Re: [ql-users] Trump Cards and FORMAT or other OS's
What small file? - Original Message - From: Mike MacNamara [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 12:13 AM Subject: Re: [ql-users] Trump Cards and FORMAT or other OS's Register, Whats that, quicker to copy 1 small file from previous version, stopping need for re registering when changing machines. Perfectly legal. M - Original Message - From: Phoebus Dokos [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, December 11, 2004 2:40 PM ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Trump Cards and FORMAT
P Witte wrote: Phoebus Dokos writes: However in all truth, there is a GREAT SMSQ/e partition tools only it doesn't run under SMSQ/e... it runs under Linux (atari-fdisk) and it's worth to boot a ram-based linux only for atari-fdisk :-) Is there any reason why it could not be ported to Qdos/Smsq? If you are looking for a partition program for a Q40/Q60 that run on SMSQ/E, I might very well provide you with mine: it's PE and allow up to 12 partitions on first sector (standard partition scheme). In fact, it's just a half-cooked partition sector editor. You could even have more partition by using more than sector 0 (but that's by hand, you have to know how to link additional partition in Extended partition.) ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Trump Cards and FORMAT
Roy wood wrote: In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], ZN [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes The major part is more radical. It is high time that hard drive partitions and formats be unified on QL platforms, and in fact, it is only Qubide that does not directly conform to the norm. It should be possible (indeed, it should not be much work) to convert the SMSQ/E win drivers for Qx0 to run on Qubide hardware. The problem here is the lack of utilities. Qubide's format and partition utilities are, to my knowledge, far more than is available to the Qx0 user. Adding a partition might be less useful than supporting large drives and leaving the separation down to Sub Directories. I say this thinking of the limitations on 8 devices. 8 devices, yes, that's the first limit. Then there is that 16 devices limit in the kernel tables... at least, 8 devices limit is only: 8 mounted partitions at the same time. With a suitable partition program, big drives could be split in small slices, and a small PE utility which would allow to switch from the list of possible partitions to the list of actual mounted partition would make life easier in such configuration. The biggest trouble so far is big partition. I have seen trouble with the caching facility whenever the partition is big enough (and filled enough), probably a collision on the indexing mechanism. It was made for small removable drive (microdrive, ramdisk, floppies), not for a huge filesystem. Partition smaller than 128MB are safe. Bigger than 512MB are not... Mind you that takes us back to the old Long Name argument. I must admit my views on that have changed over the last few years - since we last had the discussion and I feel that we should be prepared to make that major jump into new directory structure. It would leave many older programs out in the cold but I suppose you could, as you suggest, always use the partitions in different modes in the same way that windows will handle FAT32 and NTFS on the same machine. This would take someone far more competent than me to work out though and, as you say someone who can write that kind of driver code. And then come the dreadful question: should we reinvent the wheel (... a filesystem) or adapt to an existing one (and which one ? and why ?) Fat32 and NTFS fan beware: we are still going to run into the Motorola/Intel bytes ordering issue. Not a good thing at all. ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Trump Cards and FORMAT or other OS's
Sat, 11 Dec 2004 02:27:19 -,() Mike MacNamara [EMAIL PROTECTED] /wrote: - Original Message - From: Phoebus Dokos [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 11:35 PM Subject: Re: [ql-users] Trump Cards and FORMAT or other OS's Fri, 10 Dec 2004 10:51:35 -,() jms1 [EMAIL PROTECTED] /wrote: That is not true... I have Windows XP-64bit here courtesy of the Uni... Windows XP64bit Edition is freely available from MS, with a years free license, either download from MS site, or they send a CD free of charge. It is still in final Beta stage, but another big step forward. Download site http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/64bit/evaluation/upgrade.mspx cheers mike Absolutely is however you have to register :-) I didn't :-) All my M$ programs are Corporate editions (ie never have to be activated - Including Windows XP) and require no registration! And yet they are completely legal (I have the MSDN agreement to prove it too :-) Phoebus ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Trump Cards and FORMAT or other OS's
Sun, 12 Dec 2004 00:13:04 -,() Mike MacNamara [EMAIL PROTECTED] /wrote: Register, Whats that, quicker to copy 1 small file from previous version, stopping need for re registering when changing machines. Perfectly legal. It is NOT legal actually... read the fine print... regardless you are probably speaking of only Win 64bit... I am talking about every single M$ program that I have... That includes Office 2003 Developer Edition (Including Visio Pro 2003 and Project Pro 2003), VS.NET 2003, Win.NET Server 2003, WinXP Pro, MS SQL Server Dev.Ed and WebServer Edition (Both 2002 interim), WSRM, and Virtual PC 2003 :-) ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Trump Cards and FORMAT or other OS's
mmm... I have done this since the first time XP said it needed to contact MS, and the ' MS person' said I could only use 3 or 4 installatins I had 6 PCs networked here at the time. Not an option. Its works on all XP versions, although we also use the corporate version, it is useful when upgrading others PCs, new CPU, Cards, etc. If you think it is not legal, I won't divulge the reputable industry communication it comes from. M - Original Message - From: Phoebus Dokos [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 3:57 AM Subject: Re: [ql-users] Trump Cards and FORMAT or other OS's Sun, 12 Dec 2004 02:09:17 -,() Mike MacNamara [EMAIL PROTECTED] /wrote: Not quite. for ALL versions. Quote To perform the backup, follow these steps: Peform Backup is the magic word... backup means the same version... quite different from new installations. Modifying new installations is illegal... Restoring the same installation... legal :-) I maybe of course taking this out of context... regardless, for a Beta version that may be possible but not for other versions Phoebus ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Trump Cards and FORMAT or other OS's
Sun, 12 Dec 2004 04:09:08 -,() Mike MacNamara [EMAIL PROTECTED] /wrote: mmm... I have done this since the first time XP said it needed to contact MS, and the ' MS person' said I could only use 3 or 4 installatins I had 6 PCs networked here at the time. Not an option. Its works on all XP versions, although we also use the corporate version, it is useful when upgrading others PCs, new CPU, Cards, etc. If you think it is not legal, I won't divulge the reputable industry communication it comes from. M I have specific instructions from the resident M$ Officer at our Uni (yes see in what deadly embrace Universities here are with Microsoft that we have a Microsoft Liaison Officer... paid by the University!) that situations like that although possible are strictly illegal. Microsoft has created deployment tools for that reason only, else everyone would be doing it (out in the open that is)... Of course the whole idea of a restoring certain information files across installations being illegal; especially when the software is legally bought wouldn't really hold much water in court but nonetheless it is there in the (very fine) print... It is primarily for illegal users but it's broad enough that covers everybody (trust me Microsoft only leave loopholes in its code, not its legal documents ;-) Phoebus ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Trump Cards and FORMAT
In a message dated 10/12/04 12:25:14 GMT Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: As far as I can see, path 3 is probably your course - go for something radically new and different and leave legacy and compatibility issues behind because those that want their computer to run a 1984 program will run it on a QL and reasonable efforts will be made to get it to work on a Q60 or an emulator. That way, as long as the relevant information is available, software writers will most likely follow you. The most important things to pursue most likely will be to try to make sure that the major development tools work or are updated for the new hardware - I'm referring to C68, Turbo, Easyptr, QLiberator, QPTR, Gwass and the like. I'm pretty sure you'll find that guys like me who like to get their hands on the latest stuff all the time will feel the urge to write for great new hardware if we can. In this event I would certainly alter GWASS (yet again!) to run under the new system (which seems to have some exciting new instructions even though others are missing). Altering Turbo requires altering Parser_task (S*BASIC + Turbo itself) ans Codegen_task (just assembler). I would expect to carry out these alterations. George ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Trump Cards and FORMAT or other OS's
Register, Whats that, quicker to copy 1 small file from previous version, stopping need for re registering when changing machines. Perfectly legal. M - Original Message - From: Phoebus Dokos [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, December 11, 2004 2:40 PM Subject: Re: [ql-users] Trump Cards and FORMAT or other OS's Sat, 11 Dec 2004 02:27:19 -,() Mike MacNamara [EMAIL PROTECTED] /wrote: - Original Message - From: Phoebus Dokos [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 11:35 PM Subject: Re: [ql-users] Trump Cards and FORMAT or other OS's Fri, 10 Dec 2004 10:51:35 -,() jms1 [EMAIL PROTECTED] /wrote: That is not true... I have Windows XP-64bit here courtesy of the Uni... Windows XP64bit Edition is freely available from MS, with a years free license, either download from MS site, or they send a CD free of charge. It is still in final Beta stage, but another big step forward. Download site http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/64bit/evaluation/upgrade.mspx cheers mike Absolutely is however you have to register :-) I didn't :-) All my M$ programs are Corporate editions (ie never have to be activated - Including Windows XP) and require no registration! And yet they are completely legal (I have the MSDN agreement to prove it too :-) Phoebus ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Trump Cards and FORMAT or other OS's
Not quite. for ALL versions. Quote To perform the backup, follow these steps: 1.. Use Windows Explorer to open the C:\Windows\System32 folder. 2.. Copy the Wpa.dbl and Wpa.bak files to a floppy disk or CD. To perform the restore, follow these steps: 1.. Decline the activation request at the end of the installation procedure, and restart Windows XP. 2.. During bootup, press [F8] to access the Windows Advanced Options menu. 3.. Choose the Safe Mode (SAFEBOOT_OPTION=Minimal) option. 4.. Use Windows Explorer to open the C:\Windows\System32 folder. 5.. If they exist, rename the new Wpa.dbl and Wpa.bak files to Wpadbl.new and Wpabak.new. 6.. Copy the original Wpa.dbl and Wpa.bak files from the floppy disk or CD to the C:\Windows\System32 folder. 7.. Restart the system. end quote M - Original Message - From: Mike MacNamara [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mike MacNamara [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 2:04 AM Subject: Fw: [ql-users] Trump Cards and FORMAT or other OS's - Original Message - From: Phoebus Dokos [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 12:23 AM Subject: Re: [ql-users] Trump Cards and FORMAT or other OS's Sun, 12 Dec 2004 00:13:04 -,() Mike MacNamara [EMAIL PROTECTED] /wrote: Register, Whats that, quicker to copy 1 small file from previous version, stopping need for re registering when changing machines. Perfectly legal. It is NOT legal actually... read the fine print... regardless you are probably speaking of only Win 64bit... I am talking about every single M$ program that I have... That includes Office 2003 Developer Edition (Including Visio Pro 2003 and Project Pro 2003), VS.NET 2003, Win.NET Server 2003, WinXP Pro, MS SQL Server Dev.Ed and WebServer Edition (Both 2002 interim), WSRM, and Virtual PC 2003 :-) ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Trump Cards and FORMAT or other OS's
Sun, 12 Dec 2004 02:09:17 -,() Mike MacNamara [EMAIL PROTECTED] /wrote: Not quite. for ALL versions. Quote To perform the backup, follow these steps: Peform Backup is the magic word... backup means the same version... quite different from new installations. Modifying new installations is illegal... Restoring the same installation... legal :-) I maybe of course taking this out of context... regardless, for a Beta version that may be possible but not for other versions Phoebus ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Trump Cards and FORMAT
On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 at 01:10:11, Phoebus Dokos wrote: (ref: [EMAIL PROTECTED]) snip Well SGCs will never be produced again and that's that... they are way too expensive anyway to make any sense for a *brilliant admittedly* piece of hardware of the 90s Cost is not the real killer. One logic chip (urmm Mach EP1810 I think) was internally changed around 1995. It was still within spec, but Stuart was pushing the chip so hard, that the new chip failed. His timing requirements relied on a specific die. Roy found this out the hard way having bought a large batch. Fortunately I only programmed a few (they are OTP) and he got a refund. We all failed to find any old stock. Well, not quite true. Roy found some, but they were programmed! The wallies were selling them without realising they were OTP. I would never design again with OTP chips unless I had to. With sH I spent over £1000 replacing the PICs sold before we programmed around the PIC bug. RomDisq Lattice 2032 is reprogrammable on board. snip Tony -- QBBS (QL fido BBS 2:252/67) +44(0)1442-828255 tony@surname.co.uk http://www.firshman.co.uk Voice: +44(0)1442-828254 Fax: +44(0)1442-828255 TF Services, 29 Longfield Road, TRING, Herts, HP23 4DG ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: Re: [ql-users] Trump Cards and FORMAT
On 10/12/04 at 12:24 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 1. Qubide II - definitely. Whether QL expansion is SGC or whatever, Qubide remains the only option for hard disk expansion via IDE from a QL or Aurora systems. This is doable, but requires a minor and/or major upgrade to the driver. The minor part is centered about keeping the driver and the disk format the same, just catering for minor differences in the hardware (line not needing to set any jumpers at all and the capability to work with romDisq). Possibly, the initialization sequence could be simplified. All of this assumes that the Qubide source (latest version) is available, and AFAIK, it is (Roy? What is the legal status of it?), and also assumes a person that can look into said source, understand the necessary bits, and change as needed. It may be prudent to start a repository of sources, perhaps best at the official SMSQ site? The major part is more radical. It is high time that hard drive partitions and formats be unified on QL platforms, and in fact, it is only Qubide that does not directly conform to the norm. It should be possible (indeed, it should not be much work) to convert the SMSQ/E win drivers for Qx0 to run on Qubide hardware. The problem here is the lack of utilities. Qubide's format and partition utilities are, to my knowledge, far more than is available to the Qx0 user. Still more radical, it should be possible to support both types of partitions as well, but that requires a lot of work on the driver(s). There are also issues associated with both drivers, namely use of slave blocks and keeping the disk map (FAT or derivatives) in memory... 2. Ethernet - no use for it myself, but people have said on this list they want it. The hardware here is almost trivial, but the software isn't, unless one limits oneself to a modified NET driver that can run on Ethernet hardware. One gets a quick QL network but nothing else... OTOH supporting TCP/IP could in due time expand the usefulness of such hardware imensely. 3. SGC-type expansion. Something is needed, whether you go down the traditionalist path for a plug in and go Miracle-style expansion, or a much more radical path... You have to decide if you wish to go the expansion route (i.e. plug into QL or Aurora) or go for some completely new hardware such as the one you said you are developing for your employer. Actually, it is likely that both will be made available. The 'low end' system would be ehat my employer wants: Very close to a fully kitted out black box QL and then some, as we can make it now. The difference is, that everything is integrated and it is very small - about the size of an Aurora. Functionality is not a quantum leap over that, but it is higher than what we already have - most notably RAM is increased to 32 or 64M, on-board 16M (with support for future 32M chip incuded) Flash for program and data storage is provided, up to 50% more speed than SGC (so still a far cry from Q40), built-in graphics that is similar in some respects and improved in others compared to the Aurora (eg, you can't have more than 512 pixels vertical but you can have 256 colors in all resolutions, and 16 bit color in some, including standard VGA 640x480). Varioous standard ports are included. New features are MMC flash cards, and USB (possibly also ethernet), sampled sound support (mono). CF card support has been seen before, the difference is that connecting a standard IDE drive involves a CF to IDE adapter is needed, not the other way around as would be traditional. It will probably also have a QL type expansion port for peripherals ONLY at least on prototypes - in order to connect a floppy interface or Qubide, to transfer data when setting up the system. It does NOT have a floppy interface - one can be added externally. The video output can also be used as an interface to a TFT LCD, including a touch-screen option. So, it's some of the old with some of the new, in a nice small package - usable as anything from an interesting toy to an industrial controller. Obviously, many features will need to be supported in the OS, either through modified existing drivers, or through completely new ones. The 'high end' is a version of GoldFire or a re-hash of that design using a top of the line ColdFire V4e CPU. In either case, the designs have radicalityt to them: GF design introduces dual processors (I have been going on about this for years now and lo and behold this is the next step the mainstream is taking, admittedly with dual core CPUs instead of dual CPUs, but the idea is similar if not equivalent), along with a full stack of new hardware features, which also involve additions to things like interrupts (by introducing dedicated interrupt levels for fast peripherals and having the ability to route them to either of the two CPUs). Lots of OS and driver work that should prove essential in the future (if there is to be one). This one has the disadvantage of using 68060, which is now officially obsolete, so
Re: Re: [ql-users] Trump Cards and FORMAT
Fri, 10 Dec 2004 16:45:38 +0100,() ZN [EMAIL PROTECTED] /wrote: On 10/12/04 at 12:24 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 1. Qubide II - definitely. Whether QL expansion is SGC or whatever, Qubide remains the only option for hard disk expansion via IDE from a QL or Aurora systems. This is doable, but requires a minor and/or major upgrade to the driver. The minor part is centered about keeping the driver and the disk format the same, just catering for minor differences in the hardware (line not needing to set any jumpers at all and the capability to work with romDisq). Possibly, the initialization sequence could be simplified. All of this assumes that the Qubide source (latest version) is available, and AFAIK, it is Yes it is :-) (Roy? What is the legal status of it?), and also assumes a person that can look into said source, understand the necessary bits, and change as needed. It may be prudent to start a repository of sources, perhaps best at the official SMSQ site? The latest QubIDE v.2.02 is already incorporated in QDOS Classic btw :-) The major part is more radical. It is high time that hard drive partitions and formats be unified on QL platforms, and in fact, it is only Qubide that does not directly conform to the norm. It should be possible (indeed, it should not be much work) to convert the SMSQ/E win drivers for Qx0 to run on Qubide hardware. The problem here is the lack of utilities. Qubide's format and partition utilities are, to my knowledge, far more than is available to the Qx0 user. Absolutely true... and when the QubIDE software is run on a Q40 or Q60 thanks to the wonderful work of Derek Stewart, many of the problems experienced with the regular QubIDE software (ie Not a QubIDE partition message appearing out of nowhere) are now gone. Plus format AND verification (which the SMSQ/e Mkpart doesn't do) is lightning fast... However in all truth, there is a GREAT SMSQ/e partition tools only it doesn't run under SMSQ/e... it runs under Linux (atari-fdisk) and it's worth to boot a ram-based linux only for atari-fdisk :-) Still more radical, it should be possible to support both types of partitions as well, but that requires a lot of work on the driver(s). I am not sure if it feasible without major changes in the QubIDE software There are also issues associated with both drivers, namely use of slave blocks and keeping the disk map (FAT or derivatives) in memory... 2. Ethernet - no use for it myself, but people have said on this list they want it. The hardware here is almost trivial, but the software isn't, unless one limits oneself to a modified NET driver that can run on Ethernet hardware. One gets a quick QL network but nothing else... OTOH supporting TCP/IP could in due time expand the usefulness of such hardware imensely. For that it is most likely that Peter's work on QlwIP will be almost trivial to adapt to a new EtherIDE (AFAIK Peter's hardware driver is for the Realtek chipset which is IIRC what you were going to use too) 3. SGC-type expansion. Something is needed, whether you go down the traditionalist path for a plug in and go Miracle-style expansion, or a much more radical path... You have to decide if you wish to go the expansion route (i.e. plug into QL or Aurora) or go for some completely new hardware such as the one you said you are developing for your employer. Actually, it is likely that both will be made available. When is the keyword here :-D The 'low end' system would be ehat my employer wants: Very close to a fully kitted out black box QL and then some, as we can make it now. The difference is, that everything is integrated and it is very small - about the size of an Aurora. Functionality is not a quantum leap over that, but it is higher than what we already have - most notably RAM is increased to 32 or 64M, on-board 16M (with support for future 32M chip incuded) Flash for program and data storage is provided, up to 50% more speed than SGC (so still a far cry from Q40), built-in graphics that is similar in some respects and improved in others compared to the Aurora (eg, you can't have more than 512 pixels vertical but you can have 256 colors in all resolutions, and 16 bit color in some, including standard VGA 640x480). Varioous standard ports are included. New features are MMC flash cards, and USB (possibly also ethernet), sampled sound support (mono). CF card support has been seen before, the difference is that connecting a standard IDE drive involves a CF to IDE adapter is needed, not the other way around as would be traditional. It will probably also have a QL type expansion port for peripherals ONLY at least on prototypes - in order to connect a floppy interface or Qubide, to transfer data when setting up the system. It does NOT have a floppy interface - one can be added externally. The video output can also be used as an interface to a TFT LCD, Without an inverter or is it a DVI output? including a touch-screen option.
Re: [ql-users] Trump Cards and FORMAT
On Fri, 10 Dec 2004, Tony Firshman wrote: I wonder what the demand for a replacement SGC is? I can't see that it would cost much more to do a complete replacement QL board than just a SGC3. 2.5 HD, 60MHz QL in the original case, anyone? I can't see that it would cost more to do something MUCH faster for a little extra cost, with lots of extra facilities... Dave, blabbering. ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Trump Cards and FORMAT
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Tony Firshman [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes SNIP Roy found this out the hard way having bought a large batch. Fortunately I only programmed a few (they are OTP) and he got a refund. Actually you couldn't program them at all and I had the supplier program the lot which all failed to work. It took a long while and a big battle with the supplier but they finally admitted that they could not say this was the same chip even though the numbers had changed. -- Roy Wood Q Branch. 20 Locks Hill, Portslade, Sussex.BN41 2LB Tel: +44 (0) 1273 386030fax: +44 (0) 1273 430501 web : www.qbranch.demon.co.uk ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Trump Cards and FORMAT
Fri, 10 Dec 2004 22:00:39 +,() Tony Firshman [EMAIL PROTECTED] /wrote: Indeed, and QL Toady. *ribbit* ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Trump Cards and FORMAT
Nasta wrote: Someone said that there is a source of the GLUE20 logic floating around, I would certainly like to see it!!! As I mentioned last week, Keith gave me a copy at a semi-recent workshop (Hove, probably) which I can send if required... John ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Trump Cards and FORMAT or other OS's
Fri, 10 Dec 2004 10:51:35 -,() jms1 [EMAIL PROTECTED] /wrote: That is not true... I have Windows XP-64bit here courtesy of the Uni... Take into account that newspapers can supply DVDs of recent films free. The more I learn about the application of copyright the more I have sympathy with those who use pirate copies. Actually it is absolutely legal :-) Microsoft has agreements with most universities to provide their software for free to students... as they are making future slaves for their products ;-) I have fallen into my usual trap of grouping all open source Unix types OS's as Linux. I see I had better consider using BSD. Which is practically the only one deserving to be called UNIX apart from the actual SCO Unix The only reason I use Windows 1.For the software I use which is not available elsewhere. 2.Machines I have bought have it installed. Finally the gains must exceed the pains. The only way to attract others to the QL, QDOS and its derivatives is to ensure that the gains exceed the pains for first time users! And that is what we were doing in Q-Word... (back to topic) ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Trump Cards and FORMAT
On Thu, 9 Dec 2004 at 20:29:31, Phoebus Dokos wrote: (ref: [EMAIL PROTECTED]) Thu, 9 Dec 2004 12:39:52 -,() jms1 [EMAIL PROTECTED] /wrote: Yes and Linux will use a 64 bit operating system, XP cannot. That is not true... I have Windows XP-64bit here courtesy of the Uni... Net conclusion Linux far superior to Microsoft Operating Systems. I wouldn't claim that... I would claim BSD far superior to Windows.. Linux still is problematic in some aspects... As for which OS is more rocksolid, the best evidence is at URL:http:/ /uptime.netcraft.com/up/today/top.avg.html See which webservers around the world have the best uptime :-) (Top 50 comprises of BSD, BSD, BSD, BSD, FreeBSD, FreeBSD, BSD, BSD etc... ) we're not talking little boys toys here :-) Even at 64bits Windows is still full of leaks, Linux is not as bad but it's still growing... Phoebus And of course I did this :-) -- OS, Web Server and Hosting History for firshman.co.uk http://firshman.co.uk was running Apache on Linux when last queried at 10-Dec-2004 01:28:47 GMT - refresh now FAQ OS Server Last changedIP address Netblock Owner Linux Apache/1.3.31 (Debian GNU/Linux) PHP/4.3.4 10-Dec-2004 81.2.98.66 DMZ netblock We have no uptime data for firshman.co.uk at present, and cannot plot a graph. The host firshman.co.uk has been added to the list of sites that we may monitor. We will start monitoring firshman.co.uk in the next daily monitoring cycle. We will continue to monitor this host for a few days, to get enough values to plot a graph. After this time the host will not be monitored again unless it's requested again, or it is one of the most frequently requested hosts. He he. I guess this means my system will crash tomorrow for the first time since 2003 (8-)# Interested to see the results. All my WN systems here (including the 2 ADSL routers, switches, Linux internet server, 2 Sky+ boxes and 6 windows PCs) are UPS supported. (and yes Roy, the UPSs do work (8-)# ) Tony -- QBBS (QL fido BBS 2:252/67) +44(0)1442-828255 tony@surname.co.uk http://www.firshman.co.uk Voice: +44(0)1442-828254 Fax: +44(0)1442-828255 TF Services, 29 Longfield Road, TRING, Herts, HP23 4DG ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Trump Cards and FORMAT
At 06:36 10/12/2004 +0100, you wrote: Wolfgang Shouldn't we change the topic header here? Surely should, they are too often wildly inappropriate ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: Re: [ql-users] Trump Cards and FORMAT
On 10/12/04 at 10:46 Phoebus Dokos wrote: [Qubide driver changes] Possibly, the initialization sequence could be simplified. All of this assumes that the Qubide source (latest version) is available, and AFAIK, it is Yes it is :-) The latest QubIDE v.2.02 is already incorporated in QDOS Classic btw :-) Great, so we do have someone who knows how to poke around the source. In essence, the only truly important thing to do is change the IO addresses to a fixed value for GC/SGC systems. It uses a small area in the QL's IO block, which to the best of my knowledge doesn't interfere with anything. Also, the initial copying of the ROM to RAM is handled slightly differently, there is more space available and once the ROM is copied from it's initial address that switches off the ROM slot, it restores the ROM slot and whatever is in it should then be initialized as usual (the procedure is outlined in both the extended UM and the technical guide). The major part is more radical. It is high time that hard drive partitions and formats be unified on QL platforms... does not directly conform to the norm. It should be possible (indeed, it should not be much work) to convert the SMSQ/E win drivers for Qx0 to run on Qubide hardware. The problem here is the lack of utilities. Absolutely true... and when the QubIDE software is run on a Q40 or Q60 thanks to the wonderful work of Derek Stewart, many of the problems experienced with the regular QubIDE software (ie Not a QubIDE partition message appearing out of nowhere) are now gone. Same would be true for the new Qubide. Signal integrity is well taken care of. However in all truth, there is a GREAT SMSQ/e partition tools only it doesn't run under SMSQ/e... it runs under Linux (atari-fdisk) and it's worth to boot a ram-based linux only for atari-fdisk :-) Actually, if the driver was extended to support direct sector access (ah, shades of metadevices again!), porting that or even using modified Qubide tools would be possible. It strikes me as quite strange that no-one has done this yet for the Qx0... Still more radical, it should be possible to support both types of partitions as well, but that requires a lot of work on the driver(s). I am not sure if it feasible without major changes in the QubIDE software Not necessairly - internally, QubIDE partitions are stand alone just like Atari style ones - they could fairly easily be made conformant with the FAT16 style partition table, there are very few places in the Qubide driver where this is accessed (notably win_use, either explicit or implicit at initialization time). From there on, two drivers could exist, win and something else (qub?), with win_use and qub_use commands. The usual win_use parameters would apply to both, but each driver would only link in a partition if it was the required type (QLWA or QLW0 respectively). Even so, we really need to unify the format at some point... [Ethernet] The hardware here is almost trivial, but the software isn't, unless one limits oneself to a modified NET driver that can run on Ethernet hardware. For that it is most likely that Peter's work on QlwIP will be almost trivial to adapt to a new EtherIDE (AFAIK Peter's hardware driver is for the Realtek chipset which is IIRC what you were going to use too) Actually, I use the SMSC LAN91C96 which is similar but also different from the Realtek. The Realtek has turned out to be a dead end - they only have PCI versions now and they are not compatible with the ISA based one used on the Qx0. Also, this assumes that Peter would be willing to do the work, which I am not sure he would (and I hope I get to be proven wrong). SMSQ/E licencing issues are likely to rear their head again but this could be circumvented by supplying the module separately, though it should REALLY be a part of both OSs. 3. SGC-type expansion... a plug in and go Miracle-style expansion, or a much more radical path... Actually, it is likely that both will be made available. When is the keyword here :-D I'm looking at 10 68SZ328 chips right in front of me at the moment, SDRAM and Flash are scheduled to arrive in a few weeks. PCB design is still to be started once a definitive spec is drawn... The video output can also be used as an interface to a TFT LCD, Without an inverter or is it a DVI output? It's a raw digital output to connect directly to a TFT panel, and I do have a supplier for same plus inverters... in the USA... but I haven't as yet been able to find a nice small 640x480 color TFT with touch screen... As such, this digital output can be used to connect a DVI transmitter chip as well, so that option is also covered. GF design introduces dual processors (I have been going on about this for years now and lo and behold this is the next step the mainstream is taking, admittedly with dual core CPUs instead of dual CPUs... ...Lots of OS and driver work that should prove essential in the future... Stop it you make
Re: [ql-users] Trump Cards and FORMAT
At 18:54 10/12/2004 +, you wrote: I wonder what the demand for a replacement SGC is? The results of an enhanced survey would give a clue to the potential. ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Trump Cards and FORMAT
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Tony Firshman [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes I wonder what the demand for a replacement SGC is? Until recently the demand for SGCs was high but I have had a couple for a while now and no one seems to want one. A SGC with a fast chip and more RAM would sell though. -- Roy Wood Q Branch. 20 Locks Hill, Portslade, Sussex.BN41 2LB Tel: +44 (0) 1273 386030fax: +44 (0) 1273 430501 web : www.qbranch.demon.co.uk ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Trump Cards and FORMAT or other OS's
A lot of useful information has come out of this thread - Original Message - From: Roy wood [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 8:46 PM Subject: Re: [ql-users] Trump Cards and FORMAT See original I have no axe to grind here either. Personally I don't care either way but I see a lot of systems and talk to a lot of people in the business (most of our clients are business not end users, gamers and overclockers) and I can only report what I have found. I have wasted far to much time and bandwidth on this silly discussion. I must finish my article for QL Today or you won't get it for Christmas. -- Roy Wood Q Branch. 20 Locks Hill, Portslade, Sussex.BN41 2LB Tel: +44 (0) 1273 386030fax: +44 (0) 1273 430501 web : www.qbranch.demon.co.uk In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], jms1 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes Yes and Linux will use a 64 bit operating system, XP cannot. Net conclusion Linux far superior to Microsoft Operating Systems. Now I never said anything different. The system itself may be superior but it just does not have the applications yet. It is getting there. Roy Wood Q Branch. 20 Locks Hill, Portslade, Sussex.BN41 2LB Tel: +44 (0) 1273 386030fax: +44 (0) 1273 430501 web : www.qbranch.demon.co.uk Obviously experience in how to avoid problems counts more than anything else, no matter what hardware, OS, programming language, or application you use. Mike MacNamara Hmm.. Funny, John, this rig is running, Windows XP 64 bit Edition - can't see Linux machines in rear view morror. Mike Phoebus Dkus ??? Thu, 9 Dec 2004 12:39:52 -,?(?) jms1 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ??/wrote: Yes and Linux will use a 64 bit operating system, XP cannot. That is not true... I have Windows XP-64bit here courtesy of the Uni... Take into account that newspapers can supply DVDs of recent films free. The more I learn about the application of copyright the more I have sympathy with those who use pirate copies. Net conclusion Linux far superior to Microsoft Operating Systems. I wouldn't claim that... I would claim BSD far superior to Windows.. Linux still is problematic in some aspects... As for which OS is more rocksolid, the best evidence is at URL:http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/today/top.avg.html I have fallen into my usual trap of grouping all open source Unix types OS's as Linux. I see I had better consider using BSD. Wolfgang Lenerz An OS is just a platform for launching applications. The more apps, the better the OS. In that respect, Windows can't be beaten. Unfortunately... The only reason I use Windows 1.For the software I use which is not available elsewhere. 2.Machines I have bought have it installed. Finally the gains must exceed the pains. The only way to attract others to the QL, QDOS and its derivatives is to ensure that the gains exceed the pains for first time users! ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Trump Cards and FORMAT
On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 at 16:41:03, Phoebus Dokos wrote: (ref: [EMAIL PROTECTED]) Fri, 10 Dec 2004 21:30:56 +,() Tony Firshman [EMAIL PROTECTED] /wrote: On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 at 19:59:39, Roy wood wrote: (ref: [EMAIL PROTECTED]) for Sturat. Which is probably similar to Pheobus ;-) Indeed, and QL Toady. Tony -- QBBS (QL fido BBS 2:252/67) +44(0)1442-828255 tony@surname.co.uk http://www.firshman.co.uk Voice: +44(0)1442-828254 Fax: +44(0)1442-828255 TF Services, 29 Longfield Road, TRING, Herts, HP23 4DG ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Trump Cards and FORMAT
On Thu, 9 Dec 2004 at 01:54:07, P Witte wrote: (ref: [EMAIL PROTECTED]) snip There is one piece of topical information I should add, as a matter of interest, and in no way intended as an accusation. The machine hasnt displayed any of the mentioned symptoms when just idling on its own, only when fiddling with the Haupauge (TV card) drivers does it crash - or when running QPC2 (v 3.11 to 3.23)! Just QPC2, no toolkits or anything loaded. After on average 7 minutes of that - BOOM! Ahha. I will have a chat with Ben. I assume this is the Nexus Terrestrial digital card? Ben's Media Centre edition had crashing problems with this card until he found a work around. ... and yes, it is fun messing around with live TV and all that isn't it! Plays havoc though with timekeeping. A bit like internet radio. It lags further and further behind all on its own! Tony -- QBBS (QL fido BBS 2:252/67) +44(0)1442-828255 tony@surname.co.uk http://www.firshman.co.uk Voice: +44(0)1442-828254 Fax: +44(0)1442-828255 TF Services, 29 Longfield Road, TRING, Herts, HP23 4DG ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Trump Cards and FORMAT
Wed, 8 Dec 2004 20:31:40 -0600 (CST),() Dave P [EMAIL PROTECTED] /wrote: On Thu, 9 Dec 2004, Roy wood wrote: 1. Fact : more AMD systems fail than Intel ones Disputed. We no longer use P4s at our dedicated server facility because of their interesting failures. We do have occasional failures with XPs but only one so far with an Opteron box. About 2/3rds of the boxes currently there are AMD-based. The most reliable boxes we have are the K6-2's which just keep on running forever. I woul agree with that assessment... Since I started installing AMDs with the exception of the very early K5s, AMDs have been consistently more trustworthy (and usually faster) for a smaller investment every single time. I have installed and sold a vast number of machines and problematic Intel-based machines outnumbered AMDs by a rate of at least 5:1. As Dave pointed out many factors contribute to that than just the cpu itself but as a general rule AMDs are generally more heat resistant than the Intel ones... Most of the failures I have seen are due to inadequate cooling in either manufacturer but where liquid cooling (or peltier elements) have been applied I have seen virtually zero AMD defects compared to a general defect ration Phoebus ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Trump Cards and FORMAT
- Original Message - From: Wolfgang Lenerz [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 6:43 AM Subject: Re: [ql-users] Trump Cards and FORMAT On 9 Dec 2004 at 1:54, P Witte wrote: (...) underpowered and overpriced Sempron (whod put something with a name like that in their computer?!)) The same onces that use a Celery (...) (...) There is one piece of topical information I should add, as a matter of interest, and in no way intended as an accusation. The machine hasnt displayed any of the mentioned symptoms when just idling on its own, only when fiddling with the Haupauge (TV card) drivers does it crash - or when running QPC2 (v 3.11 to 3.23)! Just QPC2, no toolkits or anything loaded. After on average 7 minutes of that - BOOM! With power management switched on or off? Do you have a demanding game or demo you could leave on? This smacks of overheating. Wolfgang I would agree, there are a couple of users in Sweden who had stability/compatability/overheat problems with these cards last month Nice setup Per, should zing along. Mike ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Trump Cards and FORMAT
Wolfgang Lenerz writes: underpowered and overpriced Sempron (whod put something with a name like that in their computer?!)) The same onces that use a Celery ;-) (...) (...) There is one piece of topical information I should add, as a matter of interest, and in no way intended as an accusation. The machine hasnt displayed any of the mentioned symptoms when just idling on its own, only when fiddling with the Haupauge (TV card) drivers does it crash - or when running QPC2 (v 3.11 to 3.23)! Just QPC2, no toolkits or anything loaded. After on average 7 minutes of that - BOOM! With power management switched on or off? Off Do you have a demanding game or demo you could leave on? Only Freecell ;) This smacks of overheating. Looking into it. Per ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Trump Cards and FORMAT
Mike MacNamara writes: I would agree, there are a couple of users in Sweden who had stability/compatability/overheat problems with these cards last month Nice setup Per, should zing along. Fingers crossed, it will ;) And not expensive either, unless one prices in the mental anguish component. Per ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Trump Cards and FORMAT
Tony Firshman writes: I assume this is the Nexus Terrestrial digital card? Haupauge PVR Ben's Media Centre edition had crashing problems with this card until he found a work around. ... and yes, it is fun messing around with live TV and all that isn't it! Plays havoc though with timekeeping. A bit like internet radio. It lags further and further behind all on its own! Life should have a pause button! Nasta? Per ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Trump Cards and FORMAT
At 05:02 09/12/2004 -0500, you wrote: Most of the failures I have seen are due to inadequate cooling in either manufacturer but where liquid cooling (or peltier elements) have been applied I have seen virtually zero AMD defects compared to a general defect ration I have been interested in the Peltier option, but how well does it really work with all the extra watts going in ? ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Trump Cards and FORMAT
Thu, 09 Dec 2004 17:04:50 +,() David Tubbs [EMAIL PROTECTED] /wrote: At 05:02 09/12/2004 -0500, you wrote: Most of the failures I have seen are due to inadequate cooling in either manufacturer but where liquid cooling (or peltier elements) have been applied I have seen virtually zero AMD defects compared to a general defect ration And of course once more I made the mistake of writing ratio as ration :-) I have been interested in the Peltier option, but how well does it really work with all the extra watts going in ? The trick is to power it from the outside :-) (Yeah I know it's extreme) There is another MUCHO COOL solution with an external radiator (looks really neat as it is a bluish aluminium cone) that needs no power whatsoever... thermodynamics takes care of coolant circulation... the name of that last one escapes me at the mo Phoebus ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Trump Cards and FORMAT
On Thu, 9 Dec 2004 at 12:35:23, P Witte wrote: (ref: [EMAIL PROTECTED]) Tony Firshman writes: I assume this is the Nexus Terrestrial digital card? Haupauge PVR Ah probably not that then, as I use two of these without hassle. I see - you use a settop box. The Nexus card will take direct aerial input. Tony -- QBBS (QL fido BBS 2:252/67) +44(0)1442-828255 tony@surname.co.uk http://www.firshman.co.uk Voice: +44(0)1442-828254 Fax: +44(0)1442-828255 TF Services, 29 Longfield Road, TRING, Herts, HP23 4DG ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Trump Cards and FORMAT
On Thu, 9 Dec 2004 at 12:15:16, Phoebus Dokos wrote: (ref: [EMAIL PROTECTED]) Thu, 09 Dec 2004 17:04:50 +,() David Tubbs [EMAIL PROTECTED] /wrote: At 05:02 09/12/2004 -0500, you wrote: Most of the failures I have seen are due to inadequate cooling in either manufacturer but where liquid cooling (or peltier elements) have been applied I have seen virtually zero AMD defects compared to a general defect ration And of course once more I made the mistake of writing ratio as ration :-) I have been interested in the Peltier option, but how well does it really work with all the extra watts going in ? The trick is to power it from the outside :-) (Yeah I know it's extreme) There is another MUCHO COOL solution with an external radiator (looks really neat as it is a bluish aluminium cone) that needs no power whatsoever... thermodynamics takes care of coolant circulation... the name of that last one escapes me at the mo Ben has his eyes on a water cooler! Tony -- QBBS (QL fido BBS 2:252/67) +44(0)1442-828255 tony@surname.co.uk http://www.firshman.co.uk Voice: +44(0)1442-828254 Fax: +44(0)1442-828255 TF Services, 29 Longfield Road, TRING, Herts, HP23 4DG ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Trump Cards and FORMAT
There is another MUCHO COOL solution with an external radiator (looks really neat as it is a bluish aluminium cone) that needs no power whatsoever... thermodynamics takes care of coolant circulation... the name of that last one escapes me at the mo Ben has his eyes on a water cooler! Maybe then I should send him one from here :-) Phoebus ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Trump Cards and FORMAT
Tony Firshman writes: I assume this is the Nexus Terrestrial digital card? Haupauge PVR Ah probably not that then, as I use two of these without hassle. I see - you use a settop box. Sorry to disappoint yet again: No I dont, just a plain aerial ;) The Nexus card will take direct aerial input. Per ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Trump Cards and FORMAT
On 09/12/04 at 12:35 P Witte wrote: Life should have a pause button! Nasta? And during the pause, I need to get a passable facsimily of me made to handle day to day affairs, while I concentrate on things I really like doing, like designing hardware for the QL ;-) On 09/12/04 at 08:04 Phoebus Dokos wrote: Well I would love to know as well - all I do know is that Super Gold Cards are soon snapped up as soon as people know that they are available. Even at 80 plus pounds a piece (which shows how badly a new standard expansion card is needed (Nasta?) Or at least more SGCs... Why do you think I posted the lengthy messages about ColdFire vs 68k? At this point designing a new standard card requires a rather major decision involving a problem quite similar to what was being discussed in the original thread, namely, leaving some of the past IN the past. Even the GoldFire design (even though, in it's last iteration, it did not have much to do with ColdFire CPUs) was intended to run QMSQ/E exclusively, or at least as the first option. Of course, no one would be stopped from porting QDOS classic on it or indeed anything they saw fit - which is why the documentation was freely available. It can still be made with the original pair of 68060s (one required, one optional). The performance would be slightly faster than Q60 as it utilizes faster RAM, and this is certainly quite powerful in QL terms. Redesigning for CF V4e would push the performance up by a factor of 4, ASSUMING the differences in architecture are suitably handled - and note that at this point, 'suitably' is signifficantly complicated by the nead to provide near 100% compatibility. All of this means that the OS developers Marcel mentioned in his astute email (in fact, I don't remember Marcel ever NOT being astute and to the point in any email), would certainly get space to develop. But even if they do and all the extra nice hardware features are supported, nothing will happen if applications actually don't use them. Now, there are two ways about this: Either I design what i think I should, even breaking compatibility in places where it's the sensible thing to do, and ignore the rants of the sticklers-to-the-old, inviting the formation of yet another rift in the shrinking community. A sort of this is the medicine, take it or leave it approach. Lots of time and money involved, and most certainly not only for me. I could get back into 68k programming with months needed to tackle the SMSQ/E sources so I can actually do rudimentary support for all the newfangled bits - which in practical terms means it probably would never see the light of day - or I can ask for help (and I have), and write good specs and documentation for developers to follow. At one pont, the can't make omlet without breaking eggs addage becomes all to apparent... Or: I attempt to get the 'feel' of what people in the community want (as oposed to what they need) and in effect this is, all told, a net zero vector - so I just pack it in regarding any even slightly radical developement, or even all developement altogether. At this moment, I could solely concentrate on a few simple things i could do - an Ethernet board, a simplified Qubide II of sorts - things that I know I can do because they require comparatively less investment (parts available, 2-layer PCBs, etc). Sales would be very limited, but so would the investment. Alas, even these assume at least GC if not SGC. So, what should I do? N. PS - in a recent mail someone said that most users that do not want to upgrade to SMSQ/E don't want it because theyt would have to use the PE. To my knowledge SMSQ/E does not come with a built in bomb that explodes if one does not use thge PE part of SMSQ/E, I just don't see what part of it would MAKE them use it? Oh, and I have no doubt that quite a lot of the same lot use Windows on a daily basis am I the only one who sees this as ironic? ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Trump Cards and FORMAT
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Mike MacNamara [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes SNIP - and other replies) Oh Dear Roy! I have in excess of 15 PCs running 24/7 ranging from Duron 1800s through Athlons, and several AMD64 bit machines, this is an MSI K8T Neo2 939 pin AMD64 3500+ Winchester 90nm, carrying 4 SATA HDDs = 400GB.etc, etc. All these machines run 24/7 CPU useage is 100%, folding for medical research., the MAC G4 has been replaced recently - packed in. The Intel machines are history burnt out, and could not take it long ago. - all on local refuse tip. The last P4 here lasted less than a year, AMD are far better, faster, more stable. And with SATA drives and 64 bit chips, the only way to go. IMHO, no axe to grind.- I do a lot of tech help to users worldwide with MSI and other machines. The top rigs and performance are all AMD64s. I will reply to this and the previous ones in one go. Most of my distaste for AMD is post K6-2 although they had their failings. You may have fifteen AMD PCs but we sell around 25 CPUs a week. We used to sell AMDs but stopped because of the very high return rate This was, admittedly at the start of the Athlon period when they were very sensitive to cooling and had zero protection from overheating. Flash, gone and the motherboard with it. Even the second generation of Athlons which had heat sensors built in had to use the motherboards to sense it and they were often to fast enough to catch a drastic failure. In the five years I have worked for this company we sold AMD chips for about six months. In that period I returned too many to count. Then we stopped. In the whole five years I have returned four Intel processors. Two of those had bent pins (by the users) so only two in several hundred failed. We also sell a lot of replacement power supplies (around fifty a week). Our policy, if someone calls to order one is to ask them to test it with another PSU to see if the system has survived the PSU failure. A significant number of the AMD system have died whereas only one or two of the Intel ones had. Can't give exact figures here. We also talk a lot to other companies building and supplying systems on various levels many of those have also given up using AMD for the same reasons. AMD chips have a 1 year warranty. On the supplier level it costs us to ship each defective AMD CPU back to the distributor and then we have to wait for it to be checked before a replacement or refund is issued. Intel, on the other hand, offer a three year warranty. They give us a freephone number to call for any defective product and they immediately ship a replacement (usually there next day) to us. The replacement comes with packaging and return label. Since we got to 2Ghz CPU speed has begun to matter less and less and the biggest bottlenecks have been hard drive access, graphics and the user. I agree that AMD chip do outperform Intel chips in the speed market although the 64 bit CPU has had precious little software written to take advantage of it yet and may not have unless Intel do decide to go down that route. One final point here is that one of our biggest customers has bought several dual Xeon servers from us. Their tech team is on the case and very knowledgeable. They recently bought a high end Tyan motherboard and Dual Opteron system from us (Opterons are the only AMD CPUs we will stock) They did this partly because they do perform very well in tests and partly because each Opteron function as a dual processors and gives that performance but are still seen by the system as a single processor. Oracle charge a licence fee per CPU so this is a cheaper option (believe me an Oracle licence is not a cheap item). They moved one of their older systems from a Xeon onto this new platform and have had all sorts of errors and problems. Not big ones just niggly little one which the Intel CPUs did not give. Maybe it is the speed they run at I don't know but they are still trying to tie it down and will not buy another Opteron system until they have I have no axe to grind here either. Personally I don't care either way but I see a lot of systems and talk to a lot of people in the business (most of our clients are business not end users, gamers and overclockers) and I can only report what I have found. I have wasted far to much time and bandwidth on this silly discussion. I must finish my article for QL Today or you won't get it for Christmas. -- Roy Wood Q Branch. 20 Locks Hill, Portslade, Sussex.BN41 2LB Tel: +44 (0) 1273 386030fax: +44 (0) 1273 430501 web : www.qbranch.demon.co.uk ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Trump Cards and FORMAT
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], jms1 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes Yes and Linux will use a 64 bit operating system, XP cannot. Net conclusion Linux far superior to Microsoft Operating Systems. Now I never said anything different. The system itself may be superior but it just does not have the applications yet. It is getting there. Take our own situation. SMSQ/E is a far better O/S than any other we have had but you still have to convince people to use it. I personally do not care if it is 8 bit or 1024-bit so long as it does what I want it to. I spend too long talking to geeks to ever want to be one. You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make it drink. You can tell a human being the truth but you cannot make it believe! Most truth is subject because experience is subjective. Most belief systems are founded on misconceptions and self delusion -- Roy Wood Q Branch. 20 Locks Hill, Portslade, Sussex.BN41 2LB Tel: +44 (0) 1273 386030fax: +44 (0) 1273 430501 web : www.qbranch.demon.co.uk ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Trump Cards and FORMAT
Hi Per The amps are what matter, there is a table on PSU label, it gives amps values, best with at least 18 -20 on the +12v for your CPU, make sure its a good make, some PSU are useless, give ratings that are peaks and not sustainable. If it fades out after a few mins, that sounds like a heat prob, is heatsink tight to CPU, and enough paste, but not to much, about a grain and a half or rice size of paste is required, if you are using Artic Silver or metal pastes, be very careful. AMD warranties are void with metal pastes. Some, yours included, have metal nodes on top which will short with metal paste. The AMD64 bit chips do not have these nodes. Is your CPU fan OK?, connected to the Cfan connector. Other thing is you may have a bent CPU pin. Although, a short on mobo, flakey PSU, or a flakey Dimm slot are prime suspects, try RAM in another slot, just use 1 stick, If RAM is incompatible with CPU and board, ie Registered, ECC, Dual channel or something, when board wants Non ECC, unregistered, single channel, can cause this. I have seen boards post first time and appear fine, but on reboot, the RAM settings are altered and it won't post . The normal cure then is to remove ALL cards and MEM, reset CMOS, allow to discharge. Then use a differant Ram stick to force a reset of stored values. Your not using a USB Keyboard and mouse are you.? Which Mobo is it? Good luck Mike . - Original Message - From: P Witte [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 11:46 AM Subject: Re: [ql-users] Trump Cards and FORMAT Mike MacNamara writes: The latest CPUs need a lot of amps on the +12v lines, the AMD64s need at least 18 amps barebones just to post. but 30amps will run them OK. Its a XP3200+ and the hardware monitor shows (showed) that the 12V voltage supply is 12V+. Wouldnt that imply that there were sufficient amps? The other day I soak tested it for some 12 hours and thought all was hunky-dori. Next day I switched on again and it died after a few minutes. Hasnt booted since then. Same behaviour as just before I changed motherboard, CPU, RAM and PSU! Ive tested with two different, relatively new HDDs, both of which have been extensively tested on another machine and found to be ok. Per ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Trump Cards and FORMAT
On 8.12.2004 at 1:09 Mike MacNamara wrote: The latest CPUs need a lot of amps on the +12v lines, the AMD64s need at least 18 amps barebones just to post. but 30amps will run them OK. OK, let me sort this one out so that we can go back to QL things: Actually, that may not have anything to do with it. The motherboard components do not use 12V directly, and in some cases not at all. What this is about is the core voltage supply for the CPU. Even though this is a low 1.5 - 1.75V in most modern CPUs, the current needed is quite astounding - 50 to 60 Amps is not uncommon. In oreder to get this sort of power supply to a CPU from an external power supply, one would need wires and connectors with a cross section abut the same as those connecting a car battery to the starter - i.e. some 10mm in diameter - completely impractical. This is why the required voltage is supplied from an on-board converter. It is left to the board designer to decide wether this converter runs off the 5V line or the 12V line. Depending on that decision, running a fast CPU on a given motherboard may require the power supply to provide extra Amps on the 5V or 12V line. If your motherboard uses an ATX2 additional 12V power connector (kind of like a shorter, almost square version of the usual large ATX power connector, with only 4 wires, two black and two yellow), your power supply needs more current capacity on the 12V line. If not, then on the 5V line. It may be worth noting that the on-board converter(s) operate like true transformers - Volts out times Amps out (=power output) equals Volts in times Amps in (=power input), minus conversion loss (10-15%). What this means is that using 12V to power the converter requires less amps than using 5V. This is the reasoning behind the small extra ATX2 connector (also known as the P4 connector) - connector contacts also have current limits. Unfortunately, driving the converter off 12V also has other consequences, but this is truly well outside the scope of this message. As a rule of thumb, for the purposes of supplying power to the CPU, every 1 Amp on the 12V line counts as 2.4A on the 5V line. All of this assumes that no other components are signifficant loads on these lines - in reality, they are not large loads, but may just be what trips the current limit in the power supply. Also, AGP graphics can be a demanding load on the 3.3V line... OK, now that you know everything about choosing the PCs power supply, we can go back to QL thematics ;-) Nasta ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Trump Cards and FORMAT
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], P Witte [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes Mike MacNamara writes: The latest CPUs need a lot of amps on the +12v lines, the AMD64s need at least 18 amps barebones just to post. but 30amps will run them OK. Its a XP3200+ and the hardware monitor shows (showed) that the 12V voltage supply is 12V+. Wouldnt that imply that there were sufficient amps? The other day I soak tested it for some 12 hours and thought all was hunky-dori. Next day I switched on again and it died after a few minutes. Hasnt booted since then. Same behaviour as just before I changed motherboard, CPU, RAM and PSU! Ive tested with two different, relatively new HDDs, both of which have been extensively tested on another machine and found to be ok. To be honest here - having tried many AMD chips from socket 7 up to Opterons I suspect the problem is that it is an AMD. The Intel chips may not have that 'wow look I can overclock it and turn the central heating off in winter' go faster stripe but they are so much more stable. -- Roy Wood Q Branch. 20 Locks Hill, Portslade, Sussex.BN41 2LB Tel: +44 (0) 1273 386030fax: +44 (0) 1273 430501 web : www.qbranch.demon.co.uk ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Trump Cards and FORMAT
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Tony Firshman [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes I have a 100% stable Linux system running using a AMD Athlon. It hasn't given the slightest trouble in the 18 months it has been running (24hrs a day). It is UPS supported, and has only been down once when I replaced the UPS! It runs my ADSL and website, and is pretty intensively used by worldnews.com. It also saves image thumbnails every minute. In fact my Linux systems have always been crash free (other than the time a HD died!). I had a dual boot system (Linux and Windows) in the past. Linux was rock solid, and W98 crashed endlessly! I guess we can all quote our own specific problems, but other than the HD crash above mentioned, _all_ my system problems (and I mean all) since the year dot have been soft - probably W98 (and 98SE). Since using XP, W2000 and W2000 server, I have not seen one hardware problem and very very few software problems. The trouble is that single users see single problems. I have to deal with many users so I see many problems. 1. Fact : more AMD systems fail than Intel ones 2. Fact : when they do fail in a hardware way throw the CPU away it is usually dead. 3. Fact : Even the Opterons are unstable when pushed. Linux places less overheads on a system than Windoze so will be stable on a less than efficient platform. I have seen LINUX running perfectly happily on a skt 370 chip that XP will not install onto. This is more to do with LINUX than with the underlying chip architecture. -- Roy Wood Q Branch. 20 Locks Hill, Portslade, Sussex.BN41 2LB Tel: +44 (0) 1273 386030fax: +44 (0) 1273 430501 web : www.qbranch.demon.co.uk ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Trump Cards and FORMAT
On Thu, 9 Dec 2004, Roy wood wrote: 1. Fact : more AMD systems fail than Intel ones Disputed. We no longer use P4s at our dedicated server facility because of their interesting failures. We do have occasional failures with XPs but only one so far with an Opteron box. About 2/3rds of the boxes currently there are AMD-based. The most reliable boxes we have are the K6-2's which just keep on running forever. It seems your experience is your experience. I suspect you see a lot of home-built machines were people applied the HSF with inappropriate pressure, or used a poor quality motherboard (there are a lot of cheap ass boards in the AMD world) but that is hardly down to AMD. AMD resolved the HSF issue by re-introducing the head streader, since the majority of failures were caused my chipped dies (ie mishandling) Dave ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Trump Cards and FORMAT
On 9 Dec 2004 at 1:54, P Witte wrote: (...) underpowered and overpriced Sempron (whod put something with a name like that in their computer?!)) The same onces that use a Celery (...) (...) There is one piece of topical information I should add, as a matter of interest, and in no way intended as an accusation. The machine hasnt displayed any of the mentioned symptoms when just idling on its own, only when fiddling with the Haupauge (TV card) drivers does it crash - or when running QPC2 (v 3.11 to 3.23)! Just QPC2, no toolkits or anything loaded. After on average 7 minutes of that - BOOM! With power management switched on or off? Do you have a demanding game or demo you could leave on? This smacks of overheating. Wolfgang ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
[ql-users] Trump Cards and FORMAT
A few people remember the command to make a fast image of microdrives which appears in Trump Card, Gold Card and Super Gold Card - FORMAT ram1_mdv1 This is an extremely useful command as it soon tells you how many bad sectors are on a microdrive. However, I have a Trump Card here with v2.12 TK2 and the Level 2 drivers. Oddly enough FORMAT ram1_mdv1 does work to test a cartridge, BUT if you look at the files which are created in ram1_, they are corrupted (for example, a simple boot program actually stores the directory for the microdrive). The microdrive is not corrupt - tried the command on another Trump Card and it works fine. So, does anyone know if the trump card might be faulty - maybe a memory chip (although every other command seems to work fine as does running programs). The other option might be a problem with the level 2 drivers as implemented on the chip. Does anyone have a trump card with these installed to try it out? I don't want to throw out the level 2 driver chip, so if there is a working version, perhaps Tony would be so kind as to blow me a new chip?? Can't you tell I'm having a couple of days of problems -- Rich Mellor RWAP Services 26 Oak Road, Shelfield, Walsall, West Midlands WS4 1RQ http://www.rwapservices.co.uk/ ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Trump Cards and FORMAT
Can't you tell I'm having a couple of days of problems After my couple of weeks of fun with XP, who's next for a few fun days??? Dilwyn Jones ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Trump Cards and FORMAT
On Tue, 7 Dec 2004, P Witte wrote: My four weeks of recent fun would be too of-topic to print here, but to summarise briefly, I have a PC that is playing up. Weve changed every single component except the case and still the same sort of problem persists! Now its down to the case or - me! The case and the OS, I bet. Does it fun under Linux too? Also, do you consider the PSU to be part of the case? If so, is the PSU unclean? Dave ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Trump Cards and FORMAT
Tue, 7 Dec 2004 18:05:11 -,() P Witte [EMAIL PROTECTED] /wrote: Dilwyn Jones writes: Can't you tell I'm having a couple of days of problems After my couple of weeks of fun with XP, who's next for a few fun days??? My four weeks of recent fun would be too of-topic to print here, but to summarise briefly, I have a PC that is playing up. Weve changed every single component except the case and still the same sort of problem persists! Now its down to the case or - me! Per As the old motto from my PC assembling days went... if everything else fails, look at the PSU Phoebus ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Trump Cards and FORMAT
Hmmm... Leprosy, very common among the high end processors, what CPU is it? cheers mike - Original Message - From: Dave P [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 6:08 PM Subject: Re: [ql-users] Trump Cards and FORMAT On Tue, 7 Dec 2004, P Witte wrote: My four weeks of recent fun would be too of-topic to print here, but to summarise briefly, I have a PC that is playing up. Weve changed every single component except the case and still the same sort of problem persists! Now its down to the case or - me! The case and the OS, I bet. Does it fun under Linux too? Also, do you consider the PSU to be part of the case? If so, is the PSU unclean? Dave ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Trump Cards and FORMAT
Dave P writes: My four weeks of recent fun would be too of-topic to print here, but to summarise briefly, I have a PC that is playing up. Weve changed every single component except the case and still the same sort of problem persists! Now its down to the case or - me! Probably all down to the colour of that jinxed case - an unwholesome green! My purple machine on the other hand, is the sweetest computer Ive ever had, re-fitted only a few months earlier: Strong, silent and troublefree, like the perfect wife, in a purple burka. The case and the OS, I bet. Does it fun under Linux too? Also, do you consider the PSU to be part of the case? If so, is the PSU unclean? The PSU is new, and it crashes (intermittently, but inexorably) down to the metal both with Unmentionable 2000 and Unmentionable 98SE. I now believe the only possible answer (apart from an offended case) is that there are, or were, three or more separate problems, one or more of which was introduced by any one of the new components. It should never have got to this; I should have paid better attention, but its always tempting to stop looking for more trouble when one is convinced that the problem has been found. However, as many have discovered before, and others have yet to discover: It is possible to be convinced - and still be wrong! I am now bracing myself to begin, systematically, all over again, and within a short while, QPC should be humming merrily away as my fastest QL yet! Wish me luck! Per ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Trump Cards and FORMAT
Mike MacNamara writes: Hmmm... Leprosy, very common among the high end processors, what CPU is it? I think Dave was talking about the PSU ;) Anyway the CPU is an Athlon 3200+. Its fussy about the quality of memory. Memtest kept bombing out, so I thought: Problem solved! and got some Kingston RAM. Memtest works fine now. Booted up ok into a clean W98SE installation (no apps, no nothing) - BOOM! Now I cant even boot anymore :( Reset CMOS? Virus?! Knackered HDD? I hate being a mechanic, I only want to fly! Per ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
