Re: [R] ANOVA table and lmer

2010-11-10 Thread JBooth-547
Hi Mark, Thanks for your response. After some detective work I figured out the answer to my question. The models > lm.split=lm(Y~B*V+B*N+V*N) > lmer.split=lmer(Y~V+N+V:N+(1|B)+(1|B:V)+(1|B:N)) contain exactly the same terms. The difference is that blocking factor (B) is fixed in first model b

Re: [R] ANOVA table and lmer

2010-11-05 Thread Dennis Murphy
Hi: Look at the structure of the experiment. The six blocks represent different replications of the experiment. No treatment is assigned at the block level. Within a particular block, there are three plots, to which each variety is randomly assigned to one of them. Ideally, separate randomization

[R] ANOVA table and lmer

2010-11-05 Thread ian m s white
Like James Booth, I find the SSQ and MSQ in lmer output confusing. The F-ratio (1.485) for Variety is the same for aov, lme and lmer, but lmer's mean square for variety is 1.485 times the subplot residual mean square. In the conventional anova table for a split-plot expt, the variety mean square is

Re: [R] ANOVA table and lmer

2010-11-04 Thread Mark Difford
Hi Jim, >> The decomposition of the sum of squares should be the same regardless of >> whether block is treated as random of fixed. Should it? By whose reckoning? The models you are comparing are different. Simple consideration of the terms listed in the (standard) ANOVA output shows that this

[R] ANOVA table and lmer

2010-11-04 Thread James Booth
The following output results from fitting models using lmer and lm to data arising from a split-plot experiment (#320 from "Small Data Sets" by Hand et al. 1994). The data is given at the bottom of this message. My question is why is the sum of squares for variety (V) different in the ANOVA t