Re: [qubes-users] Qubes OS 4.0 first release candidate (rc1) has been released!

[@LeeteqXV (Twitter & Mastodon.technology)]

On 04/08/17 18:18, Micah Lee wrote:

On 08/04/2017 07:19 AM, Zrubi wrote:

But still feels like a bare naked login screen. IMHO this should
be just as important as the Qubes boot (splash) screen.

Which also have similar aesthetic. Do you think about just some
better background there, or some bigger change?

A would say it's needs a bigger change.
But of course this is really subjective, and currently do not have
time to design a qubes related skin for the login manager :(

So this is just my (and my surroundings) opinion.
Handle with sustenance ;)

On a related note, I would love to see some better Qubes graphics
design. Especially, in my opinion, better built-in choices for the
desktop wallpaper.

Good default wallpaper makes a big difference in first impression of an
OS. (And until #215 is implemented, users who aren't comfortable with
Linux will have a hard time figuring out how to set a custom dom0
wallpaper themselves, and will probably expose dom0 to an untrusted
image in any case.)

Maybe there are some graphics designers or professional photographers in
the Qubes community. I wonder if a call for wallpaper submissions or
something similar could help?
Wallpapers (and first impressions...) are really important, even more so 
with less GUI snacks.
There are many great, suitable and royalty-free wallpaper images at 
www.Pixabay.com .
Just need to select some that have some practical areas where the Qubes 
logo can be added.


I think that Qubes should come with a decent collection with various 
categories to choose from (5-15 options in each category? nature, 
animals, urban, countryside, skyline, linux, tech, future, ... etc.)


Here are 10 potential wallpapers from Pixabay (royalty-free):
https://pixabay.com/en/coast-concrete-lighthouse-ocean-1838593/
https://pixabay.com/en/lighthouse-night-beacon-historic-1969705/
https://pixabay.com/en/human-group-clock-time-silhouette-439149/
https://pixabay.com/en/path-road-unknown-sand-dessert-1461447/
https://pixabay.com/en/fractals-background-mathematics-1800242/
https://pixabay.com/en/sunset-beach-hype-mijas-costa-1226113/
https://pixabay.com/en/anonymous-protect-campaign-2023760/
https://pixabay.com/en/water-flowing-whitewater-splash-195926/
https://pixabay.com/en/finger-fingerprint-security-digital-2081169/
https://pixabay.com/en/titan-3-super-computer-large-fast-79578/

Regards,
https://mastodon.technology/@LeeteqXV/
https://twitter.com/@LeeteqXV/
https://Leeteq.com/

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Re: [qubes-users] Qubes OS 4.0 first release candidate (rc1) has been released!

[yuraeitha]

On Saturday, August 5, 2017 at 8:28:37 AM UTC, Marek Marczykowski-Górecki wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA256
> 
> On Sat, Aug 05, 2017 at 04:04:27AM -0400, P R wrote:
> > Hello Marek,
> > 
> > Am 05.08.2017 9:44 vorm. schrieb "Marek Marczykowski-Górecki" <
> > marma...@invisiblethingslab.com>:
> > 
> > On Fri, Aug 04, 2017 at 10:28:45PM
> > > Start failed: internal error: libxenlight failed to create new domain
> > > 'sys-firewall'
> > 
> > Make sure you have VT-x and VT-d enabled in BIOS.
> > 
> > 
> > Indeed, I have checked BIOS setting and vt-d was disabled for some strange
> > reason (it was enabled under Qubes 3.2 before).
> > 
> > If I try to start the AppVMs and also the Fedora-25 Template VM I get the
> > same error.
> > As I also got the message at the end of the Qubes installation process, do
> > you suggest to reinstall, now that vt-d is enabled?
> > 
> > Another strange issue is that I can only see 'Start' in the list of
> > available applications in all Fedora VMs.
> > 
> > As I haven't read this before, it seems that something is broken.
> > Guess reinstalling  is the best option??
> 
> Probably yes - without VT-x and VT-d, initial configuration failed.
> 
> - -- 
> Best Regards,
> Marek Marczykowski-Górecki
> Invisible Things Lab
> A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
> Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
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Marek, no ill intentions meant here, but the concerns of the release isn't just 
technical ones. There are questions regarding which target group whom Qubes 
want to spend time and resources on.
Will these issues not be addressed? Are there no one in the Qubes team whom 
work with with public relation role, to address these issues,, especially 
during a major release? 

Again, no ill intentions here, but it would be nice to know if your focus is 
now entirely business users, or if you also intend to make a system for the 
everyday users as originally planned. 
Do regular users take a backseat now? or are both being kept in focus? 

This is not a a complaint, but rather, it would just be nice to know rather 
than keeping it a secret. I do not believe you intend to make it a secret, but 
it can come across as such, that's why I request a statement on the matter.

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Re: [qubes-users] Qubes OS 4.0 first release candidate (rc1) has been released!

['P R' via qubes-users]

Additional information, I forgot to mention:

Am 05.08.2017 12:49 nachm. schrieb "P R" :

Hello,

Am 05.08.2017 10:28 vorm. schrieb "Marek Marczykowski-Górecki" <
marma...@invisiblethingslab.com>:

(...)
Probably yes - without VT-x and VT-d, initial configuration failed.


I have no restarted installation on my Lenovo X200 with VT-x and VT-d
enabled but it seems that the installation hangs after booting up.
I have removed rhgb quiet and set console=vga to see what is happening.
After the first few lines the displays clears and I get a black screen
while the drive LED is on (so there seems to be some activity, but nothing
happens.

I remember that there were some issues with installing Qubes on a X200.
(...)


When I boot with VT-d disabled the Qubes 4 installer works and is booting
into the Graphical installation GUI.

So it seems that there is a problem launching the installer with VT-d
enabled.
But without VT-d I get error messages after the installation has finished,
which means that I am currently out of luck installation Qubes 4 on my X200.

:-/

- PhR

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Re: [qubes-users] Qubes OS 4.0 first release candidate (rc1) has been released!

['P R' via qubes-users]

Hello,

Am 05.08.2017 10:28 vorm. schrieb "Marek Marczykowski-Górecki" <
marma...@invisiblethingslab.com>:

(...)
Probably yes - without VT-x and VT-d, initial configuration failed.


I have no restarted installation on my Lenovo X200 with VT-x and VT-d
enabled but it seems that the installation hangs after booting up.
I have removed rhgb quiet and set console=vga to see what is happening.
After the first few lines the displays clears and I get a black screen
while the drive LED is on (so there seems to be some activity, but nothing
happens.

I remember that there were some issues with installing Qubes on a X200.

Question: is there any setting I can tweak during grub boot to be able to
run the Qubes OS installed with VT-x and VT-d enabled?

Anyone else tried to install Qubes 4 on a Lenovo X200?

- PhR


- --
Best Regards,
Marek Marczykowski-Górecki
Invisible Things Lab
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
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Re: [qubes-users] Qubes OS 4.0 first release candidate (rc1) has been released!

[Marek Marczykowski-Górecki]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

On Sat, Aug 05, 2017 at 04:04:27AM -0400, P R wrote:
> Hello Marek,
> 
> Am 05.08.2017 9:44 vorm. schrieb "Marek Marczykowski-Górecki" <
> marma...@invisiblethingslab.com>:
> 
> On Fri, Aug 04, 2017 at 10:28:45PM
> > Start failed: internal error: libxenlight failed to create new domain
> > 'sys-firewall'
> 
> Make sure you have VT-x and VT-d enabled in BIOS.
> 
> 
> Indeed, I have checked BIOS setting and vt-d was disabled for some strange
> reason (it was enabled under Qubes 3.2 before).
> 
> If I try to start the AppVMs and also the Fedora-25 Template VM I get the
> same error.
> As I also got the message at the end of the Qubes installation process, do
> you suggest to reinstall, now that vt-d is enabled?
> 
> Another strange issue is that I can only see 'Start' in the list of
> available applications in all Fedora VMs.
> 
> As I haven't read this before, it seems that something is broken.
> Guess reinstalling  is the best option??

Probably yes - without VT-x and VT-d, initial configuration failed.

- -- 
Best Regards,
Marek Marczykowski-Górecki
Invisible Things Lab
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
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Re: [qubes-users] Qubes OS 4.0 first release candidate (rc1) has been released!

['P R' via qubes-users]

Hello Marek,

Am 05.08.2017 9:44 vorm. schrieb "Marek Marczykowski-Górecki" <
marma...@invisiblethingslab.com>:

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

On Fri, Aug 04, 2017 at 10:28:45PM
> Start failed: internal error: libxenlight failed to create new domain
> 'sys-firewall'

Make sure you have VT-x and VT-d enabled in BIOS.


Indeed, I have checked BIOS setting and vt-d was disabled for some strange
reason (it was enabled under Qubes 3.2 before).

If I try to start the AppVMs and also the Fedora-25 Template VM I get the
same error.
As I also got the message at the end of the Qubes installation process, do
you suggest to reinstall, now that vt-d is enabled?

Another strange issue is that I can only see 'Start' in the list of
available applications in all Fedora VMs.

As I haven't read this before, it seems that something is broken.
Guess reinstalling  is the best option??

- PhR

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Re: [qubes-users] Qubes OS 4.0 first release candidate (rc1) has been released!

[Marek Marczykowski-Górecki]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

On Fri, Aug 04, 2017 at 10:28:45PM -0400, P R wrote:
> I installed Qubes 4rc1 on my Lenovo X200, Installation took some time, but
> successful.
> 
> After the first boot I choosed to configure sys-net, sys-firewall, sys-usb.
> After a few minutes I got an error message (attached).
> I was able to login into Qubes afterwards but I can't start any VM except
> sys-net:
> 
> qvm-start sys-firewall, results in:
> 
> Start failed: internal error: libxenlight failed to create new domain
> 'sys-firewall'

Make sure you have VT-x and VT-d enabled in BIOS.

- -- 
Best Regards,
Marek Marczykowski-Górecki
Invisible Things Lab
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
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Re: [qubes-users] Qubes OS 4.0 first release candidate (rc1) has been released!

[Zrubi]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

On 08/04/2017 02:20 PM, Marek Marczykowski-Górecki wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 04, 2017 at 01:12:29PM +0200, Zrubi wrote:

>> Can't see the networking stuff. The most important is (at least
>> for me) the actual NetVM used by a Qube.
> 
> So, you switch netvm for VMs frequently? Doesn't it mean you should
> have separate VMs, instead of switching one between two (or more)
> networks?

No.
I'm using separate WiFi, and Ethernet VM's, I have several VPN proxy
VM's as well, my dispVM start without net access. And need to use/test
lot of things with different network exits.


> Anyway, adding such information to domains widget shouldn't be a
> big problem. Just don't show it by default (see reasoning why
> dropping old manager, in announcement post).

I do not really agree with the reasoning tho.
But if it would be customizable? - just like the old Qubes manager ;)


> The main reason for nftables is to simplify custom scripts. If you 
> have nftables, qubes-firewall no longer flush standard tables - it 
> register its own. This means you don't need to re-apply own rules
> every time qubes-firewall change something. And you can register
> own tables before or after qubes-firewall. And in theory you can
> still use iptables for your custom rules.

Let's talk about these in a separate thread or ticket
Will collect my ideas and share it soon.

Currently even the basic networking looks unreliable, so I can't even
test my custom firewall rules...


>> But still feels like a bare naked login screen. IMHO this should
>> be just as important as the Qubes boot (splash) screen.
> 
> Which also have similar aesthetic. Do you think about just some
> better background there, or some bigger change?

A would say it's needs a bigger change.
But of course this is really subjective, and currently do not have
time to design a qubes related skin for the login manager :(

So this is just my (and my surroundings) opinion.
Handle with sustenance ;)


- -- 
Zrubi
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Re: [qubes-users] Qubes OS 4.0 first release candidate (rc1) has been released!

[Zrubi]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

On 08/03/2017 08:30 PM, Micah Lee wrote:
> The devices systray applet thing for me lists these devices:
> 
> sys-firewall:1-1 QEMU_QEMU_USB_Tablet_42

> 
> What is this qemu thing in sys-firewall?
Ihave the same issue, opened a ticket to track:
https://github.com/QubesOS/qubes-issues/issues/2969

- -- 
Zrubi
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Re: [qubes-users] Qubes OS 4.0 first release candidate (rc1) has been released!

[Marek Marczykowski-Górecki]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

On Fri, Aug 04, 2017 at 01:12:29PM +0200, Zrubi wrote:
> On 08/01/2017 01:02 PM, Marek Marczykowski-Górecki wrote:
> > On Tue, Aug 01, 2017 at 11:25:11AM +0200, Zrubi wrote:
> 
> >> - The isntall process is really long. Not debugged jet but
> >> the creating initramfs seems to be running forever. But at least
> >> was successfull at the end :)
> > 
> > Is it just about initramfs and "post installation tasks" - compared
> > to the whole installation time? There may be some bug causing
> > initramfs being generated twice (or more...) - I think I've fixed
> > something like this before, but maybe not all the places.
> Yes, this is the case.
> But have no time to install it again and again to identify the root
> cause :(

I have some other installer issues to debug, so may look into this too.

> >> - the missing Qubes Manager is a pain. - the 'replacement' in the
> >> task bar is small and buggy: the tooltip? like thing is randomly
> >> shirk to unusable. But too samll in general. I have 40 vm's right
> >> now.
> > 
> > What do you mean by "randomly shirk to unusable"? Can you provide
> > a screenshot?
> #2970
> 
> 
> > What do you mean? Domains widget is specifically there to show you 
> > VM status.
> 
> Can't see the networking stuff.
> The most important is (at least for me) the actual NetVM used by a Qube.

So, you switch netvm for VMs frequently? Doesn't it mean you should have
separate VMs, instead of switching one between two (or more) networks?

Anyway, adding such information to domains widget shouldn't be a big
problem. Just don't show it by default (see reasoning why dropping old
manager, in announcement post).

> >> - the 'new' Qubes firewall solution causing more confusions. -
> >> mixed iptables and nftables? why?
> > 
> > What do you mean by mixed? Setting for VMs are applied using
> > nftables if supported (Fedora), or iptables when not (Debian). Not
> > both.
> 
> the default "self defending rules" are Iptables based, the VM traffic
> forwarding rules are nftables based.

Ah I see.

> Custom firewall scripts now have to handle both.
> My opinion that there is no real need for nftables until it can really
> replace iptables. We are using just a really few rules here and the VM
> based chains achievable by iptables too.

The main reason for nftables is to simplify custom scripts. If you
have nftables, qubes-firewall no longer flush standard tables - it
register its own. This means you don't need to re-apply own rules every
time qubes-firewall change something. And you can register own tables
before or after qubes-firewall.
And in theory you can still use iptables for your custom rules.

> BTW:
> I plan to continue the L7 filtering thing I started to play with. Can
> you point the related documentation - if any - or at least the VM side
> code processing the Qubes firewall rules please?

It's here:
https://github.com/QubesOS/qubes-core-agent-linux/blob/master/qubesagent/firewall.py

I think you can extend one or both of those classes and use them instead
of default ones. Or submit a patch.
This code unfortunately do not have (yet?) nice interface to extend it
for other rule types.

> >> - even if Allow is the default policy I see a DROP rule at the
> >> end. Why? :o
> > 
> > To fail closed - if something goes wrong, there will be that DROP
> > rule at the end anyway.
> 
> :)
> It should be decided by the user, by selecting default policy.
> IMHO Qubes should not try to override the user decisions.

If you choose to have default action "allow", there will be appropriate
rule just before it.

> >> - the default login screen is just ugly. I know that this is not
> >> the first priority, and not even a technical issue. But new users
> >> will see that ugly thing first. So it's should be a Qubes skinned
> >> one. at least.
> > 
> > Hmm, I do see Qubes logo in the background there. Do you have
> > something different?
> 
> Nope, I see the qubes backround. :)
> 
> But still feels like a bare naked login screen.
> IMHO this should be just as important as the Qubes boot (splash) screen.

Which also have similar aesthetic.
Do you think about just some better background there, or some bigger
change?

- -- 
Best Regards,
Marek Marczykowski-Górecki
Invisible Things Lab
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
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Re: [qubes-users] Qubes OS 4.0 first release candidate (rc1) has been released!

[Zrubi]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

On 08/01/2017 01:02 PM, Marek Marczykowski-Górecki wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 01, 2017 at 11:25:11AM +0200, Zrubi wrote:

>> - The isntall process is really long. Not debugged jet but
>> the creating initramfs seems to be running forever. But at least
>> was successfull at the end :)
> 
> Is it just about initramfs and "post installation tasks" - compared
> to the whole installation time? There may be some bug causing
> initramfs being generated twice (or more...) - I think I've fixed
> something like this before, but maybe not all the places.
Yes, this is the case.
But have no time to install it again and again to identify the root
cause :(


> 
>> - the missing Qubes Manager is a pain. - the 'replacement' in the
>> task bar is small and buggy: the tooltip? like thing is randomly
>> shirk to unusable. But too samll in general. I have 40 vm's right
>> now.
> 
> What do you mean by "randomly shirk to unusable"? Can you provide
> a screenshot?
#2970


> What do you mean? Domains widget is specifically there to show you 
> VM status.

Can't see the networking stuff.
The most important is (at least for me) the actual NetVM used by a Qube.


>> - the 'new' Qubes firewall solution causing more confusions. -
>> mixed iptables and nftables? why?
> 
> What do you mean by mixed? Setting for VMs are applied using
> nftables if supported (Fedora), or iptables when not (Debian). Not
> both.

the default "self defending rules" are Iptables based, the VM traffic
forwarding rules are nftables based.

Custom firewall scripts now have to handle both.
My opinion that there is no real need for nftables until it can really
replace iptables. We are using just a really few rules here and the VM
based chains achievable by iptables too.

BTW:
I plan to continue the L7 filtering thing I started to play with. Can
you point the related documentation - if any - or at least the VM side
code processing the Qubes firewall rules please?

>> - even if Allow is the default policy I see a DROP rule at the
>> end. Why? :o
> 
> To fail closed - if something goes wrong, there will be that DROP
> rule at the end anyway.

:)
It should be decided by the user, by selecting default policy.
IMHO Qubes should not try to override the user decisions.

>> - the default login screen is just ugly. I know that this is not
>> the first priority, and not even a technical issue. But new users
>> will see that ugly thing first. So it's should be a Qubes skinned
>> one. at least.
> 
> Hmm, I do see Qubes logo in the background there. Do you have
> something different?

Nope, I see the qubes backround. :)

But still feels like a bare naked login screen.
IMHO this should be just as important as the Qubes boot (splash) screen.


- -- 
Zrubi
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Re: [qubes-users] Qubes OS 4.0 first release candidate (rc1) has been released!

[Foppe de Haan]

I would (also) appreciate having a GUI for the qubes-backup functionality, so 
we can easily pick/choose which VMs to restore.

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Re: [qubes-users] Qubes OS 4.0 first release candidate (rc1) has been released!

[Micah Lee]

I've finally got Qubes 4.0-rc1 booted! I've got a couple questions.

Without the VM Manager, is there a GUI way to delete VMs? I know you can
run "qvm-remove" from a dom0 terminal.

Is there a GUI way to start VMs without actually opening an application
in them? (I often configure stuff to autostart when the VM is started.)

I'm also noticing some strange USB VM stuff. On this computer I've opted
to make sys-net both my netvm and usbvm, and I've confirmed that sys-net
has my USB controller PCI devices attached.

By default, my sys-net uses memory balancing, even though it has the
warning message, "Dynamic memory balancing can result in some devices
not working!" Should I turn off memory balancing?

The devices systray applet thing for me lists these devices:

sys-firewall:1-1 QEMU_QEMU_USB_Tablet_42
sys-net:2-7 8087_07dc
sys-net:2-8 SunplusIT_INC._Integrated_Camera
dom0:mic Microphone

What is this qemu thing in sys-firewall? When I run lsusb in
sys-firewall I see two devices, "Adomax Technology Co., Ltd" and "Linux
Foundation 1.1 root hub". I confirm that sys-firewall doesn't have any
USB controller PCI devices. But even weirder, when I boot a different
AppVM, like personal, lsusb shows me the same USB devices, but it
doesn't appear in the Qubes devices systray applet.

And finally, when I plug in a USB device, the systray applet doesn't
seem to see it. I plugged in a Yubikey, and when I run qvm-usb in dom0
it displays:

sys-net:2-1 Yubico_Yubikey_4_OTP+U2F+CCID

And running lsusb in sys-net displays it as well. But the devices
dropdown doesn't list this.

Also, I noticed that qrexec clients now require an extra step. If I run
"qvm-copy-to-vm work example.txt" in my personal AppVM, the dom0 window
that pops up asks me to select the target ("work", in this case) before
clicking OK to allow it. This seems fine to me, and in fact I like how
clear it's being, but "work" isn't pre-filled in, so I have to manually
select it, or type it, each time, instead of just pressing enter.


Finally, pro tip: In xfce, and especially in Qubes, I find pressing
Alt-F3 and typing the name of a program much quicker than using the
start menu. If I want to open Firefox in the personal AppVM, I type
"personal:" and it shows me all the menu entries for personal, and
"personal: f" is enough to select Firefox by pressing enter.

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Re: [qubes-users] Qubes OS 4.0 first release candidate (rc1) has been released!

[Micah Lee]

On 07/31/2017 03:22 PM, Rusty Bird wrote:
> Micah Lee:
>> I just installed Qubes 4.0-rc1 on a Lenovo ThinkPad T440 which runs
>> Qubes 3.2 without a problem. After installing it, when I boot up, grub
>> works, but then as soon as Qubes starts to boot the computer reboots,
>> and I end up back in grub.
> 
> I ran into the same behavior on a T420. Removing iommu=no-igfx from
> the Xen command line fixed it. [1]

Thank you, this fixed it!

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Re: [qubes-users] Qubes OS 4.0 first release candidate (rc1) has been released!

[justinfhsu]

On Wednesday, August 2, 2017 at 7:58:24 AM UTC-4, PR wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> 
> 
> Am 02.08.2017 1:45 nachm. schrieb  :
> 
> On Monday, July 31, 2017 at 5:23:20 PM UTC-4, Micah Lee wrote:
> 
> > On 07/31/2017 04:43 AM, Marek Marczykowski-Górecki wrote:
> (...), when I boot up, grub
> 
> > works, but then as soon as Qubes starts to boot the computer reboots,
> 
> > and I end up back in grub.
> 
> 
> 
> Having the EXACT same issue with my T430s
> 
> 
> 
> Have you tried the suggestions from "Rusty Bird":
> 
> 
> I ran into the same behavior on a T420. Removing iommu=no-igfx from
> the Xen command line fixed it. [1]
> If that doesn't help, _adding_ console=vga should let you see what's
> going on.
> 
> 
> @codgedodger:
> Did this help in your case?
> 
> 
> Kind regards
> 
> 
> - PhR

I had this issue on my Thinkpad X230 with a fresh install of 4.0-rc1 and the 
fix let me boot, but, when I shutdown, the system hangs and when I hit escape 
on the shutdown screen, I see errors in device-mapper failing to remove ioctl 
on the VMs and then a bunch of the error "failed to write error node for 
backend/" for xen-pciback and vbd.

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Re: [qubes-users] Qubes OS 4.0 first release candidate (rc1) has been released!

['P R' via qubes-users]

Hello,

Am 02.08.2017 1:45 nachm. schrieb :

On Monday, July 31, 2017 at 5:23:20 PM UTC-4, Micah Lee wrote:
> On 07/31/2017 04:43 AM, Marek Marczykowski-Górecki wrote:
(...), when I boot up, grub
> works, but then as soon as Qubes starts to boot the computer reboots,
> and I end up back in grub.

Having the EXACT same issue with my T430s


Have you tried the suggestions from "Rusty Bird":

I ran into the same behavior on a T420. Removing iommu=no-igfx from
the Xen command line fixed it. [1]
If that doesn't help, _adding_ console=vga should let you see what's
going on.

@codgedodger:
Did this help in your case?

Kind regards

- PhR

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Re: [qubes-users] Qubes OS 4.0 first release candidate (rc1) has been released!

[Marek Marczykowski-Górecki]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

On Tue, Aug 01, 2017 at 12:35:04PM -0700, Foppe de Haan wrote:
> Question: if we install 4.0, then restore backups, should we consider 
> replacing pv template with hvm ones, and how would you advise going about 
> that? (If this will be addressed in one of the upcoming blog posts, I can of 
> course wait. :) )

The easiest thing to do is to switch restored VMs to use templates
installed with Qubes 4.0. Templates from 3.x should work too, even as
HVM. But some features may be missing.
We'll prepare instruction how to upgrade such templates, but it isn't
done yet.

- -- 
Best Regards,
Marek Marczykowski-Górecki
Invisible Things Lab
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
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Re: [qubes-users] Qubes OS 4.0 first release candidate (rc1) has been released!

[Foppe de Haan]

Question: if we install 4.0, then restore backups, should we consider replacing 
pv template with hvm ones, and how would you advise going about that? (If this 
will be addressed in one of the upcoming blog posts, I can of course wait. :) )

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Re: [qubes-users] Qubes OS 4.0 first release candidate (rc1) has been released!

[Rusty Bird]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

Jean-Philippe Ouellet:
> On Tue, Aug 1, 2017 at 7:02 AM, Rusty Bird  wrote:
> > Zrubi:
> >> So I would really appreciate some statement if Qubes will really drop
> >> KDE support. I can accept that, but then I not waste my time trying to
> >> make it work. Instead focusing to fix the XFCE issues I have ;)
> >>
> >> - the default login screen is just ugly. I know that this is not the
> >> first priority, and not even a technical issue. But new users will see
> >> that ugly thing first. So it's should be a Qubes skinned one. at least.
> >
> > Or, if the login screen isn't needed anymore (to switch between XFCE
> > and KDE), why not get rid of it entirely:
> >
> > # mkdir /etc/lightdm/lightdm.conf.d
> > # cat >>/etc/lightdm/lightdm.conf.d/99-autologin.conf < > [SeatDefaults]
> > autologin-user=USERNAME
> > END
> 
> Consider a briefly-unattended laptop protected by only a lock screen.
> 
> Normally the attacker would need a way to kill the X screensaver
> without killing the X session. Would the above make crashing the X
> session (and thus being dropped back to the display manager which
> auto-logs-in) sufficient to gain access?
> 
> If so, this sounds like a bad idea (or at least an argument for
> something like physlock).

Ah, I hadn't thought about that. I've been using physlock since
forever, if only to avoid seeing XScreenSaver's fonts...

Rusty
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Re: [qubes-users] Qubes OS 4.0 first release candidate (rc1) has been released!

[Jean-Philippe Ouellet]

On Tue, Aug 1, 2017 at 7:02 AM, Rusty Bird  wrote:
> Zrubi:
>> So I would really appreciate some statement if Qubes will really drop
>> KDE support. I can accept that, but then I not waste my time trying to
>> make it work. Instead focusing to fix the XFCE issues I have ;)
>>
>> - the default login screen is just ugly. I know that this is not the
>> first priority, and not even a technical issue. But new users will see
>> that ugly thing first. So it's should be a Qubes skinned one. at least.
>
> Or, if the login screen isn't needed anymore (to switch between XFCE
> and KDE), why not get rid of it entirely:
>
> # mkdir /etc/lightdm/lightdm.conf.d
> # cat >>/etc/lightdm/lightdm.conf.d/99-autologin.conf < [SeatDefaults]
> autologin-user=USERNAME
> END

Consider a briefly-unattended laptop protected by only a lock screen.

Normally the attacker would need a way to kill the X screensaver
without killing the X session. Would the above make crashing the X
session (and thus being dropped back to the display manager which
auto-logs-in) sufficient to gain access?

If so, this sounds like a bad idea (or at least an argument for
something like physlock).

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Re: [qubes-users] Qubes OS 4.0 first release candidate (rc1) has been released!

[Rusty Bird]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

Zrubi:
> So I would really appreciate some statement if Qubes will really drop
> KDE support. I can accept that, but then I not waste my time trying to
> make it work. Instead focusing to fix the XFCE issues I have ;)
> 
> - the default login screen is just ugly. I know that this is not the
> first priority, and not even a technical issue. But new users will see
> that ugly thing first. So it's should be a Qubes skinned one. at least.

Or, if the login screen isn't needed anymore (to switch between XFCE
and KDE), why not get rid of it entirely:

# mkdir /etc/lightdm/lightdm.conf.d
# cat >>/etc/lightdm/lightdm.conf.d/99-autologin.conf 

Re: [qubes-users] Qubes OS 4.0 first release candidate (rc1) has been released!

[Marek Marczykowski-Górecki]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

On Tue, Aug 01, 2017 at 11:25:11AM +0200, Zrubi wrote:
> On 07/31/2017 01:43 PM, Marek Marczykowski-Górecki wrote:
> > https://www.qubes-os.org/news/2017/07/31/qubes-40-rc1/
> 
> My Very First Impressions:
> 
> - the "test this media & install Qubes" is hanging forever on my T450.
> Before the graphical "qubes loader screen", I see some strange error
> messages. Need to be fast to capture however. Was not lucky to get it.

I've seen some problems with USB 3.0 on T460p. Basically it throws a lot
of I/O errors - sometimes during boot, sometimes in the middle of
installation. Using USB 2.0 stick, or USB 2.0 hub (or just cable)
helped.

> - The isntall process is really long.
> Not debugged jet but the creating initramfs seems to be running forever.
> But at least was successfull at the end :)

Is it just about initramfs and "post installation tasks" - compared to
the whole installation time? There may be some bug causing initramfs
being generated twice (or more...) - I think I've fixed something like
this before, but maybe not all the places. If you think it's important,
please open issue on github.

> - the missing Qubes Manager is a pain.
> - the 'replacement' in the task bar is small and buggy:
>the tooltip? like thing is randomly shirk to unusable. But too
> samll in general. I have 40 vm's right now.

What do you mean by "randomly shirk to unusable"? Can you provide a
screenshot?

> - the vm setting windows is the old one, no new features are usable
> from that GUI :(

Sadly that's true. Working on major features (like Admin API) took much
more time than anticipated, and we didn't want to delay 4.0 any further.
In practice there are not so much missing things, that are useful for
normal usage. I'd say this list:
 - booting from external disk (useful to install windows)
 - firewall rules
 - network settings (custom IP, etc)
 - allow starting DispVM out of this AppVM

I've created this ticket to track it:
https://github.com/QubesOS/qubes-issues/issues/2949

If you think some more will be useful, please comment there.

> - memory balancing are enabled on PCI asigned VM's.

In practice it is not, because VM itself have it disabled if have some
PCI device. So the issue is reporting it in GUI.

> - network manager applet is (still?) not show on first start.
> need to restart the sys-net VM to shown.
>
> - still only 8 available colors for the VM's. :(((
> Again: I have 40 of them.

Most backend code to support more labels is done. The (important!)
missing part is window manager support. AFAIR currently only awesome and
xfce4 generate colorful borders dynamically, other window managers
(especially KDE) have it hardcoded.

If you want to try, take a look here:
https://www.qubes-os.org/doc/admin-api/
Then use qubesd-query tool to issue those API calls. For example:
echo -n 0x00 | qubesd-query dom0 admin.label.Create dom0 cyan

(testing this, I've found you need to kill `qvm-start-gui --all --watch`
process and start it again after creating label)

> - no VM status GUI. :(
> The old Qubes manager would be fine till a the new tools(?) not ready
> for use.

What do you mean? Domains widget is specifically there to show you
VM status.

> - the 'new' Qubes firewall solution causing more confusions.
>   - mixed iptables and nftables? why?

What do you mean by mixed? Setting for VMs are applied using nftables if
supported (Fedora), or iptables when not (Debian). Not both.

>   - the old GUI not allow to use the new features.
>   - even if Allow is the default policy I see a DROP rule at the end.
>   Why? :o

To fail closed - if something goes wrong, there will be that DROP rule
at the end anyway.

> - qubes-hcl-report is not included.
> just tested it (the latest version from github) and it working with
> 4.0 out of the box.

Oh, I don't know how it happened. Will fix it shortly.

> - no KDE group available
> Maybe the same reason with the recent 3.2?

Probably, I will look into it shortly.

> Probably I'm the last KDE user under Qubes - and I just started to
> migrate to XFCE because of the unresolved issues with KDE since the
> 3.2 release. And see no progress in 4.0
> 
> So I would really appreciate some statement if Qubes will really drop
> KDE support. I can accept that, but then I not waste my time trying to
> make it work. Instead focusing to fix the XFCE issues I have ;)

I think we can say that KDE migrated from "ITL supported" to "community
supported". OTOH Fedora 25 in dom0 brings also updated KDE, so maybe
some issues are fixed.

> - the default login screen is just ugly. I know that this is not the
> first priority, and not even a technical issue. But new users will see
> that ugly thing first. So it's should be a Qubes skinned one. at least.

Hmm, I do see Qubes logo in the background there. Do you have something
different?

Thanks for detailed report/review, we really appreciate it!
We receive a lot of emails, so if there is some actionable 

Re: [qubes-users] Qubes OS 4.0 first release candidate (rc1) has been released!

[Zrubi]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

On 07/31/2017 01:43 PM, Marek Marczykowski-Górecki wrote:
> https://www.qubes-os.org/news/2017/07/31/qubes-40-rc1/

My Very First Impressions:

- - the "test this media & install Qubes" is hanging forever on my T450.
Before the graphical "qubes loader screen", I see some strange error
messages. Need to be fast to capture however. Was not lucky to get it.

- - The isntall process is really long.
Not debugged jet but the creating initramfs seems to be running forever.
But at least was successfull at the end :)

- - the missing Qubes Manager is a pain.
- - the 'replacement' in the task bar is small and buggy:
   the tooltip? like thing is randomly shirk to unusable. But too
samll in general. I have 40 vm's right now.

- - the vm setting windows is the old one, no new features are usable
from that GUI :(

- - memory balancing are enabled on PCI asigned VM's.

- - network manager applet is (still?) not show on first start.
need to restart the sys-net VM to shown.


- - still only 8 available colors for the VM's. :(((
Again: I have 40 of them.

- - no VM status GUI. :(
The old Qubes manager would be fine till a the new tools(?) not ready
for use.

- - the 'new' Qubes firewall solution causing more confusions.
  - mixed iptables and nftables? why?
  - the old GUI not allow to use the new features.
  - even if Allow is the default policy I see a DROP rule at the end.
  Why? :o

- - qubes-hcl-report is not included.
just tested it (the latest version from github) and it working with
4.0 out of the box.

- - no KDE group available
Maybe the same reason with the recent 3.2?
Probably I'm the last KDE user under Qubes - and I just started to
migrate to XFCE because of the unresolved issues with KDE since the
3.2 release. And see no progress in 4.0

So I would really appreciate some statement if Qubes will really drop
KDE support. I can accept that, but then I not waste my time trying to
make it work. Instead focusing to fix the XFCE issues I have ;)

- - the default login screen is just ugly. I know that this is not the
first priority, and not even a technical issue. But new users will see
that ugly thing first. So it's should be a Qubes skinned one. at least.


- -- 
Zrubi
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Re: [qubes-users] Qubes OS 4.0 first release candidate (rc1) has been released!

[lokedhs]

On Tuesday, 1 August 2017 13:19:21 UTC+8, Holger Levsen  wrote:

> so far so very good. i'm curious whether this will also be the case with qubes
> 3.2.1 and a 4.9 kernel (so far only tried with the older 4.8 one from the
> qubes repos…)
> 
> (but then, see the other mail on this list about my problems installing the
> 4.9 kernel on qubes 3.2…)

I'm having hangs on resume with kernel 4.9 on a Latitude E7470. That suggests 
to me that you'll probably have the same problem.

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Re: [qubes-users] Qubes OS 4.0 first release candidate (rc1) has been released!

[Holger Levsen]

On Mon, Jul 31, 2017 at 09:17:43PM +, Holger Levsen wrote:
> Now I get another error OTOH, but I'll try a fresh reinstallation of 4.0rc1 
> first, before
> reporting that exact error…

whoohooo - that fresh installation on an x260 for the first time showed
reliable suspend+resumes, I've done 42 suspends of the machine (which, granted,
was not doing anything) and it successfully resumed 42 times \o/

which to me is quite very amazing, running qubes 3.2 I'd estimate the success
rate rather to be 60% or so, maybe 70%… (while the same machine running 
Debian 8 also had 99.x% successful resumes…)

so far so very good. i'm curious whether this will also be the case with qubes
3.2.1 and a 4.9 kernel (so far only tried with the older 4.8 one from the
qubes repos…)

(but then, see the other mail on this list about my problems installing the
4.9 kernel on qubes 3.2…)

OTOH, wireless didnt work after a few resumes (qubes 4.0rc1), i assume this 
can be fixed by unloading+reloading the module, but…

I'm happy as long as resume works.


-- 
cheers,
Holger, who really did those 42 suspends and resumes…

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Re: [qubes-users] Qubes OS 4.0 first release candidate (rc1) has been released!

[Rusty Bird]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

Micah Lee:
> I just installed Qubes 4.0-rc1 on a Lenovo ThinkPad T440 which runs
> Qubes 3.2 without a problem. After installing it, when I boot up, grub
> works, but then as soon as Qubes starts to boot the computer reboots,
> and I end up back in grub.

I ran into the same behavior on a T420. Removing iommu=no-igfx from
the Xen command line fixed it. [1]

If that doesn't help, _adding_ console=vga should let you see what's
going on.

Rusty


1. https://github.com/QubesOS/qubes-issues/issues/2841#issuecomment-318172669
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Re: [qubes-users] Qubes OS 4.0 first release candidate (rc1) has been released!

[Foppe de Haan]

On Monday, July 31, 2017 at 11:23:20 PM UTC+2, Micah Lee wrote:
> On 07/31/2017 04:43 AM, Marek Marczykowski-Górecki wrote:
> > Hello,
> > 
> > We have just released Qubes 4.0-rc1:
> > 
> > https://www.qubes-os.org/news/2017/07/31/qubes-40-rc1/
> 
> I just installed Qubes 4.0-rc1 on a Lenovo ThinkPad T440 which runs
> Qubes 3.2 without a problem. After installing it, when I boot up, grub
> works, but then as soon as Qubes starts to boot the computer reboots,
> and I end up back in grub.
> 
> Any ideas on how to start troubleshooting?

start by pressing esc to switch to text boot. Maybe get a camera so you can 
capture the error msg before reboot. If that doesn't provide enough info, you 
can try enabling debugging in the boot options by adding the relevant parameter.

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Re: [qubes-users] Qubes OS 4.0 first release candidate (rc1) has been released!

[Micah Lee]

On 07/31/2017 04:43 AM, Marek Marczykowski-Górecki wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> We have just released Qubes 4.0-rc1:
> 
> https://www.qubes-os.org/news/2017/07/31/qubes-40-rc1/

I just installed Qubes 4.0-rc1 on a Lenovo ThinkPad T440 which runs
Qubes 3.2 without a problem. After installing it, when I boot up, grub
works, but then as soon as Qubes starts to boot the computer reboots,
and I end up back in grub.

Any ideas on how to start troubleshooting?

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Re: [qubes-users] Qubes OS 4.0 first release candidate (rc1) has been released!

[Holger Levsen]

On Mon, Jul 31, 2017 at 10:46:19PM +0200, Marek Marczykowski-Górecki wrote:
> Do you have VT-x enabled in BIOS?

doh, indeed it was disabled. (Which slightly puzzles me as I had running Qubes 
3.2 running
on this machine before…)

Now I get another error OTOH, but I'll try a fresh reinstallation of 4.0rc1 
first, before
reporting that exact error…

Thanks!
 

-- 
cheers,
Holger

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Re: [qubes-users] Qubes OS 4.0 first release candidate (rc1) has been released!

[Marek Marczykowski-Górecki]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

On Mon, Jul 31, 2017 at 08:42:51PM +, Holger Levsen wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 31, 2017 at 01:43:20PM +0200, Marek Marczykowski-Górecki wrote:
> > We have just released Qubes 4.0-rc1:
> 
> awesome!
> 
> I've installed it on a lenovo x260 and upon the end of the installation I had 
> some 
> error concerning sys-firewall stating "could not find capabilities for 
> arch=x86_64",
> despite that the installation seemed successful. But then when I logged into 
> the
> installed system and ran "qvm-run personal xterm" I got the same:
> 
> $ qvm-run personal xterm
> Running 'xterm' on personal
> personal: Start failed: invalid argument: could not find capabilities for 
> arch=x86_64
> 
> IOW: this doesnt work for me at all. Happy to test+debug further though if 
> someone
> has an idea what to do…

Do you have VT-x enabled in BIOS?

- -- 
Best Regards,
Marek Marczykowski-Górecki
Invisible Things Lab
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
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Re: [qubes-users] Qubes OS 4.0 first release candidate (rc1) has been released!

[Holger Levsen]

On Mon, Jul 31, 2017 at 01:43:20PM +0200, Marek Marczykowski-Górecki wrote:
> We have just released Qubes 4.0-rc1:

awesome!

I've installed it on a lenovo x260 and upon the end of the installation I had 
some 
error concerning sys-firewall stating "could not find capabilities for 
arch=x86_64",
despite that the installation seemed successful. But then when I logged into the
installed system and ran "qvm-run personal xterm" I got the same:

$ qvm-run personal xterm
Running 'xterm' on personal
personal: Start failed: invalid argument: could not find capabilities for 
arch=x86_64

IOW: this doesnt work for me at all. Happy to test+debug further though if 
someone
has an idea what to do…


-- 
cheers,
Holger

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Re: [qubes-users] Qubes OS 4.0 first release candidate (rc1) has been released!

[Eva Star]

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Very good news, thanks :)

On 07/31/2017 02:43 PM, Marek Marczykowski-Górecki wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> We have just released Qubes 4.0-rc1:
> 
> https://www.qubes-os.org/news/2017/07/31/qubes-40-rc1/
> 
> 

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Regards
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[qubes-users] Qubes OS 4.0 first release candidate (rc1) has been released!

[Marek Marczykowski-Górecki]

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Hello,

We have just released Qubes 4.0-rc1:

https://www.qubes-os.org/news/2017/07/31/qubes-40-rc1/

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Best Regards,
Marek Marczykowski-Górecki
Invisible Things Lab
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
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