Re: [ntp:questions] Can NTP sync within 12us for NBFM

2014-04-29 Thread David Woolley
On 29/04/14 03:59, Brian Inglis wrote: I understand that the NBFM transmitter starts with phase modulation then integrates, multiplies, and filters the result to the FM carrier frequency You are confusing carrier phase and audio phase. (FM modulation is mathematically the same as frequency

Re: [ntp:questions] Issues installing ntpd on Win 7

2014-04-29 Thread David Taylor
On 29/04/2014 06:35, A C wrote: [] The original error messages were: A timeout was reached (3 milliseconds) while waiting for the Network Time Protocol Daemon service to connect. followed by The Network Time Protocol Daemon service failed to start due to the following error: The service

Re: [ntp:questions] Attn Linux distributors - pse include PPS

2014-04-29 Thread Rob
David Taylor david-tay...@blueyonder.co.uk.invalid wrote: On 26/04/2014 05:05, Harlan Stenn wrote: William Unruh writes: [] More recent ntpd combine server and client in one program. Not sure when that was. It's been the case for at least 20 years' time. This is something that may be

Re: [ntp:questions] Can NTP sync within 1ms

2014-04-29 Thread Rob
David Taylor david-tay...@blueyonder.co.uk.invalid wrote: For Rob, I would suggest that each TX have a GPS/PPS reference with sky view, and that each PC was identical (e.g. all Raspberry Pi cards), and then getting them synced to with 12 microseconds should be easy. I Of course that is

Re: [ntp:questions] Issues installing ntpd on Win 7

2014-04-29 Thread Martin Burnicki
A C wrote: On 2014-04-28 22:23, David Taylor wrote: On 29/04/2014 05:51, A C wrote: [] Followed the same instructions, no dice. .. and what are the messages in the Windows Event Log(s)? The original error messages were: A timeout was reached (3 milliseconds) while waiting for the

Re: [ntp:questions] Attn Linux distributors - pse include PPS

2014-04-29 Thread Martin Burnicki
Harlan Stenn wrote: This is something that may be different in the upcoming rewrite. Do you have a pointer to those plans? Martin -- Martin Burnicki Meinberg Funkuhren Bad Pyrmont Germany ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org

Re: [ntp:questions] Attn Linux distributors - pse include PPS

2014-04-29 Thread Martin Burnicki
Paul wrote: We have thousands of clients served from three S2 servers (so 0% need for refclock support). There are three S1 servers on campus (not yet in production). All three required building NTPd, one required a driver patch and one required building a kernel. It would be interesting to

Re: [ntp:questions] Attn Linux distributors - pse include PPS

2014-04-29 Thread Martin Burnicki
Harlan Stenn wrote: William Unruh writes: Well, ntpd could include timepps.h into ntpd source and point to it, instead of using the system one. Is there only one version of that file that is compatible with the places NTP will be built? What sort of bit-rot issues are there if we include a

Re: [ntp:questions] Can NTP sync within 12us for NBFM

2014-04-29 Thread Brian Inglis
On 2014-04-29 00:47, David Woolley wrote: On 29/04/14 03:59, Brian Inglis wrote: I understand that the NBFM transmitter starts with phase modulation then integrates, multiplies, and filters the result to the FM carrier frequency You are confusing carrier phase and audio phase. I omitted the

Re: [ntp:questions] Can NTP sync within 12us for NBFM

2014-04-29 Thread Brian Inglis
On 2014-04-29 00:47, David Woolley wrote: On 29/04/14 03:59, Brian Inglis wrote: I understand that the NBFM transmitter starts with phase modulation then integrates, multiplies, and filters the result to the FM carrier frequency You are confusing carrier phase and audio phase. I omitted the

Re: [ntp:questions] Attn Linux distributors - pse include PPS

2014-04-29 Thread Paul
On Tue, Apr 29, 2014 at 12:12 AM, David Taylor david-tay...@blueyonder.co.uk.invalid wrote: I would find it annoying to have to tell someone Oh, but if you want to pass on the time you need to uninstall what you have now and replace it with the client/server version. Clearly there was

Re: [ntp:questions] Attn Linux distributors - pse include PPS

2014-04-29 Thread Paul
On Tue, Apr 29, 2014 at 4:35 AM, Rob nom...@example.com wrote: This solution provides a lean ntpd program that is fit for most users, and it facilitates the easy addition of refclock drivers. Sure or you just recognize that only one system in a million needs refclock support and assume anyone

Re: [ntp:questions] Issues installing ntpd on Win 7

2014-04-29 Thread Jason Rabel
Ok, so on a whim I purged it completely from the system. Installed from scratch and the same problem occurred, no starting up of the process. I let the installation complete without letting it try to start the service again. Then I simply performed a reinstall where it detected the

Re: [ntp:questions] Can NTP sync within 1ms

2014-04-29 Thread David Taylor
On 29/04/2014 09:41, Rob wrote: [] Of course that is what we have. E.g. on a prototype here at home: ntpq -p remote refid st t when poll reach delay offset jitter == oPPS(0) .PPS.

Re: [ntp:questions] Issues installing ntpd on Win 7

2014-04-29 Thread David Taylor
On 29/04/2014 14:40, Jason Rabel wrote: Ok, so on a whim I purged it completely from the system. Installed from scratch and the same problem occurred, no starting up of the process. I let the installation complete without letting it try to start the service again. Then I simply performed a

Re: [ntp:questions] Issues installing ntpd on Win 7

2014-04-29 Thread Martin Burnicki
Jason Rabel wrote: Ok, so on a whim I purged it completely from the system. Installed from scratch and the same problem occurred, no starting up of the process. I let the installation complete without letting it try to start the service again. Then I simply performed a reinstall where it

Re: [ntp:questions] NTP.log interpretation

2014-04-29 Thread GregL
As a follow up to this discussion which has been very helpful to me wanted to say we are moving towards adding 4 internal time servers (NTP Unix based.. non-x86 hdw) to the two Windows domain controllers that are running NTP as well. All 6 will be synced externally and will serve all our

Re: [ntp:questions] Attn Linux distributors - pse include PPS

2014-04-29 Thread David Taylor
On 29/04/2014 14:40, Paul wrote: [] Sure or you just recognize that only one system in a million needs refclock support and assume anyone running a refclock needs to be smart enough to build ntpd with the requisite driver. However, many of my users who use PPS or other ref-clocks run Windows,

Re: [ntp:questions] Attn Linux distributors - pse include PPS

2014-04-29 Thread Paul
On Tue, Apr 29, 2014 at 10:12 AM, David Taylor david-tay...@blueyonder.co.uk.invalid wrote: However, many of my users who use PPS or other ref-clocks run Windows The subject line is Attn LINUX distributors. And it's really about timepps.h ___

Re: [ntp:questions] Attn Linux distributors - pse include PPS

2014-04-29 Thread Rob
David Taylor david-tay...@blueyonder.co.uk.invalid wrote: On 29/04/2014 14:40, Paul wrote: [] Sure or you just recognize that only one system in a million needs refclock support and assume anyone running a refclock needs to be smart enough to build ntpd with the requisite driver. However,

Re: [ntp:questions] Can NTP sync within 1ms

2014-04-29 Thread Rob
David Taylor david-tay...@blueyonder.co.uk.invalid wrote: Unfortunately that is not the same as performing some task like outputting audio at an accuracy of 12us, but that is the next challenge :-) Indeed, and you will likely want to look at very matched systems (PCs and transmitters - the

Re: [ntp:questions] Attn Linux distributors - pse include PPS

2014-04-29 Thread David Taylor
On 29/04/2014 15:35, Rob wrote: [] But with a modular approach you would not need to rebuild to add a standard refclock, that would just be the installation of another package containing the precompiled refclock or refclock bundle. That is no different from having a program like Perl as a base,

Re: [ntp:questions] Attn Linux distributors - pse include PPS

2014-04-29 Thread David Taylor
On 29/04/2014 15:33, Paul wrote: On Tue, Apr 29, 2014 at 10:12 AM, David Taylor david-tay...@blueyonder.co.uk.invalid wrote: However, many of my users who use PPS or other ref-clocks run Windows The subject line is Attn LINUX distributors. And it's really about timepps.h .. and I would

Re: [ntp:questions] Can NTP sync within 12us for NBFM

2014-04-29 Thread William Unruh
On 2014-04-29, Brian Inglis brian.ing...@shaw.ca wrote: On 2014-04-29 00:47, David Woolley wrote: On 29/04/14 03:59, Brian Inglis wrote: I understand that the NBFM transmitter starts with phase modulation then integrates, multiplies, and filters the result to the FM carrier frequency You

Re: [ntp:questions] Issues installing ntpd on Win 7

2014-04-29 Thread A C
On 2014-04-29 00:33, David Taylor wrote: On 29/04/2014 06:35, A C wrote: [] The original error messages were: A timeout was reached (3 milliseconds) while waiting for the Network Time Protocol Daemon service to connect. followed by The Network Time Protocol Daemon service failed to

Re: [ntp:questions] Issues installing ntpd on Win 7

2014-04-29 Thread A C
On 2014-04-29 03:14, Martin Burnicki wrote: A C wrote: On 2014-04-28 22:23, David Taylor wrote: On 29/04/2014 05:51, A C wrote: [] Followed the same instructions, no dice. .. and what are the messages in the Windows Event Log(s)? The original error messages were: A timeout was reached

Re: [ntp:questions] Can NTP sync within 1ms

2014-04-29 Thread William Unruh
On 2014-04-29, Rob nom...@example.com wrote: David Taylor david-tay...@blueyonder.co.uk.invalid wrote: Unfortunately that is not the same as performing some task like outputting audio at an accuracy of 12us, but that is the next challenge :-) Indeed, and you will likely want to look at very

Re: [ntp:questions] Can NTP sync within 1ms

2014-04-29 Thread Rob
William Unruh un...@invalid.ca wrote: The problem is not the electronics, it is the response of the system to the interrupt. That interrupt processing time is in the usec range. This does not really matter when it is constant. And my experience is that the jitter on the PPS refclock is usually

Re: [ntp:questions] Issues installing ntpd on Win 7

2014-04-29 Thread A C
On 2014-04-29 07:00, Martin Burnicki wrote: Jason Rabel wrote: Ok, so on a whim I purged it completely from the system. Installed from scratch and the same problem occurred, no starting up of the process. I let the installation complete without letting it try to start the service again.

Re: [ntp:questions] Issues installing ntpd on Win 7

2014-04-29 Thread A C
On 2014-04-29 06:40, Jason Rabel wrote: Ok, so on a whim I purged it completely from the system. Installed from scratch and the same problem occurred, no starting up of the process. I let the installation complete without letting it try to start the service again. Then I simply performed a

Re: [ntp:questions] Attn Linux distributors - pse include PPS

2014-04-29 Thread Paul
On Tue, Apr 29, 2014 at 11:21 AM, David Taylor david-tay...@blueyonder.co.uk.invalid wrote: But the threat of breaking NTP into two separate parts had been mentioned, and it was that which I was addressing Sure. But I really have no idea what Harlan was speaking to there and, for Windows

Re: [ntp:questions] Can NTP sync within 1ms

2014-04-29 Thread Rob
William Unruh un...@invalid.ca wrote: On 2014-04-29, Rob nom...@example.com wrote: William Unruh un...@invalid.ca wrote: The problem is not the electronics, it is the response of the system to the interrupt. That interrupt processing time is in the usec range. This does not really matter

Re: [ntp:questions] Attn Linux distributors - pse include PPS

2014-04-29 Thread Harlan Stenn
Martin Burnicki writes: Harlan Stenn wrote: This is something that may be different in the upcoming rewrite. Do you have a pointer to those plans? Not yet - we can start a discussion topic on the wiki and I doubt I'll have time to do much with it for at least a month. Right now I have a