Re: [R] I am surprised (and a little irritated)
Detlef Steuer wrote: Hi again, ... This new rpm R-base-2.3.0-beta should automatically resolve dependencies. At least it did so on my machine. I would be happy to get a report, if you try to install this one and find difficulties or success!. Most important would be to report missing dependencies. As this is my first try to add those, I`m not sure having catched them all. I have not tried it yet, but when I think about it I think that you have resolved the dependencies part already in 2.2.1. When I had set up YaST according to the hacking link and then opened the R-base rpm file everything went smooth with no intervention on my part. Tom ++ | Tom Backer Johnsen, Psychometrics Unit, Faculty of Psychology | | University of Bergen, Christies gt. 12, N-5015 Bergen, NORWAY | | Tel : +47-5558-9185Fax : +47-5558-9879 | | Email : [EMAIL PROTECTED]URL : http://www.galton.uib.no/ | ++ __ R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
Re: [R] I am surprised (and a little irritated)
Detlef Steuer wrote: Hi, I`m the one to blame for the readme :-) and for providing the rpms. I am sorry, but the note was not primarily directed at you, perhaps (I am not sure) just as much at Linux in general, or Suse, or OpenSuse, or ... In any case, I am sure you do a great job at providing the rpm's. As to the readme, from my point of view there are some information missing. If you encounter such big problems my readme sucks. But I'm open for critisism and will improve on the current situation for the release of R-2.3.0 next monday. Using the word sucks is too strong. But, so far, and from my point of view, there is room for improvement. It would have helped, if I got the error messages you saw. Now I just have to guess. After installing Linux using the OpenSuse download CD's, when I try to install the rpm for R-base, I am informed that libblas.so.3 is not available and the same with libgfortran.so.0. Neither of the two are in the list in the readme. However, I guess (which should not be necessary) that the first refers to blas-3.0-926 in the list, and the second to gcc-fortran-4.0.2 But I have have been unable to locate these elements, neither on the CD's, nor on the dvd included in the book on SUSE Linux 10 by McAllister which is supposed to have the complete OpenSuse 10. I may be wrong there, there are VERY many rpms's on the dvd, but the task is not very simple. The key is probably (perhaps) in the part where you have written: quoteFrom R-2.2.1 on you can use the CRAN-Mirror near you as YAST installation source. Just add $CRANMIRROR/bin/linux/suse/MAJOR.MINOR as a http source as an installation source for yast. Alternatively you may use the main package repository http://fawn.hsu-hh.de/~steuer/SL-10.0-OSS ./quote But I have been unable to see where to use this information with YAST and how. So, what is needed is information for the uninformed. As far as I can see, a possible solution may be in using the apt approach as suggested in the McAllister book. Therefore I have installed the synaptic program as well, but so far (that was late in the day at the office and I do not have a full connection with the Internet and Linux from home yet, only http), it did not help. I'll try again later today. I think you'll be able to find a step by step instruction by the end of the week on CRAN. I am looking forward to that. I hope that my tale of unsuccessful attempts will be useful. Part of the problem is that R and Suse are moving targets. On the opensuse side there are packages, which are not on the CDs but in the online repositories that have to be downloaded seperately. Ranting alone won't help. I am sure you are right about the problem. As I have said before, I do not intend to rant in any way. But I would very much like to see that R is as available on SUSE Linux (and Linux in general) as it is on Windows for newcomers like me. Look here: http://www.thejemreport.com/mambo/content/view/178/42/ for some introductory material. You can add http://fawn.hsu-hh.de/~steuer/SL-10.0-OSS as installation source for R and ESS. That link looks very useful. Perhaps the readme could be somewhat similar? That the installation procedure is different for any flavour of Linux than the one you know from windows should not surprise you. Whatever distribution you'll end up using: the time invested to learn the respective package management system will pay back. Yes, I am sure you are right, and I am not surprised at the differences between the various flavours of Linux. Still, I think that instructions on installing R on a particular distribution should be oriented towards the completely unintiated user. More experienced users can skip the trivial (in their view) parts. But it should be there by default. I have to add that it is not very constructive to say read the manual as some of the responses (not you) to my mail imply. I do not mind to read the manual, but at least I would like to know where to look in the manuals. In any case, would it be possible to persuade SUSE to include R in the installation, at least as an option? Feel free to ask any question on R on SuSE. I would be happy to send you the next readme for review. Thank you. I look forward to that. Tom ++ | Tom Backer Johnsen, Psychometrics Unit, Faculty of Psychology | | University of Bergen, Christies gt. 12, N-5015 Bergen, NORWAY | | Tel : +47-5558-9185Fax : +47-5558-9879 | | Email : [EMAIL PROTECTED]URL : http://www.galton.uib.no/ | ++ __ R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
Re: [R] I am surprised (and a little irritated)
Gabor Csardi wrote: So you don't want to read that manual after all? :) I did not say so, not at all. The point is that it is not very helpful to say Read the manual when the the problem is very much one of not knowing where to look in the manual. Instructions for installing on a particular distribution should be focused on the uninitiated, not the experiences users. The thing is that for Linux you cannot just develop a program which 'just installs' or 'just works' on any Linux system. (Or even if you could do that, it is not worth the effort.) This is because 'Linux' is just an operating system kernel, shells, compilers, window managers, GUI's are NOT part of it. I know. But it should be possible to do so for a few of the major distros. According to some of the responses, some of them even include R in the installation. This is what Linux disributions are for. They are collections of software containing both the kernel and the user tools (compilers, shells, R, etc.). There are many thousends of linux distribution and they are not at all compatible with each other. It might happen that R is packaged differently in a distribution than in another, etc. This is a tough world, but also gives you the freedom of choice, some people like it, some people don't. For a software package like R, it is absolutely impossible to ensure that it can be installed cleanly without any problems on all the (say) two thousend linux distributions. Usually the people who packaged the piece of software (R in this case) for the specific distribution are the ones who can help you with installation problems. (Not always, but very likely with your problem.) And for most suse packages these people are the suse developers. I am not referring to 2000 distributions. I am referring to one of the most popular ones, SUSE. This is why i suggested to post to the suse list. But you got some useful hints from helpful people here, so after all you are lucky. :) Yes, I am grateful (in the most part) for the responses, where Ditlef's one was in particular very constructive. But (a) I am interested in using R, (b) I want to try R on one of the major distributions of Linux (c) I do not succeed in doing so. What I wonder is then: How many others have made the same attempt, not succeeded, and then given up? Which I do not intend to do. I might have overreacted this, but it is really irritating that you just take the result of the really hard work of many people, the R software, for free, and then complain about something which you could solve easily just by searching on google or in the R mailing list archive, or reading the suse manuals. Yes, I think you are being oversensitive. On the contrary, it is because I DO realize that there is an enormous effort involved in the development of R that I am surprised that the final step, making it available to users is so difficult in this particular case. That is, as far as I can see, something that is (or should be) of concern to the advocates of R (where I regard myself as included). That is the reason for my mail to the list. Tom ++ | Tom Backer Johnsen, Psychometrics Unit, Faculty of Psychology | | University of Bergen, Christies gt. 12, N-5015 Bergen, NORWAY | | Tel : +47-5558-9185Fax : +47-5558-9879 | | Email : [EMAIL PROTECTED]URL : http://www.galton.uib.no/ | ++ __ R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
Re: [R] I am surprised (and a little irritated)
Detlef Steuer wrote: On Thu, 20 Apr 2006 10:51:57 +0200 . Sometimes it is very hard to think of the questions a new user has, if you do it yourself on a daily basis for years. I understand that very well. Now I can tell you that I used the info in the Hacking OpenSuse link you provided to the letter, and followed all the instructions in the paragraph with the heading Adding sources to YaST. After that installing R from the R-base rpm was simple. It took a few minutes, but that does not matter. Evidently all the necessary packages were located on from the locations on the net and were installed automatically. So now R is installed and works. The only drawback I can think of is that you have to be online to install. Conclusion: Put something like the info from the link in the readme and other users of R can be recruited from the SUSE world. Thank you! Tom ++ | Tom Backer Johnsen, Psychometrics Unit, Faculty of Psychology | | University of Bergen, Christies gt. 12, N-5015 Bergen, NORWAY | | Tel : +47-5558-9185Fax : +47-5558-9879 | | Email : [EMAIL PROTECTED]URL : http://www.galton.uib.no/ | ++ __ R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
Re: [R] I am surprised (and a little irritated)
Detlef: For your information. A few days ago I ordered SuSE 10, the version corresponding to the old Professional. It arrived today, and was installed. When the R-base rpm was downloaded with Mozilla Firebird, it was only to open it when the download was finished, click the install with YaST button, and everything went smooth. I had to insert the DVD, where it looked like all the other components were found. So, most of the necessary modifications in the readme will refer to the OpenSuse version alone. The commercial version is very simple. Tom ++ | Tom Backer Johnsen, Psychometrics Unit, Faculty of Psychology | | University of Bergen, Christies gt. 12, N-5015 Bergen, NORWAY | | Tel : +47-5558-9185Fax : +47-5558-9879 | | Email : [EMAIL PROTECTED]URL : http://www.galton.uib.no/ | ++ __ R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
[R] I am surprised (and a little irritated)
I have started with using R on Windows, and I am really happy about the system. Now, one of my other ambitions is to learn how to use Linux, so yesterday I downloaded OpenSuse and installed that. The next problem was to try to use R with Linux. And there I met the wall. I've understood that RPM's are somewhat like installing programs on Windows, so that was downloaded and started with YAST. And got some error messages about missing stuff. The first reactions is surprise -- there must be an error in the installation procedure. I have never (well, almost) met an installation procedure on Windows that did not include everything needed. And the installation of R on Windows was very smooth. Then I discover to my big surprise that the readme file says that I need to have eight installed packages. Then it says Most of them are included in a standard install. Sigh. Then the problem next is to find out which of the eight I already have and which ones I need to locate somewhere. Where can I find them I wonder. Somewhere on the net? And that is how far I got today. So, one of the complaints I have is that the instructions for installing R on Linux are very cryptic, and to a large extent assume that you already know Linux. Which I do not. And I expect instructions on installing should be simple and clear. But I am a very experienced computer user, so I really expect to be able to understand instructions. I cannot expect my students to manage what I cannot manage myself, so Linux is out, or at least Suse Linux. And that is a pity, for a number of reasons. The second is just as much surprise at the installation procedure. Under Windows there are any number of installers which make it easy for a programmer to put together all the files needed and place them in the right place. And simeone should get the OpenSuse people to include R in the installation. Tom ++ | Tom Backer Johnsen, Psychometrics Unit, Faculty of Psychology | | University of Bergen, Christies gt. 12, N-5015 Bergen, NORWAY | | Tel : +47-5558-9185Fax : +47-5558-9879 | | Email : [EMAIL PROTECTED]URL : http://www.galton.uib.no/ | ++ __ R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
Re: [R] I am surprised (and a little irritated)
Tom, I'm irritated as well. Your email should go to some suse mailing list, this is a suse problem, it has (almost) nothing to do with R. Unfortunately i can't help you (even if i wanted), because i don't want to read the suse manuals. But if you want to use suse you may consider reading them. Gabor On Wed, Apr 19, 2006 at 09:05:22PM +0200, Tom Backer Johnsen wrote: I have started with using R on Windows, and I am really happy about the system. Now, one of my other ambitions is to learn how to use Linux, so yesterday I downloaded OpenSuse and installed that. The next problem was to try to use R with Linux. And there I met the wall. I've understood that RPM's are somewhat like installing programs on Windows, so that was downloaded and started with YAST. And got some error messages about missing stuff. The first reactions is surprise -- there must be an error in the installation procedure. I have never (well, almost) met an installation procedure on Windows that did not include everything needed. And the installation of R on Windows was very smooth. Then I discover to my big surprise that the readme file says that I need to have eight installed packages. Then it says Most of them are included in a standard install. Sigh. Then the problem next is to find out which of the eight I already have and which ones I need to locate somewhere. Where can I find them I wonder. Somewhere on the net? And that is how far I got today. So, one of the complaints I have is that the instructions for installing R on Linux are very cryptic, and to a large extent assume that you already know Linux. Which I do not. And I expect instructions on installing should be simple and clear. But I am a very experienced computer user, so I really expect to be able to understand instructions. I cannot expect my students to manage what I cannot manage myself, so Linux is out, or at least Suse Linux. And that is a pity, for a number of reasons. The second is just as much surprise at the installation procedure. Under Windows there are any number of installers which make it easy for a programmer to put together all the files needed and place them in the right place. And simeone should get the OpenSuse people to include R in the installation. Tom ++ | Tom Backer Johnsen, Psychometrics Unit, Faculty of Psychology | | University of Bergen, Christies gt. 12, N-5015 Bergen, NORWAY | | Tel : +47-5558-9185Fax : +47-5558-9879 | | Email : [EMAIL PROTECTED]URL : http://www.galton.uib.no/ | ++ __ R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html -- Csardi Gabor [EMAIL PROTECTED]MTA RMKI, ELTE TTK __ R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
Re: [R] I am surprised (and a little irritated)
Better yet, forget reading the SUSE manual. For a user at your level who wants to begin with Linux, but also wants a system that just works use Ubuntu. It is Debian based with the convenient apt-get installation system and very user-friendly. Brett www.ubuntu.com Gabor Csardi wrote: Tom, I'm irritated as well. Your email should go to some suse mailing list, this is a suse problem, it has (almost) nothing to do with R. Unfortunately i can't help you (even if i wanted), because i don't want to read the suse manuals. But if you want to use suse you may consider reading them. Gabor On Wed, Apr 19, 2006 at 09:05:22PM +0200, Tom Backer Johnsen wrote: I have started with using R on Windows, and I am really happy about the system. Now, one of my other ambitions is to learn how to use Linux, so yesterday I downloaded OpenSuse and installed that. The next problem was to try to use R with Linux. And there I met the wall. I've understood that RPM's are somewhat like installing programs on Windows, so that was downloaded and started with YAST. And got some error messages about missing stuff. The first reactions is surprise -- there must be an error in the installation procedure. I have never (well, almost) met an installation procedure on Windows that did not include everything needed. And the installation of R on Windows was very smooth. Then I discover to my big surprise that the readme file says that I need to have eight installed packages. Then it says Most of them are included in a standard install. Sigh. Then the problem next is to find out which of the eight I already have and which ones I need to locate somewhere. Where can I find them I wonder. Somewhere on the net? And that is how far I got today. So, one of the complaints I have is that the instructions for installing R on Linux are very cryptic, and to a large extent assume that you already know Linux. Which I do not. And I expect instructions on installing should be simple and clear. But I am a very experienced computer user, so I really expect to be able to understand instructions. I cannot expect my students to manage what I cannot manage myself, so Linux is out, or at least Suse Linux. And that is a pity, for a number of reasons. The second is just as much surprise at the installation procedure. Under Windows there are any number of installers which make it easy for a programmer to put together all the files needed and place them in the right place. And simeone should get the OpenSuse people to include R in the installation. Tom ++ | Tom Backer Johnsen, Psychometrics Unit, Faculty of Psychology | | University of Bergen, Christies gt. 12, N-5015 Bergen, NORWAY | | Tel : +47-5558-9185Fax : +47-5558-9879 | | Email : [EMAIL PROTECTED]URL : http://www.galton.uib.no/ | ++ __ R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html __ R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
Re: [R] I am surprised (and a little irritated)
FYI: Installing and runing R on Fedora Core 5, as I witnessed, could never be easier. I have started with using R on Windows, and I am really happy about the system. Now, one of my other ambitions is to learn how to use Linux, so yesterday I downloaded OpenSuse and installed that. The next problem was to try to use R with Linux. And there I met the wall. I've understood that RPM's are somewhat like installing programs on Windows, so that was downloaded and started with YAST. And got some error messages about missing stuff. The first reactions is surprise -- there must be an error in the installation procedure. I have never (well, almost) met an installation procedure on Windows that did not include everything needed. And the installation of R on Windows was very smooth. Then I discover to my big surprise that the readme file says that I need to have eight installed packages. Then it says Most of them are included in a standard install. Sigh. Then the problem next is to find out which of the eight I already have and which ones I need to locate somewhere. Where can I find them I wonder. Somewhere on the net? And that is how far I got today. So, one of the complaints I have is that the instructions for installing R on Linux are very cryptic, and to a large extent assume that you already know Linux. Which I do not. And I expect instructions on installing should be simple and clear. But I am a very experienced computer user, so I really expect to be able to understand instructions. I cannot expect my students to manage what I cannot manage myself, so Linux is out, or at least Suse Linux. And that is a pity, for a number of reasons. The second is just as much surprise at the installation procedure. Under Windows there are any number of installers which make it easy for a programmer to put together all the files needed and place them in the right place. And simeone should get the OpenSuse people to include R in the installation. Tom ++ | Tom Backer Johnsen, Psychometrics Unit, Faculty of Psychology | | University of Bergen, Christies gt. 12, N-5015 Bergen, NORWAY | | Tel : +47-5558-9185Fax : +47-5558-9879 | | Email : [EMAIL PROTECTED]URL : http://www.galton.uib.no/ | ++ __ R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html __ R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
Re: [R] I am surprised (and a little irritated) [Broadcast]
Or just go Quantian and be happy: It has R and most of CRAN and BioC packages included. http://dirk.eddelbuettel.com/quantian.html Andy From: Brett Magill Better yet, forget reading the SUSE manual. For a user at your level who wants to begin with Linux, but also wants a system that just works use Ubuntu. It is Debian based with the convenient apt-get installation system and very user-friendly. Brett www.ubuntu.com Gabor Csardi wrote: Tom, I'm irritated as well. Your email should go to some suse mailing list, this is a suse problem, it has (almost) nothing to do with R. Unfortunately i can't help you (even if i wanted), because i don't want to read the suse manuals. But if you want to use suse you may consider reading them. Gabor On Wed, Apr 19, 2006 at 09:05:22PM +0200, Tom Backer Johnsen wrote: I have started with using R on Windows, and I am really happy about the system. Now, one of my other ambitions is to learn how to use Linux, so yesterday I downloaded OpenSuse and installed that. The next problem was to try to use R with Linux. And there I met the wall. I've understood that RPM's are somewhat like installing programs on Windows, so that was downloaded and started with YAST. And got some error messages about missing stuff. The first reactions is surprise -- there must be an error in the installation procedure. I have never (well, almost) met an installation procedure on Windows that did not include everything needed. And the installation of R on Windows was very smooth. Then I discover to my big surprise that the readme file says that I need to have eight installed packages. Then it says Most of them are included in a standard install. Sigh. Then the problem next is to find out which of the eight I already have and which ones I need to locate somewhere. Where can I find them I wonder. Somewhere on the net? And that is how far I got today. So, one of the complaints I have is that the instructions for installing R on Linux are very cryptic, and to a large extent assume that you already know Linux. Which I do not. And I expect instructions on installing should be simple and clear. But I am a very experienced computer user, so I really expect to be able to understand instructions. I cannot expect my students to manage what I cannot manage myself, so Linux is out, or at least Suse Linux. And that is a pity, for a number of reasons. The second is just as much surprise at the installation procedure. Under Windows there are any number of installers which make it easy for a programmer to put together all the files needed and place them in the right place. And simeone should get the OpenSuse people to include R in the installation. Tom ++ | Tom Backer Johnsen, Psychometrics Unit, Faculty of Psychology | | University of Bergen, Christies gt. 12, N-5015 Bergen, NORWAY | | Tel : +47-5558-9185Fax : +47-5558-9879 | | Email : [EMAIL PROTECTED]URL : http://www.galton.uib.no/ | ++ __ R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html __ R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html __ R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
Re: [R] I am surprised (and a little irritated)
Installing R on SuSE 10.0 may be less than trivial for a beginner (I ended up compiling GCC plus 3-4 other things). In case you lose your patience I'd suggest trying Mepis Linux: it's very easy to install and the package management GUI (Synaptic) is great. Installing R together with a bunch of R packages, courtesy of the Debian folks, is a breeze. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom Backer Johnsen Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 3:05 PM To: r-help@stat.math.ethz.ch Subject: [R] I am surprised (and a little irritated) I have started with using R on Windows, and I am really happy about the system. Now, one of my other ambitions is to learn how to use Linux, so yesterday I downloaded OpenSuse and installed that. The next problem was to try to use R with Linux. And there I met the wall. I've understood that RPM's are somewhat like installing programs on Windows, so that was downloaded and started with YAST. And got some error messages about missing stuff. The first reactions is surprise -- there must be an error in the installation procedure. I have never (well, almost) met an installation procedure on Windows that did not include everything needed. And the installation of R on Windows was very smooth. Then I discover to my big surprise that the readme file says that I need to have eight installed packages. Then it says Most of them are included in a standard install. Sigh. Then the problem next is to find out which of the eight I already have and which ones I need to locate somewhere. Where can I find them I wonder. Somewhere on the net? And that is how far I got today. So, one of the complaints I have is that the instructions for installing R on Linux are very cryptic, and to a large extent assume that you already know Linux. Which I do not. And I expect instructions on installing should be simple and clear. But I am a very experienced computer user, so I really expect to be able to understand instructions. I cannot expect my students to manage what I cannot manage myself, so Linux is out, or at least Suse Linux. And that is a pity, for a number of reasons. The second is just as much surprise at the installation procedure. Under Windows there are any number of installers which make it easy for a programmer to put together all the files needed and place them in the right place. And simeone should get the OpenSuse people to include R in the installation. Tom ++ | Tom Backer Johnsen, Psychometrics Unit, Faculty of Psychology | | University of Bergen, Christies gt. 12, N-5015 Bergen, NORWAY | | Tel : +47-5558-9185Fax : +47-5558-9879 | | Email : [EMAIL PROTECTED]URL : http://www.galton.uib.no/ | ++ __ R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html __ R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
Re: [R] I am surprised (and a little irritated)
On Wed, Apr 19, 2006 at 03:47:01PM -0400, Baoqiang Cao wrote: FYI: Installing and runing R on Fedora Core 5, as I witnessed, could never be easier. The thing is that i really believe that installing R on MOST linux distributions takes just 10 seconds. Only you need to know the right command. For that you need to read the manual. But i'm getting offtopic, sorry Gabor -- Csardi Gabor [EMAIL PROTECTED]MTA RMKI, ELTE TTK __ R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
Re: [R] I am surprised (and a little irritated)
[Tom Backer Johnsen] [...] I've understood that RPM's are somewhat like installing programs on Windows, so that was downloaded and started with YAST. [...] Then I discover to my big surprise that the readme file says that I need to have eight installed packages. Then it says Most of them are included in a standard install. [...] someone should get the OpenSuse people to include R in the installation. [Gabor Csardi] I'm irritated as well. Your email should go to some suse mailing list, this is a suse problem, it has (almost) nothing to do with R. We are running regular (Pro?) SuSE systems at various distributions levels on a flurry of machines, but have no experience with OpenSuse, however, and install R from sources on these machines wherever needed. My notes say that *I* should pay attention to have the following packages pre-installed, besides those which are already usual for us: gcc-fortran, libjpeg-devel, readline-devel, tcl-devel, tk-devel I'm not sure about tk-devel. But these are all available on the CDs. R installation from sources goes surprisingly well for us, using SuSE. surprisingly is an euphemism here, astonishingly is more proper, given the size and complexity of R sources, components, and all release engineering. I'm always quite impressed that such software works! There is a tremendous amount of work behind a successful distribution, which many of us do not suspect enough! :-) It forces admiration. -- François Pinard http://pinard.progiciels-bpi.ca __ R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
Re: [R] I am surprised (and a little irritated)
Gabor Csardi [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Tom, I'm irritated as well. Your email should go to some suse mailing list, this is a suse problem, it has (almost) nothing to do with R. Well, there's a maintainer of the SuSE packages, to whom you can complain. It is possible to put better package dependencies in the RPMs (Fedora Extras does this) but there's only the one maintainer on SuSE and it could well be that it would take more time than he has. Unfortunately i can't help you (even if i wanted), because i don't want to read the suse manuals. But if you want to use suse you may consider reading them. Gabor On Wed, Apr 19, 2006 at 09:05:22PM +0200, Tom Backer Johnsen wrote: I have started with using R on Windows, and I am really happy about the system. Now, one of my other ambitions is to learn how to use Linux, so yesterday I downloaded OpenSuse and installed that. The next problem was to try to use R with Linux. And there I met the wall. I've understood that RPM's are somewhat like installing programs on Windows, so that was downloaded and started with YAST. Actually, they're not. On Windows, software typically comes in monolithic blocks. Nearly everything included, because the basic OS provides very little. On Linux distributions, you have a large jigsaw of pieces that fit together in multiple ways. Ideally, each piece contains information about which of the other pieces it needs, but unfortunately there is no automatic way to generate such dependencies, so it is possible to get them wrong. And got some error messages about missing stuff. The first reactions is surprise -- there must be an error in the installation procedure. I have never (well, almost) met an installation procedure on Windows that did not include everything needed. And the installation of R on Windows was very smooth. Then I discover to my big surprise that the readme file says that I need to have eight installed packages. Then it says Most of them are included in a standard install. Sigh. Then the problem next is to find out which of the eight I already have and which ones I need to locate somewhere. Where can I find them I wonder. Somewhere on the net? And that is how far I got today. So, one of the complaints I have is that the instructions for installing R on Linux are very cryptic, and to a large extent assume that you already know Linux. Which I do not. And I expect instructions on installing should be simple and clear. But I am a very experienced computer user, so I really expect to be able to understand instructions. I cannot expect my students to manage what I cannot manage myself, so Linux is out, or at least Suse Linux. And that is a pity, for a number of reasons. The second is just as much surprise at the installation procedure. Under Windows there are any number of installers which make it easy for a programmer to put together all the files needed and place them in the right place. And simeone should get the OpenSuse people to include R in the installation. Tom ++ | Tom Backer Johnsen, Psychometrics Unit, Faculty of Psychology | | University of Bergen, Christies gt. 12, N-5015 Bergen, NORWAY | | Tel : +47-5558-9185Fax : +47-5558-9879 | | Email : [EMAIL PROTECTED]URL : http://www.galton.uib.no/ | ++ __ R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html -- Csardi Gabor [EMAIL PROTECTED]MTA RMKI, ELTE TTK __ R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html -- O__ Peter Dalgaard Øster Farimagsgade 5, Entr.B c/ /'_ --- Dept. of Biostatistics PO Box 2099, 1014 Cph. K (*) \(*) -- University of Copenhagen Denmark Ph: (+45) 35327918 ~~ - ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) FAX: (+45) 35327907 __ R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
Re: [R] I am surprised (and a little irritated)
Hi, I`m the one to blame for the readme :-) and for providing the rpms. If you encounter such big problems my readme sucks. But I'm open for critisism and will improve on the current situation for the release of R-2.3.0 next monday. It would have helped, if I got the error messages you saw. Now I just have to guess. I think you'll be able to find a step by step instruction by the end of the week on CRAN. Part of the problem is that R and Suse are moving targets. On the opensuse side there are packages, which are not on the CDs but in the online repositories that have to be downloaded seperately. Ranting alone won't help. Look here: http://www.thejemreport.com/mambo/content/view/178/42/ for some introductory material. You can add http://fawn.hsu-hh.de/~steuer/SL-10.0-OSS as installation source for R and ESS. That the installation procedure is different for any flavour of Linux than the one you know from windows should not surprise you. Whatever distribution you'll end up using: the time invested to learn the respective package management system will pay back. Feel free to ask any question on R on SuSE. I would be happy to send you the next readme for review. Regards, Detlef On Wed, 19 Apr 2006 21:05:22 +0200 Tom Backer Johnsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have started with using R on Windows, and I am really happy about the system. Now, one of my other ambitions is to learn how to use Linux, so yesterday I downloaded OpenSuse and installed that. The next problem was to try to use R with Linux. And there I met the wall. I've understood that RPM's are somewhat like installing programs on Windows, so that was downloaded and started with YAST. And got some error messages about missing stuff. The first reactions is surprise -- there must be an error in the installation procedure. I have never (well, almost) met an installation procedure on Windows that did not include everything needed. And the installation of R on Windows was very smooth. Then I discover to my big surprise that the readme file says that I need to have eight installed packages. Then it says Most of them are included in a standard install. Sigh. Then the problem next is to find out which of the eight I already have and which ones I need to locate somewhere. Where can I find them I wonder. Somewhere on the net? And that is how far I got today. So, one of the complaints I have is that the instructions for installing R on Linux are very cryptic, and to a large extent assume that you already know Linux. Which I do not. And I expect instructions on installing should be simple and clear. But I am a very experienced computer user, so I really expect to be able to understand instructions. I cannot expect my students to manage what I cannot manage myself, so Linux is out, or at least Suse Linux. And that is a pity, for a number of reasons. The second is just as much surprise at the installation procedure. Under Windows there are any number of installers which make it easy for a programmer to put together all the files needed and place them in the right place. And simeone should get the OpenSuse people to include R in the installation. Tom ++ | Tom Backer Johnsen, Psychometrics Unit, Faculty of Psychology | | University of Bergen, Christies gt. 12, N-5015 Bergen, NORWAY | | Tel : +47-5558-9185Fax : +47-5558-9879 | | Email : [EMAIL PROTECTED]URL : http://www.galton.uib.no/ | ++ __ R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html -- Keinen Gedanken zweimal denken, außer er ist schön. Unbekannte Quelle __ R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
Re: [R] I am surprised (and a little irritated)
Detlef Steuer [EMAIL PROTECTED]write: I`m the one to blame for the readme :-) and for providing the rpms. If you encounter such big problems my readme sucks. But I'm open for critisism and will improve on the current situation for the release of R-2.3.0 next monday. Even as you sit under seige, let me take this opportunity to thank you (and ALL the other countless developers, maintainers and list contributers) for the TIRELESS work you do to make R one of the most robust open source projects I know about. We the 'end users'. are indebted for your energies and talents in ways most of us can never even contemplate. Thanks to you all for your service to the greater good, and for being willing to step up and incrementally strive for excellence. Rob Robert W. Baer, Ph.D. Associate Professor Department of Physiology A. T. Still University of Health Science 800 W. Jefferson St. Kirksville, MO 63501-1497 USA __ R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
Re: [R] I am surprised (and a little irritated)
Robert Baer wrote: Even as you sit under seige, let me take this opportunity to thank you (and ALL the other countless developers, maintainers and list contributers) for the TIRELESS work you do to make R one of the most robust open source projects I know about. We the 'end users'. are indebted for your energies and talents in ways most of us can never even contemplate. Thanks to you all for your service to the greater good, and for being willing to step up and incrementally strive for excellence. Amen, brother!!! Try to imagine (just TRY IT!!!) getting a helpful, humble, ***practical*** response, like that from Detlef Steuer, from the Microsoft(dung) Monolith. cheers, Rolf Turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
Re: [R] I am surprised (and a little irritated)
Suse 10.0 needs to be upgraded. You could look for a very helpful previous posting by: Ro [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Detlef Steuer [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: r-help@stat.math.ethz.ch Date: Sunday 15:57:22 You can get a suse 10.0 RPM at the CRAN site ( http://cran.r-project.org/ ) If you try to install with Yast you will find you are missing two support files which you can get at: http://mirrors.kernel.org/opensuse/distribution/SL-10.0-OSS/inst-source/ the rpm's you will need are: blas-3.0-926.i586.rpm gcc-fortran-4.0.2_20050901-3.i586.rpm then you should be able to install the RPM you got from the cran site On Wednesday 19 April 2006 13:48, Peter Dalgaard wrote: Gabor Csardi [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Tom, I'm irritated as well. Your email should go to some suse mailing list, this is a suse problem, it has (almost) nothing to do with R. Well, there's a maintainer of the SuSE packages, to whom you can complain. It is possible to put better package dependencies in the RPMs (Fedora Extras does this) but there's only the one maintainer on SuSE and it could well be that it would take more time than he has. Unfortunately i can't help you (even if i wanted), because i don't want to read the suse manuals. But if you want to use suse you may consider reading them. Gabor On Wed, Apr 19, 2006 at 09:05:22PM +0200, Tom Backer Johnsen wrote: I have started with using R on Windows, and I am really happy about the system. Now, one of my other ambitions is to learn how to use Linux, so yesterday I downloaded OpenSuse and installed that. The next problem was to try to use R with Linux. And there I met the wall. I've understood that RPM's are somewhat like installing programs on Windows, so that was downloaded and started with YAST. Actually, they're not. On Windows, software typically comes in monolithic blocks. Nearly everything included, because the basic OS provides very little. On Linux distributions, you have a large jigsaw of pieces that fit together in multiple ways. Ideally, each piece contains information about which of the other pieces it needs, but unfortunately there is no automatic way to generate such dependencies, so it is possible to get them wrong. And got some error messages about missing stuff. The first reactions is surprise -- there must be an error in the installation procedure. I have never (well, almost) met an installation procedure on Windows that did not include everything needed. And the installation of R on Windows was very smooth. Then I discover to my big surprise that the readme file says that I need to have eight installed packages. Then it says Most of them are included in a standard install. Sigh. Then the problem next is to find out which of the eight I already have and which ones I need to locate somewhere. Where can I find them I wonder. Somewhere on the net? And that is how far I got today. So, one of the complaints I have is that the instructions for installing R on Linux are very cryptic, and to a large extent assume that you already know Linux. Which I do not. And I expect instructions on installing should be simple and clear. But I am a very experienced computer user, so I really expect to be able to understand instructions. I cannot expect my students to manage what I cannot manage myself, so Linux is out, or at least Suse Linux. And that is a pity, for a number of reasons. The second is just as much surprise at the installation procedure. Under Windows there are any number of installers which make it easy for a programmer to put together all the files needed and place them in the right place. And simeone should get the OpenSuse people to include R in the installation. Tom ++ | Tom Backer Johnsen, Psychometrics Unit, Faculty of Psychology | | University of Bergen, Christies gt. 12, N-5015 Bergen, NORWAY | | Tel : +47-5558-9185Fax : +47-5558-9879 | | Email : [EMAIL PROTECTED]URL : http://www.galton.uib.no/ | ++ __ R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html -- Csardi Gabor [EMAIL PROTECTED]MTA RMKI, ELTE TTK __ R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html __ R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
