Re: [ql-users] QL disk transfer
Note that for Q-emuLator there is also a simpler way: use the emulator to copy the ql unzip program to the Windows file system, then just compress the ql unzip executable with the windows version of Winzip, or don't compress it at all. The executable can then be transferred (via normal Windows file copy/internet download/etc.) to the PC of a user that needs it and still be recognized as a QDOS executable by Q-emuLator. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] d.com] On Behalf Of Timothy Swenson Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 11:58 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ql-users] QL disk transfer Using the idea from Dave Walker I have created a QL boot disk image using the RAWREAD utility. The end QLer will download this disk image file and RAWRITE program. They will then put a formatted 1.44 Meg floppy in the disk drive and use RAWRITE to create a QL boot floppy. This disk can then be used for a standard QL or many of the emulators that have floppy access. I have put a number of files on the disk, including the PE, TK2, TTK, QLIB run, and other extensions. I've also included QED and UNZIP. I'll right up some instructions and send the whole lot to Dilwyn in a couple of days. This should at least get us started on helping those new or returning to the QL. With unzip on the disk, they will then be able to download anything to their PC, xfer it cross to the QL, and then unzip it. To help read the PC floppies on the QL side, should I put MTOOLS on the boot disk too? I think my next task is to document from the QL and/or PC how to xfer the .zip files to the QL. Then I can see if I need MTOOLS on the disk or not. The advantage of this disk image is that the person in the middle of nowwhere with an QL and Internet connection can get all they need off the net and don't have to wait for someone to send them a boot floppy. Tim Swenson ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] QL disk transfer
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Timothy Swenson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes Using the idea from Dave Walker I have created a QL boot disk image using the RAWREAD utility. The end QLer will download this disk image file and RAWRITE program. They will then put a formatted 1.44 Meg floppy in the disk drive and use RAWRITE to create a QL boot floppy. This disk can then be used for a standard QL or many of the emulators that have floppy access. I have put a number of files on the disk, including the PE, TK2, TTK, QLIB run, and other extensions. I've also included QED and UNZIP. I'll right up some instructions and send the whole lot to Dilwyn in a couple of days. This should at least get us started on helping those new or returning to the QL. With unzip on the disk, they will then be able to download anything to their PC, xfer it cross to the QL, and then unzip it. To help read the PC floppies on the QL side, should I put MTOOLS on the boot disk too? I think my next task is to document from the QL and/or PC how to xfer the .zip files to the QL. Then I can see if I need MTOOLS on the disk or not. The advantage of this disk image is that the person in the middle of nowwhere with an QL and Internet connection can get all they need off the net and don't have to wait for someone to send them a boot floppy. Looking useful, Tim. When this is ready I could also put it on my web site, for the London QL and Quanta Group page. -- Malcolm Cadman ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] QL disk transfer
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Dennis Sutherland [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes Dilwyn, speaking as one of the uninformed/non-technical types you got a great idea here. It may even get me back to the copy of QPC2 Demo I d/lded a year or two ago. Still lurking here but most (99%) of it goes overr my head. Denny Give another whirl Denny ... you are missing out on a lot. Once you have it set up it is as easy ... as erm, well windows ... :-) -- Malcolm Cadman ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] QL disk transfer
- Original Message - From: Dilwyn Jones To: QL Users List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2006 10:28 PM Subject: Re: [ql-users] QL disk transfer 4. Once you've transferred the archived QDOS Unzip to QL system, how to unpack it when you don't have an unzip (the Chicken and Egg situation)! (i.e. explain Jonathan's self-extract routines in simpler terms and what to do when it stops halfway through self-extraction when you have to type in commands to get it going again) Just another point on this discussion. No disrespect to Jonathan intended, but his is the last site I would send someone to who knows nothing about QL unzipping. It is just too technical for most of us. That is why I prefer the old fashioned method of just sending the enquirer a disk. Once he has that unzipping is usually no problem at all - just a couple of commands to learn. The big problems come, as Dilwyn says, when the enquirer has a system that cannot read and write to PC disks. This is a nightmare situation and you almost have to tailor your advice to the individual according to technical knowledge, apparatus and available software. Fortunately most people who download have upgraded to QPC2 and this is much less a problem than it was formerly, Best Wishes, Geoff ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] QL disk transfer
On 15 Mar 2006, at 06:59, Derek Stewart wrote: Why not use QPC to write the QL files from the DOS directory to the QL disks. This is certainly my very much preferred method. But what about those PC directories with long names sometimes including spaces? The QL can't find these. George ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] QL disk transfer
A few things I would like to point out here. The QL UnZIP and ZIP programs do have somewhat fussy command lines. ACP is the best way to zip and Unzip things and I believe it was given away with a QL Today disk some time ago. Many of the QL Today disks have had a working UNZIP program on them and most had a boot file which would unzip the programs on the disk. A little study of this would allow people to use the unzip program for other ends. Finally the best way to unzip stuff, once you have the unzip program on the QL, is to use FileInfo II. A simple file command line and pointing FileInfo II at the unzip program will allow you to execute a zip file from Cueshell or QPAC 2 and have it unzip into the destination of your choice (I usually use RAM1_) I can send you a screen shot of how I have FileInfo II set up for this if you want, Dilwyn. -- Roy Wood Q Branch. 20 Locks Hill, Portslade, Sussex.BN41 2LB Tel: +44 (0) 1273 386030fax: +44 (0) 1273 430501 skype : royqbranch web : www.qbranch.demon.co.uk ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] QL disk transfer
- Original Message - From: Dilwyn Jones To: QL Users List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2006 8:18 PM Subject: Re: [ql-users] QL disk transfer In terms of the sort of query I was raising, most people in this situation seem to manage handling Unzip reasonably well, where people seem to get stuck seems to be: 1. Getting the downloaded software to a QL, whether it be via floppy disk, serial link or whatever. 2. Having downloaded Unzip onto a PC, how to get it onto a QL, unpacked (without an existing copy of Unzip, the catch 22 situation) even before you get to the point of unzipping something! Jonathan Hudson has documented how to self-extract Unzip, even to the point of explaining what to do when it stops half done as it does on some systems. There is quite a simple solution to the chicken and egg problem with unzip. Just send the enquirer a disk with it on. Most of us have a stock of old DD disks we no longer use. Just wrap one in bubble foam, put in a cheap envelope with a second class stamp. I've done it many times. I have also successfully sold many copies of QPC2. When someone asks for my help in transferring files to a PC because they are abandoning the QL, I send them a copy of the QPC2 demo disk. Often the next stop for them is Roy or Jochen. Sometimes the old fashioned solutions work best, Best wishes, Geoff PS What about a nice little challenge for Quanta? Investigate the possibility of a telephone line at all shows and then offer a download facility for those members who cannot access the internet! ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] QL disk transfer
Finally the best way to unzip stuff, once you have the unzip program on the QL, is to use FileInfo II. A simple file command line and pointing FileInfo II at the unzip program will allow you to execute a zip file from Cueshell or QPAC 2 and have it unzip into the destination of your choice (I usually use RAM1_) I can send you a screen shot of how I have FileInfo II set up for this if you want, Dilwyn. This will be too much for some users I'm afraid. I already have FileInfo setup to point to unzip, though in my case I do this to get a quick listing rather than extraction. A simple 4 or 5-line basic program (see below) seems to be what most people appreciate as a first step. The target user (to answer to Tim's comment) is a person who downloads zipped QL software off the net for the first time and can't figure out how to get it to the QL, but has enough knowledge and confidence to follow get-you-started instructions. As far as I'm concerned, the easiest way is to copy short enough zip files onto a PC format disk, use short enough filenames, and use something like Discover or IBMdisk to copy it off the PC disk to a QL floppy ro ramdisk or romdisq or whatever, then use QL unzip and proceed from there. Snag is, need to get these QL transfer programs to QL in the first place unless you already have a copy or able to get one on QL floppy. What seems to go wrong for most people is the actual getting QL unzip to a QL without physically receiving a copy on QL disk. You have to download it from Jonathan's website, figure out the above to get it to a QL, then figure out how to self-extract it unless you already have a QL unzip. The easy way is get it on a QL floppy from someone like me, but I can't really remember the last time anyone asked for PD stuff on a floppy from me! Don't forget, most of us on this list probably take unzip and disk transfer in our stride. It's not funny for people doing it for the first time! In other words, treat it as being for someone fairly non-technical who is downloading QL software from the net for the first time, although I usually find that with the right basic information, the majority of people do manage rather better than I expected. 1. Most QL software on the net is downloaded in zipped format which should be unzipped on a QL system of some type (i.e. don't unzip in Windows or DOS and explain briefly why not - loss of QL executable file header and dataspace on non-QL systems, usual sympton: program gives bad parameter error on trying to exec it). 2. Copy of QL unzip needed. Where to get it from (Jonathan Hudson website or Infozip.org mainly, sites like mine also carry copies, as do PD libraries and some QL cover disks). 3. How to transfer files to QDOS/SMSQE system and the merits and downsides of each option, e.g. cost of emulators, sizes of downloads, ease of setup, Discover needs a free registration code, practicalities of slow serial links etc etc. Options for transfer I can think of off the top of my head are: - use of PC floppies and disk transfer software running on QL (name the programs - Discover, Multi-DOS, IBMdisk etc, how/where to get them, etc) - use of file transfer software running on a PC, such as QLtools and wxqt2 (wxqt2 is a Jonathan Hudson program) - use of QL emulators (QPC and DOS device, what QemuLator is able to do, QLay needs to use special version of qltools software to transfer) - SMSQ(E)'s ability to read both QL and DOS format floppy disks - serial links (a good degree of info on this is available on my website) - any orther options I haven't thought of! 4. Once you've transferred the archived QDOS Unzip to QL system, how to unpack it when you don't have an unzip (the Chicken and Egg situation)! (i.e. explain Jonathan's self-extract routines in simpler terms and what to do when it stops halfway through self-extraction when you have to type in commands to get it going again) 5. Warn about issues like needing Toolkit 2 and to ignore the warning messages issued by some versions of unzip when you don't have Signal Extensions installed. The one I usually forget to mention is that you need expanded memory of course. Then you need to mention some programs need PE and so on. 6. How to set up Unzip on your system and very brief and simple examples of how to unzip programs - this little bit of superbasic is the kind of thing I send to most people as the simplest way to handle unzip at the most basic level: 10 input 'Where is unzip (drive name)?';unzip$ 20 input 'unzip which zip file?';ip$ 30 input 'unzip to which drive?';op$ 40 ex unzip$'unzip';'-d'op$' 'ip$ or 40 DATA_USE op$:EX unzip$'unzip';ip$ I just ran through a simple transfer to ensure I'd broadly included everything above and sure enough all sorts of small issues got flagged up (I realised I'd left out step 5 for example). I'm sure you'll understand what I mean. Keep it simple and fairly brief, or people won't read it. Once people have got past the
Re: [ql-users] QL disk transfer
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Dilwyn Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes That's the kind of information that needs to go into this tutorial, I really hope someone will take up the challenge and write something because the same questions are being asked over and over again and the need for information is clearly there. Actually it is just this kind of thing which I started the 'Start Here' Series in QL Today for. If someone could write this up it would be a good addition to the series. Remember I did not intend to write the whole thing myself. I have been hoping that some other people would add articles more in their area of expertise. -- Roy Wood Q Branch. 20 Locks Hill, Portslade, Sussex.BN41 2LB Tel: +44 (0) 1273 386030fax: +44 (0) 1273 430501 skype : royqbranch web : www.qbranch.demon.co.uk ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] QL disk transfer
Roy Wood wrote: Actually it is just this kind of thing which I started the 'Start Here' Series in QL Today for. If someone could write this up it would be a good addition to the series. Remember I did not intend to write the whole thing myself. I have been hoping that some other people would add articles more in their area of expertise. Exactly. Malcolm Cadman wrote: Once a user has the unzip program, this small basic program is useful for unzipping QL files. Without bothering with anything else, or having to know the unzip command syntax. Little programs like this make it a lot easier for people who don't know (and don't want/need to know) how to command-line-drive programs like Unzip. In terms of the sort of query I was raising, most people in this situation seem to manage handling Unzip reasonably well, where people seem to get stuck seems to be: 1. Getting the downloaded software to a QL, whether it be via floppy disk, serial link or whatever. 2. Having downloaded Unzip onto a PC, how to get it onto a QL, unpacked (without an existing copy of Unzip, the catch 22 situation) even before you get to the point of unzipping something! Jonathan Hudson has documented how to self-extract Unzip, even to the point of explaining what to do when it stops half done as it does on some systems. As much as anything, what's needed is a really simple guide to: (1) how to transfer files between Windows/DOS and QL disks (2) step by step guide to downloading QL unzip, transferring it to QL, self-extracting it for those without existing Unzip on their QL, and how to set it up (since 99% of QL software out there seems to be zipped). (1) and (2) would address the kind of queries I was referring to, but of course something more general would probably fit in with what Roy was trying to achieve via his QL Today series. The little suggestions I've received via this list and privately are being gathered into a folder here and if nobody else comes up with anything, I may in time put together a little something to help and anybody hosting QL software download sites will be welcome to link to it to help QL ers out there, as I'm sure the enquiries I'm getting are from users who are somewhat isolated and have little contact with other QLers (e.g. I had an email from Antartica recently, from a member of British Antarctic Survey IIRC, who is using QemuLator on a Mac down there during his 2 year spell of duty there). Needless to say, I try to steer such people in the direction of Quanta, QL Today and this mailing list to help them keep in contact with other QLers. Without referring to anyone in particular, however much it gets said, I'm still amazed at how often I'm told people have unzipped my QL programs on a PC and then complain they don't work quoting the bad parameter error. I guess the best way to do this is to link from my home page to a page describing how to go about the transfer process int he simplest possible terms. -- Dilwyn Jones -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.2.1/279 - Release Date: 10/03/2006 ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] QL disk transfer
Looking at the questions that Dilwyn originally discussed on this topic, they seem rather broad and to cover a lot of subjects. Some with zipping, some with just QLAY. Kind of hard to tackle something that broad, but is a list of individual questions are written, then this makes it easier to digest and write. I will relook at the original questions and see if I can tackle some of them. We should also look for past articles in QL today or other sources for writing that has already been done. Then it is just a matter of collecting all of the questions and answers and put them into one source. It would be nice to know the target audience. Are they QL'ers with black QL's? Are they folks coming back to the fold and using QLAY, UQLX or Qemulator? Tim Swenson ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] QL disk transfer
That's the kind of information that needs to go into this tutorial, I really hope someone will take up the challenge and write something because the same questions are being asked over and over again and the need for information is clearly there. -- Dilwyn Jones - Original Message - From: Tony Firshman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 1:14 PM Subject: Re: [ql-users] QL disk transfer Dilwyn Jones wrote: onto a QL disk? 4. How to get past the catch 22 of needing to unzip the Unzip program on a QL when you haven't got Unzip already. (use the JRH SFX procedure to make Unzip self-extract and how to work around it on the 1% of systems the SFX doesn't work, or order a copy from a PD service on floppy disk) The QBBS method developed by TOny Price in 1988 of processing the unzip_exe into unzip_exe_hdr and then using a basic program (QDOS_HDR_BAS I think) to re-construct is totally foolproof on all systems. -- QBBS (QL fido BBS 2:252/67) +44(0)1442-828255 tony@surname.co.uk http://firshman.co.uk Voice: +44(0)1442-828254 Fax: +44(0)1442-828255 Skype: tonyfirshman TF Services, 29 Longfield Road, TRING, Herts, HP23 4DG ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.2.1/279 - Release Date: 10/03/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.2.1/279 - Release Date: 10/03/2006 ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] QL disk transfer
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Dilwyn Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes how do I unzip QL Info-unzip onto a QL disk to unzip programs with if it's already zipped and you need a copy of itself to unzip itself catch 22... (follow JRH's self-extract instructions on his website) Once a user has the unzip program, this small basic program is useful for unzipping QL files. Without bothering with anything else, or having to know the unzip command syntax. I believe it came to C-Tutor. 100 REMarkUNARC_BAS 110 REMark 120 REMark This program is used to run unzip in a simple extract mode 130 : 140 CLS#0 150 PRINT#0,Please answer following questions\(or press ENTER to accept [default])\\ 160 devd$=DATAD$ 170 INPUT#0,Which device holds the UNZIP2 program [ PROGD$ ]: ;progdev$ 180 IF progdev$ = THEN progdev$ = PROGD$ 190 INPUT#0,Which device holds the ZIP'ed file [ DATAD$ ]:;arcdev$ 200 IF arcdev$ =:arcdev$ = DATAD$ 210 INPUT#0,What is name of the archive [C_Tutor_zip]:;arcname$ 220 IF arcname$ =:arcname$ = C_Tutor_zip 230 INPUT#0,Where should the extracted files be put [ DATAD$ ]:;datadev$ 240 IF datadev$ =:datadev$ = DATAD$ 250 DATA_USE datadev$ 260 EW progdev$ unzip;arcdev$ arcname$ 270 DATA_USE devd$ 280 : 290 DEFine PROCedure S 300 DELETE win1_SYS_Unzip_bas 310 SAVE win1_SYS_Unzip_bas 320 END DEFine -- Malcolm Cadman ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] QL disk transfer
Dilwyn Jones wrote: onto a QL disk? 4. How to get past the catch 22 of needing to unzip the Unzip program on a QL when you haven't got Unzip already. (use the JRH SFX procedure to make Unzip self-extract and how to work around it on the 1% of systems the SFX doesn't work, or order a copy from a PD service on floppy disk) The QBBS method developed by TOny Price in 1988 of processing the unzip_exe into unzip_exe_hdr and then using a basic program (QDOS_HDR_BAS I think) to re-construct is totally foolproof on all systems. -- QBBS (QL fido BBS 2:252/67) +44(0)1442-828255 tony@surname.co.uk http://firshman.co.uk Voice: +44(0)1442-828254 Fax: +44(0)1442-828255 Skype: tonyfirshman TF Services, 29 Longfield Road, TRING, Herts, HP23 4DG ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
