Re: [qubes-users] Relation between increasing RAM and the increased need for display memory
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 On 11/11/2017 04:22 PM, @LeeteqXV (Twitter & Mastodon.technology) wrote: > Ref. "(maybe if you using Compiz with fancy desktop effects) " > > For me, the desktop environment affects my well-being and mood > very much, so yes some of such "effects" are important, both for > efficiency and for the general good feeling when working etc.,, not > the fancy part. > > I prefer to have 12+ viewports/workspaces, each with its own name > and background image, so I can associate specific > tasks/applications to each one, plus with a wrap-around function to > navigate beyond the borders. I use Compiz for this on Ubuntu, and > fortunately all of the above is possible in Qubes without any extra > tools. > > Compiz provides customized window transparency so that when I > write, I arrange for good (text++) contrast towards the nice > background image on each desktop, on a per-window basis. I use > Alt+[numeric"+"] and Alt-[numeric"-"] keyboard shortcuts to > increase/decrease the transparency on the active window. (Not sure > if this is possible in Qubes out-of-the-box?) > > With this as the background (all done outside of the VMs), along > with the initially mentioned points about increasing use of > one-app-vms, are you saying that we can basically just keep upping > the RAM without worrying about the potential need for increased > display memory? I used those effects as well. So yes, I would still say you do not have to worry about your video RAM. > I would like to know what are the minimum requirements for the > graphics card in this respect, for "both ends of the spectre", so > to speak; My experience is that you can't have any Qubes compatible hardware that is not enough for any kind of fancy compiz effects. Mainly because the VGA is integrated into the CPU package (most of the systems nowadays). You may have to increase the default assigned video RAM in BIOS, but that's all. > a) ~16GB RAM, which is getting increasingly possible with > sub-€1000 laptops (just for the perspective on the limits). b) > >32GB RAM, for the high-end computers. > > Will it be possible to use a (compatible) laptop in the sub-€1000 > range as long as it has enough RAM, or should one also verify that > the display card meet some kind of minimum specifications (for the > scenario where we are going to run a LOT of VMs, only limited by > the available RAM)? See my note above. > + How is this different with Qubes 4.x compared to 3.2? Nothing changed about VGA. - -- Zrubi -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2 iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJaCF1jAAoJEBozWgtUjzdkIkYQAMQqUpqMo2SgApIgni5Gvj44 M5dOvhWYVIgOGw+SyG9VwuAxvPAfeJKvSrv1U4W9JayM6IwsRtWE37xD51PGERPD Z+Ge1HMZnU5v+qR3yDKLo7qgIjAzj/12r3waWUuf89KdMGFOhOKTWEE9SS20Tpv0 GfaLwTJHZkNU1RBfroui0maoUXA9mp4LB/Pix9ueIa3ygtXlhcA98nJd7zTYTJ1Z VhVj1vBoR0Qwdh5EutMCknXSEnV3H8HojNT168BdqkQcIfxOaG2IWJiYBDZ3fjgg V9DfbRrHUbH8C/zBm9K45cRTKZFglvvL6zFJC3o8ktLTVfJsQTO/eEAapUAj3H1l 7YlDuCw7eHWlX0gdMMvgu9jWKtWNVWGxXucuqVBk+kso/T8svNYb2YQraWr93Ovq 8n057Eb76KumDHTMrFZ0hr1neZPzBVUf7FHzODBt7qMGF0FpukjzsX6Q8sN6DVmw MLAIW+UOJ859VHXzblfbPDvvTBcZDaZlwvhOWdd109Lqb+dcqbuTqJEAnN1nLibV 1YSGrcKfCdiBZqxSFhFKDt3727ddr3+56a1N+ZZBtAgfh3nPqdzGi5tJocEl/hoc m57BN+H4evHtoq0XPiDhSm9HQj+j65Bd8w8ep6j4NFMKF3xxxgHAMQA7SThXBr88 5TPYItMNE4R2OYjw7oBq =h9IP -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "qubes-users" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to qubes-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to qubes-users@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/qubes-users/f871941b-dc09-7393-bc13-cb0de47306e1%40zrubi.hu. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [qubes-users] Relation between increasing RAM and the increased need for display memory
On 28/09/17 12:32, Zrubi wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 On 09/21/2017 08:47 PM, Teqleez wrote: Hi all. I assume this is relevant not only for considerations related to the practical limit/benefit of increasing RAM in existing computers, but also regarding the specifications when buying new computers. - At the following amounts of RAM; 8GB -> 16GB -> 24GB -> 32GB -> 48GB -> 64GB, how much does the requirements for the graphics card memory increase with each step, if we assume the normal/daily/"permanent" usage to be 70-80% of the available RAM? This obviously depends on how many different VM's one has open, and how much video memory each one needs, but can we make an assumption on some sort of average number for this, to see if it is possible to find some kind of rule-of-thumb figures? For example, if we assume a "normal"(?!?) Qubes-OS user whose sole reason for increasing memory is in fact to be able to run more Qubes simultaneously; how many more Qubes can he/she expect to be running per extra 8gb of RAM, and how much more will each such step "typically" require of the graphics card memory, if we assume a "linear" growth in the number of concurrently open Qubes? I am guessing that with the capacity to run (increasingly) many Qubes, the amount of applications running in each one will be lower, to the point where we most often choose to run "one-app-qubes". For the sake of this example we could also assume that this example user is a "lazy" person who will not bother configuring minimal templates, but only use the default shipped fedora-24(++) template for each one, just for the sake of simplicity and playing around with these numbers a bit. IMHO there is no real connection between RAM used by the OS and apps, a and the RAM ins your VGA. (VRAM) VRAM is used for: - - game (3D) data rendering, which is out of scope in case of Qubes (maybe if you using Compiz with fancy desktop effects) - - display rendering. The later is still need more and more VRAM because of the bigger and bigger common resolutions Like: 800x600 -> 1024x768 -> 1920x1080 -> 2560x1080 -> 4K -> 8K -> etc. So you still need more and more VRAM to render all your pixels in your screens. These can be multiplied if you start using multi-monitor setups . But these needs are not growing as fast as your conventional RAM needs. I'm using 3xHD screens, and the 512Mb VRAM used by the integrated VGA is still enough for that, while my OS has 16Gb RAM. - -- Zrubi -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2 iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJZzM+6AAoJEBozWgtUjzdkzbUQAMuN8HsuXf5YeKERJ8pubew9 5bzQIbv7bffzF0O7w4VndyxF28jE49KLjBkFf6siInOgL4SbG2SQVPP/lyHZG2kq 9rlCu0294ICHU7ASDOfnuQx+6IPJZdUGTXb2tt0r3OlY418Gdj/cHNIT5Ul1j/DW nGpvKUNQzVzmV0Bl43KlKD4ZwBh1+Xz5AgfI21E2GGKiwpMMKWEGy6ZYmSoe7Opu 0LC/MHWABnQtNwNcGsXyZ6K0BhakuT3va32x4aQC7d2e60iJjvxHaLP+WEFEVSDd LpbEPQVWA1+LJ4eOC5xmT0LkKCxeBezU2zOk+ZCP0jVcgwS7VecMQchuKUViNBEe Lgx3BBSb39ZXZb89zwK6y+3nDb81Ewuq95d2i3PnCU72SJi9Z4Uhu5m2xVVYNNf8 eHk+dChrGp7QZ51bHNl4sdDsVGiWC6c7/Vf7LAeL5WBQi6hgeASvoTBWEOsHSgPj PjTHXw0R3IXrLyfzajLmc51UMh9zn67pstI5y/6KjX89Bv9h38kXg5DnIxNDbxjD FX0MJAECd2e4y3NOIclPVa8dY1m5nMgo4H4GbPXvF2mXsi1kY/CzTY/zT7/R0HaM ufXupUY+Hnlv/v+QRlTob+d38H7eLeHf5wqmgIxSrQnsDSqc5HeprMjzQOCNvnaB dW9yigS7udjNfVDjVbi1 =fVJ+ -END PGP SIGNATURE- Ref. "(maybe if you using Compiz with fancy desktop effects) " For me, the desktop environment affects my well-being and mood very much, so yes some of such "effects" are important, both for efficiency and for the general good feeling when working etc.,, not the fancy part. I prefer to have 12+ viewports/workspaces, each with its own name and background image, so I can associate specific tasks/applications to each one, plus with a wrap-around function to navigate beyond the borders. I use Compiz for this on Ubuntu, and fortunately all of the above is possible in Qubes without any extra tools. Compiz provides customized window transparency so that when I write, I arrange for good (text++) contrast towards the nice background image on each desktop, on a per-window basis. I use Alt+[numeric"+"] and Alt-[numeric"-"] keyboard shortcuts to increase/decrease the transparency on the active window. (Not sure if this is possible in Qubes out-of-the-box?) With this as the background (all done outside of the VMs), along with the initially mentioned points about increasing use of one-app-vms, are you saying that we can basically just keep upping the RAM without worrying about the potential need for increased display memory? I would like to know what are the minimum requirements for the graphics card in this respect, for "both ends of the spectre", so to speak; a) ~16GB RAM, which is getting increasingly possible with sub-€1000 laptops (just for the perspective on the limits). b) >32GB RAM, for the high-end computers. Will it be possible to use a (compatible) laptop in the sub-€1000 range as long as it has enough RAM, or should
Re: [qubes-users] Relation between increasing RAM and the increased need for display memory
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 On 09/21/2017 08:47 PM, Teqleez wrote: > Hi all. > > I assume this is relevant not only for considerations related to > the practical limit/benefit of increasing RAM in existing > computers, but also regarding the specifications when buying new > computers. > > - At the following amounts of RAM; 8GB -> 16GB -> 24GB -> 32GB -> > 48GB -> 64GB, how much does the requirements for the graphics card > memory increase with each step, if we assume the > normal/daily/"permanent" usage to be 70-80% of the available RAM? > > This obviously depends on how many different VM's one has open, and > how much video memory each one needs, but can we make an assumption > on some sort of average number for this, to see if it is possible > to find some kind of rule-of-thumb figures? > > For example, if we assume a "normal"(?!?) Qubes-OS user whose sole > reason for increasing memory is in fact to be able to run more > Qubes simultaneously; how many more Qubes can he/she expect to be > running per extra 8gb of RAM, and how much more will each such step > "typically" require of the graphics card memory, if we assume a > "linear" growth in the number of concurrently open Qubes? > > I am guessing that with the capacity to run (increasingly) many > Qubes, the amount of applications running in each one will be > lower, to the point where we most often choose to run > "one-app-qubes". For the sake of this example we could also assume > that this example user is a "lazy" person who will not bother > configuring minimal templates, but only use the default shipped > fedora-24(++) template for each one, just for the sake of > simplicity and playing around with these numbers a bit. > IMHO there is no real connection between RAM used by the OS and apps, a and the RAM ins your VGA. (VRAM) VRAM is used for: - - game (3D) data rendering, which is out of scope in case of Qubes (maybe if you using Compiz with fancy desktop effects) - - display rendering. The later is still need more and more VRAM because of the bigger and bigger common resolutions Like: 800x600 -> 1024x768 -> 1920x1080 -> 2560x1080 -> 4K -> 8K -> etc. So you still need more and more VRAM to render all your pixels in your screens. These can be multiplied if you start using multi-monitor setups . But these needs are not growing as fast as your conventional RAM needs. I'm using 3xHD screens, and the 512Mb VRAM used by the integrated VGA is still enough for that, while my OS has 16Gb RAM. - -- Zrubi -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2 iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJZzM+6AAoJEBozWgtUjzdkzbUQAMuN8HsuXf5YeKERJ8pubew9 5bzQIbv7bffzF0O7w4VndyxF28jE49KLjBkFf6siInOgL4SbG2SQVPP/lyHZG2kq 9rlCu0294ICHU7ASDOfnuQx+6IPJZdUGTXb2tt0r3OlY418Gdj/cHNIT5Ul1j/DW nGpvKUNQzVzmV0Bl43KlKD4ZwBh1+Xz5AgfI21E2GGKiwpMMKWEGy6ZYmSoe7Opu 0LC/MHWABnQtNwNcGsXyZ6K0BhakuT3va32x4aQC7d2e60iJjvxHaLP+WEFEVSDd LpbEPQVWA1+LJ4eOC5xmT0LkKCxeBezU2zOk+ZCP0jVcgwS7VecMQchuKUViNBEe Lgx3BBSb39ZXZb89zwK6y+3nDb81Ewuq95d2i3PnCU72SJi9Z4Uhu5m2xVVYNNf8 eHk+dChrGp7QZ51bHNl4sdDsVGiWC6c7/Vf7LAeL5WBQi6hgeASvoTBWEOsHSgPj PjTHXw0R3IXrLyfzajLmc51UMh9zn67pstI5y/6KjX89Bv9h38kXg5DnIxNDbxjD FX0MJAECd2e4y3NOIclPVa8dY1m5nMgo4H4GbPXvF2mXsi1kY/CzTY/zT7/R0HaM ufXupUY+Hnlv/v+QRlTob+d38H7eLeHf5wqmgIxSrQnsDSqc5HeprMjzQOCNvnaB dW9yigS7udjNfVDjVbi1 =fVJ+ -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "qubes-users" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to qubes-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to qubes-users@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/qubes-users/085fcd85-f38c-6522-69ae-cb4e57d070d5%40zrubi.hu. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[qubes-users] Relation between increasing RAM and the increased need for display memory
Hi all. I assume this is relevant not only for considerations related to the practical limit/benefit of increasing RAM in existing computers, but also regarding the specifications when buying new computers. - At the following amounts of RAM; 8GB -> 16GB -> 24GB -> 32GB -> 48GB -> 64GB, how much does the requirements for the graphics card memory increase with each step, if we assume the normal/daily/"permanent" usage to be 70-80% of the available RAM? This obviously depends on how many different VM's one has open, and how much video memory each one needs, but can we make an assumption on some sort of average number for this, to see if it is possible to find some kind of rule-of-thumb figures? For example, if we assume a "normal"(?!?) Qubes-OS user whose sole reason for increasing memory is in fact to be able to run more Qubes simultaneously; how many more Qubes can he/she expect to be running per extra 8gb of RAM, and how much more will each such step "typically" require of the graphics card memory, if we assume a "linear" growth in the number of concurrently open Qubes? I am guessing that with the capacity to run (increasingly) many Qubes, the amount of applications running in each one will be lower, to the point where we most often choose to run "one-app-qubes". For the sake of this example we could also assume that this example user is a "lazy" person who will not bother configuring minimal templates, but only use the default shipped fedora-24(++) template for each one, just for the sake of simplicity and playing around with these numbers a bit. Regards, @LeeteqXV -- Regards, https://mastodon.technology/@LeeteqXV/ https://twitter.com/@LeeteqXV/ https://Leeteq.com/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "qubes-users" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to qubes-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to qubes-users@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/qubes-users/CAOQTMawHO6YVAoXT1r_LDvxqHPn1h7t9g-UV6EjWnsCti%2BNd4Q%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.