Re: Announcing qmail-autoresponder version 0.93

2000-08-07 Thread Brian Johnson

On Sat, Aug 05, 2000 at 05:45:24PM +0200, wolfgang zeikat wrote:
 the subject sure is good to have in the response,
 but i think of people who spend some time typing their mail,
 mistype the address, send without keeping a copy ...
 and have to retype it all in order to resend (remember? :)
 
 the included copy would allow them to just copy/paste from the autoreply
 ..
 
 and since qmail-autoresponder has the -c option to include a copy of the
 original message that size restriction came to my mind ... so you wouldnt
 send them their entire holiday.jpg or whatever back but just the original
 text message which (i think) hardly ever is bigger than 50 K.
---end quoted text---

yes, but then there's also the problem of when someone sends a message with an 
attachment on it, then they get the bounce that has what looks like the whole message 
and attachment on it, then they just forward the bounce message including the partial 
attachment on to whoever was really supposed to recieve the message.
one thought is to put the whole message in the bounce to local users, and then filter 
the message through a program that will remove any attachments from it for bounces to 
remote users?
-- 
Brian Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
---
Some people have told me they don't think a fat penguin really embodies 
the grace of Linux, which just tells me they have never seen a angry 
penguin charging at them in excess of 100mph. They'd be a lot more careful 
about what they say if they had.  -- Linus Torvalds



Re: Announcing qmail-autoresponder version 0.93

2000-08-07 Thread Bruce Guenter

On Sat, Aug 05, 2000 at 04:46:12PM +0200, wolfgang zeikat wrote:
 i use qmail-autoresponder in .qmail-default to send a message back to
 senders who send to invalid users on our server.
 now i would like to know a few things:
 - is it possible to include only like the first 50 KB of the original
 message? so that for example bigger attachments would simply get truncated
 to that size?

I'll add that feature.

 - is it possible to exclude local users from the message limit of 1 per
 hour?

Exclude them meaning they wouldn't get any responses, or they would not
be rate limited?  What would this accomplish?
-- 
Bruce Guenter [EMAIL PROTECTED]   http://em.ca/~bruceg/

 PGP signature


Re: Announcing qmail-autoresponder version 0.93

2000-08-07 Thread wolfgang zeikat

  Also sprach Bruce Guenter [EMAIL PROTECTED] on 07.08.2000:

   - is it possible to include only like the first 50 KB of the
  original
   message?
  I'll add that feature.
great (i achieved by using the head command)
   - is it possible to exclude local users from the message limit of
  1 per
   hour?

  Exclude them meaning they wouldn't get any responses, or they would
  not
  be rate limited?  What would this accomplish?

a new co-worker mistyped 5 local email addresses in an hour ... with a
limit of 1 per hour he wouldnt have gotten a message back.

wolfgang




Re: Announcing qmail-autoresponder version 0.93

2000-08-07 Thread Olivier M.

On Mon, Aug 07, 2000 at 09:45:47PM +0200, wolfgang zeikat wrote:
   Also sprach Bruce Guenter [EMAIL PROTECTED] on 07.08.2000:
   
- is it possible to include only like the first 50 KB of the
   original
message?
   I'll add that feature.
 great (i achieved by using the head command)  

and what about attachments ? head could cut one in the middle...

 a new co-worker mistyped 5 local email addresses in an hour ... with a
 limit of 1 per hour he wouldnt have gotten a message back.

translating the qmail-error messages would really be the best solution
IMHO, but well, TAMDWTDI :)

Olivier
-- 
_
 Olivier Mueller - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - PGPkeyID: 0E84D2EA - Switzerland




Re: Announcing qmail-autoresponder version 0.93

2000-08-07 Thread wolfgang zeikat

Also sprach Olivier M. [EMAIL PROTECTED] on 07.08.2000:
i achieved by using the head command)  

and what about attachments ? head could cut one in the middle...
it does cut them off, thus my autoreply says:

--- Below this line is a copy of the message.
(Note that this copy has been truncated to 50 KB.)

by the way, please dont send me private copies of your mails to this list
;)
thanks

wolfgang




Re: Announcing qmail-autoresponder version 0.93

2000-08-07 Thread Bruce Guenter

On Mon, Aug 07, 2000 at 09:45:47PM +0200, wolfgang zeikat wrote:
 a new co-worker mistyped 5 local email addresses in an hour ... with a
 limit of 1 per hour he wouldnt have gotten a message back.

So limit it to 5 per hour.  Or educate your employees.
-- 
Bruce Guenter [EMAIL PROTECTED]   http://em.ca/~bruceg/

 PGP signature


Re: Announcing qmail-autoresponder version 0.93

2000-08-05 Thread wolfgang zeikat

i use qmail-autoresponder in .qmail-default to send a message back to
senders who send to invalid users on our server.
now i would like to know a few things:
- is it possible to include only like the first 50 KB of the original
message? so that for example bigger attachments would simply get truncated
to that size?

- is it possible to exclude local users from the message limit of 1 per
hour?

wolfgang




Re: Announcing qmail-autoresponder version 0.93

2000-08-05 Thread Olivier M.

On Sat, Aug 05, 2000 at 04:46:12PM +0200, wolfgang zeikat wrote:
 i use qmail-autoresponder in .qmail-default to send a message back to
 senders who send to invalid users on our server.

hey, nice idea :) looks better than the standard qmail error message...

 now i would like to know a few things:
 - is it possible to include only like the first 50 KB of the original
 message? so that for example bigger attachments would simply get truncated
 to that size?
Isn't the subject (%S) enough ? Parsing the attachment wouldn't probably
a very easy thing (well, ezmlm can do it, but it's _bigger_ than qmail-autoresponder).

 - is it possible to exclude local users from the message limit of 1 per
 hour?
by including a test in your .qmail-default file, probably yes.
if (localuser)
qmail-autoresponder -n ...
else
qmail-autoresponder -n 1

(to be converted to shell script...)

Olivier
-- 
_
 Olivier Mueller - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - PGPkeyID: 0E84D2EA - Switzerland




Re: Announcing qmail-autoresponder version 0.93

2000-08-05 Thread wolfgang zeikat

  Also sprach Olivier M. [EMAIL PROTECTED] on 05.08.2000:
  Isn't the subject (%S) enough ?

the subject sure is good to have in the response,
but i think of people who spend some time typing their mail,
mistype the address, send without keeping a copy ...
and have to retype it all in order to resend (remember? :)

the included copy would allow them to just copy/paste from the autoreply
..

and since qmail-autoresponder has the -c option to include a copy of the
original message that size restriction came to my mind ... so you wouldnt
send them their entire holiday.jpg or whatever back but just the original
text message which (i think) hardly ever is bigger than 50 K.

wolfgang




Re: Announcing qmail-autoresponder version 0.93

2000-08-05 Thread David Dyer-Bennet

Olivier M. [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes on 5 August 2000 at 17:20:52 +0200
  On Sat, Aug 05, 2000 at 04:46:12PM +0200, wolfgang zeikat wrote:
   i use qmail-autoresponder in .qmail-default to send a message back to
   senders who send to invalid users on our server.
  
  hey, nice idea :) looks better than the standard qmail error message...

Okay, but be careful here; a qmail bounce can be recognized as a
bounce, and thus automatically resent, etc. by the tools I use for
mail-reading (emacs VM).  If you make up your own bounce format, you
may well end up taking away a lot of the sender's tools for handling
your bounce.  So if you want to do your own bounce with your own
message, *please* take the trouble to do it in a common enough bounce
format that most tools that handle bounces will be able to figure it
out. 

Truncating the message causes related problems.  If I accidentally
mistype an address, and send some stuff, and it bounces, I can often
recognize the typo in the address and resend it very easily (M-r, edit
address, send).  If you've truncated the message, I lose this
ability.  I may even have lost the original files that were attached
by the time I see the bounce.  Furthermore, I may not realize that
you've truncated the body, if it goes past the first few screens
intact. 

I do see not wanting to bounce 10 meg files; but how often does it
happen, really?  
-- 
Photos: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ Minicon: http://www.mnstf.org/minicon
Bookworms: http://ouroboros.demesne.com/ SF: http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b 
David Dyer-Bennet / Welcome to the future! / [EMAIL PROTECTED]



Re: Announcing qmail-autoresponder version 0.93

2000-08-05 Thread wolfgang zeikat

  Also sprach David Dyer-Bennet [EMAIL PROTECTED] on 05.08.2000:
  So if you want to do your own bounce with your own
  message, *please* take the trouble to do it in a common enough
  bounce format that most tools that handle bounces will be able to
figure it
  out. 

what would be such a format?
"Returned Mail: User unknown" in the subject? or a MAILER-DAEMON
Return-Path? 
i hadnt thought about bounce handling tools yet, but rather about our
mostly german users here who tend to ignore automated bounces as "some
english error message i dont understand or dont care to understand" anyway.
  
  I may even have lost the original files that were attached
  by the time I see the bounce.

i see that point
  
  Furthermore, I may not realize that
  you've truncated the body, if it goes past the first few screens
  intact. 
good point, this could be indicated in the bounce tho.
  
  I do see not wanting to bounce 10 meg files; but how often does it
  happen, really?  

not very often. i had it happen with 90 meg tho, so i got careful here.

wolfgang




Re: Announcing qmail-autoresponder version 0.93

2000-08-05 Thread David Dyer-Bennet

wolfgang zeikat [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes on 5 August 2000 at 18:52:41 +0200
Also sprach David Dyer-Bennet [EMAIL PROTECTED] on 05.08.2000:
So if you want to do your own bounce with your own
message, *please* take the trouble to do it in a common enough
bounce format that most tools that handle bounces will be able to
  figure it
out. 
  
  what would be such a format?
  "Returned Mail: User unknown" in the subject? or a MAILER-DAEMON
  Return-Path? 
  i hadnt thought about bounce handling tools yet, but rather about our
  mostly german users here who tend to ignore automated bounces as "some
  english error message i dont understand or dont care to understand" anyway.

Unfortunately I can't point you at a reliable recipe for "what works".
This is at least partly because the official standard (latest) format
is rarely used or supported, and everything else is ad-hoc.  The qmail
format is documented, and I think there's room to add additional text
in another language without breaking it, so that might be a relatively
easy way to proceed.  Or take advice from somebody more knowledgable
then me, there me be some good compendiums about "what works"
somewhere.

The qmail format is called QSBMF, and is documented at
http://cr.yp.to/proto/qsbmf.txt .  This file may also go along with
the qmail distribution.

I do see not wanting to bounce 10 meg files; but how often does it
happen, really?  
  
  not very often. i had it happen with 90 meg tho, so i got careful here.

Is this that smaller / more expensive European bandwidth thing?  A 90
meg bounce going out of here would tie up some of the outgoing
bandwidth for a few hours (or less, if end-to-end throughput was
higher), but I doubt I'd even notice the slowdown; the things I notice
use up *incoming* rather than *outgoing* bandwidth.  And this is the
connectivity to the basement of my home, not a commercial location. 

I'd actually be inclined to set an *incoming* limit on what I was
willing to handle, and then be willing to bounce the whole thing if
necessary. 
-- 
Photos: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ Minicon: http://www.mnstf.org/minicon
Bookworms: http://ouroboros.demesne.com/ SF: http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b 
David Dyer-Bennet / Welcome to the future! / [EMAIL PROTECTED]



Re: Announcing qmail-autoresponder version 0.93

2000-08-05 Thread wolfgang zeikat

well, i have decided to truncate the bounced message,
and i simply added
|head -c 50k  /var/tmp/no-mailbox.txt
to that .qmail-default, where /var/tmp/no-mailbox.txt is a temporary file
that qmail-autoresponder finally uses for the message to the sender.

wolfgang