrive slots - which is quite feasible as a simple adaption of what he has done. Peter, would you be interested in letting your interface use a SDHC carrier that fits in the MDV slot, if someone else designs/builds it? Dave ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USBWiz Driver Update
Hehe. Sorry if it came across as pedantic. I just read the thread and saw that some people were seeing a conversation about formatting, and others were seeing a discussion about the esthetics of using the microdrive bays in the way they were intended. ;) Dave On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 9:42 AM, Adrian Ives adr...@acanthis.co.uk wrote: Yes, and I'm not arguing with his eminently sensible decision; simply voicing a whim and an opinion. It's self evident that an SD card interface plugged into the expansion slot or even the ROM port would be a faster and more flexible solution than attempting to emulate a microdrive, and several orders of magnitude faster than a serial USB interface! Thanks for reminding me that it's not just a matter of fitting the SD card carrier into the hole vacated by the microdrive. ;) Adrian -Original Message- From: ql-users-boun...@lists.q-v-d.com [mailto:ql-users-boun...@lists.q-v-d.com] On Behalf Of Plastic Sent: 07 February 2011 14:30 To: ql-us...@q-v-d.com Subject: Re: [Ql-Users] USBWiz Driver Update On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 8:24 AM, Adrian Ives adr...@acanthis.co.uk wrote: Actually I think that's a shame, Peter. I know there are technical and performance issues with going the MDV emulation route, maybe even insurmountable ones, but it had that kind of Wow Factor about it. I imagined it as the microdrive version of the Hxc Floppy Drive Emulator. But, anyway, if there was already an expansion bus (or ROM port) connected SD card interface then I wouldn't be pursuing the Ser-USB project, which was really the point I was making about product demand. It is trivial to design a SD card carrier that fits in the microdrive slots. The harder part is designing the interface, which is what I believe Peter has done. Peter has taken the capacity of SDHC cards and decided that them acting like HDs is better than them acting like microdrives, but this is separate from physically placing them in the microdrive slots - which is quite feasible as a simple adaption of what he has done. Peter, would you be interested in letting your interface use a SDHC carrier that fits in the MDV slot, if someone else designs/builds it? Dave ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USBWiz Driver Update
Adrian Ives wrote: Actually I think that's a shame, Peter. I know there are technical and performance issues with going the MDV emulation route, maybe even insurmountable ones, but it had that kind of Wow Factor about it. Most won't care whether the data runs through the microdrive cables/driver or not. In addition to the speed issue, internal microdrive cables are hard to plug in. From outside the case, the wow factor is the same ;-) But, anyway, if there was already an expansion bus (or ROM port) connected SD card interface then I wouldn't be pursuing the Ser-USB project, which was really the point I was making about product demand. Not sure mass storage has to be the primary focus for Ser-USB. There is also demand for HID and printer connectivity. Slow speed would be less of a problem there. Peter ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USBWiz Driver Update
On 07/02/2011 14:24, Adrian Ives wrote: Actually I think that's a shame, Peter. I know there are technical and performance issues with going the MDV emulation route, maybe even insurmountable ones, but it had that kind of Wow Factor about it. I imagined it as the microdrive version of the Hxc Floppy Drive Emulator. But, anyway, if there was already an expansion bus (or ROM port) connected SD card interface then I wouldn't be pursuing the Ser-USB project, which was really the point I was making about product demand. I have two card readers ( compact Flash IIRC ) that fit into a PC floppy drive bay and connect to a PC via a Floppy drive cable, I cannot remember any software being involved although it is a long time since I used them. They seemed to just read a C/F card as they would a 3.5 disc. Unfortunately my QL hardware is stored over three sheds and an attic so trying them out on a QL floppy drive is not possible without a well planned expedition to all corners of my domain. C/flash seems to be going out of fashion anyway I suppose although I prefer it for tactile reasons - and it can't be that easy can it All the best - Bill ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USBWiz Driver Update
Adrian Ives wrote, on 7/Feb/11 12:05 | Feb7: Dave, Bill of Materials: Yes Schematics: Yes Plan: This will depend upon the likely demand. My initial question was intended to gauge this ... because, honestly, I don't know how many QLs remain in circulation and, of them, how many owners would consider buying this kind of hardware. Maybe they would like to wait and see if a microdrive-emulating SD card slot comes along ... I know I would buy one of _them_ if they were available today! Anyway, if the demand is only there for a handful of units, I will likely build them myself on an as-needed basis and then, obviously, it won't be possible to pass on the advantage of bulk pricing for the components - the most expensive of which is the USBWiz module. It's worth remembering that the single most important component of this project is the driver. Until that is completed there is really nothing viable to market. Regarding the driver, several I/O traps are still not fully implemented and proper performance and resilience testing cannot begin until that is done, but I'm making good progress. Yes indeed you are - it looks good. I have two USBWIZ modules and I saw another two at the Vienna QL show. so there is probably a market for firmware/drivers only. Tony -- QBBS (QL fido BBS 2:257/67) +44(0)1442-828255 t...@firshman.co.uk http://firshman.co.uk Voice: +44(0)1442-828254 Fax: +44(0)1442-828255 Skype: tonyfirshman TF Services, 29 Longfield Road, TRING, Herts, HP23 4DG ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USBWiz Driver Update
Peter wrote, on 7/Feb/11 16:13 | Feb7: Adrian Ives wrote: Actually I think that's a shame, Peter. I know there are technical and performance issues with going the MDV emulation route, maybe even insurmountable ones, but it had that kind of Wow Factor about it. Most won't care whether the data runs through the microdrive cables/driver or not. In addition to the speed issue, internal microdrive cables are hard to plug in. ... not if you solder a SIL turned pin strip (cut from a DIL socket) into the mdv tails. That was a trick I used from my early QL repairs in the 80s. I really don't know why Thorn-EMI did not do that. Tony -- QBBS (QL fido BBS 2:257/67) +44(0)1442-828255 t...@firshman.co.uk http://firshman.co.uk Voice: +44(0)1442-828254 Fax: +44(0)1442-828255 Skype: tonyfirshman TF Services, 29 Longfield Road, TRING, Herts, HP23 4DG ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USBWiz Driver Update
In message 001c01cbc23b$b4caf510$1e60df30$@acanthis.co.uk, Adrian Ives adr...@acanthis.co.uk writes Hi Adrian, Yes, using the USBWiz is a good idea. A new hardware project always creates interest. PS - This list is getting very busy, too. Just catching up on over 100 emails ... :-) I have no idea if anyone is remotely interested in this project to attach USB devices to a QL using a small card called a USBWiz. This device presents a serial interface and accepts AT style commands to communicate with many classes of USB device. I started working on this last year, but was delayed by some family problems and a move to another part of the country. My prototype hardware is a little black block that connects via a serial lead to a QL or Hermes serial port. The box has an SD card slot and two USB ports. In the past two weeks I have turned my original prototype driver inside out (not a trivial task, no wonder I missed an errant me equ 0 statement). The first version suffered from problems encountered when trying to do serial I/O while in supervisor mode (in effect, a driver on top of a driver). Today I successfully completed a test which involved writing a text file to a native QDOS format SD card, then reading it back again. The new driver switches to user mode to do asynchronous I/O over the standard serial port driver through an I/O queue which is managed by a Queue Manager job. In this it is very different from other device drivers and so will need a lot more testing. Not the least of which under QDOS as the driver has been developed under SMSQ. The framework is also in place to support real time communication with the driver core through a pipe mechanism. This is intended to allow queries to be sent to the driver, as opposed to its devices; a variation on a paper that I read about the possibility of implementing meta devices on the QL. Some time in the future I envisage a USB thing to act as the interface to this feature. Anyway, that's where I am. The new device driver has the name USB; USB1 is the SD card slot, USB2 and USB3 are the ports which can mount standard external hard drives or memory sticks. It reads and writes, but the format routine still needs completing (formatting is currently done with a S*BASIC utility) As well as the native QL driver I also have a File Manager which needs no driver (only a free serial port) and can read and write FAT format SD cards and USB hard drives. This software also supports the automatic saving and retrieving of the QDOS 64 byte header. This program currently runs in menu-driven character mode, but it is my intention to migrate it to a GD2 compliant pointer app in the very near future. So, my question is this: Is anyone actually interested in me devoting more time to finish this project? If (and it is still an if) the driver can be brought to a release-stable state, is there interest in a commercial product based around this? -- Malcolm Cadman ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
[Ql-Users] USBWiz Driver Update
I have no idea if anyone is remotely interested in this project to attach USB devices to a QL using a small card called a USBWiz. This device presents a serial interface and accepts AT style commands to communicate with many classes of USB device. I started working on this last year, but was delayed by some family problems and a move to another part of the country. My prototype hardware is a little black block that connects via a serial lead to a QL or Hermes serial port. The box has an SD card slot and two USB ports. In the past two weeks I have turned my original prototype driver inside out (not a trivial task, no wonder I missed an errant me equ 0 statement). The first version suffered from problems encountered when trying to do serial I/O while in supervisor mode (in effect, a driver on top of a driver). Today I successfully completed a test which involved writing a text file to a native QDOS format SD card, then reading it back again. The new driver switches to user mode to do asynchronous I/O over the standard serial port driver through an I/O queue which is managed by a Queue Manager job. In this it is very different from other device drivers and so will need a lot more testing. Not the least of which under QDOS as the driver has been developed under SMSQ. The framework is also in place to support real time communication with the driver core through a pipe mechanism. This is intended to allow queries to be sent to the driver, as opposed to its devices; a variation on a paper that I read about the possibility of implementing meta devices on the QL. Some time in the future I envisage a USB thing to act as the interface to this feature. Anyway, that's where I am. The new device driver has the name USB; USB1 is the SD card slot, USB2 and USB3 are the ports which can mount standard external hard drives or memory sticks. It reads and writes, but the format routine still needs completing (formatting is currently done with a S*BASIC utility) As well as the native QL driver I also have a File Manager which needs no driver (only a free serial port) and can read and write FAT format SD cards and USB hard drives. This software also supports the automatic saving and retrieving of the QDOS 64 byte header. This program currently runs in menu-driven character mode, but it is my intention to migrate it to a GD2 compliant pointer app in the very near future. So, my question is this: Is anyone actually interested in me devoting more time to finish this project? If (and it is still an if) the driver can be brought to a release-stable state, is there interest in a commercial product based around this? Adrian ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USBWiz Driver Update
Hi Adrian, if this would work on a standard QL I would very interested in a commercial product. Best regards, Petri On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 8:13 PM, Adrian Ives adr...@acanthis.co.uk wrote: So, my question is this: Is anyone actually interested in me devoting more time to finish this project? If (and it is still an if) the driver can be brought to a release-stable state, is there interest in a commercial product based around this? ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USBWiz Driver Update
Petri, My aim is to support a standard QL, but I don't want to mislead anybody: there are obviously many limitations of the standard serial ports, not the least of which being the maximum speed! On an Aurora QL with superHermes I was getting reliable working at 56Kbps and intermittent working at 115K - on a standard QL 9.6K is the practical maximum. There will also be limitations caused by the lack of memory on an unexpanded QL, limiting the amount of buffers that the driver can allocate to keep things moving. otoh The standalone File Manager works quite well on a bog standard QL and, with the USBWiz native support of the FAT file system, is ideal for transferring files between machines (QL, PC or Mac). Adrian -Original Message- From: ql-users-boun...@lists.q-v-d.com [mailto:ql-users-boun...@lists.q-v-d.com] On Behalf Of Petri Pellinen Sent: 01 February 2011 18:30 To: ql-us...@q-v-d.com Subject: Re: [Ql-Users] USBWiz Driver Update Hi Adrian, if this would work on a standard QL I would very interested in a commercial product. Best regards, Petri On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 8:13 PM, Adrian Ives adr...@acanthis.co.uk wrote: So, my question is this: Is anyone actually interested in me devoting more time to finish this project? If (and it is still an if) the driver can be brought to a release-stable state, is there interest in a commercial product based around this? ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USBWiz Driver Update
Hi Adrian I also would be very interested in a commercial product of this. Regards Duncan -Original Message- From: Adrian Ives adr...@acanthis.co.uk To: ql-us...@q-v-d.com Sent: Tue, 1 Feb 2011 18:13 Subject: [Ql-Users] USBWiz Driver Update So, my question is this: Is anyone actually interested in me devoting more time to finish this project? If (and it is still an if) the driver can be brought to a release-stable state, is there interest in a commercial product based around this? Adrian ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USBWiz Driver Update
Am 01.02.2011 19:13, schrieb Adrian Ives: I have no idea if anyone is remotely interested in this project to attach USB devices to a QL using a small card called a USBWiz. This device Adrian, 'remotely' would be a blatant understatement. I actually have an USBWiz in a drawer somewhere, but am still looking for the other drawer that holds the spare time. So any progress you make is of high interest to me. Sounds astonishing what you have achieved so far. Cheers, Tobias ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
