Re: Tower of Babel problem

1999-06-17 Thread Anonymous

> From:  Paul Schinder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date:  Thu, 17 Jun 1999 11:35:47 -0400
>
> On Thu, Jun 17, 1999 at 11:24:36AM -0400, Alex Miller wrote:
> } But I'm really surprised that I haven't encountered this problem before? Are
> } Chris and Mark the only folks out there using PGP? I subscribe to a lot of
> } mailing lists, which get shunted off to various folders, so I recieve mai
> } from literally thousands of users.
> 
> There are a couple of different ways that e-mail gets PGP signed.
> PGP-MIME seems to be the more uncommon way, at least in the e-mail I
> get.  The usual way is to simply include the PGP signature in text at
> the bottom of the message with some simple non-MIME delimiters around
> the message (on this list Sam, if I remember right, signs his e-mail
> in this way).  Some software, like mutt, only does PGP-MIME signing.
> Eudora can do it either way.

Basically, the plain text approach isn't a standard, it's more of a 
convention.  It's the most compatible, but it doesn't allow you to sign 
multipart or otherwise typed email messages.  What usually happens if you have 
an attachment is that the plain text is signed, but the attachment isn't.  If 
you think about it, that's kinda silly since the attachment is probably more 
critical than the text which says something like "here's the file I promised 
you."

The PGP-MIME approach is a standard (I don't recall which RFC off hand), but 
it's not widely deployed yet.  As a rule, most clients that don't support 
PGP-MIME see the signature as an attachment, so I frequently get email from 
people with older versions of Eudora asking me what that attachment was that I 
sent them.  (They usually tell me they tried to open it as well...I assume 
these are the same people who pass email viruses around.)

Chris

-- 
Chris Garrigues virCIO
+1 512 432 4046 4314 Avenue CO-
http://www.DeepEddy.Com/~cwg/   Austin, TX  78751-3709
+1 512 374 0500

  My email address is an experiment in SPAM elimination.  For an
  explanation of what we're doing, see http://www.DeepEddy.Com/tms.html 

Nobody ever got fired for buying Microsoft,
  but they could get fired for relying on Microsoft.



 PGP signature


Re: Tower of Babel problem

1999-06-17 Thread Anonymous


> On Thu, Jun 17, 1999 at 10:57:50AM -0400, Alex Miller wrote:
> } It looks like there is a bug in MS Outlook, where it is having trouble
> } displaying emails with certain header information.

I have no problem with Outlook Express. Is it just big-boy Outlook that
fails?


___
This message has been checked for all viruses, including ExploreZip
by the Star Screening System
http://academy.star.co.uk/public/virustats.htm



Re: Tower of Babel problem

1999-06-17 Thread Anonymous

On Thu, Jun 17, 1999 at 11:24:36AM -0400, Alex Miller wrote:
} Yes, the problem seems to be in the pane viewing. So, if using PGP-mime is a
} standard that is well-recognized and MS Outlook doesn't handle it properly,
} then it is an MS Outlook bug.
} 
} But I'm really surprised that I haven't encountered this problem before? Are
} Chris and Mark the only folks out there using PGP? I subscribe to a lot of
} mailing lists, which get shunted off to various folders, so I recieve mail
} from literally thousands of users.

There are a couple of different ways that e-mail gets PGP signed.
PGP-MIME seems to be the more uncommon way, at least in the e-mail I
get.  The usual way is to simply include the PGP signature in text at
the bottom of the message with some simple non-MIME delimiters around
the message (on this list Sam, if I remember right, signs his e-mail
in this way).  Some software, like mutt, only does PGP-MIME signing.
Eudora can do it either way.

If you receive PGP-MIME mail using (Mac) Eudora, you get a little icon
instead of the message.  You need to double click on the icon for
Eudora to check the signature and display the message (and then you
have to remember to drag the attachment to the Trash if you don't want
it lying around).  The older format PGP signed mail simply displays,
and you need to go to extra trouble only if you want to verify the
signature.

} 
} I haven't encountered the problem before so if it is strictly a MS Outlook
} inability to understand PGP-mime properly I would expect to see the problem
} in some significant percentage of emails I recieve, say 10%.
} 
} But this is a very small percentage, I find it hard to believe that
} something as famous as PGP would be so underrepresented in all these mailing
} lists.
} 
} Alex Miller

-- 

Paul J. Schinder
NASA Goddard Space Flight Center
[EMAIL PROTECTED]



RE: Tower of Babel problem

1999-06-17 Thread Anonymous

Yes, the problem seems to be in the pane viewing. So, if using PGP-mime is a
standard that is well-recognized and MS Outlook doesn't handle it properly,
then it is an MS Outlook bug.

But I'm really surprised that I haven't encountered this problem before? Are
Chris and Mark the only folks out there using PGP? I subscribe to a lot of
mailing lists, which get shunted off to various folders, so I recieve mail
from literally thousands of users.

I haven't encountered the problem before so if it is strictly a MS Outlook
inability to understand PGP-mime properly I would expect to see the problem
in some significant percentage of emails I recieve, say 10%.

But this is a very small percentage, I find it hard to believe that
something as famous as PGP would be so underrepresented in all these mailing
lists.

Alex Miller

> -Original Message-
> From: Paul J. Schinder [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, June 17, 1999 11:05 AM
> To: Alex Miller
> Cc: List-QMAIL
> Subject: Re: Tower of Babel problem
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 17, 1999 at 10:57:50AM -0400, Alex Miller wrote:
> } It looks like there is a bug in MS Outlook, where it is having trouble
> } displaying emails with certain header information. True enough,
> Microsoft is
> } evil incarnate but it does read 99.99% of email fairly well. I
> checked and
> } the Netscape client on my LINUX box reads the same emails just fine.
> }
> } The emails Outlook is having trouble with have all been sent to
> this list.
> } All of the emails sent from Chris Garrigues and one email from
> Mark Drummond
> } (the one titled Re: qmail + Maildir + Procmail) have this problem.
> }
> } My concern is that if there is something slightly dialectical
> about Chris's
> } and Mark's QMAIL setup, MS Outlook recipients will have trouble
> with those
> } emails.
> }
> } Since I am setting up QMail as part of a not-for-profit ISP service that
> } provides internet services to participating not-for-profits, I would not
> } want my email system to send out email which is a dialect of
> normal email
> } which MS Outlook (and potentially other evil clients) can't handle.
> }
> } I think it's worth looking into what is different about these
> emails and how
> } qmail is causing that difference.
>
> To hazard a guess, if I remember their messages in mutt this morning
> and yesterday it's because both of them use PGP-MIME.  Microsoft
> simply doesn't do standards very well.  You can't ask them not to use
> PGP-MIME just because Microsoft crapware can't handle it.
>
> }
> } Alex Miller
> }
>
> --
> 
> Paul J. Schinder
> NASA Goddard Space Flight Center
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>



Re: Tower of Babel problem

1999-06-17 Thread Anonymous

>It looks like there is a bug in MS Outlook, where it is having trouble
>displaying emails with certain header information. True enough, Microsoft is
>evil incarnate but it does read 99.99% of email fairly well. I checked and
>the Netscape client on my LINUX box reads the same emails just fine.
>
>The emails Outlook is having trouble with have all been sent to this list.
>All of the emails sent from Chris Garrigues and one email from Mark Drummond
>(the one titled Re: qmail + Maildir + Procmail) have this problem.

If it's any help: the emails you referred to seem to have been 
pgp-signed - I'm using a beta of Eudora 4.2 on a mac and have 
installed the latest Freeware international PGP (6.02i), but, and I 
suspect this is important, I've not configured PGP at all (no keyring 
or anything). What I get is an attachment with a PGP icon - 
double-clicking it gets me

"The PGP plugin could not find your keyring files. Please set up your 
keyring files using PGPtools."


Hope that helps



John
Who's obviously going to have to set up his keyring...


-- 
John O'Shea 
 Wordbank Ltd, 9 Orange St, London WC2H 7EA
 T:+44 171 766 7200   F:+44 171 766 7222



Re: Tower of Babel problem

1999-06-17 Thread Anonymous

On Thu, Jun 17, 1999 at 10:57:50AM -0400, Alex Miller wrote:
} It looks like there is a bug in MS Outlook, where it is having trouble
} displaying emails with certain header information. True enough, Microsoft is
} evil incarnate but it does read 99.99% of email fairly well. I checked and
} the Netscape client on my LINUX box reads the same emails just fine.
} 
} The emails Outlook is having trouble with have all been sent to this list.
} All of the emails sent from Chris Garrigues and one email from Mark Drummond
} (the one titled Re: qmail + Maildir + Procmail) have this problem.
} 
} My concern is that if there is something slightly dialectical about Chris's
} and Mark's QMAIL setup, MS Outlook recipients will have trouble with those
} emails.
} 
} Since I am setting up QMail as part of a not-for-profit ISP service that
} provides internet services to participating not-for-profits, I would not
} want my email system to send out email which is a dialect of normal email
} which MS Outlook (and potentially other evil clients) can't handle.
} 
} I think it's worth looking into what is different about these emails and how
} qmail is causing that difference.

To hazard a guess, if I remember their messages in mutt this morning
and yesterday it's because both of them use PGP-MIME.  Microsoft
simply doesn't do standards very well.  You can't ask them not to use
PGP-MIME just because Microsoft crapware can't handle it.

} 
} Alex Miller
} 

-- 

Paul J. Schinder
NASA Goddard Space Flight Center
[EMAIL PROTECTED]