Re: [qubes-users] Re: HCL - Lenovo Thinkpad X1 Carbon 4th gen (20FB)

[Jean-Philippe Ouellet]

New HCL attached.

No remaining complaints about this laptop (well... aside from being
too new for coreboot). It is entirely usable as a Qubes machine.

I get about 6 hours battery life with a workload that involves
starting many VMs frequently (lots of DispVM starting seems to be the
largest drain).

Hopefully one day High-DPI support in linux in general will improve
and I can take advantage of my whole screen. For now I'm running in
globally-reduced resolution (in dom0) due to inconsistent scaling
across apps and VMs. This means less pixels to software-render in VMs
anyway, which is nice for performance, power consumption, and screen
tearing.

I still have iwlmvm & iwlwifi in my sys-net's
/rw/config/suspend-module-blacklist. Haven't tested if it's still
necessary since the drivers are reloaded faster than I can type my
screen-unlock password anyway, so in practice I don't care :)

On Tue, Feb 28, 2017 at 1:29 AM, Jean-Philippe Ouellet  wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 at 3:42 PM, Chris Laprise  wrote:
>> On 02/27/2017 03:11 PM, Holger Levsen wrote:
>>> On Sun, Feb 26, 2017 at 02:56:53PM -0500, Jean-Philippe Ouellet wrote:
 I still have issues with suspend/resume. Sometimes it fails to resume,
 and sometimes it fails to suspend (leading to a hot backpack and/or
 quickly dead battery).
>>>
>>> what are your exact symptoms? mine are: suspend works nicely, but no
>>> resume
>>> (no reaction at all in fact) once I press the keys to wake up my machine,
>>> which is a X260, also skylake, also 4.8.12 + xen 4.6.4.
>>>
>>> -> this doesnt happen always, but around 20% of the time or so. Pretty
>>> often.
>
> It often seems to suspend correctly (backlight turns off, fans turn
> off, power consumption minimal (does not get hot over time), and power
> button & top-cover LEDs start pulsing) but does not wake on any input
> (keyboard, touchpad, or pushing the power button). In order to recover
> from this state I must press and hold the power button for several
> (~3-5?) seconds. Interestingly, pressing the power button again
> appears to start the normal power-on sequence (keyboard flashes, power
> button led turns solid-on, etc.) but does not actually boot (IIRC
> hangs at black screen after lenovo logo splash or something), and I
> need to hold it an additional time (IIRC turning off after ~1 second)
> and turn it on again. It always boots fine this 2nd time. This happens
> about once a day.
>
> Very occasionally (~ once a week) it will fail to suspend. I close the
> laptop, and the backlight turns off and stops responding to input, but
> the power status LED on the outside of the lid stays solid red (does
> not begin pulsating), the fans stay on, and will get hot if put in a
> backpack.

Suspend/resume was fixed at some point by a BIOS update. Not one of
the ones where they mentioned sleep/suspend/resume in the release
notes though...

The latest BIOS hashes I observe are:
$ sha256sum n1*17*
4b5488be128d9c022cd4924476d48e38dd55c38809db0f3a6c06f1a2d2ad0217  n1fuj17w.exe
918c836905db7709433b4dc03eddcbb04ccb8773f31f5b22b5b92388b56a3002  n1fuj17w.txt
5e5f9cfec0dcb299a033be0b4006af8697045876c4ef18a34716b894c48b917b  n1fur17w.iso
1dcdf1ffd2cd30be225db49e8210de2dabba32c5aaf3179a89e3d8f0cca61f3a  n1fur17w.txt

Obtained from:
https://download.lenovo.com/pccbbs/mobiles/n1fu{r{01..17}w.{iso,txt},j{01..17}w.{exe,txt}}

Downloaded from multiple network positions over multiple days with
matching hashes.

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Qubes-HCL-LENOVO-20FBCTO1WW-20170404-001900.yml
Description: application/yaml

Re: [qubes-users] Re: HCL - Lenovo Thinkpad X1 Carbon 4th gen (20FB)

[Holger Levsen]

On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 at 03:42:51PM -0500, Chris Laprise wrote:
> Do either of you use anti-evil-maid?

not yet.


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Re: [qubes-users] Re: HCL - Lenovo Thinkpad X1 Carbon 4th gen (20FB)

[Jean-Philippe Ouellet]

On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 at 3:42 PM, Chris Laprise  wrote:
> On 02/27/2017 03:11 PM, Holger Levsen wrote:
>> On Sun, Feb 26, 2017 at 02:56:53PM -0500, Jean-Philippe Ouellet wrote:
>>> I still have issues with suspend/resume. Sometimes it fails to resume,
>>> and sometimes it fails to suspend (leading to a hot backpack and/or
>>> quickly dead battery).
>>
>> what are your exact symptoms? mine are: suspend works nicely, but no
>> resume
>> (no reaction at all in fact) once I press the keys to wake up my machine,
>> which is a X260, also skylake, also 4.8.12 + xen 4.6.4.
>>
>> -> this doesnt happen always, but around 20% of the time or so. Pretty
>> often.

It often seems to suspend correctly (backlight turns off, fans turn
off, power consumption minimal (does not get hot over time), and power
button & top-cover LEDs start pulsing) but does not wake on any input
(keyboard, touchpad, or pushing the power button). In order to recover
from this state I must press and hold the power button for several
(~3-5?) seconds. Interestingly, pressing the power button again
appears to start the normal power-on sequence (keyboard flashes, power
button led turns solid-on, etc.) but does not actually boot (IIRC
hangs at black screen after lenovo logo splash or something), and I
need to hold it an additional time (IIRC turning off after ~1 second)
and turn it on again. It always boots fine this 2nd time. This happens
about once a day.

Very occasionally (~ once a week) it will fail to suspend. I close the
laptop, and the backlight turns off and stops responding to input, but
the power status LED on the outside of the lid stays solid red (does
not begin pulsating), the fans stay on, and will get hot if put in a
backpack.

>> I think we should file an issue in the "real" tracker… (or is there one
>> already? I think I tried searching for one, but didnt fine any…)

Not sure where you mean. kernel.org? xenproject.org? qubes-issues?

>> I'd also be glad to try a 4.9 or 4.10 based kernel…

Yeah... I've been meaning to get around to building one, but... free time :(
Same for investigating xen 4.8.

> Do either of you use anti-evil-maid? That, with recent versions of Xen,
> seems to be one of the triggers for this behavior.

I boot this machine via EFI. I am not aware of ever having gotten
legacy booting to work on this hardware (which is required for AEM
[1]).

[1]: 
https://github.com/QubesOS/qubes-antievilmaid/commit/4264f113b85085d20e4d8cacc5d2a0ae196af1ed

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Re: [qubes-users] Re: HCL - Lenovo Thinkpad X1 Carbon 4th gen (20FB)

[Chris Laprise]

On 02/27/2017 03:11 PM, Holger Levsen wrote:

On Sun, Feb 26, 2017 at 02:56:53PM -0500, Jean-Philippe Ouellet wrote:

In the interest of maximizing list archive utility, I'm attaching a
new HCL here (bumped kernel to 4.8.12-12 & xen to 4.6.4).

I still have issues with suspend/resume. Sometimes it fails to resume,
and sometimes it fails to suspend (leading to a hot backpack and/or
quickly dead battery).

what are your exact symptoms? mine are: suspend works nicely, but no resume
(no reaction at all in fact) once I press the keys to wake up my machine,
which is a X260, also skylake, also 4.8.12 + xen 4.6.4.

-> this doesnt happen always, but around 20% of the time or so. Pretty often.

I think we should file an issue in the "real" tracker… (or is there one
already? I think I tried searching for one, but didnt fine any…)

I'd also be glad to try a 4.9 or 4.10 based kernel…



Do either of you use anti-evil-maid? That, with recent versions of Xen, 
seems to be one of the triggers for this behavior.


Chris

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Re: [qubes-users] Re: HCL - Lenovo Thinkpad X1 Carbon 4th gen (20FB)

[Holger Levsen]

On Sun, Feb 26, 2017 at 02:56:53PM -0500, Jean-Philippe Ouellet wrote:
> In the interest of maximizing list archive utility, I'm attaching a
> new HCL here (bumped kernel to 4.8.12-12 & xen to 4.6.4).
> 
> I still have issues with suspend/resume. Sometimes it fails to resume,
> and sometimes it fails to suspend (leading to a hot backpack and/or
> quickly dead battery).

what are your exact symptoms? mine are: suspend works nicely, but no resume
(no reaction at all in fact) once I press the keys to wake up my machine,
which is a X260, also skylake, also 4.8.12 + xen 4.6.4.

-> this doesnt happen always, but around 20% of the time or so. Pretty often.

I think we should file an issue in the "real" tracker… (or is there one
already? I think I tried searching for one, but didnt fine any…)

I'd also be glad to try a 4.9 or 4.10 based kernel…


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cheers,
Holger

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[qubes-users] Re: HCL - Lenovo Thinkpad X1 Carbon 4th gen (20FB)

[Jean-Philippe Ouellet]

In the interest of maximizing list archive utility, I'm attaching a
new HCL here (bumped kernel to 4.8.12-12 & xen to 4.6.4).

I still have issues with suspend/resume. Sometimes it fails to resume,
and sometimes it fails to suspend (leading to a hot backpack and/or
quickly dead battery).

There is now another HCL of the same laptop here [1] which claims that
kernel 4.8.12-12 fixes the suspend-resume issues, but this has not
been the case for me.

[1]: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/qubes-users/kLlBahlTRK0/rInkUwa0FAAJ

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Qubes-HCL-LENOVO-20FBCTO1WW-20170226-144830.yml
Description: application/yaml

Re: [qubes-users] Re: HCL - Lenovo Thinkpad X1 Carbon 4th gen (20FB)

[Marek Marczykowski-Górecki]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

- -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

On Tue, Nov 15, 2016 at 02:47:29AM -0500, Jean-Philippe Ouellet wrote:
> On Mon, Nov 14, 2016 at 4:16 PM, Marek Marczykowski-Górecki
>  wrote:
> > You can temporarily set sys-firewall netvm to none. This will allow you
> > to shutdown/restart sys-net without consequences. Remember to change
> > sys-firewall netvm back to sys-net afterwards.
> 
> Good to know! I wish I'd thought of that earlier :)
> 
> >> Curiously, the wireless didn't hang while i had the 4.4 kernel in
> >> dom0, and now it hangs with 4.8 in dom0 and either 4.4 OR 4.8 in
> >> sys-net. This does not make sense to me, but it is indeed what I have
> >> observed. Perhaps it was also failing before and I just never noticed
> >> because the whole machine would hang so often.
> >
> > I'd guess the later... When it hangs, does the suspend before takes
> > usual not-so-long time, or is significantly longer?
> 
> Assuming you mean "when the wireless card attached to sys-net appears
> to hang, does immediately prior overall system resume appear to take
> longer?" then I have not noticed that to be the case. I will try to be
> more aware of that in the future.
> 
> What do you suspect that makes you ask this?

When suspending the system, dom0 ask each VM having any PCI device to
suspend itself (properly suspending the device etc). But there is a
timeout (AFAIR 30s) after which VM is simply paused. In that case, the
device/driver after resume most likely will be confused... In some cases
it reset the device and work just fine, in other cases driver reload is
needed, or even VM restart.

- - -- 
Best Regards,
Marek Marczykowski-Górecki
Invisible Things Lab
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
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Re: [qubes-users] Re: HCL - Lenovo Thinkpad X1 Carbon 4th gen (20FB)

[Jean-Philippe Ouellet]

On Mon, Nov 14, 2016 at 4:16 PM, Marek Marczykowski-Górecki
 wrote:
> You can temporarily set sys-firewall netvm to none. This will allow you
> to shutdown/restart sys-net without consequences. Remember to change
> sys-firewall netvm back to sys-net afterwards.

Good to know! I wish I'd thought of that earlier :)

>> Curiously, the wireless didn't hang while i had the 4.4 kernel in
>> dom0, and now it hangs with 4.8 in dom0 and either 4.4 OR 4.8 in
>> sys-net. This does not make sense to me, but it is indeed what I have
>> observed. Perhaps it was also failing before and I just never noticed
>> because the whole machine would hang so often.
>
> I'd guess the later... When it hangs, does the suspend before takes
> usual not-so-long time, or is significantly longer?

Assuming you mean "when the wireless card attached to sys-net appears
to hang, does immediately prior overall system resume appear to take
longer?" then I have not noticed that to be the case. I will try to be
more aware of that in the future.

What do you suspect that makes you ask this?

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Re: [qubes-users] Re: HCL - Lenovo Thinkpad X1 Carbon 4th gen (20FB)

[Jean-Philippe Ouellet]

On Mon, Nov 14, 2016 at 2:02 AM, Jean-Philippe Ouellet  wrote:
> kernel-4.8.7-11 from qubes-dom0-testing

Err, that should be qubes-dom0-unstable.

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Re: [qubes-users] Re: HCL - Lenovo Thinkpad X1 Carbon 4th gen (20FB)

[Jean-Philippe Ouellet]

tl;dr - kernel-4.8.7-11   +1 from me!

On Thu, Oct 13, 2016 at 1:20 AM, Jean-Philippe Ouellet  wrote:
> The laptop fails to resume about once a day and requires a
> hold-the-power-button reset
> I'm hoping that newer kernels fix this (dom0 currently on 4.4.14-11),

Since last Friday (~3 days) I've been on kernel-4.8.7-11 from
qubes-dom0-testing with only a single full-fan hang while attempting
to resume (not the usual failure mode, and *much* less frequent), as
opposed to the several-per-day just-dead hangs I was consistently
experiencing before, so... progress! :)

Wireless[1] now sometimes fails to come back after resume with this in
the dmesg:
Freezing user space processes ... (elapsed 0.001 seconds) done.
Freezing remaining freezable tasks ... (elapsed 0.001 seconds) done.
PM: freeze of devices complete after 0.090 msecs
suspending xenstore...
PM: late freeze of devices complete after 0.053 msecs
PM: noirq freeze of devices complete after 21.827 msecs
xen:grant_table: Grant tables using version 1 layout
PM: noirq thaw of devices complete after 0.648 msecs
PM: early thaw of devices complete after 0.089 msecs
PM: thaw of devices complete after 0.453 msecs
Restarting tasks ... done.
IPv6: ADDRCONF(NETDEV_UP): wlp0s0: link is not ready
iwlwifi :00:00.0: L1 Enabled - LTR Enabled
iwlwifi :00:00.0: L1 Enabled - LTR Enabled
iwlwifi :00:00.0: Failed to load firmware chunk!
iwlwifi :00:00.0: Could not load the [0] uCode section
iwlwifi :00:00.0: Failed to start INIT ucode: -110
iwlwifi :00:00.0: Failed to run INIT ucode: -110
iwlwifi :00:00.0: L1 Enabled - LTR Enabled
iwlwifi :00:00.0: L1 Enabled - LTR Enabled
iwlwifi :00:00.0: Failed to load firmware chunk!
iwlwifi :00:00.0: Could not load the [0] uCode section
iwlwifi :00:00.0: Failed to start INIT ucode: -110
iwlwifi :00:00.0: Failed to run INIT ucode: -110


Rebooting sys-net (so far) reliably makes it work again (and man... I
really wish there were some way to restart it without shutting
everything else down first - it'd be awesome if sys-firewall would
gracefully re-establish whatever it needs. idk what that would be
exactly, or what the challenges are - i haven't looked under the hood
of qubes networking yet).

Curiously, the wireless didn't hang while i had the 4.4 kernel in
dom0, and now it hangs with 4.8 in dom0 and either 4.4 OR 4.8 in
sys-net. This does not make sense to me, but it is indeed what I have
observed. Perhaps it was also failing before and I just never noticed
because the whole machine would hang so often.

[1]: lspci => 00:00.0 Network controller: Intel Corporation Wireless
8260 (rev 3a)

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Re: [qubes-users] Re: HCL - Lenovo Thinkpad X1 Carbon 4th gen (20FB)

[Jean-Philippe Ouellet]

Also, here are the hashes of the files I used to update my BIOS to
1.18 without ever booting windows following the procedure described
here: 
http://www.floccinaucinihilipilification.net/blog/2011/10/2/updating-the-bios-of-a-thinkpad-x220-using-linux.html

$ sha256sum geteltorito.pl x1carbon-bios-1.18/*
378a6305edb9397978e60b7908a85dd8c2546f2808cb845552d5e4a8ba9baab3  geteltorito.pl
0e13111e41f0ae79c0941865ee9647a19b698368ae71d1fca81f35a837463b85
x1carbon-bios-1.18/n1fuj12w.exe
c10ed88917a7f8779059a07e9f517b925a2ba714040518f019293728bbe4b0eb
x1carbon-bios-1.18/n1fuj12w.txt
e15fa987b0285254519cfb755667d7174374c75b1323343f69f9fc0670bc875f
x1carbon-bios-1.18/n1fur12w-extracted.img
eb08c3723293d82dd5f0f953de16d7f995b70b4abc6c7ab9144b620941a658f8
x1carbon-bios-1.18/n1fur12w.iso
bebf6bce6ff99ed66737f6fbad958f949a06b3df7173941ff6062f76c7c2f8e3
x1carbon-bios-1.18/n1fur12w.txt

If you get an x1 and yours differ I would *really* like to know!

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Re: [qubes-users] Re: HCL - Lenovo Thinkpad X1 Carbon 4th gen (20FB)

[Jean-Philippe Ouellet]

If you're going to get one, I'd say definitely go with 16gb ram, and
know that NVMe vs traditional SSDs appear to be equally well
supported.

The idea of a WWAN module (w/ accompanying free-to-do-whatever
baseband) in a laptop is a scary proposition and highly
un-recommended, and so are the vPro-labeled NICs (because AMT) but it
appears you can't get the model with the fastest processor without
one. You can "permanently disable AMT" via a bios option, but in
reality who knows if that actually means anything.

A note about placing orders: be sure that you haven't inadvertently
selected a back-ordered component. The order page lead time should say
5-7 days. If it says 10-12 days, they're lying, that's just their
hard-coded "longer than 5-7 days" time. I had a >1 month delay due to
the disk (which I only found out by contacting support after 12 days
and asking wtf was up), and I ended up canceling my order and placing
a new one with different components. (Or perhaps my delays were simply
because the [A-Z]{3} interdiction and implanting facility had a
backlog of work to do... who knows ^_^)

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Re: [qubes-users] Re: HCL - Lenovo Thinkpad X1 Carbon 4th gen (20FB)

[Jean-Philippe Ouellet]

On Wed, Oct 12, 2016 at 8:17 PM,   wrote:
> Can you let me know how things function under 3.2? Any improvements? I am 
> keen to get the X1 4th generation but I want to make sure it has full Qubes 
> compatibility since that will be it's primary purpose.

3.2 is no different from 3.2-rc3 from an x1 hardware-support perspective.

Some things I've discovered since my original post:

The laptop fails to resume about once a day and requires a
hold-the-power-button reset. So far this has not caused any corruption
that I've noticed (perhaps I'm just lucky) and has been only mildly
annoying (or more-than-mildly annoying when forced to re-type my disk
password in a not-so-private environment as a side-effect of
rebooting).

I'm hoping that newer kernels fix this (dom0 currently on 4.4.14-11),
but I have yet to get around to actually trying it. Unfortunately I
have more pressing things to work on than rebasing the qubes kernel
patches and rebooting all day. Perhaps I'll get around to it some
weekend in the not-so-distant future if somebody doesn't beat me to
it...

Battery life for normal browsing, text editing, and the occasional
compile seems to be roughly 6-8 hours.

The super-high-dpi screen IMO turned out to actually be rather
annoying due to insufficient maturity of high-dpi support and my eyes
not having built-in magnifying glasses, so I'm running it at
globally-reduced resolution (scaled w/ xrandr in dom0). That's kinda
lame, but oh well.

Overall I would recommend it. It's been my primary machine for the
past few weeks. Support is good enough right now, and will only
improve with time.

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[qubes-users] Re: HCL - Lenovo Thinkpad X1 Carbon 4th gen (20FB)

[equi488]

Can you let me know how things function under 3.2? Any improvements? I am keen 
to get the X1 4th generation but I want to make sure it has full Qubes 
compatibility since that will be it's primary purpose. 

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