[ql-users] 68SZ328
Hi, Well, by the graces and capabilities of my employer I have managed to get a hold of 10 samples of the 68SZ328. The prise is about 17EUR plus VAT and carriage but I won't know for sure untill I get the info from the accountant as he ordered other things with them. As we discussed, he wants to build a small machine that would drive a CRT or LCD monitor, could be easily programmed, and would run some games. The idea of running it under SMSQ/E was discussed and he seems very interested in this as it's small and relaively easy to program. I've also roped in another 68k programmer that used to program Atari STs etc, and he is very impressed by the docs I gave him on SMSQ/E - he also downloaded the source. I plan to drag him by his heels if needed, to QL2004 later this year... he's the kind of guy that is capable of doing anything if only he finds it interesting ;-) I also have a small 640x480 TFT LCD, unfortunately only one but I think it would be sufficient for experimenting - a VGA output will be provided for sure, it's one fo the design goals to have it. The idea is to make a board about the size of the LCD that the LCD would bolt onto, and that would be the whole computer. Since I will have to design this board for work, I have discussed the possibility to make a number of them available to the QL community in return for work done on porting SMSQ/E, which I think would be beneficieal for all. The board itself is going to implement most if not all of the SZ functions - Most probably the largest possible RAM size would be used (that would be 2 banks of 32M, but depends on what chips I can get as the SZ uses a 16 bit bus), a decent size Flash ROM for booting from (2M at least, probably more depending on part prices), a MMC or SD memory card socket and probably USB will be included, ditto serial ports, VGA out, some sort of matrix keyboard (probably 8x8 like the original QLs, makes things easy), sound (most probably mono due to the limitations of the SZ), and anything else of use that comes to mind. The SZ literally has tons of functions... Not an easy board to make as the SZ has 196 pins on a small square chip, a 14x14 grid of ball contacts on a .8mm pitch. It is truly very small. The board will be 4 layers for sure, possibly 6. Graphics could be very easily made to be compatible with Aurora 256 color, and 16 color - the slight problem is that there is no capability to faithfully emulate old QL graphics but I think a screen emulation scheme could work, though it would only be for initial developement. Things to decide: * There is also a 16 bit color mode but it uses up a lot of the memory bandwidth for usable resolutions, which would slow down the CPU, so resolutins might be limited. This however remains to be tested experimentally. I'm leaning towards not using this mode as the CPU is after all only a 68000, even if clocked at 66MHz - it's alot of data to move around. * I'm not sure yet about implementing a QL compatible (or semi-compatible with some extensions) expansion port, but it might be usefull for developement purposes. If nothing else, one could put an old floppy controler on it to transfer files. Problems with this include accurately emulating QL timing (I think this could be done), and power considerations - the SZ is a 3.3V CPU. Additional buffer chips are a given for this, but they can be omitted together with the connector for apps where no expansion port is needed. An additional consideration is routing of the signal lines. * Use of one of the serial ports as IRDA - depends on the availability, price and power consumption of IRDA RX/TX modules. * Use of the SPI interface for, eg. a PS2 mouse port. Questions: software, power consumption... * USB - the SZ implements a USB slave device, which should not be terribly difficult to program a driver for, but as usual, doing a driver is a problem... * CF or IDE interface - very easy to do but again requires routing wires and extra buffer chips (fortunately, not many of them). Depends on PCB realestate, the SZ has so many functions that just providing connectors for all of them uses up masses of board space. Also, would require some changes in the drivers (either native SMSQ/E or Qubide). * Touch screen support - the SZ has it built in, and I will leave connectors for it, but supporting it will depend on wether I can get a touch screen panel of the right size without paying for it through the nose. The SZ also has some quite nice features for debugging, it can be boot-loaded from the serial port - a toolkit to do this could be easily written in Sbasic. The added advantage of using SMSQ/E is that my employer will certainly need a number of QPC licences as well as other QL software ;-) Oh, yes - another thing: my current email address will stop working sometime in September as the ISP has changed it's domain name, so instead of zeljkoDOTnastasicATzgDOTtelDOThr it will be zeljkoDOTnastasicATzgDOThinetDOThr. The latter already works, I just need
Re: [ql-users] 68SZ328
On 5 Jul 2004 at 13:28, ZN wrote: () - he also downloaded the source. Hooray (sorry, couldn't help that). (...the whole story...) this would be a very intesresting topic to discuss during the Eindhoven meeting! By all means, try to get your guy there (and yourself, too!). I would certainly try to lend a hand at adapting SMSQE, if at all possible. Wolfgang www.scp-paulet-lenerz.com ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.quanta.org.uk/mailing.htm
Re: [ql-users] 68SZ328
On 5.7.2004 at 15:51 Wolfgang Lenerz wrote: this would be a very intesresting topic to discuss during the Eindhoven meeting! By all means, try to get your guy there (and yourself, too!). I would certainly try to lend a hand at adapting SMSQE, if at all possible. Wolfgang Eh, sorry for this, the message was not intended for the list... but I suppose now that I've let some sort of cat out of the bag, any comment is welcome. Regarding this piece of hardware, I am trying to sort of skid around on the edge of a blade - trying to make it both what my employer wants it to be, as well as a product for the QL community. He is willing to pay for the hardware side of the developement, and this hardware could then be made available to the QL community essentially at cost, which is what the community needs. On the other hand my employer needs the expertise people of the community have regarding porting of the OS and some applications. The end product could then be marketed in several markets. Don't ask me about costs yet, I have no idea as it's all under developement. I know that boards are going to be made in neighbouring Slovenia, which is now part of the EU. General specs are as follows: * 66MHz 68SZ328 CPU (performance should be about 50% faster than SGC) * VGA monitor output (640 x 480 resolution or slightly over - theoretical limit is 1024x512 + there is a virtual screen feature) graphics in 256 colors (65536 is possible but only for lower resolutions due to memory bandwidth limitations) * Integrated small LCD display (6-7 diagonal) option to make a palm sized computer, stylus digitizer hardware included for touch sensitive displays. * 32 or 64M of RAM built in (not expandable) * 2M (at least) of Flash built in * MMC or SD flash card for storage (Sony Memory Stick is also possible but as this is less proliferant, more expensive, and larger, it will probably not be used) * 2 serial ports (or one serial and one IRDA) with high baud rate support. * Matrix keyboard (8x8, probably compatible with QL keyrow assignments) * USB device port (NOT host controller - the board would be a device to be connected to a host for data transfer) * Mono sound in/out * Real Time Clock * Low power * (possible extra features like a QL compatible expansion bus, CF or IDE port, parallel port, dimensions that make it fit a regular QL case, etc). ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.quanta.org.uk/mailing.htm
[ql-users] Disk drive wanted
I have received this email via the QL2004 webpage. Patrick is a Belgian and has an old QL system with Cumana Disk Drives, which are no longer working. He is interested in buying a new double drive. It sounds as though he has a very old, simple system. His email address is Patrick.Broekmans1 @ pandora.be - Original Message - From: Patrick Broekmans To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2004 10:55 PM Subject: QL2004 Info Hallo,geachte QL-clubleden, Mijn naam is Patrick Broekmans uit Berchem,Belgium.Ik heb vroeger een QL gehad,maar na vele verhuizingen blijkt dat de Cumana Dual Disk Drive verwrongen is en geen diskettes meer leest.Kan a.u.b. iemand mij contacteren om tegen vergoeding zijn (occasie)disk drive (graag dubbele disk drive) te verkopen?Ik ben allengs hopeloos aan het worden. Graag een berichtje terug,a.u.b. ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.quanta.org.uk/mailing.htm
Re: [ql-users] 68SZ328
Good luck with this project, it sounds very interesting and welcome. A fairly low cost SMSQ/E compatible of this sort would eb a welcome addition to the family of QL-type machines, especially if it could be a portable with VGA LCD screen. -- Dilwyn Jones - Original Message - From: ZN [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, July 05, 2004 12:28 PM Subject: [ql-users] 68SZ328 Hi, Well, by the graces and capabilities of my employer I have managed to get a hold of 10 samples of the 68SZ328. The prise is about 17EUR plus VAT and carriage but I won't know for sure untill I get the info from the accountant as he ordered other things with them. As we discussed, he wants to build a small machine that would drive a CRT or LCD monitor, could be easily programmed, and would run some games. The idea of running it under SMSQ/E was discussed and he seems very interested in this as it's small and relaively easy to program. I've also roped in another 68k programmer that used to program Atari STs etc, and he is very impressed by the docs I gave him on SMSQ/E - he also downloaded the source. I plan to drag him by his heels if needed, to QL2004 later this year... he's the kind of guy that is capable of doing anything if only he finds it interesting ;-) I also have a small 640x480 TFT LCD, unfortunately only one but I think it would be sufficient for experimenting - a VGA output will be provided for sure, it's one fo the design goals to have it. The idea is to make a board about the size of the LCD that the LCD would bolt onto, and that would be the whole computer. Since I will have to design this board for work, I have discussed the possibility to make a number of them available to the QL community in return for work done on porting SMSQ/E, which I think would be beneficieal for all. The board itself is going to implement most if not all of the SZ functions - Most probably the largest possible RAM size would be used (that would be 2 banks of 32M, but depends on what chips I can get as the SZ uses a 16 bit bus), a decent size Flash ROM for booting from (2M at least, probably more depending on part prices), a MMC or SD memory card socket and probably USB will be included, ditto serial ports, VGA out, some sort of matrix keyboard (probably 8x8 like the original QLs, makes things easy), sound (most probably mono due to the limitations of the SZ), and anything else of use that comes to mind. The SZ literally has tons of functions... Not an easy board to make as the SZ has 196 pins on a small square chip, a 14x14 grid of ball contacts on a .8mm pitch. It is truly very small. The board will be 4 layers for sure, possibly 6. Graphics could be very easily made to be compatible with Aurora 256 color, and 16 color - the slight problem is that there is no capability to faithfully emulate old QL graphics but I think a screen emulation scheme could work, though it would only be for initial developement. Things to decide: * There is also a 16 bit color mode but it uses up a lot of the memory bandwidth for usable resolutions, which would slow down the CPU, so resolutins might be limited. This however remains to be tested experimentally. I'm leaning towards not using this mode as the CPU is after all only a 68000, even if clocked at 66MHz - it's alot of data to move around. * I'm not sure yet about implementing a QL compatible (or semi-compatible with some extensions) expansion port, but it might be usefull for developement purposes. If nothing else, one could put an old floppy controler on it to transfer files. Problems with this include accurately emulating QL timing (I think this could be done), and power considerations - the SZ is a 3.3V CPU. Additional buffer chips are a given for this, but they can be omitted together with the connector for apps where no expansion port is needed. An additional consideration is routing of the signal lines. * Use of one of the serial ports as IRDA - depends on the availability, price and power consumption of IRDA RX/TX modules. * Use of the SPI interface for, eg. a PS2 mouse port. Questions: software, power consumption... * USB - the SZ implements a USB slave device, which should not be terribly difficult to program a driver for, but as usual, doing a driver is a problem... * CF or IDE interface - very easy to do but again requires routing wires and extra buffer chips (fortunately, not many of them). Depends on PCB realestate, the SZ has so many functions that just providing connectors for all of them uses up masses of board space. Also, would require some changes in the drivers (either native SMSQ/E or Qubide). * Touch screen support - the SZ has it built in, and I will leave connectors for it, but supporting it will depend on wether I can get a touch screen panel of the right size without paying for it through the nose. The SZ also has some quite nice features for debugging, it can be boot-loaded from
Re: [ql-users] Disk drive wanted
In a message dated 05/07/2004 21:07:35 GMT Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I have received this email via the QL2004 webpage. Patrick is a Belgian and has an old QL system with Cumana Disk Drives, which are no longer working. He is interested in buying a new double drive. It sounds as though he has a very old, simple system. His email address is OK - I have replacement disk drives - a Miracle twin unit. Do you want to speak with him direct (in case he does not understand much English). He can have a twin drive unit for £15 plus post and packing (about £8.50 if I send them to you to take to the QL 2004 show). Otherwise, you could ask Roy Wood if he has a spare set to take to the show and then Patrick will not have to pay any pp !! If he wants them before the show, then let me know and I will calculate the pp to send a set to Belgium. -- Rich Mellor RWAP Services 35 Chantry Croft, Kinsley, Pontefract, West Yorkshire, WF9 5JH TEL: 01977 610509 Visit our website at URL:http://www.rwapsoftware.co.uk Stuck with ordinary dial up internet connection ?? Read our review of internet accelerators and broadband at: URL: http://www.rwapadventures.com/Services/reviews.html ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.quanta.org.uk/mailing.htm
Re: [ql-users] 68SZ328
On Mon, 05 Jul 2004 23:22:34 +0200, Joachim Van der Auwera [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ZN wrote: ... text snipped ... Cool. This is exactly the kind of project I asked about some months ago. Could be very useful for me at work, we may be able to shift a few of these. Though I would strongly encourage including support for a PS2 keyboard. Great, If I can help (time permitting) Two extra features which would be good (from the kind of applications I have in mind) are extra RS232 ports and a network connection. Though for that network connection we come back to the classical driver problems. Drivers for Ethernet now exist (courtesy of Peter Graf) and so a full TCP/IP suite (from the retawq browser to FTP servers and clients etc). Although the SMSQ/e license issue will be a problem... Phoebus ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.quanta.org.uk/mailing.htm
Re: [ql-users] Disk drive wanted
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes Don't forget that some of the Cumana interfaces have reversed connections for the drives ! In a message dated 05/07/2004 21:07:35 GMT Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I have received this email via the QL2004 webpage. Patrick is a Belgian and has an old QL system with Cumana Disk Drives, which are no longer working. He is interested in buying a new double drive. It sounds as though he has a very old, simple system. His email address is OK - I have replacement disk drives - a Miracle twin unit. Do you want to speak with him direct (in case he does not understand much English). He can have a twin drive unit for £15 plus post and packing (about £8.50 if I send them to you to take to the QL 2004 show). Otherwise, you could ask Roy Wood if he has a spare set to take to the show and then Patrick will not have to pay any pp !! If he wants them before the show, then let me know and I will calculate the pp to send a set to Belgium. -- Rich Mellor RWAP Services 35 Chantry Croft, Kinsley, Pontefract, West Yorkshire, WF9 5JH TEL: 01977 610509 Visit our website at URL:http://www.rwapsoftware.co.uk Stuck with ordinary dial up internet connection ?? Read our review of internet accelerators and broadband at: URL: http://www.rwapadventures.com/Services/reviews.html ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.quanta.org.uk/mailing.htm -- Roy Wood Q Branch. 20 Locks Hill, Portslade, Sussex.BN41 2LB Tel: +44 (0) 1273 386030fax: +44 (0) 1273 430501 web : www.qbranch.demon.co.uk ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.quanta.org.uk/mailing.htm
