Re: [qubes-users] Re: Qubes not shutting down

2016-11-25 Thread raahelps
On Thursday, November 24, 2016 at 3:11:15 PM UTC-5, Loren Rogers wrote:
> On 11/24/2016 01:39 PM, Loren Rogers wrote:
> >
> >
> > On 11/24/2016 03:57 AM, Pawel Debski wrote:
> >> W dniu środa, 23 listopada 2016 00:34:09 UTC+1 użytkownik Drew White 
> >> napisał:
> >>> On Tuesday, 22 November 2016 13:41:30 UTC+11, Loren Rogers  wrote:
>  On 11/21/2016 06:24 PM, Drew White wrote:
> > On Tuesday, 22 November 2016 06:04:43 UTC+11, Loren Rogers  wrote:
> >> On 11/21/2016 11:04 AM, Loren Rogers wrote:
> >>> On 11/21/2016 12:42 AM, Drew White wrote:
>  On Sunday, 20 November 2016 04:56:03 UTC+11, Loren Rogers  wrote:
> > Another correlation I've noticed is that my machine randomly 
> > shuts
> > itself down without warning when I'm browsing in the 
> > Anon-Whonix VM. It
> > seems that simply having the Whonix browser open causes the 
> > problem.
> > I've not been able to pin down an exact cause, but it seems to 
> > happen
> > after about 5-20min. When this happens, the machine sometimes 
> > ends
> > up in
> > a hung state (black screen) at the end of the shutdown process.
> >
> > I've also noticed that the fan speeds up right at it starts to
> > shutdown.
> > (The screen turns to the Qubes logo with the progress bar, 
> > then the fan
> > cranks up.) Sometimes the bar makes it all the way to the end, 
> > other
> > times it seems to simply crash to a hault. As I mentioned 
> > elsewhere,
> > the
> > Thinkpad X201t is known to have overheating issues, but I'm 
> > not sure if
> > this is related. I'm not working the machine particularly hard 
> > (just
> > browsing articles on the web), and the hardware is not 
> > particularly hot
> > to the touch.
>  When it gets to the qubes logo screen, press ESC to see what it's
>  actually doing.
> 
>  If you wish to always know what it's doing, turn off rhgb and 
>  quiet
>  in the boot config.
> 
>  Then you will see where the issue is.
> >>> Thanks, I'll give that a shot next time it happens. I feel like 
> >>> it'll
> >>> go by too quickly for me to see what's happening; does it also 
> >>> write
> >>> its activity to a log somewhere?
> >> I can now confirm that it's an over heating issue. When it went 
> >> into the
> >> automatic shutdown sequence, I pressed escape and managed to take 
> >> note
> >> of a few of the messages. One of the very first ones was 
> >> something about
> >> "thermal_zone_0 critical temperature reached: 128C", which I 
> >> assume is
> >> the cause. (This isn't an exact quote, since I noted it from 
> >> memory.)
> >>
> >> This raises some questions:
> >> - What could be causing this overheating issue in Whonix?
> >> - Is 128C a normal temperature for the safety shutdown to kick in?
> >> - Does Qubes have a warning / alert system for potential 
> >> overheat? (Like
> >> low battery)
> > It is a high temperature, but does it ONLY happen in Whonix?
> > Or if you push the PC does it happen also?
> > Have you tried limiting the threads Whonix can use?
> >
> > Sometimes CPUs have shutdown at 99 degrees.
> > So 128 degrees is a bit high in my own opinion.
> >
> > I recommend you check the CPU Fan and heatsinks (if it has them).
>  Thanks for the input - I just dusted out the fan, and we'll see if it
>  helps. It wasn't too bad, but we'll see if there's an improvement.
> 
>  No, it also randomly goes into auto-shutdown when backing up VMs.
>  However, that happens about 20% of the time. Whonix seems to do it 
>  about
>  80% of the time, the other 20% I figure I shut it down before it 
>  does so
>  on its own. I figure there may be something in the Whonix VM that's
>  causing my processor to over work itself. The auto-shutdowns may be
>  ultimately linked to dust in the fan or something like that, but if
>  there's something processor intensive in Whonix, it may be worth 
>  looking
>  into.
> 
>  Also, a heat warning message would be nice. I assume the thresholds 
>  are
>  set via the bios - is there a standard way of monitoring this? (I'm 
>  not
>  particularly well versed in this sort of thing.)
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I recommend you get your HDD checked, and your RAM.
> >>>
> >>> Test both thoroughly.
> >>> Could be some bad sectors.
> >>> Also run a smartd check.
> >>>
> >>> Some PCs have system diagnostics built in for RAM in the startup 
> >>> sequence.
> >> Thinkpads have known problem that after long time of usage GPU 
> >> radiator glued to the chip goes loose and X201 is rather older model. 
> >> Not sure how to measure GPU 

Re: [qubes-users] Re: Qubes not shutting down

2016-11-25 Thread raahelps
On Monday, November 21, 2016 at 2:04:43 PM UTC-5, Loren Rogers wrote:
> On 11/21/2016 11:04 AM, Loren Rogers wrote:
> >
> > On 11/21/2016 12:42 AM, Drew White wrote:
> >> On Sunday, 20 November 2016 04:56:03 UTC+11, Loren Rogers  wrote:
> >>> Another correlation I've noticed is that my machine randomly shuts
> >>> itself down without warning when I'm browsing in the Anon-Whonix VM. It
> >>> seems that simply having the Whonix browser open causes the problem.
> >>> I've not been able to pin down an exact cause, but it seems to happen
> >>> after about 5-20min. When this happens, the machine sometimes ends 
> >>> up in
> >>> a hung state (black screen) at the end of the shutdown process.
> >>>
> >>> I've also noticed that the fan speeds up right at it starts to 
> >>> shutdown.
> >>> (The screen turns to the Qubes logo with the progress bar, then the fan
> >>> cranks up.) Sometimes the bar makes it all the way to the end, other
> >>> times it seems to simply crash to a hault. As I mentioned elsewhere, 
> >>> the
> >>> Thinkpad X201t is known to have overheating issues, but I'm not sure if
> >>> this is related. I'm not working the machine particularly hard (just
> >>> browsing articles on the web), and the hardware is not particularly hot
> >>> to the touch.
> >> When it gets to the qubes logo screen, press ESC to see what it's 
> >> actually doing.
> >>
> >> If you wish to always know what it's doing, turn off rhgb and quiet 
> >> in the boot config.
> >>
> >> Then you will see where the issue is.
> >
> > Thanks, I'll give that a shot next time it happens. I feel like it'll 
> > go by too quickly for me to see what's happening; does it also write 
> > its activity to a log somewhere?
> 
> I can now confirm that it's an over heating issue. When it went into the 
> automatic shutdown sequence, I pressed escape and managed to take note 
> of a few of the messages. One of the very first ones was something about 
> "thermal_zone_0 critical temperature reached: 128C", which I assume is 
> the cause. (This isn't an exact quote, since I noted it from memory.)
> 
> This raises some questions:
> - What could be causing this overheating issue in Whonix?
> - Is 128C a normal temperature for the safety shutdown to kick in?
> - Does Qubes have a warning / alert system for potential overheat? (Like 
> low battery)

maybet thats your hdd reported temp?  Fedora use smartctl by default I think?  
could be your hdd is going if its the case.

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Re: [qubes-users] Re: Qubes not shutting down

2016-11-24 Thread Drew White
On Friday, 25 November 2016 07:11:15 UTC+11, Loren Rogers  wrote:
> On 11/24/2016 01:39 PM, Loren Rogers wrote:
> >
> >
> > On 11/24/2016 03:57 AM, Pawel Debski wrote:
> >> W dniu środa, 23 listopada 2016 00:34:09 UTC+1 użytkownik Drew White 
> >> napisał:
> >>> On Tuesday, 22 November 2016 13:41:30 UTC+11, Loren Rogers  wrote:
>  On 11/21/2016 06:24 PM, Drew White wrote:
> > On Tuesday, 22 November 2016 06:04:43 UTC+11, Loren Rogers  wrote:
> >> On 11/21/2016 11:04 AM, Loren Rogers wrote:
> >>> On 11/21/2016 12:42 AM, Drew White wrote:
>  On Sunday, 20 November 2016 04:56:03 UTC+11, Loren Rogers  wrote:
> > Another correlation I've noticed is that my machine randomly 
> > shuts
> > itself down without warning when I'm browsing in the 
> > Anon-Whonix VM. It
> > seems that simply having the Whonix browser open causes the 
> > problem.
> > I've not been able to pin down an exact cause, but it seems to 
> > happen
> > after about 5-20min. When this happens, the machine sometimes 
> > ends
> > up in
> > a hung state (black screen) at the end of the shutdown process.
> >
> > I've also noticed that the fan speeds up right at it starts to
> > shutdown.
> > (The screen turns to the Qubes logo with the progress bar, 
> > then the fan
> > cranks up.) Sometimes the bar makes it all the way to the end, 
> > other
> > times it seems to simply crash to a hault. As I mentioned 
> > elsewhere,
> > the
> > Thinkpad X201t is known to have overheating issues, but I'm 
> > not sure if
> > this is related. I'm not working the machine particularly hard 
> > (just
> > browsing articles on the web), and the hardware is not 
> > particularly hot
> > to the touch.
>  When it gets to the qubes logo screen, press ESC to see what it's
>  actually doing.
> 
>  If you wish to always know what it's doing, turn off rhgb and 
>  quiet
>  in the boot config.
> 
>  Then you will see where the issue is.
> >>> Thanks, I'll give that a shot next time it happens. I feel like 
> >>> it'll
> >>> go by too quickly for me to see what's happening; does it also 
> >>> write
> >>> its activity to a log somewhere?
> >> I can now confirm that it's an over heating issue. When it went 
> >> into the
> >> automatic shutdown sequence, I pressed escape and managed to take 
> >> note
> >> of a few of the messages. One of the very first ones was 
> >> something about
> >> "thermal_zone_0 critical temperature reached: 128C", which I 
> >> assume is
> >> the cause. (This isn't an exact quote, since I noted it from 
> >> memory.)
> >>
> >> This raises some questions:
> >> - What could be causing this overheating issue in Whonix?
> >> - Is 128C a normal temperature for the safety shutdown to kick in?
> >> - Does Qubes have a warning / alert system for potential 
> >> overheat? (Like
> >> low battery)
> > It is a high temperature, but does it ONLY happen in Whonix?
> > Or if you push the PC does it happen also?
> > Have you tried limiting the threads Whonix can use?
> >
> > Sometimes CPUs have shutdown at 99 degrees.
> > So 128 degrees is a bit high in my own opinion.
> >
> > I recommend you check the CPU Fan and heatsinks (if it has them).
>  Thanks for the input - I just dusted out the fan, and we'll see if it
>  helps. It wasn't too bad, but we'll see if there's an improvement.
> 
>  No, it also randomly goes into auto-shutdown when backing up VMs.
>  However, that happens about 20% of the time. Whonix seems to do it 
>  about
>  80% of the time, the other 20% I figure I shut it down before it 
>  does so
>  on its own. I figure there may be something in the Whonix VM that's
>  causing my processor to over work itself. The auto-shutdowns may be
>  ultimately linked to dust in the fan or something like that, but if
>  there's something processor intensive in Whonix, it may be worth 
>  looking
>  into.
> 
>  Also, a heat warning message would be nice. I assume the thresholds 
>  are
>  set via the bios - is there a standard way of monitoring this? (I'm 
>  not
>  particularly well versed in this sort of thing.)
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I recommend you get your HDD checked, and your RAM.
> >>>
> >>> Test both thoroughly.
> >>> Could be some bad sectors.
> >>> Also run a smartd check.
> >>>
> >>> Some PCs have system diagnostics built in for RAM in the startup 
> >>> sequence.
> >> Thinkpads have known problem that after long time of usage GPU 
> >> radiator glued to the chip goes loose and X201 is rather older model. 
> >> Not sure how to measure GPU temp but 

Re: [qubes-users] Re: Qubes not shutting down

2016-11-24 Thread Loren Rogers



On 11/24/2016 03:57 AM, Pawel Debski wrote:

W dniu środa, 23 listopada 2016 00:34:09 UTC+1 użytkownik Drew White napisał:

On Tuesday, 22 November 2016 13:41:30 UTC+11, Loren Rogers  wrote:

On 11/21/2016 06:24 PM, Drew White wrote:

On Tuesday, 22 November 2016 06:04:43 UTC+11, Loren Rogers  wrote:

On 11/21/2016 11:04 AM, Loren Rogers wrote:

On 11/21/2016 12:42 AM, Drew White wrote:

On Sunday, 20 November 2016 04:56:03 UTC+11, Loren Rogers  wrote:

Another correlation I've noticed is that my machine randomly shuts
itself down without warning when I'm browsing in the Anon-Whonix VM. It
seems that simply having the Whonix browser open causes the problem.
I've not been able to pin down an exact cause, but it seems to happen
after about 5-20min. When this happens, the machine sometimes ends
up in
a hung state (black screen) at the end of the shutdown process.

I've also noticed that the fan speeds up right at it starts to
shutdown.
(The screen turns to the Qubes logo with the progress bar, then the fan
cranks up.) Sometimes the bar makes it all the way to the end, other
times it seems to simply crash to a hault. As I mentioned elsewhere,
the
Thinkpad X201t is known to have overheating issues, but I'm not sure if
this is related. I'm not working the machine particularly hard (just
browsing articles on the web), and the hardware is not particularly hot
to the touch.

When it gets to the qubes logo screen, press ESC to see what it's
actually doing.

If you wish to always know what it's doing, turn off rhgb and quiet
in the boot config.

Then you will see where the issue is.

Thanks, I'll give that a shot next time it happens. I feel like it'll
go by too quickly for me to see what's happening; does it also write
its activity to a log somewhere?

I can now confirm that it's an over heating issue. When it went into the
automatic shutdown sequence, I pressed escape and managed to take note
of a few of the messages. One of the very first ones was something about
"thermal_zone_0 critical temperature reached: 128C", which I assume is
the cause. (This isn't an exact quote, since I noted it from memory.)

This raises some questions:
- What could be causing this overheating issue in Whonix?
- Is 128C a normal temperature for the safety shutdown to kick in?
- Does Qubes have a warning / alert system for potential overheat? (Like
low battery)

It is a high temperature, but does it ONLY happen in Whonix?
Or if you push the PC does it happen also?
Have you tried limiting the threads Whonix can use?

Sometimes CPUs have shutdown at 99 degrees.
So 128 degrees is a bit high in my own opinion.

I recommend you check the CPU Fan and heatsinks (if it has them).

Thanks for the input - I just dusted out the fan, and we'll see if it
helps. It wasn't too bad, but we'll see if there's an improvement.

No, it also randomly goes into auto-shutdown when backing up VMs.
However, that happens about 20% of the time. Whonix seems to do it about
80% of the time, the other 20% I figure I shut it down before it does so
on its own. I figure there may be something in the Whonix VM that's
causing my processor to over work itself. The auto-shutdowns may be
ultimately linked to dust in the fan or something like that, but if
there's something processor intensive in Whonix, it may be worth looking
into.

Also, a heat warning message would be nice. I assume the thresholds are
set via the bios - is there a standard way of monitoring this? (I'm not
particularly well versed in this sort of thing.)



I recommend you get your HDD checked, and your RAM.

Test both thoroughly.
Could be some bad sectors.
Also run a smartd check.

Some PCs have system diagnostics built in for RAM in the startup sequence.

Thinkpads have known problem that after long time of usage GPU radiator glued to 
the chip goes loose and X201 is rather older model. Not sure how to measure GPU 
temp but if this is the case you can improve it yourself with superglue & 
silver smear or any repair shop around shall do it for a few coppers.

Thanks everyone -- this is great info.

I think the dust removal was really helpful. I've noticed that the fan 
is working a lot less, and it's not crashing during backups like it did 
before. I'll check the HDD and RAM soon, and I'll keep the GPU radiator 
issue in mind. (I had no idea this was an issue - thanks for the pointer!)


Any thoughts on a temperature warning message?

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Re: [qubes-users] Re: Qubes not shutting down

2016-11-24 Thread Pawel Debski
W dniu środa, 23 listopada 2016 00:34:09 UTC+1 użytkownik Drew White napisał:
> On Tuesday, 22 November 2016 13:41:30 UTC+11, Loren Rogers  wrote:
> > On 11/21/2016 06:24 PM, Drew White wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, 22 November 2016 06:04:43 UTC+11, Loren Rogers  wrote:
> > >> On 11/21/2016 11:04 AM, Loren Rogers wrote:
> > >>> On 11/21/2016 12:42 AM, Drew White wrote:
> >  On Sunday, 20 November 2016 04:56:03 UTC+11, Loren Rogers  wrote:
> > > Another correlation I've noticed is that my machine randomly shuts
> > > itself down without warning when I'm browsing in the Anon-Whonix VM. 
> > > It
> > > seems that simply having the Whonix browser open causes the problem.
> > > I've not been able to pin down an exact cause, but it seems to happen
> > > after about 5-20min. When this happens, the machine sometimes ends
> > > up in
> > > a hung state (black screen) at the end of the shutdown process.
> > >
> > > I've also noticed that the fan speeds up right at it starts to
> > > shutdown.
> > > (The screen turns to the Qubes logo with the progress bar, then the 
> > > fan
> > > cranks up.) Sometimes the bar makes it all the way to the end, other
> > > times it seems to simply crash to a hault. As I mentioned elsewhere,
> > > the
> > > Thinkpad X201t is known to have overheating issues, but I'm not sure 
> > > if
> > > this is related. I'm not working the machine particularly hard (just
> > > browsing articles on the web), and the hardware is not particularly 
> > > hot
> > > to the touch.
> >  When it gets to the qubes logo screen, press ESC to see what it's
> >  actually doing.
> > 
> >  If you wish to always know what it's doing, turn off rhgb and quiet
> >  in the boot config.
> > 
> >  Then you will see where the issue is.
> > >>> Thanks, I'll give that a shot next time it happens. I feel like it'll
> > >>> go by too quickly for me to see what's happening; does it also write
> > >>> its activity to a log somewhere?
> > >> I can now confirm that it's an over heating issue. When it went into the
> > >> automatic shutdown sequence, I pressed escape and managed to take note
> > >> of a few of the messages. One of the very first ones was something about
> > >> "thermal_zone_0 critical temperature reached: 128C", which I assume is
> > >> the cause. (This isn't an exact quote, since I noted it from memory.)
> > >>
> > >> This raises some questions:
> > >> - What could be causing this overheating issue in Whonix?
> > >> - Is 128C a normal temperature for the safety shutdown to kick in?
> > >> - Does Qubes have a warning / alert system for potential overheat? (Like
> > >> low battery)
> > > It is a high temperature, but does it ONLY happen in Whonix?
> > > Or if you push the PC does it happen also?
> > > Have you tried limiting the threads Whonix can use?
> > >
> > > Sometimes CPUs have shutdown at 99 degrees.
> > > So 128 degrees is a bit high in my own opinion.
> > >
> > > I recommend you check the CPU Fan and heatsinks (if it has them).
> > 
> > Thanks for the input - I just dusted out the fan, and we'll see if it 
> > helps. It wasn't too bad, but we'll see if there's an improvement.
> > 
> > No, it also randomly goes into auto-shutdown when backing up VMs. 
> > However, that happens about 20% of the time. Whonix seems to do it about 
> > 80% of the time, the other 20% I figure I shut it down before it does so 
> > on its own. I figure there may be something in the Whonix VM that's 
> > causing my processor to over work itself. The auto-shutdowns may be 
> > ultimately linked to dust in the fan or something like that, but if 
> > there's something processor intensive in Whonix, it may be worth looking 
> > into.
> > 
> > Also, a heat warning message would be nice. I assume the thresholds are 
> > set via the bios - is there a standard way of monitoring this? (I'm not 
> > particularly well versed in this sort of thing.)
> 
> 
> 
> I recommend you get your HDD checked, and your RAM.
> 
> Test both thoroughly.
> Could be some bad sectors.
> Also run a smartd check.
> 
> Some PCs have system diagnostics built in for RAM in the startup sequence.

Thinkpads have known problem that after long time of usage GPU radiator glued 
to the chip goes loose and X201 is rather older model. Not sure how to measure 
GPU temp but if this is the case you can improve it yourself with superglue & 
silver smear or any repair shop around shall do it for a few coppers.

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Re: [qubes-users] Re: Qubes not shutting down

2016-11-22 Thread Drew White
On Tuesday, 22 November 2016 13:41:30 UTC+11, Loren Rogers  wrote:
> On 11/21/2016 06:24 PM, Drew White wrote:
> > On Tuesday, 22 November 2016 06:04:43 UTC+11, Loren Rogers  wrote:
> >> On 11/21/2016 11:04 AM, Loren Rogers wrote:
> >>> On 11/21/2016 12:42 AM, Drew White wrote:
>  On Sunday, 20 November 2016 04:56:03 UTC+11, Loren Rogers  wrote:
> > Another correlation I've noticed is that my machine randomly shuts
> > itself down without warning when I'm browsing in the Anon-Whonix VM. It
> > seems that simply having the Whonix browser open causes the problem.
> > I've not been able to pin down an exact cause, but it seems to happen
> > after about 5-20min. When this happens, the machine sometimes ends
> > up in
> > a hung state (black screen) at the end of the shutdown process.
> >
> > I've also noticed that the fan speeds up right at it starts to
> > shutdown.
> > (The screen turns to the Qubes logo with the progress bar, then the fan
> > cranks up.) Sometimes the bar makes it all the way to the end, other
> > times it seems to simply crash to a hault. As I mentioned elsewhere,
> > the
> > Thinkpad X201t is known to have overheating issues, but I'm not sure if
> > this is related. I'm not working the machine particularly hard (just
> > browsing articles on the web), and the hardware is not particularly hot
> > to the touch.
>  When it gets to the qubes logo screen, press ESC to see what it's
>  actually doing.
> 
>  If you wish to always know what it's doing, turn off rhgb and quiet
>  in the boot config.
> 
>  Then you will see where the issue is.
> >>> Thanks, I'll give that a shot next time it happens. I feel like it'll
> >>> go by too quickly for me to see what's happening; does it also write
> >>> its activity to a log somewhere?
> >> I can now confirm that it's an over heating issue. When it went into the
> >> automatic shutdown sequence, I pressed escape and managed to take note
> >> of a few of the messages. One of the very first ones was something about
> >> "thermal_zone_0 critical temperature reached: 128C", which I assume is
> >> the cause. (This isn't an exact quote, since I noted it from memory.)
> >>
> >> This raises some questions:
> >> - What could be causing this overheating issue in Whonix?
> >> - Is 128C a normal temperature for the safety shutdown to kick in?
> >> - Does Qubes have a warning / alert system for potential overheat? (Like
> >> low battery)
> > It is a high temperature, but does it ONLY happen in Whonix?
> > Or if you push the PC does it happen also?
> > Have you tried limiting the threads Whonix can use?
> >
> > Sometimes CPUs have shutdown at 99 degrees.
> > So 128 degrees is a bit high in my own opinion.
> >
> > I recommend you check the CPU Fan and heatsinks (if it has them).
> 
> Thanks for the input - I just dusted out the fan, and we'll see if it 
> helps. It wasn't too bad, but we'll see if there's an improvement.
> 
> No, it also randomly goes into auto-shutdown when backing up VMs. 
> However, that happens about 20% of the time. Whonix seems to do it about 
> 80% of the time, the other 20% I figure I shut it down before it does so 
> on its own. I figure there may be something in the Whonix VM that's 
> causing my processor to over work itself. The auto-shutdowns may be 
> ultimately linked to dust in the fan or something like that, but if 
> there's something processor intensive in Whonix, it may be worth looking 
> into.
> 
> Also, a heat warning message would be nice. I assume the thresholds are 
> set via the bios - is there a standard way of monitoring this? (I'm not 
> particularly well versed in this sort of thing.)



I recommend you get your HDD checked, and your RAM.

Test both thoroughly.
Could be some bad sectors.
Also run a smartd check.

Some PCs have system diagnostics built in for RAM in the startup sequence.

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Re: [qubes-users] Re: Qubes not shutting down

2016-11-21 Thread Loren Rogers



On 11/21/2016 06:24 PM, Drew White wrote:

On Tuesday, 22 November 2016 06:04:43 UTC+11, Loren Rogers  wrote:

On 11/21/2016 11:04 AM, Loren Rogers wrote:

On 11/21/2016 12:42 AM, Drew White wrote:

On Sunday, 20 November 2016 04:56:03 UTC+11, Loren Rogers  wrote:

Another correlation I've noticed is that my machine randomly shuts
itself down without warning when I'm browsing in the Anon-Whonix VM. It
seems that simply having the Whonix browser open causes the problem.
I've not been able to pin down an exact cause, but it seems to happen
after about 5-20min. When this happens, the machine sometimes ends
up in
a hung state (black screen) at the end of the shutdown process.

I've also noticed that the fan speeds up right at it starts to
shutdown.
(The screen turns to the Qubes logo with the progress bar, then the fan
cranks up.) Sometimes the bar makes it all the way to the end, other
times it seems to simply crash to a hault. As I mentioned elsewhere,
the
Thinkpad X201t is known to have overheating issues, but I'm not sure if
this is related. I'm not working the machine particularly hard (just
browsing articles on the web), and the hardware is not particularly hot
to the touch.

When it gets to the qubes logo screen, press ESC to see what it's
actually doing.

If you wish to always know what it's doing, turn off rhgb and quiet
in the boot config.

Then you will see where the issue is.

Thanks, I'll give that a shot next time it happens. I feel like it'll
go by too quickly for me to see what's happening; does it also write
its activity to a log somewhere?

I can now confirm that it's an over heating issue. When it went into the
automatic shutdown sequence, I pressed escape and managed to take note
of a few of the messages. One of the very first ones was something about
"thermal_zone_0 critical temperature reached: 128C", which I assume is
the cause. (This isn't an exact quote, since I noted it from memory.)

This raises some questions:
- What could be causing this overheating issue in Whonix?
- Is 128C a normal temperature for the safety shutdown to kick in?
- Does Qubes have a warning / alert system for potential overheat? (Like
low battery)

It is a high temperature, but does it ONLY happen in Whonix?
Or if you push the PC does it happen also?
Have you tried limiting the threads Whonix can use?

Sometimes CPUs have shutdown at 99 degrees.
So 128 degrees is a bit high in my own opinion.

I recommend you check the CPU Fan and heatsinks (if it has them).


Thanks for the input - I just dusted out the fan, and we'll see if it 
helps. It wasn't too bad, but we'll see if there's an improvement.


No, it also randomly goes into auto-shutdown when backing up VMs. 
However, that happens about 20% of the time. Whonix seems to do it about 
80% of the time, the other 20% I figure I shut it down before it does so 
on its own. I figure there may be something in the Whonix VM that's 
causing my processor to over work itself. The auto-shutdowns may be 
ultimately linked to dust in the fan or something like that, but if 
there's something processor intensive in Whonix, it may be worth looking 
into.


Also, a heat warning message would be nice. I assume the thresholds are 
set via the bios - is there a standard way of monitoring this? (I'm not 
particularly well versed in this sort of thing.)





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Re: [qubes-users] Re: Qubes not shutting down

2016-11-21 Thread Drew White
On Tuesday, 22 November 2016 06:04:43 UTC+11, Loren Rogers  wrote:
> On 11/21/2016 11:04 AM, Loren Rogers wrote:
> >
> > On 11/21/2016 12:42 AM, Drew White wrote:
> >> On Sunday, 20 November 2016 04:56:03 UTC+11, Loren Rogers  wrote:
> >>> Another correlation I've noticed is that my machine randomly shuts
> >>> itself down without warning when I'm browsing in the Anon-Whonix VM. It
> >>> seems that simply having the Whonix browser open causes the problem.
> >>> I've not been able to pin down an exact cause, but it seems to happen
> >>> after about 5-20min. When this happens, the machine sometimes ends 
> >>> up in
> >>> a hung state (black screen) at the end of the shutdown process.
> >>>
> >>> I've also noticed that the fan speeds up right at it starts to 
> >>> shutdown.
> >>> (The screen turns to the Qubes logo with the progress bar, then the fan
> >>> cranks up.) Sometimes the bar makes it all the way to the end, other
> >>> times it seems to simply crash to a hault. As I mentioned elsewhere, 
> >>> the
> >>> Thinkpad X201t is known to have overheating issues, but I'm not sure if
> >>> this is related. I'm not working the machine particularly hard (just
> >>> browsing articles on the web), and the hardware is not particularly hot
> >>> to the touch.
> >> When it gets to the qubes logo screen, press ESC to see what it's 
> >> actually doing.
> >>
> >> If you wish to always know what it's doing, turn off rhgb and quiet 
> >> in the boot config.
> >>
> >> Then you will see where the issue is.
> >
> > Thanks, I'll give that a shot next time it happens. I feel like it'll 
> > go by too quickly for me to see what's happening; does it also write 
> > its activity to a log somewhere?
> 
> I can now confirm that it's an over heating issue. When it went into the 
> automatic shutdown sequence, I pressed escape and managed to take note 
> of a few of the messages. One of the very first ones was something about 
> "thermal_zone_0 critical temperature reached: 128C", which I assume is 
> the cause. (This isn't an exact quote, since I noted it from memory.)
> 
> This raises some questions:
> - What could be causing this overheating issue in Whonix?
> - Is 128C a normal temperature for the safety shutdown to kick in?
> - Does Qubes have a warning / alert system for potential overheat? (Like 
> low battery)

It is a high temperature, but does it ONLY happen in Whonix?
Or if you push the PC does it happen also?
Have you tried limiting the threads Whonix can use?

Sometimes CPUs have shutdown at 99 degrees.
So 128 degrees is a bit high in my own opinion.

I recommend you check the CPU Fan and heatsinks (if it has them).

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Re: [qubes-users] Re: Qubes not shutting down

2016-11-21 Thread Loren Rogers



On 11/21/2016 11:04 AM, Loren Rogers wrote:


On 11/21/2016 12:42 AM, Drew White wrote:

On Sunday, 20 November 2016 04:56:03 UTC+11, Loren Rogers  wrote:

Another correlation I've noticed is that my machine randomly shuts
itself down without warning when I'm browsing in the Anon-Whonix VM. It
seems that simply having the Whonix browser open causes the problem.
I've not been able to pin down an exact cause, but it seems to happen
after about 5-20min. When this happens, the machine sometimes ends 
up in

a hung state (black screen) at the end of the shutdown process.

I've also noticed that the fan speeds up right at it starts to 
shutdown.

(The screen turns to the Qubes logo with the progress bar, then the fan
cranks up.) Sometimes the bar makes it all the way to the end, other
times it seems to simply crash to a hault. As I mentioned elsewhere, 
the

Thinkpad X201t is known to have overheating issues, but I'm not sure if
this is related. I'm not working the machine particularly hard (just
browsing articles on the web), and the hardware is not particularly hot
to the touch.
When it gets to the qubes logo screen, press ESC to see what it's 
actually doing.


If you wish to always know what it's doing, turn off rhgb and quiet 
in the boot config.


Then you will see where the issue is.


Thanks, I'll give that a shot next time it happens. I feel like it'll 
go by too quickly for me to see what's happening; does it also write 
its activity to a log somewhere?


I can now confirm that it's an over heating issue. When it went into the 
automatic shutdown sequence, I pressed escape and managed to take note 
of a few of the messages. One of the very first ones was something about 
"thermal_zone_0 critical temperature reached: 128C", which I assume is 
the cause. (This isn't an exact quote, since I noted it from memory.)


This raises some questions:
- What could be causing this overheating issue in Whonix?
- Is 128C a normal temperature for the safety shutdown to kick in?
- Does Qubes have a warning / alert system for potential overheat? (Like 
low battery)





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Re: [qubes-users] Re: Qubes not shutting down

2016-11-21 Thread Loren Rogers
Thanks, I'll give that a shot next time it happens. I feel like it'll go 
by too quickly for me to see what's happening; does it also write its 
activity to a log somewhere?



On 11/21/2016 12:42 AM, Drew White wrote:

On Sunday, 20 November 2016 04:56:03 UTC+11, Loren Rogers  wrote:

Another correlation I've noticed is that my machine randomly shuts
itself down without warning when I'm browsing in the Anon-Whonix VM. It
seems that simply having the Whonix browser open causes the problem.
I've not been able to pin down an exact cause, but it seems to happen
after about 5-20min. When this happens, the machine sometimes ends up in
a hung state (black screen) at the end of the shutdown process.

I've also noticed that the fan speeds up right at it starts to shutdown.
(The screen turns to the Qubes logo with the progress bar, then the fan
cranks up.) Sometimes the bar makes it all the way to the end, other
times it seems to simply crash to a hault. As I mentioned elsewhere, the
Thinkpad X201t is known to have overheating issues, but I'm not sure if
this is related. I'm not working the machine particularly hard (just
browsing articles on the web), and the hardware is not particularly hot
to the touch.

When it gets to the qubes logo screen, press ESC to see what it's actually 
doing.

If you wish to always know what it's doing, turn off rhgb and quiet in the boot 
config.

Then you will see where the issue is.



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Re: [qubes-users] Re: Qubes not shutting down

2016-11-21 Thread Loren Rogers


On 11/21/2016 12:42 AM, Drew White wrote:

On Sunday, 20 November 2016 04:56:03 UTC+11, Loren Rogers  wrote:

Another correlation I've noticed is that my machine randomly shuts
itself down without warning when I'm browsing in the Anon-Whonix VM. It
seems that simply having the Whonix browser open causes the problem.
I've not been able to pin down an exact cause, but it seems to happen
after about 5-20min. When this happens, the machine sometimes ends up in
a hung state (black screen) at the end of the shutdown process.

I've also noticed that the fan speeds up right at it starts to shutdown.
(The screen turns to the Qubes logo with the progress bar, then the fan
cranks up.) Sometimes the bar makes it all the way to the end, other
times it seems to simply crash to a hault. As I mentioned elsewhere, the
Thinkpad X201t is known to have overheating issues, but I'm not sure if
this is related. I'm not working the machine particularly hard (just
browsing articles on the web), and the hardware is not particularly hot
to the touch.

When it gets to the qubes logo screen, press ESC to see what it's actually 
doing.

If you wish to always know what it's doing, turn off rhgb and quiet in the boot 
config.

Then you will see where the issue is.


Thanks, I'll give that a shot next time it happens. I feel like it'll go 
by too quickly for me to see what's happening; does it also write its 
activity to a log somewhere?


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Re: [qubes-users] Re: Qubes not shutting down

2016-11-20 Thread Drew White
On Sunday, 20 November 2016 04:56:03 UTC+11, Loren Rogers  wrote:
> Another correlation I've noticed is that my machine randomly shuts 
> itself down without warning when I'm browsing in the Anon-Whonix VM. It 
> seems that simply having the Whonix browser open causes the problem. 
> I've not been able to pin down an exact cause, but it seems to happen 
> after about 5-20min. When this happens, the machine sometimes ends up in 
> a hung state (black screen) at the end of the shutdown process.
> 
> I've also noticed that the fan speeds up right at it starts to shutdown. 
> (The screen turns to the Qubes logo with the progress bar, then the fan 
> cranks up.) Sometimes the bar makes it all the way to the end, other 
> times it seems to simply crash to a hault. As I mentioned elsewhere, the 
> Thinkpad X201t is known to have overheating issues, but I'm not sure if 
> this is related. I'm not working the machine particularly hard (just 
> browsing articles on the web), and the hardware is not particularly hot 
> to the touch.

When it gets to the qubes logo screen, press ESC to see what it's actually 
doing.

If you wish to always know what it's doing, turn off rhgb and quiet in the boot 
config.

Then you will see where the issue is.

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Re: [qubes-users] Re: Qubes not shutting down

2016-11-19 Thread Loren Rogers



On 11/19/2016 06:28 AM, Andrew David Wong wrote:

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

On 2016-11-16 13:27, Loren Rogers wrote:

On 11/16/2016 02:33 PM, Grzesiek Chodzicki wrote:


W dniu środa, 16 listopada 2016 20:04:14 UTC+1 użytkownik Loren Rogers napisał:

Hi all,

I've successfully installed Qubes on my Thinkpad X201 tablet, but it has
issues shutting down. When I explicitly tell it to reboot or shutdown,
it goes through the entire shutdown sequence, but hangs on an empty
black screen. Occasionally, I see an unchanging white underscore (_)
character displayed in the top left when it hangs.

I tried leaving it in this state for about an hour, and no change--I've
always had to force-reset. I assume this is not normal?

Also, I find that the system randomly begins the shutdown sequence on
its own. (And hangs on the black screen at the end.)

Thanks,
Loren

The same issue occurs on my system only if I shut the system down while a VM 
with a PCI device without FLR support is running

Also, I just confirmed that it shuts down cleanly with all VMs off and no USB 
devices plugged in.


It sounds like you've encountered one (or both) of these issues:

https://github.com/QubesOS/qubes-issues/issues/1581
https://github.com/QubesOS/qubes-issues/issues/1826

- -- 
Andrew David Wong (Axon)

Community Manager, Qubes OS
https://www.qubes-os.org
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Another correlation I've noticed is that my machine randomly shuts 
itself down without warning when I'm browsing in the Anon-Whonix VM. It 
seems that simply having the Whonix browser open causes the problem. 
I've not been able to pin down an exact cause, but it seems to happen 
after about 5-20min. When this happens, the machine sometimes ends up in 
a hung state (black screen) at the end of the shutdown process.


I've also noticed that the fan speeds up right at it starts to shutdown. 
(The screen turns to the Qubes logo with the progress bar, then the fan 
cranks up.) Sometimes the bar makes it all the way to the end, other 
times it seems to simply crash to a hault. As I mentioned elsewhere, the 
Thinkpad X201t is known to have overheating issues, but I'm not sure if 
this is related. I'm not working the machine particularly hard (just 
browsing articles on the web), and the hardware is not particularly hot 
to the touch.



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Re: [qubes-users] Re: Qubes not shutting down

2016-11-19 Thread Andrew David Wong
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

On 2016-11-16 13:27, Loren Rogers wrote:
> On 11/16/2016 02:33 PM, Grzesiek Chodzicki wrote:
> 
>> W dniu środa, 16 listopada 2016 20:04:14 UTC+1 użytkownik Loren Rogers 
>> napisał:
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> I've successfully installed Qubes on my Thinkpad X201 tablet, but it has
>>> issues shutting down. When I explicitly tell it to reboot or shutdown,
>>> it goes through the entire shutdown sequence, but hangs on an empty
>>> black screen. Occasionally, I see an unchanging white underscore (_)
>>> character displayed in the top left when it hangs.
>>>
>>> I tried leaving it in this state for about an hour, and no change--I've
>>> always had to force-reset. I assume this is not normal?
>>>
>>> Also, I find that the system randomly begins the shutdown sequence on
>>> its own. (And hangs on the black screen at the end.)
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Loren
>> The same issue occurs on my system only if I shut the system down while a VM 
>> with a PCI device without FLR support is running
> 
> Also, I just confirmed that it shuts down cleanly with all VMs off and no USB 
> devices plugged in.
> 

It sounds like you've encountered one (or both) of these issues:

https://github.com/QubesOS/qubes-issues/issues/1581
https://github.com/QubesOS/qubes-issues/issues/1826

- -- 
Andrew David Wong (Axon)
Community Manager, Qubes OS
https://www.qubes-os.org
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