Re: [qubes-users] How to Setup Wireless
On Friday, November 24, 2017 at 3:15:06 PM UTC, Ray Joseph wrote: > Yuraeitha, > > > Thank you. That was great detail. > > > I think I will redirect output to one continuos file to collect all VM info > and use that file to record my progress. > > > My biggest obstacle is that when the machine boots up, I do not always get a > keyboard (laptop). Plugging in a USB keyboard and mouse does not always work > > Maybe this is related to the VMs. My fist install of V4 was with a docking > station attached. Keyboard and mouse functionality was intermittent but if > the embedded set did not work, I could plug kbd into the laptop USB slots or > docking station. To fix this, I reinstalled V4 without the docking station. > The kbd is less predictable/controllable. > > > In both cases, I have found that repeated reboots sometimes production es a > functioning keyboard. I have also found that letting the laptop sit for a > while will sometimes provide the keyboard. This latter feature is what leads > me to consider that service VMs may be at play. > > > I have "newly" loaded the latest two versions of Debian over 30 times and 3 > installs of Qubes-os. I am open to experimenting. My challenge with Debian > was getting wireless to work with Xen bridging. > > > On Nov 24, 2017 4:02 AM, "Yuraeitha"wrote: > On Friday, November 24, 2017 at 2:01:18 AM UTC, Ray Joseph wrote: > > > Yuraeitha, > > > > > > Thank you. All of that was news. The need to run all VMs as HVM is the > > only one that seems to be a concern. When I get wifi working, I never lose > > it. > > > This was a fresh install and I am testing with this machine. > > > > > > I haven't been able to find how to convert existing VMs to HVM. Please > > suggest where I might find this. I've been going through docs and have not > > found it. > > > > > > Ray > > > > Good to hear you got stable WiFi :) > > > > Almost all (if not all) the docs are currently out-of-date when it comes to > Qubes 4, but up-to-date when it comes to Qubes 3.2. > > > > This is why there is currently no doc for changing PV to HVM, or vice versa. > HVM is prefered for security in Qubes 4, however both modes can give > different hardware trouble. For example I personally get issues running PV, > despite having PV working flawlessly back in Qubes 3.2. Others from what I > can read might have issues with HVM, and need to fall back to PV instead. > > > > That's why you can switch to whichever mode is preferred. But in terms of > security HVM is better than PV. However HVM is not perfect either, but > nontheless an improvement over PV. From what I've seen the developers > discuss, it seems like the plan is to move towards PVH in a future Qubes > release. This is in turn an improvement over HVM. So PV < HVM < PVH. So you > want HVM for now, but can change to PVH in a future Qubes release, probably > with the same command by then. > > > > Unfortunately there is no easy way to print out which VM is in PV or HVM. At > least, I haven't found it if there is any. The usual 'qvm-ls' command, > usually used to print VM information like disk usages, network use, template > use, etc. still appears to be in Qubes 3.2. version. For example a PV/HVM > print in qvm-ls would seem like something extremely useful to add into the > qvm-ls tool, so my guess is it's still something that needs fixing. > Especially when PVH is added to the mix in a future Qubes release. the > format, for example 'qvm-ls --format-help' doesn't give any PV/HVM > information either in any of the various flags to print more details of > different kinds. (btw, the qvm-ls --format disk' command is useful if you > want to know how much each VM is using disk space, now that the Qubes Manager > has been removed in Qubes 4. It can be troublesome if one of your VM's is > eating up a lot of disk space and you can't find which one, especially on > small SSD drives. That command can help with that. > > > > Anyway, back to the PV/HVM issue. The command to print PV/HVM, if you're not > familiar with the command already, then it can also give other VM > information, try type 'qvm-prefs vm-name' on whichever vm you want to check > VM preferences on. You'll see the virt_mode in here for the PV/HVM, along > with various other VM specific preferences for that VM. > > > > Optionally; for less terminal spam, you can type in this instead: > > qvm-prefs vm-name virt_mode > > > > If it gives you back PV print in terminal chat, then use keyboard arrow-up, > so you can re-use the same command again, and then add HVM afterwards, so it > becomes like this > > > > qvm-prefs vm-name virt_mode HVM > > > > Then repeat, go through all your VM's that might be in a PV state, be it > TemplateVM's, AappVMs, ServiceVM's, DisposableVM's, etc. > > Probably all your VM's originating from Qubes 4, are already set to HVM, but > almost
Re: [qubes-users] How to Setup Wireless
On Friday, November 24, 2017 at 3:15:06 PM UTC, Ray Joseph wrote: > Yuraeitha, > > > Thank you. That was great detail. > > > I think I will redirect output to one continuos file to collect all VM info > and use that file to record my progress. > > > My biggest obstacle is that when the machine boots up, I do not always get a > keyboard (laptop). Plugging in a USB keyboard and mouse does not always work > > Maybe this is related to the VMs. My fist install of V4 was with a docking > station attached. Keyboard and mouse functionality was intermittent but if > the embedded set did not work, I could plug kbd into the laptop USB slots or > docking station. To fix this, I reinstalled V4 without the docking station. > The kbd is less predictable/controllable. > > > In both cases, I have found that repeated reboots sometimes production es a > functioning keyboard. I have also found that letting the laptop sit for a > while will sometimes provide the keyboard. This latter feature is what leads > me to consider that service VMs may be at play. > > > I have "newly" loaded the latest two versions of Debian over 30 times and 3 > installs of Qubes-os. I am open to experimenting. My challenge with Debian > was getting wireless to work with Xen bridging. > > > On Nov 24, 2017 4:02 AM, "Yuraeitha"wrote: > On Friday, November 24, 2017 at 2:01:18 AM UTC, Ray Joseph wrote: > > > Yuraeitha, > > > > > > Thank you. All of that was news. The need to run all VMs as HVM is the > > only one that seems to be a concern. When I get wifi working, I never lose > > it. > > > This was a fresh install and I am testing with this machine. > > > > > > I haven't been able to find how to convert existing VMs to HVM. Please > > suggest where I might find this. I've been going through docs and have not > > found it. > > > > > > Ray > > > > Good to hear you got stable WiFi :) > > > > Almost all (if not all) the docs are currently out-of-date when it comes to > Qubes 4, but up-to-date when it comes to Qubes 3.2. > > > > This is why there is currently no doc for changing PV to HVM, or vice versa. > HVM is prefered for security in Qubes 4, however both modes can give > different hardware trouble. For example I personally get issues running PV, > despite having PV working flawlessly back in Qubes 3.2. Others from what I > can read might have issues with HVM, and need to fall back to PV instead. > > > > That's why you can switch to whichever mode is preferred. But in terms of > security HVM is better than PV. However HVM is not perfect either, but > nontheless an improvement over PV. From what I've seen the developers > discuss, it seems like the plan is to move towards PVH in a future Qubes > release. This is in turn an improvement over HVM. So PV < HVM < PVH. So you > want HVM for now, but can change to PVH in a future Qubes release, probably > with the same command by then. > > > > Unfortunately there is no easy way to print out which VM is in PV or HVM. At > least, I haven't found it if there is any. The usual 'qvm-ls' command, > usually used to print VM information like disk usages, network use, template > use, etc. still appears to be in Qubes 3.2. version. For example a PV/HVM > print in qvm-ls would seem like something extremely useful to add into the > qvm-ls tool, so my guess is it's still something that needs fixing. > Especially when PVH is added to the mix in a future Qubes release. the > format, for example 'qvm-ls --format-help' doesn't give any PV/HVM > information either in any of the various flags to print more details of > different kinds. (btw, the qvm-ls --format disk' command is useful if you > want to know how much each VM is using disk space, now that the Qubes Manager > has been removed in Qubes 4. It can be troublesome if one of your VM's is > eating up a lot of disk space and you can't find which one, especially on > small SSD drives. That command can help with that. > > > > Anyway, back to the PV/HVM issue. The command to print PV/HVM, if you're not > familiar with the command already, then it can also give other VM > information, try type 'qvm-prefs vm-name' on whichever vm you want to check > VM preferences on. You'll see the virt_mode in here for the PV/HVM, along > with various other VM specific preferences for that VM. > > > > Optionally; for less terminal spam, you can type in this instead: > > qvm-prefs vm-name virt_mode > > > > If it gives you back PV print in terminal chat, then use keyboard arrow-up, > so you can re-use the same command again, and then add HVM afterwards, so it > becomes like this > > > > qvm-prefs vm-name virt_mode HVM > > > > Then repeat, go through all your VM's that might be in a PV state, be it > TemplateVM's, AappVMs, ServiceVM's, DisposableVM's, etc. > > Probably all your VM's originating from Qubes 4, are already set to HVM, but > almost
Re: [qubes-users] How to Setup Wireless
Yuraeitha, Thank you. That was great detail. I think I will redirect output to one continuos file to collect all VM info and use that file to record my progress. My biggest obstacle is that when the machine boots up, I do not always get a keyboard (laptop). Plugging in a USB keyboard and mouse does not always work Maybe this is related to the VMs. My fist install of V4 was with a docking station attached. Keyboard and mouse functionality was intermittent but if the embedded set did not work, I could plug kbd into the laptop USB slots or docking station. To fix this, I reinstalled V4 without the docking station. The kbd is less predictable/controllable. In both cases, I have found that repeated reboots sometimes production es a functioning keyboard. I have also found that letting the laptop sit for a while will sometimes provide the keyboard. This latter feature is what leads me to consider that service VMs may be at play. I have "newly" loaded the latest two versions of Debian over 30 times and 3 installs of Qubes-os. I am open to experimenting. My challenge with Debian was getting wireless to work with Xen bridging. On Nov 24, 2017 4:02 AM, "Yuraeitha"wrote: > On Friday, November 24, 2017 at 2:01:18 AM UTC, Ray Joseph wrote: > > Yuraeitha, > > > > Thank you. All of that was news. The need to run all VMs as HVM is the > only one that seems to be a concern. When I get wifi working, I never lose > it. > > This was a fresh install and I am testing with this machine. > > > > I haven't been able to find how to convert existing VMs to HVM. Please > suggest where I might find this. I've been going through docs and have not > found it. > > > > Ray > > Good to hear you got stable WiFi :) > > Almost all (if not all) the docs are currently out-of-date when it comes > to Qubes 4, but up-to-date when it comes to Qubes 3.2. > > This is why there is currently no doc for changing PV to HVM, or vice > versa. HVM is prefered for security in Qubes 4, however both modes can give > different hardware trouble. For example I personally get issues running PV, > despite having PV working flawlessly back in Qubes 3.2. Others from what I > can read might have issues with HVM, and need to fall back to PV instead. > > That's why you can switch to whichever mode is preferred. But in terms of > security HVM is better than PV. However HVM is not perfect either, but > nontheless an improvement over PV. From what I've seen the developers > discuss, it seems like the plan is to move towards PVH in a future Qubes > release. This is in turn an improvement over HVM. So PV < HVM < PVH. So you > want HVM for now, but can change to PVH in a future Qubes release, probably > with the same command by then. > > Unfortunately there is no easy way to print out which VM is in PV or HVM. > At least, I haven't found it if there is any. The usual 'qvm-ls' command, > usually used to print VM information like disk usages, network use, > template use, etc. still appears to be in Qubes 3.2. version. For example a > PV/HVM print in qvm-ls would seem like something extremely useful to add > into the qvm-ls tool, so my guess is it's still something that needs > fixing. Especially when PVH is added to the mix in a future Qubes release. > the format, for example 'qvm-ls --format-help' doesn't give any PV/HVM > information either in any of the various flags to print more details of > different kinds. (btw, the qvm-ls --format disk' command is useful if you > want to know how much each VM is using disk space, now that the Qubes > Manager has been removed in Qubes 4. It can be troublesome if one of your > VM's is eating up a lot of disk space and you can't find which one, > especially on small SSD drives. That command can help with that. > > Anyway, back to the PV/HVM issue. The command to print PV/HVM, if you're > not familiar with the command already, then it can also give other VM > information, try type 'qvm-prefs vm-name' on whichever vm you want to check > VM preferences on. You'll see the virt_mode in here for the PV/HVM, along > with various other VM specific preferences for that VM. > > Optionally; for less terminal spam, you can type in this instead: > qvm-prefs vm-name virt_mode > > If it gives you back PV print in terminal chat, then use keyboard > arrow-up, so you can re-use the same command again, and then add HVM > afterwards, so it becomes like this > > qvm-prefs vm-name virt_mode HVM > > Then repeat, go through all your VM's that might be in a PV state, be it > TemplateVM's, AappVMs, ServiceVM's, DisposableVM's, etc. > Probably all your VM's originating from Qubes 4, are already set to HVM, > but almost certainly, any VM you got from a Qubes 3.2. backup are in PV > state. As far as I know, the Qubes team made it so the Qubes installer > might default back to PV if it cannot install with HVM, if true, then there > is a risk some of your original Qubes 4 VM's are in PV as well. If you want > to be
Re: [qubes-users] How to Setup Wireless
On Friday, November 24, 2017 at 2:01:18 AM UTC, Ray Joseph wrote: > Yuraeitha, > > Thank you. All of that was news. The need to run all VMs as HVM is the only > one that seems to be a concern. When I get wifi working, I never lose it. > This was a fresh install and I am testing with this machine. > > I haven't been able to find how to convert existing VMs to HVM. Please > suggest where I might find this. I've been going through docs and have not > found it. > > Ray Good to hear you got stable WiFi :) Almost all (if not all) the docs are currently out-of-date when it comes to Qubes 4, but up-to-date when it comes to Qubes 3.2. This is why there is currently no doc for changing PV to HVM, or vice versa. HVM is prefered for security in Qubes 4, however both modes can give different hardware trouble. For example I personally get issues running PV, despite having PV working flawlessly back in Qubes 3.2. Others from what I can read might have issues with HVM, and need to fall back to PV instead. That's why you can switch to whichever mode is preferred. But in terms of security HVM is better than PV. However HVM is not perfect either, but nontheless an improvement over PV. From what I've seen the developers discuss, it seems like the plan is to move towards PVH in a future Qubes release. This is in turn an improvement over HVM. So PV < HVM < PVH. So you want HVM for now, but can change to PVH in a future Qubes release, probably with the same command by then. Unfortunately there is no easy way to print out which VM is in PV or HVM. At least, I haven't found it if there is any. The usual 'qvm-ls' command, usually used to print VM information like disk usages, network use, template use, etc. still appears to be in Qubes 3.2. version. For example a PV/HVM print in qvm-ls would seem like something extremely useful to add into the qvm-ls tool, so my guess is it's still something that needs fixing. Especially when PVH is added to the mix in a future Qubes release. the format, for example 'qvm-ls --format-help' doesn't give any PV/HVM information either in any of the various flags to print more details of different kinds. (btw, the qvm-ls --format disk' command is useful if you want to know how much each VM is using disk space, now that the Qubes Manager has been removed in Qubes 4. It can be troublesome if one of your VM's is eating up a lot of disk space and you can't find which one, especially on small SSD drives. That command can help with that. Anyway, back to the PV/HVM issue. The command to print PV/HVM, if you're not familiar with the command already, then it can also give other VM information, try type 'qvm-prefs vm-name' on whichever vm you want to check VM preferences on. You'll see the virt_mode in here for the PV/HVM, along with various other VM specific preferences for that VM. Optionally; for less terminal spam, you can type in this instead: qvm-prefs vm-name virt_mode If it gives you back PV print in terminal chat, then use keyboard arrow-up, so you can re-use the same command again, and then add HVM afterwards, so it becomes like this qvm-prefs vm-name virt_mode HVM Then repeat, go through all your VM's that might be in a PV state, be it TemplateVM's, AappVMs, ServiceVM's, DisposableVM's, etc. Probably all your VM's originating from Qubes 4, are already set to HVM, but almost certainly, any VM you got from a Qubes 3.2. backup are in PV state. As far as I know, the Qubes team made it so the Qubes installer might default back to PV if it cannot install with HVM, if true, then there is a risk some of your original Qubes 4 VM's are in PV as well. If you want to be absolutely sure, spend a few minutes running through all your VM's to verify. Technically you don't need to print out, and can just use the change command on every VM, but it might be good to know if you corrected any, so making a print in chat first before changing, might be informative, especially if on a VM that previously has given trouble, or if the VM will give you trouble after changed to HVM. So it's a good idea to keep an eye out for changes you make instead of just rolling it out on all. Also if some of the original VM's after install or VM's created in Qubes 4, are PV. Then it might be because your hardware doesn't like HVM and falls back to PV instead. Might be a good idea to keep in mind, start slow and verify if it can run HVM before changing all the other VM's if that's the case. Personally I had to delete some of my AppVM's after changing from PV to HVM, as while it was an improvement, it wasn't enough in my situation to fix all of the issues. So I transfered my data and files from the few bad behaving AppVM's to a new Qubes 4 VM. The only AppVm's that missbehaved, were Qubes 3.2. backup AppVm's. Oddly, it was only some of them, and not all of them that misbehaved. To this day, I still don't know why that was the case. However, now most
Re: [qubes-users] How to Setup Wireless
On Wednesday, November 22, 2017 at 7:43:59 PM UTC, Ray Joseph wrote: > donoban, > > Thank you. It is now running in dom0. I changed to v4.0RC1. My vms start > intermittently so it is a challenge to test further. > > I guess I could practice in v3.2 until v4 matures. Actually, if you managed to get that far, you can probably manage to get Qubes 4 to run more or less smoothly. Albeit still may be unlucky to encounter a nasty bug of course, but in my own experience it runs pretty smoothly with newest updates and fixed user mistakes. Qubes 4 user (or semi-user) mistakes that I encountered, that have a big impact on a working Qubes 4: - Not making sure ALL VM's, i.e. from restored backup, are set to HVM instead of PV. This can mess up your VM's, as some systems can no longer run PV VM's properly in Qubes 4, despite having done so just fine in Qubes 3.2. - Using any older Qubes 3.2. templates. A lot of changes was made to the Qubes tools, so the Qubes tools code probably changed in the VM templates too. Be sure you are mindful of this, if you insist on using an older Qubes 3.2. VM template. - A bug in the AppVM templates, seem to mess up icon update in the XFCE4 menu, or somehow even preventing apps to start in VM's. If you encounter a bad AppVM, check if it was restored from Qubes 3.2. If so, then manually transfter your files, bookmarks, etc. out of it and over into a new Qubes 4 freshly made AppVM. - VT-D and similar, is now required for a fully working system, instead of just recommended as it was in Qubes 3.2. and back. You may be able to install, but it won't run smooth without VT-D or similar supported tech. - Newest Qubes (Testing update) has a drawback of Hibernate/Suspend breaking Wi-Fi, and various of other VM functionality. For example all your VM apps may be gone and cannot start. Only solution is either restart ALL your VM's, or in the worst cases, having to restart all of Qubes. Still, this is a testing update, and a user mistake for using a testing update. The developers will probably get it fixed eventually. Staying with regular updates should be safe, I assume of course. If you get the bug, then just be sure you save important work if you use suspend/hibernate. This is likely a pass-through issue (I think), but its definitely not a driver/module issue, like those we otherwise often saw in the past after hibernate/suspend. Either way, my guess is its probably soon fixed before it becomes a normal update. I'm not saying to go Qubes 4 for stability or critical data production, though, in my experience the user (or semi user) mistakes above can have a huge impact on if Qubes 4 works properly or not. There are still other issues, but they are getting more rare, and mostly everything seems to work now. Personally I'd rate Qubes RC-2, fully updated to this date, as late stage beta testing. But that's just my look at it. If you got important work, then it's probably better to stay on Qubes 3.2. for a while yet. If not, and you want to play with Qubes, then you can probably get it work reasonably on supported hardware. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "qubes-users" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to qubes-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to qubes-users@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/qubes-users/658c1271-b949-413e-a768-6840e17f665c%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [qubes-users] How to Setup Wireless
donoban, Thank you. It is now running in dom0. I changed to v4.0RC1. My vms start intermittently so it is a challenge to test further. I guess I could practice in v3.2 until v4 matures. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "qubes-users" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to qubes-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to qubes-users@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/qubes-users/8cd83d2c-a615-431f-90f7-6dfa8fba7724%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [qubes-users] How to Setup Wireless
On 10/30/2017 03:29 PM, donoban wrote: > On 10/30/2017 12:53 AM, Ray Joseph wrote: >> How do I enter my password? In Debian9, I installed wpa_supplicant to >> include a key in network/interfaces. Should this same method be used for >> sys-net? >> >> Where would I find this type of information. Searching the Qubes-OS doc, I >> only found one reference to wireless and that was how to unload and load the >> wirel drivers. >> >> BTW, I had cloned sys-net vm to experiment. But it would not start. Andrew >> pointed to developer docs where it was stated that a vm that would use a >> device already in use will not start. >> https://github.com/QubesOS/qubes-issues/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+label%3A%22C%3A+doc%22 >> >> Just for the record, since I will probably forget that. >> >> Thanks, >> Ray >> > > Hi, > > Did you check if your wireless card is attached to your sys-net? Try > running "sudo lspci" on sys-net and look something like: > > 00:01.0 Network controller: Intel Corporation Wireless 7265 (rev 61) > > If you don't see it try to attach it using the Qubes VM Manager (on > version 3.2). > > If the device is right, check your dmesg log (running "sudo dmesg") on > sys-net and check if you are missing some proprietary firmware or it > complains about another problem. > Sorry, I didn't read your other mail. It seems that your card is properly loaded. What do you see when you click on network manager icon? Does "iwlist scan" give some results? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "qubes-users" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to qubes-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to qubes-users@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/qubes-users/e4a23ef4-8da1-de07-0317-d09dc8847861%40riseup.net. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [qubes-users] How to Setup Wireless
On 10/30/2017 12:53 AM, Ray Joseph wrote: > How do I enter my password? In Debian9, I installed wpa_supplicant to > include a key in network/interfaces. Should this same method be used for > sys-net? > > Where would I find this type of information. Searching the Qubes-OS doc, I > only found one reference to wireless and that was how to unload and load the > wirel drivers. > > BTW, I had cloned sys-net vm to experiment. But it would not start. Andrew > pointed to developer docs where it was stated that a vm that would use a > device already in use will not start. > https://github.com/QubesOS/qubes-issues/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+label%3A%22C%3A+doc%22 > > Just for the record, since I will probably forget that. > > Thanks, > Ray > Hi, Did you check if your wireless card is attached to your sys-net? Try running "sudo lspci" on sys-net and look something like: 00:01.0 Network controller: Intel Corporation Wireless 7265 (rev 61) If you don't see it try to attach it using the Qubes VM Manager (on version 3.2). If the device is right, check your dmesg log (running "sudo dmesg") on sys-net and check if you are missing some proprietary firmware or it complains about another problem. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "qubes-users" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to qubes-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to qubes-users@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/qubes-users/540e845c-b742-7246-4ac9-0d3dce5edeea%40riseup.net. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
[qubes-users] How to Setup Wireless
How do I enter my password? In Debian9, I installed wpa_supplicant to include a key in network/interfaces. Should this same method be used for sys-net? Where would I find this type of information. Searching the Qubes-OS doc, I only found one reference to wireless and that was how to unload and load the wirel drivers. BTW, I had cloned sys-net vm to experiment. But it would not start. Andrew pointed to developer docs where it was stated that a vm that would use a device already in use will not start. https://github.com/QubesOS/qubes-issues/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+label%3A%22C%3A+doc%22 Just for the record, since I will probably forget that. Thanks, Ray -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "qubes-users" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to qubes-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to qubes-users@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/qubes-users/643c03db-6170-4be2-ae55-7a256fa667c0%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.