[R] Do Users of Nonlinear Mixed Effects Models Know Whether Their Software Really Works?

2005-10-14 Thread Hans Julius Skaug
Dear Andrew and R-list, I guess Fournier is addressing the properties of the numerical routines underlying the various packages, not the statistical properties of the MLE itself. For this purpose using a small tricky dataset makes sense. Clearly, a true unique MLE exists (except in pathological

Re: [R] Do Users of Nonlinear Mixed Effects Models Know Whether Their Software Really Works?

2005-10-14 Thread Andrew Robinson
Dear Hans, these are interesting points. I guess that I'm approaching it from the point of view of a decision: I'd be more comfortable using a fitting routine that has stability under a wide range of identifiable circumstances. Obtaining the MLE exactly in any instance is a function of the data

[R] Do Users of Nonlinear Mixed Effects Models Know Whether Their Software Really Works?

2005-10-13 Thread dave fournier
Do Users of Nonlinear Mixed Effects Models Know Whether Their Software Really Works? Lesaffre et. al. (Appl. Statist. (2001) 50, Part3, pp 325-335) analyzed some simple clinical trials data using a logistic random effects model. Several packages and

Re: [R] Do Users of Nonlinear Mixed Effects Models Know Whether Their Software Really Works?

2005-10-13 Thread Prof Brian Ripley
On Thu, 13 Oct 2005, dave fournier wrote: Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Talk about not being careful! -- Brian D. Ripley, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Professor of Applied Statistics, http://www.stats.ox.ac.uk/~ripley/ University of Oxford, Tel: +44 1865 272861

Re: [R] Do Users of Nonlinear Mixed Effects Models Know Whether Their Software Really Works?

2005-10-13 Thread Andrew Robinson
Dave, that's an interesting start for a comparison. Let me point out some ways that you might construct a compelling argument. Of course, these aren't exhaustive, and others may well provide further depth. 1) If I understand correctly, you're trying to estimate parameters from a real