Re: [EXT] [qubes-users] MS Office 365 in Qubes

2021-06-09 Thread Ulrich Windl

On 5/26/21 11:20 PM, William Oliver wrote:

On Wed, 2021-05-26 at 15:53 +0200, Ulrich Windl wrote:



Office 365 _without_ MS-Windows? Are you kidding? Maybe Microsoft
provides it for other platforms, but _why_ would one use the
Microsoft
product? (I'm using OpenOffice/LibreOffice for years, and it's OK for
me)



I use LibreOffice or Calligra for almost everything except...
  PowerPoint presentations that I have to give to someone else.  I
frequently speak at meetings where I have to provide a PPTX file of my
presentation weeks in advance, and I *have* to use whatever audiovisual
setup they have (often dictated by the venue).  I have found that
presentations made in LibreOffice format incorrectly in PowerPoint for
at least one slide over 80% of the time.  It gets worse when there are
videos and animations.


OK, just let me add some more thoughts:
I think both Microsoft Office and OpenOffice/Libre Office have some 
advantages _and_ deficits over the other.
I had been using Word for Windows (with Windows 3.11) shortly after it 
came out. At that time OpenOffice was still named StarOffice.
Around that time Microsoft wanted more than 500€ for a license, 
completely unaffordable for one who writes maybe 15 letters a year.


One day I had spend almost the whole day updating a larger document 
(still less than 100 pages). Before saving I thought I'll do hyphenation 
and spell-checking as final touch-up. Eventually, when I wanted to save, 
there was a message like "there's not enough memory to complete the task".
At that moment I was tempted to throw the whole computer out of the 
window...


With StarOffice/OpenOffice/LibreOffice I never had such a bad experience 
(also using it for at least 20 years now).


Also Microsoft often claims they'll protect your investment. Well, I 
have WinWord documents from 1993 that a current Word cannot read!
So I would need one (or more) older versions to load and re-save those 
files.


(Oh well, I also have files created with Ventura Publisher; the 
PostScript output at that time was considered to be too large to 
archive. If I had known what will happen, I would have saved those...)


Maybe for contrast: I also have a demo CD with Adobe Acrobat 1.0 (I 
think from 1994). Those PDF files can still be loaded and displayed 
correctly.




Normally, I create the presentation in LibreOffice and then take it to
a place that runs Windows at work and fix the presentation there.  I
retired from my normal job recently, so I can't do that any more, even
though I still do presentations.  At the moment, my church is letting
me use their computers for this, but I don't know that it will go on
forever.


I agree that Impress could be much more user-friendly.



billo



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Re: [EXT] [qubes-users] MS Office 365 in Qubes

2021-05-27 Thread Steve Coleman
On Wed, May 26, 2021, 5:21 PM William Oliver  wrote:

> On Wed, 2021-05-26 at 15:53 +0200, Ulrich Windl wrote:
> >
> >
> > Office 365 _without_ MS-Windows? Are you kidding? Maybe Microsoft
> > provides it for other platforms, but _why_ would one use the
> > Microsoft
> > product? (I'm using OpenOffice/LibreOffice for years, and it's OK for
> > me)
>
> Normally, I create the presentation in LibreOffice and then take it to
> a place that runs Windows at work and fix the presentation there.  I
> retired from my normal job recently, so I can't do that any more, even
> though I still do presentations.  At the moment, my church is letting
> me use their computers for this, but I don't know that it will go on
> forever.
>

It may not address your immediate needs but the "Microsoft Nonprofit"
program can provide 10 free Office365 licenses for 10 years to any
qualifying nonprofit organization. If you got your church to qualify then
maybe they will set you up with a license? MS also allows unlimited binary
installs (PC, iOS, Android, etc) for each individuals assigned license plus
some discounts on the Win10 OS you could use as an AppVM. There is also
TechSoup.org which provides discounted software and refurbished hardware to
qualifying nonprofits.

I am also battling with the Office365 products on Qubes. If you want to
have  discussion off line please do not hesitate to reach out to me. I know
about the MS NonProfit  program because I have my own startup 501(c)(3) (
hdri.org) for doing medical research on a long ignored disease that has no
test, no cure, no statistics collected because nobody ever gets diagnosed,
and so currently it will never be funded for any research in humans. Your
dog can be easily tested and cured but you would likely get kicked out of
the clinic or ignored for even suggesting you might have this very same
disease. It's being treated exactly the same as Lyme disease was back on
the 60's. Will they ever learn?

Sorry for the tangential off topic discussion.

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Re: [EXT] [qubes-users] MS Office 365 in Qubes

2021-05-26 Thread William Oliver
On Wed, 2021-05-26 at 15:53 +0200, Ulrich Windl wrote:
> 
> 
> Office 365 _without_ MS-Windows? Are you kidding? Maybe Microsoft 
> provides it for other platforms, but _why_ would one use the
> Microsoft 
> product? (I'm using OpenOffice/LibreOffice for years, and it's OK for
> me)


I use LibreOffice or Calligra for almost everything except...
 PowerPoint presentations that I have to give to someone else.  I
frequently speak at meetings where I have to provide a PPTX file of my
presentation weeks in advance, and I *have* to use whatever audiovisual
setup they have (often dictated by the venue).  I have found that
presentations made in LibreOffice format incorrectly in PowerPoint for
at least one slide over 80% of the time.  It gets worse when there are
videos and animations.

Normally, I create the presentation in LibreOffice and then take it to
a place that runs Windows at work and fix the presentation there.  I
retired from my normal job recently, so I can't do that any more, even
though I still do presentations.  At the moment, my church is letting
me use their computers for this, but I don't know that it will go on
forever.

billo

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Re: [EXT] [qubes-users] MS Office 365 in Qubes

2021-05-26 Thread Sven Semmler

On 5/26/21 11:01 AM, Ulrich Windl wrote:

most spammers want "to buy our products" ;-) Still we are not able to
use Office 365.


That one went straight over my head, possibly been away from Germany for
too long (15 years). Sorry for being a bit grumpy. Didn't sleep much
last night.

For others finding this thread later: of course in many cases
LibreOffice is the way to go. It's what I too use 95% of the time. If
you are just dealing with DOC(X)s, chances are you can do everything in
LibreOffice even when collaborating with M$ Office users.

Watching PPT(X) files works great too, but there will be minor format
errors. However, if you have to collaborate with M$ Office users working
on a PPT(X) for example, you will become very unpopular fast if you try
to pull that off using LibreOffice. The results just look too different.

Don't know about spreadsheets much, but I guess if you go all power user
on the formulas there might be surprises too.

Bottom-line: I get why someone might HAVE TO use Office just to not piss
off everyone else they are working with.

/Sven

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Re: [EXT] [qubes-users] MS Office 365 in Qubes

2021-05-26 Thread Ulrich Windl

On 5/26/21 4:24 PM, Sven Semmler wrote:

On 5/26/21 8:53 AM, Ulrich Windl wrote:

On 5/13/21 2:36 PM, 'taran1s' via qubes-users wrote:
due to my work assignment, I will need to use MS Office 365 and I 
would like to keep using my Qubes laptop.


IMHO running Office 365 from Qubes OS makes very little sense


The entire idea of Qubes OS is to compartmentalize your information, so
malicious code in one qube cannot damage the rest of your system.
Arguably it makes more sense to run Windows/O365 in Qubes OS then it
does bare metal.


At least Office 365 cannot affect the other VMs.




Will Office work without OneDrive?


Of course.

Does that work (e.g. copying text in a non-X11 application to paste it 
into some X11 application)?


Yes, in both cases: Windows qube with QWT or using Cross-Over (Win API 
emulated in X11)



Does Office/365 support Windows 7?


Yes it does. I have used it this way myself.


Wow, I'm impressed: As Microsoft continuously updates Office 365, they 
still support Windows 7 being an obsolete OS?




Ulrich, I found this particular post of yours remarkably uninformed and 
not constructive. It's not like the OP or myself advocate the use of 
O365, but there are circumstances where one HAS to use something in the 
context of earning money. Everyone outside of academia should be 
familiar with that situation.


Well, you are correct that I don't know enough about Office 365, but 
AFAIK the German BSI said you cannot use Office 365 for confidential 
data (that's what made me wonder about the combination of Office 365 and 
Qubes OS). Link like this: 
https://sharepoint360.de/bsi-analyse-deckt-neue-datenlecks-bei-der-office-telemetrie-auf-und-liefert-blockier-tipps/


On OneDrive: I never used Office 365, but when I tried to use OneNote, 
it said it will only work with OneDrive. And obviously: Microsoft wants 
you to use their cloud services.


Also don't conclude from my E-Mail address that I'm "in academica"; most 
spammers want "to buy our products" ;-) Still we are not able to use 
Office 365.  Well that might change in the future, but at least we had 
30 years without being attacked successfully...


Regards,
Ulrich

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Re: [EXT] [qubes-users] MS Office 365 in Qubes

2021-05-26 Thread Sven Semmler

On 5/26/21 8:53 AM, Ulrich Windl wrote:

On 5/13/21 2:36 PM, 'taran1s' via qubes-users wrote:
due to my work assignment, I will need to use MS Office 365 and I 
would like to keep using my Qubes laptop.


IMHO running Office 365 from Qubes OS makes very little sense


The entire idea of Qubes OS is to compartmentalize your information, so
malicious code in one qube cannot damage the rest of your system.
Arguably it makes more sense to run Windows/O365 in Qubes OS then it
does bare metal.


Will Office work without OneDrive?


Of course.

Does that work (e.g. copying text in a non-X11 application to paste 
it into some X11 application)?


Yes, in both cases: Windows qube with QWT or using Cross-Over (Win API 
emulated in X11)



Does Office/365 support Windows 7?


Yes it does. I have used it this way myself.

Ulrich, I found this particular post of yours remarkably uninformed and 
not constructive. It's not like the OP or myself advocate the use of 
O365, but there are circumstances where one HAS to use something in the 
context of earning money. Everyone outside of academia should be 
familiar with that situation.


/Sven

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Re: [EXT] [qubes-users] MS Office 365 in Qubes

2021-05-26 Thread Ulrich Windl

On 5/13/21 2:36 PM, 'taran1s' via qubes-users wrote:
I am using Qubes as my main OS and now it seems that due to my work 
assignment, I will need to use MS Office 365 and I would like to keep 
using my Qubes laptop.


IMHO running Office 365 from Qubes OS makes very little sense (as you 
publish all your data to Microsoft basically). It's abit like runniing 
TOR browser and then fill in some form with all your personal data.




I will need to use the MS Office 365 ideally with/without the following 
features:


- no need to have internet connection


Is that possible for a longer time?


- no need to have win apps other than the MS Office 365 are needed now


Will Office work without OneDrive?


- need to copy and paste text in between win-AppVMs and non-win-AppVMs


Does that work (e.g. copying text in a non-X11 application to paste it 
into some X11 application)?


- need to file sharing between win-AppVMs and non-win-AppVMs (copy and 
move)
- need to ideally be able to open the MS Office 365 files in various 
separate AppVMs, but it is not a killer and I can live without it if it 
complicates the situation too much.


My question is, if there is some workaround other than necessity to 
install whole Windows OS in my Qubes.


Office 365 _without_ MS-Windows? Are you kidding? Maybe Microsoft 
provides it for other platforms, but _why_ would one use the Microsoft 
product? (I'm using OpenOffice/LibreOffice for years, and it's OK for me)




If the Windows OS installation is a necessity in this case, would you 
consider the WIN7 or WIN10 as better, less troublesome option? Could you 
point me to a how to guide? There is this guide 


The question is: Does Office/365 support Windows 7? I doubt that.

https://www.qubes-os.org/doc/windows/. Is there any other one you would 
propose for this case?





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