[ntp:questions] NTP Performance on WINNT

2009-07-20 Thread paul
Hi All, I'm new to NTP, glad to meet you here. I did some experiments to test NTP performance on WINNT. In an isolated network, two machines are inter connnected with a switcher. Machine A is configure as a stratum 12 NTP server, using lcl as reference clock; machine B is sychronized to machine

Re: [ntp:questions] Testing Sync Across Several Systems

2009-07-20 Thread paul
On Jul 20, 8:38 pm, T g41...@motorola.com wrote: Greetings: We have about 50 Linux/Solaris/Windows boxes running ntpd at several different sites. Some of the systems from time to time go out of sync. My question is there a way to test ntpd machines are all in sync with the master server?

Re: [ntp:questions] NTP Performance on WINNT

2009-07-20 Thread paul
On Jul 20, 10:36 pm, David J Taylor david-tay...@blueyonder.not- this-part.nor-this.co.uk.invalid wrote: paul wrote: Hi All, I'm new to NTP, glad to meet you here. I did some experiments to test NTP performance on WINNT. In an isolated network, two machines are inter connnected

Re: [ntp:questions] NTP Performance on WINNT

2009-07-20 Thread paul
On Jul 20, 11:45 pm, David J Taylor david-tay...@blueyonder.not- this-part.nor-this.co.uk.invalid wrote: paul wrote: [] Thank you, David. In my situation, no GPS is availiable. So can I expect better performance when GPS is used as reference clock, or when a stratum-1 NTP server

Re: [ntp:questions] NTP Performance on WINNT

2009-07-25 Thread paul
On Jul 21, 1:55 pm, David J Taylor david-tay...@blueyonder.not-this- part.nor-this.co.uk.invalid wrote: paul wrote: [] 10 Windows boxes with offset no greater than 5 ms from abs time is fair enough for me. I will try a local stratum-1 NTP server. Cheers, Paul Paul, Just

Re: [ntp:questions] NTP Performance on WINNT

2009-07-25 Thread paul
On Jul 25, 11:38 pm, David J Taylor david-tay...@blueyonder.not- this-part.nor-this.co.uk.invalid wrote: paul wrote: [] Hi David, I am wondering is there any other means to profile NTP performance, like some kind of hardware setup to measure time offset of two machine? I wrote some

Re: [ntp:questions] NTP Performance on WINNT

2009-07-26 Thread paul
On Jul 26, 12:30 am, David J Taylor david-tay...@blueyonder.not- this-part.nor-this.co.uk.invalid wrote: paul wrote: [] Thanks, but I mean something which do not rely on the output of ntpq.exe. My NTP Monitor uses NTP network calls to determine the offset of the PCs - it doesn't use

Re: [ntp:questions] NTP Performance on WINNT

2009-07-26 Thread paul
Although you might be able to drive a real (non-USB) parallel port, from application code, with fairly low latency the results would only be meaningful for a very unloaded machine, as, on a loaded machine, you wouldn't really know where you where in the system tick interval, when you read the

[ntp:questions] Time to fix reported driver bug.

2014-03-16 Thread Paul
I reported a bug in a driver about a month ago. Should I expect a feedback other than having it assigned to the refclock maintainers? Are times to fix on the scale of months or years? ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org

Re: [ntp:questions] Time to fix reported driver bug.

2014-03-16 Thread Paul
On Sun, Mar 16, 2014 at 9:53 AM, David Woolley david@ex.djwhome.demon.invalid wrote: If you tell us which bug report, someone may be able to indicate whether there is a competent developer, and how important it is. 2557. In most cases (~100%) it's inconsequential. I only noticed when

Re: [ntp:questions] Indirect GPS time source options

2014-03-16 Thread Paul
On Thursday, March 13, 2014 1:52:51 PM UTC-4, Olivier Drouin wrote: Diversity is really what I'm looking for and I dont really need microsecond accuracy. I'll talk with the facility owner and do some tests with handheld GPS so I can verify what kind of signal I can get (and where). I'm not sure

Re: [ntp:questions] Time to fix reported driver bug.

2014-03-16 Thread Paul
On Sun, Mar 16, 2014 at 2:22 PM, William Unruh un...@invalid.ca wrote: I only noticed when adding another device in the Trimble family but if there's active support I'd submit a patch for it. Why would you not submit a patch for it if you have one? I meant submit a patch for the new

Re: [ntp:questions] Time to fix reported driver bug.

2014-03-17 Thread Paul
On Mon, Mar 17, 2014 at 12:01 AM, Danny Mayer ma...@ntp.org wrote: A patch WAS submitted for this though it was done inline instead of as an attachment I added a patch against p433 as an attachment. I recommend that you mark it as possibly blocking 4.2.8 How to do that isn't immediately

Re: [ntp:questions] IEEE 1588 (PTP) at the nanosecond level?

2014-03-17 Thread Paul
On Mon, Mar 17, 2014 at 8:50 AM, Joe Gwinn joegw...@comcast.net wrote: Yes. My question is basically a query about the current state of the art. Some NTP offsets (output may look funny if formatted) clock1 looking at clock2 and clock3 (a Raspberry Pi). This suggests it can be as good as

Re: [ntp:questions] IEEE 1588 (PTP) at the nanosecond level?

2014-03-17 Thread Paul
On Mon, Mar 17, 2014 at 8:09 PM, Joe Gwinn joegw...@comcast.net wrote: I'm not familiar with DTI. Look for DOCSIS timing interface. The tight specs mentioned earlier are over a backplane although the in-premises numbers are sub-microsecond. ___

Re: [ntp:questions] IEEE 1588 (PTP) at the nanosecond level?

2014-03-17 Thread Paul
On Mon, Mar 17, 2014 at 8:07 PM, Joe Gwinn joegw...@comcast.net wrote: People are also lusting after sub-microsecond sync. Sure but not optimally in comp.protocols.ntp/questions@lists.ntp.org. With some help NTP can be quite good but the intent really isn't nanosecond accuracy.

Re: [ntp:questions] IEEE 1588 (PTP) at the nanosecond level?

2014-03-17 Thread Paul
On Mon, Mar 17, 2014 at 9:33 PM, Joseph Gwinn joegw...@comcast.net wrote: Will it do 100 meters or more, in bad neighborhoods? I'm not the right person to ask but since it is expected to maintain between 2.5 and 100 nanosecond sync with CPE nodes (cable modems) I assume it requires RF

Re: [ntp:questions] IEEE 1588 (PTP) at the nanosecond level?

2014-03-18 Thread Paul
On Tue, Mar 18, 2014 at 5:14 AM, Martin Burnicki martin.burni...@meinberg.de wrote: But without additional measurements you still don't know for sure if this is the true time offset, or if there is an additional systematic time offset (e.g. to an asymmetric network connection) which can't be

[ntp:questions] NIST wonders if it makes sense to outsource NTP over the public Internet

2014-03-19 Thread Paul
Sort of Lots of interesting stuff. https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportunitymode=formid=4f5c8b176af03d89abb1a318624c944b SUMMARY: National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST), Department of Commerce, seeks information from the public on NIST's potential transition of time services

Re: [ntp:questions] NIST wonders if it makes sense to outsource NTP over the public Internet

2014-03-19 Thread Paul
On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 3:20 PM, E-Mail Sent to this address will be added to the BlackLists Null@blacklist.anitech-systems.invalid wrote: Certichron is already doing that? I'm curious what punctuation you intended. They are already a significant portion of the NIST NTP servers They

Re: [ntp:questions] IEEE 1588 (PTP) at the nanosecond level?

2014-03-19 Thread Paul
On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 6:16 PM, Brian Inglis brian.ing...@systematicsw.ab.ca wrote: Each constellation has its own epoch, TAI or UTC time scale, and uncertainty: I'm unclear how various time scales relate to PTP. It would appear that the design intent is local (LAN) process control. And

Re: [ntp:questions] IEEE 1588 (PTP) at the nanosecond level?

2014-03-19 Thread Paul
On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 7:04 PM, Brian Inglis brian.ing...@systematicsw.ab.ca wrote: While 1ns precision may be doable, accuracy depends on what controls the GM, and its traceability to a reference. Sure. My point is I haven't seen a use case in this thread for nanosecond *accuracy*

Re: [ntp:questions] IEEE 1588 (PTP) at the nanosecond level?

2014-03-20 Thread Paul
On Thu, Mar 20, 2014 at 1:35 PM, Rob nom...@example.com wrote: Paul tik-...@bodosom.net wrote: Sure. My point is I haven't seen a use case in this thread for nanosecond *accuracy* relative to the TAI paper clock. It is not for timestamping the moment of clicking in an online auction

Re: [ntp:questions] Quality vs. Quantity

2014-03-22 Thread Paul
On Sat, Mar 22, 2014 at 8:54 PM, Daniel Quick daniel.qu...@gmail.comwrote: While considering that the number of requests to our time servers will grow over time since the client decides which server to sync with. What if the number of queries over time is decreasing?

Re: [ntp:questions] Quality vs. Quantity

2014-03-24 Thread Paul
On Mon, Mar 24, 2014 at 12:26 AM, Danny Mayer ma...@ntp.org wrote: That's a misconception. While I trust Richard Schmidt in what he says, that's is not what you think he says. It's hard to misinterpret 590SG load balancers and : It is the load balancer's duty to assign each incoming NTP

Re: [ntp:questions] Quality vs. Quantity

2014-03-24 Thread Paul
On Mon, Mar 24, 2014 at 11:18 AM, Jan Ceuleers jan.ceule...@computer.orgwrote: But I wonder what an active connection is in this context, since NTP sits atop UDP. These are IP based not TCP/IP. Do the load balancers track whether an association has been mobilised They could although the

Re: [ntp:questions] USTiming.org and Certichron sites out for a week

2014-03-24 Thread Paul
On Mon, Mar 24, 2014 at 12:08 PM, toddglas...@gmail.com wrote: The Certichron DNS servers got a DDoS attack against them. We apologize - please use the native time server addresses until they are replaced later this week. Please tell us it was an NTP amplification attack. Is your web

Re: [ntp:questions] Quality vs. Quantity

2014-03-24 Thread Paul
On Mon, Mar 24, 2014 at 1:42 PM, Terje Mathisen terje.mathi...@tmsw.no wrote: Huh? I'd rather expect the current trends to continue, with more and more gear starting to use (often very bad subsets of) the ntp protocol for time sync. The fastest growing device (and for many many people the

Re: [ntp:questions] Quality vs. Quantity

2014-03-24 Thread Paul
On Mon, Mar 24, 2014 at 1:37 PM, Brian Inglis brian.ing...@shaw.ca wrote: I hope that description is inaccurate, because of the additional delay and jitter added by passing twice through the front end. It may not be the case now but that would be an enormous error on the part of the authors.

Re: [ntp:questions] Handle ntp conf modification when ntp is already running

2014-04-08 Thread Paul
On Tue, Apr 8, 2014 at 12:24 PM, Dowd, Greg greg.d...@microsemi.com wrote: do you mean a new association? Like the ntpdc addserver command? Beyond the limited set of options and unpleasant syntax of addserver isn't ntpdc deprecated? (and disabled by default in recent builds) Perhaps :config

Re: [ntp:questions] Reasons of NTP not to use GPS source

2014-04-10 Thread Paul
A remarkable amount of traffic for a question posted last September. Particularly considering voltage matching wasn't mentioned. However it doesn't matter if William Unruh has never seen level matching problems or if Null@blacklist has always seen it. If the device under test works it works and

Re: [ntp:questions] Attn Linux distributors - pse include PPS

2014-04-25 Thread Paul
On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 9:13 AM, Rob nom...@example.com wrote: Of course it is all caused by the failure to include timepps.h in the kernel include file package, where they belong IMHO. Apparently there is unresolved debate about that. Ubuntu puts this development related file in the

Re: [ntp:questions] Can NTP sync within 1ms

2014-04-25 Thread Paul
On Thu, Apr 24, 2014 at 11:07 AM, Montgomery, Peter BIS peter.montgom...@fs.utc.com wrote: I would like to know whether NTP can sync between a client and a server within 1ms if the client and server are Linux applications on a simple local network ( less than 10 nodes). As previously

Re: [ntp:questions] Attn Linux distributors - pse include PPS

2014-04-25 Thread Paul
On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 4:36 PM, William Unruh un...@invalid.ca wrote: Why shoul dit ship with no refclocks? ... DO you have the same opinion for serial port or parallel ports, or network drivers? (Ignoring your mischaracterization of what I said and the strawman arguments) because a

Re: [ntp:questions] Attn Linux distributors - pse include PPS

2014-04-26 Thread Paul
On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 11:18 PM, William Unruh un...@invalid.ca wrote: As do you-- generalising from your one situation. Are you actually suggesting that the number of refclocks is a non-negligible fraction of the number of clients? Even if you only include Linux that makes no sense. Most

Re: [ntp:questions] Attn Linux distributors - pse include PPS

2014-04-26 Thread Paul
On Sat, Apr 26, 2014 at 3:33 AM, Rob nom...@example.com wrote: The point is that the program is compiled with a fixed set of refclocks that is unneccessarily limited because the environment it was compiled in was not complete. Are you saying that the ntpd that ships with Ubuntu 14.04 is

Re: [ntp:questions] Attn Linux distributors - pse include PPS

2014-04-26 Thread Paul
On Sat, Apr 26, 2014 at 4:34 PM, Jason Rabel ja...@extremeoverclocking.comwrote: Don't you think that is a gripe for the people over at Ubuntu? Well maybe. The OP was directed to Linux distributors but in this case that's Debian not Ubuntu. But to your point -- even if you don't much care

Re: [ntp:questions] Can NTP sync within 1ms

2014-04-26 Thread Paul
On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 11:22 PM, William Unruh un...@invalid.ca wrote: I have 8 machines that reliably sync from one GPS PPS driven machine (all using chrony) and they get time reliability of about 10microseconds How do you determine the 10 micosec. value? And why are you conflating NTP

Re: [ntp:questions] Attn Linux distributors - pse include PPS

2014-04-26 Thread Paul
On Sat, Apr 26, 2014 at 6:30 PM, Rob nom...@example.com wrote: Can't they add just one simple package to that? Well pps-tools is clearly special. E.g. it's no longer advertised for 12.04 ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org

Re: [ntp:questions] Can NTP sync within 1ms

2014-04-26 Thread Paul
On Sat, Apr 26, 2014 at 8:30 PM, William Unruh un...@invalid.ca wrote: use the offset scatter as an estimate of the time performace (It is at least some sort of upper bound, but as I have said, not terribly accurate) I suspect you shouting CANNOT is probably overstating the issue. After all

Re: [ntp:questions] Attn Linux distributors - pse include PPS

2014-04-26 Thread Paul
On Sat, Apr 26, 2014 at 5:05 PM, Paul tik-...@bodosom.net wrote: I think it's fair to wonder why the NTP tar ball doesn't include timepps-Linux.h along with others they do include. On Sat, Apr 26, 2014 at 7:54 PM, Harlan Stenn st...@ntp.org wrote: Is there only one version of that file

Re: [ntp:questions] Attn Linux distributors - pse include PPS

2014-04-27 Thread Paul
On Sun, Apr 27, 2014 at 12:57 AM, mike cook michael.c...@sfr.fr wrote: If you look at those, they are included because the API does not ( or didn't ) exist in the OSs whereas it does for Linux I'll admit to being largely uninformed but to me it looks like all the complete (per the RFC)

Re: [ntp:questions] Attn Linux distributors - pse include PPS

2014-04-29 Thread Paul
On Tue, Apr 29, 2014 at 12:12 AM, David Taylor david-tay...@blueyonder.co.uk.invalid wrote: I would find it annoying to have to tell someone Oh, but if you want to pass on the time you need to uninstall what you have now and replace it with the client/server version. Clearly there was

Re: [ntp:questions] Attn Linux distributors - pse include PPS

2014-04-29 Thread Paul
On Tue, Apr 29, 2014 at 4:35 AM, Rob nom...@example.com wrote: This solution provides a lean ntpd program that is fit for most users, and it facilitates the easy addition of refclock drivers. Sure or you just recognize that only one system in a million needs refclock support and assume anyone

Re: [ntp:questions] Attn Linux distributors - pse include PPS

2014-04-29 Thread Paul
On Tue, Apr 29, 2014 at 10:12 AM, David Taylor david-tay...@blueyonder.co.uk.invalid wrote: However, many of my users who use PPS or other ref-clocks run Windows The subject line is Attn LINUX distributors. And it's really about timepps.h ___

Re: [ntp:questions] Attn Linux distributors - pse include PPS

2014-04-29 Thread Paul
On Tue, Apr 29, 2014 at 11:21 AM, David Taylor david-tay...@blueyonder.co.uk.invalid wrote: But the threat of breaking NTP into two separate parts had been mentioned, and it was that which I was addressing Sure. But I really have no idea what Harlan was speaking to there and, for Windows

Re: [ntp:questions] Attn Linux distributors - pse include PPS

2014-04-30 Thread Paul
On Wed, Apr 30, 2014 at 10:13 AM, Martin Burnicki martin.burni...@meinberg.de wrote: If you had a pure client installation you couldn't even send an ntpdate request to that machine just to check the time offsets. Let's try and return to the original issue. timepps.h is not included in core

Re: [ntp:questions] Attn Linux distributors - pse include PPS

2014-04-30 Thread Paul
On Wed, Apr 30, 2014 at 12:14 PM, John Hasler jhas...@newsguy.com wrote: Debian once offered an ntp-simple package It's nice to know it wasn't an imaginary friend. ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org

Re: [ntp:questions] ntp-dev: PPS is a falseticker?

2014-06-13 Thread Paul
On Fri, Jun 13, 2014 at 12:17 PM, Rob nom...@example.com wrote: Why is it so picky? Why is your jitter so high? ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions

Re: [ntp:questions] ntp-dev: PPS is a falseticker?

2014-06-14 Thread Paul
On Sat, Jun 14, 2014 at 8:15 AM, Rob nom...@example.com wrote: It is a strange feature. You must have some method of numbering the PPS delimited seconds. I am always looking for solutions that are stable by themselves, without constant attention and trickery. NTP is stable. There are

Re: [ntp:questions] ntp-dev: PPS is a falseticker?

2014-06-14 Thread Paul
On Sat, Jun 14, 2014 at 12:42 PM, Brian Inglis brian.ing...@systematicsw.ab.ca wrote: There may be no problem with time only messages: the NMEA driver page, shows support of GLL and GGA which provide only time. Other drivers may allow similarly limited information. The date has to be

Re: [ntp:questions] ntp-dev: PPS is a falseticker?

2014-06-14 Thread Paul
On Sat, Jun 14, 2014 at 2:03 PM, Rob nom...@example.com wrote: Everyone seems to think that GPS equates NMEA. Wrong. ... It apparently assumes anyone who has a PPS signal also has a device that provides date and time information, which is wrong. ... But of course the assumptions of the

Re: [ntp:questions] ntp-dev: PPS is a falseticker?

2014-06-14 Thread Paul
On Sat, Jun 14, 2014 at 10:56 AM, Rob nom...@example.com wrote: What is the value of that? It can solve certain problems. ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions

Re: [ntp:questions] ntp-dev: PPS is a falseticker?

2014-06-15 Thread Paul
On Sun, Jun 15, 2014 at 12:11 PM, Rob nom...@example.com wrote: Did you put prefer on the PPS and not on another source? That was the complete output of ntpq. The local clock is marked prefer; it can reliably number the seconds. This is just a demonstration and I think it unwise to run this

Re: [ntp:questions] ntp-dev: PPS is a falseticker?

2014-06-16 Thread Paul
On Mon, Jun 16, 2014 at 3:26 AM, Rob nom...@example.com wrote: Note that we do not have a local clock, only PPS. I'm starting to wonder if you simply refuse to read the documentation or you're just trolling to cause trouble. I want to use that majority vote, not one particular server. Is

Re: [ntp:questions] ntp-dev: PPS is a falseticker?

2014-06-18 Thread Paul
On Wed, Jun 18, 2014 at 4:04 PM, E-Mail Sent to this address will be added to the BlackLists Null@blacklist.anitech-systems.invalid wrote: prefer the PPS, The point was that you can't prefer the PPS driver. While this driver can discipline the time and frequency relative to the PPS source,

Re: [ntp:questions] NTP Servers in virtual machines

2014-06-23 Thread Paul
On Mon, Jun 23, 2014 at 9:54 AM, David Woolley david@ex.djwhome.demon.invalid wrote: On 23/06/14 13:12, Miroslav Lichvar wrote: I think it all depends on the VM implementation It will still be subject to potentially large scheduling delays between NTP packet arrival and processing. Also,

Re: [ntp:questions] NTP Servers in virtual machines

2014-06-24 Thread Paul
On Tue, Jun 24, 2014 at 8:32 AM, Dave Holland d...@biff.org.uk wrote: Rob nom...@example.com wrote: This is not possible on real virtual machine systems. VMware's documentation disagrees: You've inverted the conceit*. If you *define* a real virtual machine hypervisor as one that doesn't run

Re: [ntp:questions] NTP Servers in virtual machines

2014-06-24 Thread Paul
On Tue, Jun 24, 2014 at 9:34 AM, William Unruh un...@invalid.ca wrote: On 2014-06-24, Rob nom...@example.com wrote: It is not possible to run programs on the bare hardware. Since the whole VM is a set of programs running on the bare hardware, this is clearly wrong Yes but ... sometimes we

Re: [ntp:questions] Embedded solutions

2014-07-05 Thread Paul
On Sat, Jul 5, 2014 at 7:37 PM, Jaap Winius jwin...@umrk.nl wrote: Has anyone here managed to turn a relatively cheap, ARM-based embedded system with a serial port into a decent stratum 1 NTP server? Yes (Google NTP Beaglebone or NTP Raspberry Pi I have both) although since that almost

Re: [ntp:questions] Embedded solutions

2014-07-06 Thread Paul
On Sun, Jul 6, 2014 at 2:25 AM, detha de...@foad.co.za wrote: Be sure to include some form of external RTC though. While sometimes useful a real time clock isn't required on a typical* S1 server. By the way, some GPS modules have an RTC which (if battery supported) will produce a reasonable

Re: [ntp:questions] Embedded solutions

2014-07-07 Thread Paul
On Mon, Jul 7, 2014 at 12:39 PM, Rob van der Putten r...@sput.nl wrote: AFAIK the BBB 232 cape doesn't support DCD, so PPS is not available. One normally uses a so-called GPIO pin to read PPS on systems that lack a DCD line or a parallel port. E.g. BeagleBone or Raspberry Pi.

Re: [ntp:questions] Embedded solutions

2014-07-08 Thread Paul
On Mon, Jul 7, 2014 at 4:38 PM, David Lord sn...@lordynet.org wrote: I'd have to look this up but think board using Elan 486 used the on chip high speed timer to timestamp the pps input at a gpio port along with a custom ntpd on FreeBSD to obtain sub us offset. Perhaps you're referring to

Re: [ntp:questions] Embedded solutions

2014-07-08 Thread Paul
On Tue, Jul 8, 2014 at 6:01 AM, Rob van der Putten r...@sput.nl wrote: A lot of people however, by an embedded system, hook op a GPS receiver, find that PPS doesn't work and then just give up. That's appropriate. If you don't know what you're doing and choose not to do the work to learn then

Re: [ntp:questions] Embedded solutions

2014-07-08 Thread Paul
On Tue, Jul 8, 2014 at 1:00 PM, David Taylor david-tay...@blueyonder.co.uk.invalid wrote: I would have supported that, partially because I like the chap what he does, but their server didn't support any of the standard NTP management commands last time I looked I did talk to him about

Re: [ntp:questions] Embedded solutions

2014-07-09 Thread Paul
On Wednesday, July 9, 2014, David Taylor david-tay...@blueyonder.co.uk.invalid wrote: I have to disagree with you there. As I understand, it is an NTP server Quoting the maker: ... Laureline is an embedded SNTP server that receives time from a GPS receiver in the form of a pulse-per-second

Re: [ntp:questions] Embedded solutions

2014-07-09 Thread Paul
On Wed, Jul 9, 2014 at 8:38 AM, Paul tik-...@bodosom.net wrote: ... Laureline is an embedded SNTP server By the way that was the description of the previous generation product -- the original is here: http://www.eevblog.com/forum/oshw/'laureline'-embedded-gps-ntp-server/ The current version

Re: [ntp:questions] Embedded solutions

2014-07-09 Thread Paul
On Wed, Jul 9, 2014 at 11:42 AM, David Taylor david-tay...@blueyonder.co.uk.invalid wrote: However, for me, if someone wants an NTP server something like the Raspberry Pi with GPS/PPS is a good, simple, cheap solution, which is easily managed by the user. No management required can be better

Re: [ntp:questions] Embedded solutions

2014-07-09 Thread Paul
On Wed, Jul 9, 2014 at 8:05 PM, Null wrote: [stuff] Please check the links provided. It would seem the most common problem people have is not being able to think about a network attached reference clock that uses NTP responses rather than PPS + serial stream as a solution to time transfer. It's

Re: [ntp:questions] Embedded solutions

2014-07-10 Thread Paul
On Thu, Jul 10, 2014 at 4:20 AM, David Taylor david-tay...@blueyonder.co.uk.invalid wrote: Simply that different folk have different needs. This true but not nearly as much as people think. But yes different folks have different needs. Despite that in the next sentence You later say: It's a

Re: [ntp:questions] Embedded solutions

2014-07-10 Thread Paul
On Thu, Jul 10, 2014 at 9:07 AM, Brian Utterback brian.utterb...@oracle.com wrote: You still have the keys problem. Keys authenticate the NTP server to the client. How would you manage keys? Are you asking if it supports autokey? It currently doesn't, according to the doc there's one

Re: [ntp:questions] Embedded solutions

2014-07-10 Thread Paul
On Thu, Jul 10, 2014 at 10:17 AM, Brian Utterback brian.utterb...@oracle.com wrote: Well, at least it supports the one key and it is apparently changeable. But NTP authentication is not mutual authentication, nor does it have anything to do with entitlement of the client. I spoke overly

Re: [ntp:questions] LOCL clock reachability not 377?

2014-07-29 Thread Paul
On Tue, Jul 29, 2014 at 10:15 PM, Brian Inglis brian.ing...@systematicsw.ab.ca wrote: As I discovered recently under similar circumstances, offline servers are considered falsetickers, and if you have insufficient other candidates, or fewer than 3, nothing gets selected. I don't think I'm

Re: [ntp:questions] LOCL clock reachability not 377?

2014-07-30 Thread Paul
On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 12:46 AM, Brian Inglis brian.ing...@systematicsw.ab.ca wrote: Not seen this topic mentioned in the last year or more. See my posts about PPS is a falseticker? of Sun Jun 15 14:37:32 UTC 2014 and Wed Jun 18 20:59:03 UTC 2014 . These statuses show the same issue with

Re: [ntp:questions] bad time with a laptop on windows 7

2014-08-02 Thread Paul
On Sat, Aug 2, 2014 at 4:28 AM, David Taylor david-tay...@blueyonder.co.uk.invalid wrote: How is the Accutime device defined to NTP? I Refclock 29 (Palisade driver) is a serial driver using various TSIP versions -- which are binary -- rather than NMEA. It might be necessary to set the mode,

Re: [ntp:questions] bad time with a laptop on windows 7

2014-08-02 Thread Paul
On Sat, Aug 2, 2014 at 5:08 PM, Greg Hennessy greg.henne...@cox.net wrote: Well, I chose the Trible Accutime just to have access to a PPS Your Accutime does provide a TTL PPS signal (by the way, PPS capable GPS receivers are quite inexpensive and common these days) but USB isn't the right way to

Re: [ntp:questions] bad time with a laptop on windows 7

2014-08-03 Thread Paul
On Sun, Aug 3, 2014 at 12:11 AM, Greg Hennessy greg.henne...@cox.net wrote: Since the hardware has a USB connector, what is the right way to import the signal if not USB? I'm sorry, I should have said best or ideal rather than right if your USB driver/converter supports mapping the PPS input to

Re: [ntp:questions] bad time with a laptop on windows 7

2014-08-03 Thread Paul
On Sun, Aug 3, 2014 at 7:03 PM, Greg Hennessy greg.henne...@cox.net wrote: A Trimble Accutime Gold, I beleive it was the starter kit version. There is a box the RS422 plugs into, there is a power connector, and a USB to my laptop. If you have a Starter Kit and you're using the UIM for RS-422

Re: [ntp:questions] bad time with a laptop on windows 7

2014-08-04 Thread Paul
On Sun, Aug 3, 2014 at 4:07 AM, Rob nom...@example.com wrote: Now, USB is more or less a network protocol. The very accurate timing signal from the GPS is converted to a network message over the USB bus that is transferred when time permits, and the moment the message arrives in the PC is

Re: [ntp:questions] ntp-dev conflicts with ntp

2014-08-09 Thread Paul
On Sat, Aug 9, 2014 at 2:52 PM, William Unruh un...@invalid.ca wrote: This is not a problem with ntpd but with Debian. You could look at it that way but if you're building from the ntp tarball there are a number of solutions the problem presented. Which is best depends on preference and

Re: [ntp:questions] LOCL clock reachability not 377?

2014-08-23 Thread Paul
On Sat, Aug 23, 2014 at 6:05 AM, Harlan Stenn st...@ntp.org wrote: No idea what you mean there - we do 64-bit builds (under linux and other OSes) all the time. You might want to check with whoever handles building packages for your distro. You lot are not fulfilling your obligation to Rob.

Re: [ntp:questions] LOCL clock reachability not 377?

2014-08-23 Thread Paul
On Sat, Aug 23, 2014 at 4:00 PM, Harlan Stenn st...@ntp.org wrote: I didn't know that Rob was talking about the debian package stuff from ntp.org until he replied to that message. Look for 'ntp-dev conflicts with ntp' from early this month. Of course there's going to be confusion when 99.99%

Re: [ntp:questions] LOCL clock reachability not 377?

2014-08-25 Thread Paul
On Mon, Aug 25, 2014 at 4:44 AM, Harlan Stenn st...@ntp.org wrote: Personally, I don't understand why we should support these devices, but apparently it's important to some folks and perhaps I just don't understand the issue. You have to draw the line somewhere. Perhaps the ntp developers

Re: [ntp:questions] LOCL clock reachability not 377?

2014-08-25 Thread Paul
On Mon, Aug 25, 2014 at 12:00 PM, Martin Burnicki martin.burni...@meinberg.de wrote: Since current Linux kernels *do* support PPS, and timepps.h is a valid interface to use it, does anyone know *why* timepps.h isn't in the standard set of header files for Linux, and is never going to be? The

Re: [ntp:questions] LOCL clock reachability not 377?

2014-08-26 Thread Paul
On Tue, Aug 26, 2014 at 9:54 AM, Phil W Lee p...@lee-family.me.uk wrote: Paul tik-...@bodosom.net considered Mon, 25 Aug 2014 19:13:45 GMT the perfect time to write: it's just a wrapper (syntactic sugar) around the real API. Thre's not much point in adding that capability without the files

Re: [ntp:questions] PPS as a falseticker!!!

2014-09-02 Thread Paul
On Wed, Aug 27, 2014 at 4:44 PM, juergen perlinger juergen.perlin...@t-online.de wrote: The basic problem is that using a PPS clock and a GPS(NMEA) clock separates what belongs together This is not true. Normally I wouldn't fall prey to there's something wrong on the Internet but this

Re: [ntp:questions] PPS as a falseticker!!!

2014-09-03 Thread Paul
On Wed, Sep 3, 2014 at 4:53 AM, Martin Burnicki martin.burni...@meinberg.de wrote: I think the best solution depends on some details. Sure, but my point was that the bald assertion -- The basic problem is that using a PPS clock and a GPS(NMEA) clock separates what belongs together -- is wrong.

Re: [ntp:questions] About use of PPS in NTP sync

2014-09-03 Thread Paul
On Wed, Sep 3, 2014 at 10:30 AM, William Unruh un...@invalid.ca wrote: Without PPS, the GPS has an accuracy (delay and fluctuation) in the tens of milliseconds range Most of the time but, of course, not always. From my stable NMEA source (also using PPS): remote: oPPS(0) offset: -0.002

Re: [ntp:questions] Questions from people whose return address is gmail, googlemail, Yahoo, etc.

2014-09-07 Thread Paul
On Sat, Sep 6, 2014 at 8:21 AM, Charles Elliott charles.elliott...@comcast.net wrote: Some day, is it going to be important to ISIS to have accurate time to coordinate a massive strike on the electric, railroad, or bridge infrastructure in some Western country? To

Re: [ntp:questions] Questions from people whose return address is gmail, googlemail, Yahoo, etc.

2014-09-08 Thread Paul
On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 7:56 AM, Charles Elliott elliott...@comcast.net wrote: Is it too much to ask that NTP questions list users give identifiable email return addresses Yes. so we can find out where they are located and who they represent? I'd explain more but I don't know who you

Re: [ntp:questions] Compensating for asymmetric delay on a per-peer/server basis?

2014-09-09 Thread Paul
On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 5:11 PM, Rich Wales ri...@richw.org wrote: I checked the manual before asking my question Good start, so many don't -- even years later. I might point you at The Huff-n'-Puff Filter but perhaps you could explain your concern. An error in the small millisecond range is

Re: [ntp:questions] Compensating for asymmetric delay on a per-peer/server basis?

2014-09-11 Thread Paul
On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 6:58 PM, Harlan Stenn st...@ntp.org wrote: The issue is that the huff-n-puff filter will work in the case where a symmetrical delay becomes asymmetric, and it will tolerate or accommodate an asymmetric delay (caused by a large download, for example) for some period of

Re: [ntp:questions] Compensating for asymmetric delay on a per-peer/server basis?

2014-09-11 Thread Paul
On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 12:48 PM, Rob nom...@example.com wrote: That does not work. The asymmetry is not caused by traffic but by modem parameters. The asymmetry is caused by asymmetric latency which is caused (for our purposes) by asymmetric line speeds. Traffic shaping can change various

Re: [ntp:questions] Compensating for asymmetric delay on a per-peer/server basis?

2014-09-11 Thread Paul
On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 2:29 PM, William Unruh un...@invalid.ca wrote: I doubt that NAT would add much assymetry NAT is symmetric. Otherwise it wouldn't work. But I don't see how that's part of anything at hand. And yes the A in ADSL stands for Asymmetric. If you see the word home in

Re: [ntp:questions] Compensating for asymmetric delay on a per-peer/server basis?

2014-09-11 Thread Paul
On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 2:08 PM, mike cook michael.c...@sfr.fr wrote: Did I miss something? On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 3:17 PM, Rich Wales ri...@richw.org wrote: My home LAN is connected to my school's network via a cable modem. If we make the (safe) assumption of a common cable ISP/FiOS in the

Re: [ntp:questions] Compensating for asymmetric delay on a per-peer/server basis?

2014-09-12 Thread Paul
On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 3:50 PM, mike cook michael.c...@sfr.fr wrote: Yup, AsymmetricDSL does have different up/down bit rates. What I really meant was that the difference would not explain his issue. ex: with a 12Mbps down rate and 1.3Mbps up rate, the ratio is around 40usec to 300usec

Re: [ntp:questions] Compensating for asymmetric delay on a per-peer/server basis?

2014-09-12 Thread Paul
On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 11:48 AM, Rob nom...@example.com wrote: No, not link-speed asymmetry but propagation-time asymmetry Sure, you can say that after the fact. Only one other person in this conversation *particularly, not the OP* meant that. As I said the conventional notion of asymmetric

Re: [ntp:questions] Compensating for asymmetric delay on a per-peer/server basis?

2014-09-13 Thread Paul
On Sat, Sep 13, 2014 at 1:46 AM, Rich Wales ri...@richw.org wrote: Any thoughts? Something is wrong with your home machine but there's nothing you can do with stock NTP to fix your offset. As posted earlier I see exactly the same ~2ms offset. However as noted -- given that you're on the same

Re: [ntp:questions] NTP server not reducing polling interval on upstream hosts

2014-10-17 Thread Paul
On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 4:16 PM, Phil W Lee p...@lee-family.me.uk wrote: I don't really want to set the minpoll too high, as it takes such a long time to synchronise after rebooting or restarting ntpd. So you're saying something like server 127.127.22.0 minpoll N server 2610:20:6f15:...

Re: [ntp:questions] NTP server not reducing polling interval on upstream hosts

2014-10-22 Thread Paul
On Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 9:55 PM, Harlan Stenn st...@ntp.org wrote: I'm not saying the current behavior can't be improved, I'm just saying that if there is an issue I want it discussed and tracked in a bug report, not some number of email threads. There's clearly a bug*. I've submitted two

  1   2   3   4   >