Re: [qubes-users] Qubes OS 4.0.2-rc2 has been released!

2019-11-05 Thread Andrew David Wong
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512


On 2019-11-05 10:01 PM, Andrew David Wong wrote:
> On 2019-11-05 8:15 AM, Steve Coleman wrote:
>> On 2019-11-04 22:12, Andrew David Wong wrote: On 2019-11-04 6:05
>> AM, Anac wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Is it just me or does the iso really not fit onto a regular
> DVD? I tried several burn programs - same result. The 4.8 GB
> iso doesn't fit onto a 4.7 GB DVD. Is a double-layer DVD
> required or is it possible to delete some seldomly needed
> parts from the iso? Or did I catch a
> [three-digits-agency]-in-the-middle version?
>
> Cheers, Anac
>
> 
>> Please see the discussion on this issue:
> 
>> https://github.com/QubesOS/qubes-issues/issues/5367
> 
>> Basically, making this release small enough to fit on a DVD would
>> have required too many other sacrifices. In the end, we decided
>> that this was the least bad option.
> 
>>> I would like to make a suggestion here.
> 
>>> If you know at the time of a release that the ISO will not fit on
>>> a regular DVD then it would make sense to mention that up front,
>>> and then use a link to point the potential user directly at the
>>> instructions for using/creating a bootable USB thumb drive.
> 
>>> The installation instructions do mention this USB option, but
>>> that "option" should be front and center at the top, as it is
>>> probably the best/only option for those without a dual-layer DVD
>>> drive installed in their machine. The DVD installation
>>> instructions should also say "dual layer DVD" just to be clear
>>> about this known size problem.
> 
> This is a good suggestion. Thank you! We'll do this for the next 4.0.2
> announcement and update the documentation accordingly.
> 

Here's the updated documentation section:

https://www.qubes-os.org/doc/installation-guide/#copying-the-iso-onto-the-installation-medium

I've also updated the RC2 announcement on the website for anyone who
might refer to it in the future:

https://www.qubes-os.org/news/2019/11/03/qubes-4-0-2-rc2/#what-should-i-do

This will also help us remember to mention it in the next release
announcement.

- -- 
Andrew David Wong (Axon)
Community Manager, Qubes OS
https://www.qubes-os.org

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Re: [qubes-users] Qubes OS 4.0.2-rc2 has been released!

2019-11-05 Thread Andrew David Wong
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Hash: SHA512

On 2019-11-05 8:15 AM, Steve Coleman wrote:
> On 2019-11-04 22:12, Andrew David Wong wrote: On 2019-11-04 6:05
> AM, Anac wrote:
 Hi all,

 Is it just me or does the iso really not fit onto a regular
 DVD? I tried several burn programs - same result. The 4.8 GB
 iso doesn't fit onto a 4.7 GB DVD. Is a double-layer DVD
 required or is it possible to delete some seldomly needed
 parts from the iso? Or did I catch a
 [three-digits-agency]-in-the-middle version?

 Cheers, Anac

>
> Please see the discussion on this issue:
>
> https://github.com/QubesOS/qubes-issues/issues/5367
>
> Basically, making this release small enough to fit on a DVD would
> have required too many other sacrifices. In the end, we decided
> that this was the least bad option.
>
>> I would like to make a suggestion here.
>
>> If you know at the time of a release that the ISO will not fit on
>> a regular DVD then it would make sense to mention that up front,
>> and then use a link to point the potential user directly at the
>> instructions for using/creating a bootable USB thumb drive.
>
>> The installation instructions do mention this USB option, but
>> that "option" should be front and center at the top, as it is
>> probably the best/only option for those without a dual-layer DVD
>> drive installed in their machine. The DVD installation
>> instructions should also say "dual layer DVD" just to be clear
>> about this known size problem.

This is a good suggestion. Thank you! We'll do this for the next 4.0.2
announcement and update the documentation accordingly.

- -- 
Andrew David Wong (Axon)
Community Manager, Qubes OS
https://www.qubes-os.org

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Re: [qubes-users] Qubes OS 4.0.2-rc2 has been released!

2019-11-05 Thread Steve Coleman

On 2019-11-04 22:12, Andrew David Wong wrote:

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

On 2019-11-04 6:05 AM, Anac wrote:

Hi all,

Is it just me or does the iso really not fit onto a regular DVD? I
tried several burn programs - same result. The 4.8 GB iso doesn't
fit onto a 4.7 GB DVD. Is a double-layer DVD required or is it
possible to delete some seldomly needed parts from the iso? Or did
I catch a [three-digits-agency]-in-the-middle version?

Cheers, Anac



Please see the discussion on this issue:

https://github.com/QubesOS/qubes-issues/issues/5367

Basically, making this release small enough to fit on a DVD would have
required too many other sacrifices. In the end, we decided that this
was the least bad option.


I would like to make a suggestion here.

If you know at the time of a release that the ISO will not fit on a 
regular DVD then it would make sense to mention that up front, and then 
use a link to point the potential user directly at the instructions for 
using/creating a bootable USB thumb drive.


The installation instructions do mention this USB option, but that 
"option" should be front and center at the top, as it is probably the 
best/only option for those without a dual-layer DVD drive installed in 
their machine. The DVD installation instructions should also say "dual 
layer DVD" just to be clear about this known size problem.



- -- 
Andrew David Wong (Axon)

Community Manager, Qubes OS
https://www.qubes-os.org

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Re: [qubes-users] Qubes OS 4.0.2-rc2 has been released!

2019-11-04 Thread Andrew David Wong
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On 2019-11-04 6:05 AM, Anac wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Is it just me or does the iso really not fit onto a regular DVD? I
> tried several burn programs - same result. The 4.8 GB iso doesn't
> fit onto a 4.7 GB DVD. Is a double-layer DVD required or is it
> possible to delete some seldomly needed parts from the iso? Or did
> I catch a [three-digits-agency]-in-the-middle version?
>
> Cheers, Anac
>

Please see the discussion on this issue:

https://github.com/QubesOS/qubes-issues/issues/5367

Basically, making this release small enough to fit on a DVD would have
required too many other sacrifices. In the end, we decided that this
was the least bad option.

- -- 
Andrew David Wong (Axon)
Community Manager, Qubes OS
https://www.qubes-os.org

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Re: [qubes-users] Qubes OS 4.0.2-rc2 has been released!

2019-11-04 Thread Chris Laprise

On 11/4/19 8:16 AM, unman wrote:

On Mon, Nov 04, 2019 at 11:48:12AM +, Claudia wrote:

Anac:

Hi all,

Is it just me or does the iso really not fit onto a regular DVD? I tried
several burn programs - same result. The 4.8 GB iso doesn't fit onto a
4.7 GB DVD. Is a double-layer DVD required or is it possible to delete
some seldomly needed parts from the iso? Or did I catch a
[three-digits-agency]-in-the-middle version?

Cheers,
Anac



I haven't tried burning it, but it looks like you're right. The iso is
4,790,943,744 bytes (4.79 GB, 4.56 GiB). The highest-capacity kind of single
layer DVD appears to be 4,700,000,000 bytes [1].

Apparently it's not that unusual though. There are several releases
exceeding 4.7 GB, some over 5.2 GB. [2]

Maybe you could unpack it, poke around and see if you can delete about 90 MB
worth of stuff, and re-pack it. Otherwise you might have to build the ISO
yourself.

In any case, though, you'll break the signature, which is usually the
biggest advantage of using a DVD instead of USB.

[1] http://www.osta.org/technology/dvdqa/dvdqa6.htm
[2] https://ftp.qubes-os.org/iso/


You're absolutely right.
There was a discussion over at qubes-issues (I think), about the
problems of trying to fit in to a standard DVD, and I think this release
reflects that.
As I recall the assumption was that most users burn to USB - clearly not
so here. I haven't tried this iso but I assume that double-layer would be
required or USB.
Workarounds for this would be to release different versions of the iso
for different use cases, with stripped down or alternate packages. E.g,
removing Whonix, or packaging it in a different way, including only
minimal versions of Fedora/Debian with ability to install online as
needed. All of these run against the current wish to provide a fully
functioning system out of the box. (Debian templates, of course, are
small but not minimal, and require users to install software they want,
as it is.)


IIRC the iso currently carries all three Debian-based templates. So it 
seems one possible solution would be to merge debian-10 with whonix-gw 
and whonix-ws into a single template that can be adapted at/after 
installation to specific roles.


And if it were up to me, I'd also leave Fedora off the iso as well. IMO 
its useful for Qubes development and little else, and it should not be 
used where strong security is desired.


--

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https://twitter.com/ttaskett
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Re: [qubes-users] Qubes OS 4.0.2-rc2 has been released!

2019-11-04 Thread unman
On Mon, Nov 04, 2019 at 11:48:12AM +, Claudia wrote:
> Anac:
> > Hi all,
> > 
> > Is it just me or does the iso really not fit onto a regular DVD? I tried
> > several burn programs - same result. The 4.8 GB iso doesn't fit onto a
> > 4.7 GB DVD. Is a double-layer DVD required or is it possible to delete
> > some seldomly needed parts from the iso? Or did I catch a
> > [three-digits-agency]-in-the-middle version?
> > 
> > Cheers,
> > Anac
> > 
> 
> I haven't tried burning it, but it looks like you're right. The iso is
> 4,790,943,744 bytes (4.79 GB, 4.56 GiB). The highest-capacity kind of single
> layer DVD appears to be 4,700,000,000 bytes [1].
> 
> Apparently it's not that unusual though. There are several releases
> exceeding 4.7 GB, some over 5.2 GB. [2]
> 
> Maybe you could unpack it, poke around and see if you can delete about 90 MB
> worth of stuff, and re-pack it. Otherwise you might have to build the ISO
> yourself.
> 
> In any case, though, you'll break the signature, which is usually the
> biggest advantage of using a DVD instead of USB.
> 
> [1] http://www.osta.org/technology/dvdqa/dvdqa6.htm
> [2] https://ftp.qubes-os.org/iso/

You're absolutely right.
There was a discussion over at qubes-issues (I think), about the
problems of trying to fit in to a standard DVD, and I think this release
reflects that.
As I recall the assumption was that most users burn to USB - clearly not
so here. I haven't tried this iso but I assume that double-layer would be
required or USB.
Workarounds for this would be to release different versions of the iso
for different use cases, with stripped down or alternate packages. E.g,
removing Whonix, or packaging it in a different way, including only
minimal versions of Fedora/Debian with ability to install online as
needed. All of these run against the current wish to provide a fully
functioning system out of the box. (Debian templates, of course, are
small but not minimal, and require users to install software they want,
as it is.)

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Re: [qubes-users] Qubes OS 4.0.2-rc2 has been released!

2019-11-04 Thread Claudia

Anac:

Hi all,

Is it just me or does the iso really not fit onto a regular DVD? I tried
several burn programs - same result. The 4.8 GB iso doesn't fit onto a
4.7 GB DVD. Is a double-layer DVD required or is it possible to delete
some seldomly needed parts from the iso? Or did I catch a
[three-digits-agency]-in-the-middle version?

Cheers,
Anac



I haven't tried burning it, but it looks like you're right. The iso is 
4,790,943,744 bytes (4.79 GB, 4.56 GiB). The highest-capacity kind of 
single layer DVD appears to be 4,700,000,000 bytes [1].


Apparently it's not that unusual though. There are several releases 
exceeding 4.7 GB, some over 5.2 GB. [2]


Maybe you could unpack it, poke around and see if you can delete about 
90 MB worth of stuff, and re-pack it. Otherwise you might have to build 
the ISO yourself.


In any case, though, you'll break the signature, which is usually the 
biggest advantage of using a DVD instead of USB.


[1] http://www.osta.org/technology/dvdqa/dvdqa6.htm
[2] https://ftp.qubes-os.org/iso/

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Re: [qubes-users] Qubes OS 4.0.2-rc2 has been released!

2019-11-04 Thread Anac
Hi all,

Is it just me or does the iso really not fit onto a regular DVD? I tried
several burn programs - same result. The 4.8 GB iso doesn't fit onto a
4.7 GB DVD. Is a double-layer DVD required or is it possible to delete
some seldomly needed parts from the iso? Or did I catch a
[three-digits-agency]-in-the-middle version?

Cheers,
Anac

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[qubes-users] Qubes OS 4.0.2-rc2 has been released!

2019-11-03 Thread Andrew David Wong
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

Dear Qubes Community,

We're pleased to announce the second release candidate for Qubes 4.0.2!

Features:
- - All 4.0 dom0 updates to date
- - Fedora 30 TemplateVM
- - Debian 10 TemplateVM
- - Whonix 15 Gateway and Workstation TemplateVMs
- - Linux kernel 4.19 by default

Qubes 4.0.2-rc2 is available on the Downloads page:

https://www.qubes-os.org/downloads/


What is a point release?


A point release does not designate a separate, new version of Qubes OS.
Rather, it designates its respective major or minor release (in this
case, 4.0) inclusive of all updates up to a certain point. Installing
Qubes 4.0 and fully updating it results in the same system as installing
Qubes 4.0.2.


What should I do?
=

If you installed Qubes 4.0 or 4.0.1 and have fully updated [1], then
your system is already equivalent to a Qubes 4.0.2 installation. No
further action is required.

Regardless of your current OS, if you wish to install (or reinstall)
Qubes 4.0 for any reason, then the 4.0.2 ISO makes this more convenient
and secure, since it bundles all Qubes 4.0 updates to date.


Release candidate planning
==

If no major issues are discovered in 4.0.2-rc2, we expect the stable
release of 4.0.2 to follow in a few weeks. As usual, you can help by
reporting any bugs you encounter[2].


[1] https://www.qubes-os.org/doc/updating-qubes-os/
[2] https://www.qubes-os.org/doc/reporting-bugs/

This announcement is also available on the Qubes website:
https://www.qubes-os.org/news/2019/11/03/qubes-4-0-2-rc2/

- -- 
Andrew David Wong (Axon)
Community Manager, Qubes OS
https://www.qubes-os.org

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