Re: [R] Windows standard interface: change working dorectory

2025-12-11 Thread Bert Gunter 
I reply as a passive observer and not one with insight or advice. So
certainly no need to respond.

I am just amazed that in this day and age students of any sort in higher
education institutions of any sort have difficulty understanding the basics
of (the tree structure of) file organization on any sort of computer. I
suspect that this reflects my profound ignorance of how most of today's
young people have interacted with the manifold computational resources that
they use every day through brilliantly crafted UI's. Still, I would have
assumed that such knowledge would be basic to any "higher education" these
days. Silly me...

Cheers,
Bert


On Thu, Dec 11, 2025 at 4:54 PM Robert Baer via R-help 
wrote:

> One of the things that has really simplified things for my students is
> using RStudio to run R, and then always creating (working within) an
> RProject.
>
> The location of the RProject becomes the default location (home folder)
> for all related files in the project.  It dispenses with having to teach
> the students too much about absolute and relative paths, and it is very
> flexible in the sense that you can move a folder from one drive to
> another or from one computer to another, and things still work as long
> as you start R (RStudio) with the same project selected.
>
> I had no end of agony with "path confusion" before using this approach.
>
> Rob
>
> On 12/8/2025 5:22 AM, Calboli Federico (LUKE) wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > I need to provide the simplest possible indication to R users with
> either windows or macos machines on how to change working directory. Using
> setwd() will not work because I cannot trust them to even understand the
> concept of working directory.
> >
> > On macos it is possible to have a GUI menu (the standard R GUI) that
> would allow the users to "click their way to where their data files are",
> is there such facility for the windows R GUI (the out-of-the-box one)? I
> have no access to windows machines, so I cannot check, but I am sure some
> people will use a windows laptop.
> >
> > F
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Federico Calboli
> >
> > Erityisasiantuntija, tutkimusrahoitus
> >
> > Palveluryhm�t
> >
> > Luonnonvarakeskus
> >
> >   [[alternative HTML version deleted]]
> >
> >
> > __
> > [email protected] mailing list -- To UNSUBSCRIBE and more, see
> > https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
> > PLEASE do read the posting guide
> https://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
> > and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
>
> --
> ---
> Robert W. Baer, Ph.D.
> Professor of Physiology
> Kirksville College of Osteopathic Medicine
> A.T. Still Univerisity of Health Sciences
> 800 W. Jefferson St.
> Kirksville, MO 63501
>
> __
> [email protected] mailing list -- To UNSUBSCRIBE and more, see
> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
> PLEASE do read the posting guide
> https://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
> and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
>

[[alternative HTML version deleted]]

__
[email protected] mailing list -- To UNSUBSCRIBE and more, see
https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
PLEASE do read the posting guide https://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.

Re: [R] Windows standard interface: change working dorectory

2025-12-11 Thread Robert Baer via R-help 
One of the things that has really simplified things for my students is 
using RStudio to run R, and then always creating (working within) an 
RProject.


The location of the RProject becomes the default location (home folder) 
for all related files in the project.  It dispenses with having to teach 
the students too much about absolute and relative paths, and it is very 
flexible in the sense that you can move a folder from one drive to 
another or from one computer to another, and things still work as long 
as you start R (RStudio) with the same project selected.


I had no end of agony with "path confusion" before using this approach.

Rob

On 12/8/2025 5:22 AM, Calboli Federico (LUKE) wrote:

Hello,

I need to provide the simplest possible indication to R users with either 
windows or macos machines on how to change working directory. Using setwd() 
will not work because I cannot trust them to even understand the concept of 
working directory.

On macos it is possible to have a GUI menu (the standard R GUI) that would allow the 
users to "click their way to where their data files are", is there such 
facility for the windows R GUI (the out-of-the-box one)? I have no access to windows 
machines, so I cannot check, but I am sure some people will use a windows laptop.

F


--

Federico Calboli

Erityisasiantuntija, tutkimusrahoitus

Palveluryhm�t

Luonnonvarakeskus

[[alternative HTML version deleted]]


__
[email protected] mailing list -- To UNSUBSCRIBE and more, see
https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
PLEASE do read the posting guide https://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.


--
---
Robert W. Baer, Ph.D.
Professor of Physiology
Kirksville College of Osteopathic Medicine
A.T. Still Univerisity of Health Sciences
800 W. Jefferson St.
Kirksville, MO 63501

__
[email protected] mailing list -- To UNSUBSCRIBE and more, see
https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
PLEASE do read the posting guide https://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.

Re: [R] Windows standard interface: change working dorectory

2025-12-08 Thread Ebert,Timothy Aaron 
This sounds more like there are some hourly employees that you do not want to 
train but they need to produce a graph for you. In this case I would use a 
package in R called Shiny to create an app. The worker opens the app, types in 
the file name and the app sends you the graph. The employee will never see the 
R code. This level of use in Shiny is about as basic as it gets. It costs you 
time to learn Shiny basics, but it will save you time in not having to train 
employees. If written properly, the employee only needs to know how to find 
their data file (which probably should be saved in your company TEAMS folder, 
and not some personal computer).

An R user writes code (good or bad but writes code) and therefore does 
computing. It sounds like your employees would not qualify as R users and you 
want to keep it this way. Lock the R code in a Shine app and you do not have to 
worry about any of this.

See:
https://shiny.posit.co/

Tim


From: Calboli Federico (LUKE) 
Sent: Monday, December 8, 2025 9:24 AM
To: Ebert,Timothy Aaron ; [email protected]
Subject: Re: Windows standard interface: change working dorectory

[External Email]
As much I might agree with you in theory, people here are just using R to 
produce some graphs using one line of code I generated, so they can do the job 
they are paid to do (which is not computing). Producing said graph and its 
permutations would be more complex in any other way, and I want to make sure 
the instructions I printed out for them are as simple, accessible, and require 
the least amount of supervision.

F



--

Federico Calboli

Erityisasiantuntija, tutkimusrahoitus

Palveluryhmät

Luonnonvarakeskus
People who use computers should understand file names. It does not matter if 
you call them folders or directories they are the same animal.
I have a file called "my_file"
Where does it live? "On my computer" is like saying my mailing address is 
"Earth."

All files have a memory location in your computer where the computer can find 
the file contents. All names consist of two, but more commonly three parts: 
location, name, type. These answer "where is the file," "what is it called," 
and "what kind of file?" The format for location is disk drive followed by an 
ordered list of (directories or folders) from outer to innermost. I am on 
Windows, so for me this looks like c://dir1/dir2/dir3/. In words, I look on my 
hard drive named "C" and will find a directory called dir1. Inside dir1 will be 
dir2 and inside that will be dir3 where I can find my file.

File names typically end with a period followed by the type of file. .xlsx for 
an Excel file, .txt for a text file, .csv for comma separated values file, docx 
for a Microsoft word file. Most of the time on Windows the extension is hidden, 
and the path is shown at the top of the window. This was all very obvious in 
the old days working with DOS, but windows made things "easy" and took this 
away from the default output. In any case, files are all saved something like 
this: "c://dir1/dir2/dir3/my_file.docx".

I have multiple projects in R. I could change the working directory in R 
multiple times each day and try to keep up. I am bad at that. My solution is 
that I never change the working directory, so all read and write statements 
include the full file name, path and all. I can then switch between projects 
and not worry about where to read or save things and I do not sometimes get 
files saved in strange places. One could set the working directory at the start 
of each program, but that assumes that I want to always start working at the 
top of each program. I have not had much luck with that approach.

I sometimes write software for others to use. In this case I give users a popup 
window where they select their file using a graphical interface and then the 
program extracts the path from where the user got the file. This path is then 
added to the file name the user provides to save output. In this way I do not 
have to worry about the difference between "c://dir1/dir2/dir3/my_file.docx" 
and "c:\\dir1\dir2\dir3\my_file.docx"

Regards,
Tim

-Original Message-
From: R-help 
mailto:[email protected]>> On Behalf 
Of Calboli Federico (LUKE)
Sent: Monday, December 8, 2025 6:22 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [R] Windows standard interface: change working dorectory

[External Email]

Hello,

I need to provide the simplest possible indication to R users with either 
windows or macos machines on how to change working directory. Using setwd() 
will not work because I cannot trust them to even understand the concept of 
working directory.

On macos it is possible to have a GUI menu (the standard R GUI) that would 
allow the users to "click their way to where their data files are", is there 
such facility for the windows R GUI (the out-of-the-box one)? I have no access 
to windows machines, so I cannot check, but I am sure some people will use a 
windows lapto

Re: [R] Windows standard interface: change working dorectory

2025-12-08 Thread Michael Dewey 
If they are going to run a script which you have prepared for them then 
they can click on File and then click on Source R code which opens the 
same Explorer type window but only shows runnable files.


From the responses you are getting I think most people on this list do 
not come into contact with people who are so ignorant of computing 
basics. They are fortunate.


Michael

On 08/12/2025 17:27, Calboli Federico (LUKE) wrote:

Jeff,

users will get the files they need to fill in on Teams, and will save them 
wherever they like. They will need to use R for image creation, but they are 
not trained for computing so they know where their stuff is, but I do not mean 
to expect they can use setwd() to set the working directory, or start with 
concepts such as working directory. Now they have the option of clicking their 
way to their files, they have been told their outputs will be next to those, 
and that is it.

I have work to do, I do not run a circus. My users have now the ability to run 
the scripts I wrote for them, get the images they need without the need for 
direct support, and we can go forth and get the stuff we get paid to do done. 
Sorry if using R as a tool for work offends.

F


--

Federico Calboli

Erityisasiantuntija, tutkimusrahoitus

Palveluryhmät

Luonnonvarakeskus

Files come from somewhere. Where do the files you are referring to come from? 
Where will it go after you are done with it?

Most of the time files that inexperienced users deal with come from downloads 
using a web browser, and most of the time they are directed into a Downloads 
folder. Whether you use that or the desktop, if the files build up over time 
then that group of similar files will get larger without bound. Will you 
support deleting the files once you are done with them?

R can read files from a URL directly almost as easily as it can from a 
directory. Can you make R aware of that location?

If you have another program generating the file, can you have it put it into an 
agreeable place? If so, a temporary directory or filename may be sufficient, 
since the OS will clean that out occasionally (though cleaning up after 
yourself is a better solution.


On December 8, 2025 6:24:29 AM PST, "Calboli Federico (LUKE)" 
 wrote:

As much I might agree with you in theory, people here are just using R to 
produce some graphs using one line of code I generated, so they can do the job 
they are paid to do (which is not computing). Producing said graph and its 
permutations would be more complex in any other way, and I want to make sure 
the instructions I printed out for them are as simple, accessible, and require 
the least amount of supervision.

F


--

Federico Calboli

Erityisasiantuntija, tutkimusrahoitus

Palveluryhmät

Luonnonvarakeskus

People who use computers should understand file names. It does not matter if 
you call them folders or directories they are the same animal.
I have a file called "my_file"
Where does it live? "On my computer" is like saying my mailing address is 
"Earth."

All files have a memory location in your computer where the computer can find the file contents. All names consist of 
two, but more commonly three parts: location, name, type. These answer "where is the file," "what is it 
called," and "what kind of file?" The format for location is disk drive followed by an ordered list of 
(directories or folders) from outer to innermost. I am on Windows, so for me this looks like c://dir1/dir2/dir3/. In 
words, I look on my hard drive named "C" and will find a directory called dir1. Inside dir1 will be dir2 and 
inside that will be dir3 where I can find my file.

File names typically end with a period followed by the type of file. .xlsx for an Excel file, .txt 
for a text file, .csv for comma separated values file, docx for a Microsoft word file. Most of the 
time on Windows the extension is hidden, and the path is shown at the top of the window. This was 
all very obvious in the old days working with DOS, but windows made things "easy" and 
took this away from the default output. In any case, files are all saved something like this: 
"c://dir1/dir2/dir3/my_file.docx".

I have multiple projects in R. I could change the working directory in R 
multiple times each day and try to keep up. I am bad at that. My solution is 
that I never change the working directory, so all read and write statements 
include the full file name, path and all. I can then switch between projects 
and not worry about where to read or save things and I do not sometimes get 
files saved in strange places. One could set the working directory at the start 
of each program, but that assumes that I want to always start working at the 
top of each program. I have not had much luck with that approach.

I sometimes write software for others to use. In this case I give users a popup window where they 
select their file using a graphical interface and then the program extracts the path from where the 
user got the file. This p

Re: [R] Windows standard interface: change working dorectory

2025-12-08 Thread Erin Hodgess 
Hello!

What about file.choose?

Would that help?

Erin Hodgess, PhD
mailto: [email protected]


On Mon, Dec 8, 2025 at 10:28 AM Calboli Federico (LUKE) <
[email protected]> wrote:

> Jeff,
>
> users will get the files they need to fill in on Teams, and will save them
> wherever they like. They will need to use R for image creation, but they
> are not trained for computing so they know where their stuff is, but I do
> not mean to expect they can use setwd() to set the working directory, or
> start with concepts such as working directory. Now they have the option of
> clicking their way to their files, they have been told their outputs will
> be next to those, and that is it.
>
> I have work to do, I do not run a circus. My users have now the ability to
> run the scripts I wrote for them, get the images they need without the need
> for direct support, and we can go forth and get the stuff we get paid to do
> done. Sorry if using R as a tool for work offends.
>
> F
>
>
> --
>
> Federico Calboli
>
> Erityisasiantuntija, tutkimusrahoitus
>
> Palveluryhmät
>
> Luonnonvarakeskus
>
> Files come from somewhere. Where do the files you are referring to come
> from? Where will it go after you are done with it?
>
> Most of the time files that inexperienced users deal with come from
> downloads using a web browser, and most of the time they are directed into
> a Downloads folder. Whether you use that or the desktop, if the files build
> up over time then that group of similar files will get larger without
> bound. Will you support deleting the files once you are done with them?
>
> R can read files from a URL directly almost as easily as it can from a
> directory. Can you make R aware of that location?
>
> If you have another program generating the file, can you have it put it
> into an agreeable place? If so, a temporary directory or filename may be
> sufficient, since the OS will clean that out occasionally (though cleaning
> up after yourself is a better solution.
>
>
> On December 8, 2025 6:24:29 AM PST, "Calboli Federico (LUKE)" <
> [email protected]> wrote:
>
> As much I might agree with you in theory, people here are just using R to
> produce some graphs using one line of code I generated, so they can do the
> job they are paid to do (which is not computing). Producing said graph and
> its permutations would be more complex in any other way, and I want to make
> sure the instructions I printed out for them are as simple, accessible, and
> require the least amount of supervision.
>
> F
>
>
> --
>
> Federico Calboli
>
> Erityisasiantuntija, tutkimusrahoitus
>
> Palveluryhmät
>
> Luonnonvarakeskus
>
> People who use computers should understand file names. It does not matter
> if you call them folders or directories they are the same animal.
> I have a file called "my_file"
> Where does it live? "On my computer" is like saying my mailing address is
> "Earth."
>
> All files have a memory location in your computer where the computer can
> find the file contents. All names consist of two, but more commonly three
> parts: location, name, type. These answer "where is the file," "what is it
> called," and "what kind of file?" The format for location is disk drive
> followed by an ordered list of (directories or folders) from outer to
> innermost. I am on Windows, so for me this looks like c://dir1/dir2/dir3/.
> In words, I look on my hard drive named "C" and will find a directory
> called dir1. Inside dir1 will be dir2 and inside that will be dir3 where I
> can find my file.
>
> File names typically end with a period followed by the type of file. .xlsx
> for an Excel file, .txt for a text file, .csv for comma separated values
> file, docx for a Microsoft word file. Most of the time on Windows the
> extension is hidden, and the path is shown at the top of the window. This
> was all very obvious in the old days working with DOS, but windows made
> things "easy" and took this away from the default output. In any case,
> files are all saved something like this: "c://dir1/dir2/dir3/my_file.docx".
>
> I have multiple projects in R. I could change the working directory in R
> multiple times each day and try to keep up. I am bad at that. My solution
> is that I never change the working directory, so all read and write
> statements include the full file name, path and all. I can then switch
> between projects and not worry about where to read or save things and I do
> not sometimes get files saved in strange places. One could set the working
> directory at the start of each program, but that assumes that I want to
> always start working at the top of each program. I have not had much luck
> with that approach.
>
> I sometimes write software for others to use. In this case I give users a
> popup window where they select their file using a graphical interface and
> then the program extracts the path from where the user got the file. This
> path is then added to the file name the user provides to save output. In
>

Re: [R] Windows standard interface: change working dorectory

2025-12-08 Thread Calboli Federico (LUKE) 
Jeff,

users will get the files they need to fill in on Teams, and will save them 
wherever they like. They will need to use R for image creation, but they are 
not trained for computing so they know where their stuff is, but I do not mean 
to expect they can use setwd() to set the working directory, or start with 
concepts such as working directory. Now they have the option of clicking their 
way to their files, they have been told their outputs will be next to those, 
and that is it.

I have work to do, I do not run a circus. My users have now the ability to run 
the scripts I wrote for them, get the images they need without the need for 
direct support, and we can go forth and get the stuff we get paid to do done. 
Sorry if using R as a tool for work offends.

F


--

Federico Calboli

Erityisasiantuntija, tutkimusrahoitus

Palveluryhmät

Luonnonvarakeskus

Files come from somewhere. Where do the files you are referring to come from? 
Where will it go after you are done with it?

Most of the time files that inexperienced users deal with come from downloads 
using a web browser, and most of the time they are directed into a Downloads 
folder. Whether you use that or the desktop, if the files build up over time 
then that group of similar files will get larger without bound. Will you 
support deleting the files once you are done with them?

R can read files from a URL directly almost as easily as it can from a 
directory. Can you make R aware of that location?

If you have another program generating the file, can you have it put it into an 
agreeable place? If so, a temporary directory or filename may be sufficient, 
since the OS will clean that out occasionally (though cleaning up after 
yourself is a better solution.


On December 8, 2025 6:24:29 AM PST, "Calboli Federico (LUKE)" 
 wrote:

As much I might agree with you in theory, people here are just using R to 
produce some graphs using one line of code I generated, so they can do the job 
they are paid to do (which is not computing). Producing said graph and its 
permutations would be more complex in any other way, and I want to make sure 
the instructions I printed out for them are as simple, accessible, and require 
the least amount of supervision.

F


--

Federico Calboli

Erityisasiantuntija, tutkimusrahoitus

Palveluryhmät

Luonnonvarakeskus

People who use computers should understand file names. It does not matter if 
you call them folders or directories they are the same animal.
I have a file called "my_file"
Where does it live? "On my computer" is like saying my mailing address is 
"Earth."

All files have a memory location in your computer where the computer can find 
the file contents. All names consist of two, but more commonly three parts: 
location, name, type. These answer "where is the file," "what is it called," 
and "what kind of file?" The format for location is disk drive followed by an 
ordered list of (directories or folders) from outer to innermost. I am on 
Windows, so for me this looks like c://dir1/dir2/dir3/. In words, I look on my 
hard drive named "C" and will find a directory called dir1. Inside dir1 will be 
dir2 and inside that will be dir3 where I can find my file.

File names typically end with a period followed by the type of file. .xlsx for 
an Excel file, .txt for a text file, .csv for comma separated values file, docx 
for a Microsoft word file. Most of the time on Windows the extension is hidden, 
and the path is shown at the top of the window. This was all very obvious in 
the old days working with DOS, but windows made things "easy" and took this 
away from the default output. In any case, files are all saved something like 
this: "c://dir1/dir2/dir3/my_file.docx".

I have multiple projects in R. I could change the working directory in R 
multiple times each day and try to keep up. I am bad at that. My solution is 
that I never change the working directory, so all read and write statements 
include the full file name, path and all. I can then switch between projects 
and not worry about where to read or save things and I do not sometimes get 
files saved in strange places. One could set the working directory at the start 
of each program, but that assumes that I want to always start working at the 
top of each program. I have not had much luck with that approach.

I sometimes write software for others to use. In this case I give users a popup 
window where they select their file using a graphical interface and then the 
program extracts the path from where the user got the file. This path is then 
added to the file name the user provides to save output. In this way I do not 
have to worry about the difference between "c://dir1/dir2/dir3/my_file.docx" 
and "c:\\dir1\dir2\dir3\my_file.docx"

Regards,
Tim

-Original Message-
From: R-help  On Behalf Of Calboli Federico (LUKE)
Sent: Monday, December 8, 2025 6:22 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [R] Windows standard interface: change working dorectory

[

Re: [R] Windows standard interface: change working dorectory

2025-12-08 Thread Jeff Newmiller via R-help 
Files come from somewhere. Where do the files you are referring to come from? 
Where will it go after you are done with it?

Most of the time files that inexperienced users deal with come from downloads 
using a web browser, and most of the time they are directed into a Downloads 
folder. Whether you use that or the desktop, if the files build up over time 
then that group of similar files will get larger without bound. Will you 
support deleting the files once you are done with them?

R can read files from a URL directly almost as easily as it can from a 
directory. Can you make R aware of that location? 

If you have another program generating the file, can you have it put it into an 
agreeable place? If so, a temporary directory or filename may be sufficient, 
since the OS will clean that out occasionally (though cleaning up after 
yourself is a better solution.

On December 8, 2025 6:24:29 AM PST, "Calboli Federico (LUKE)" 
 wrote:
>As much I might agree with you in theory, people here are just using R to 
>produce some graphs using one line of code I generated, so they can do the job 
>they are paid to do (which is not computing). Producing said graph and its 
>permutations would be more complex in any other way, and I want to make sure 
>the instructions I printed out for them are as simple, accessible, and require 
>the least amount of supervision.
>
>F
>
>
>--
>
>Federico Calboli
>
>Erityisasiantuntija, tutkimusrahoitus
>
>Palveluryhmät
>
>Luonnonvarakeskus
>
>People who use computers should understand file names. It does not matter if 
>you call them folders or directories they are the same animal.
>I have a file called "my_file"
>Where does it live? "On my computer" is like saying my mailing address is 
>"Earth."
>
>All files have a memory location in your computer where the computer can find 
>the file contents. All names consist of two, but more commonly three parts: 
>location, name, type. These answer "where is the file," "what is it called," 
>and "what kind of file?" The format for location is disk drive followed by an 
>ordered list of (directories or folders) from outer to innermost. I am on 
>Windows, so for me this looks like c://dir1/dir2/dir3/. In words, I look on my 
>hard drive named "C" and will find a directory called dir1. Inside dir1 will 
>be dir2 and inside that will be dir3 where I can find my file.
>
>File names typically end with a period followed by the type of file. .xlsx for 
>an Excel file, .txt for a text file, .csv for comma separated values file, 
>docx for a Microsoft word file. Most of the time on Windows the extension is 
>hidden, and the path is shown at the top of the window. This was all very 
>obvious in the old days working with DOS, but windows made things "easy" and 
>took this away from the default output. In any case, files are all saved 
>something like this: "c://dir1/dir2/dir3/my_file.docx".
>
>I have multiple projects in R. I could change the working directory in R 
>multiple times each day and try to keep up. I am bad at that. My solution is 
>that I never change the working directory, so all read and write statements 
>include the full file name, path and all. I can then switch between projects 
>and not worry about where to read or save things and I do not sometimes get 
>files saved in strange places. One could set the working directory at the 
>start of each program, but that assumes that I want to always start working at 
>the top of each program. I have not had much luck with that approach.
>
>I sometimes write software for others to use. In this case I give users a 
>popup window where they select their file using a graphical interface and then 
>the program extracts the path from where the user got the file. This path is 
>then added to the file name the user provides to save output. In this way I do 
>not have to worry about the difference between 
>"c://dir1/dir2/dir3/my_file.docx" and "c:\\dir1\dir2\dir3\my_file.docx"
>
>Regards,
>Tim
>
>-Original Message-
>From: R-help  On Behalf Of Calboli Federico 
>(LUKE)
>Sent: Monday, December 8, 2025 6:22 AM
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: [R] Windows standard interface: change working dorectory
>
>[External Email]
>
>Hello,
>
>I need to provide the simplest possible indication to R users with either 
>windows or macos machines on how to change working directory. Using setwd() 
>will not work because I cannot trust them to even understand the concept of 
>working directory.
>
>On macos it is possible to have a GUI menu (the standard R GUI) that would 
>allow the users to "click their way to where their data files are", is there 
>such facility for the windows R GUI (the out-of-the-box one)? I have no access 
>to windows machines, so I cannot check, but I am sure some people will use a 
>windows laptop.
>
>F
>
>
>--
>
>Federico Calboli
>
>Erityisasiantuntija, tutkimusrahoitus
>
>Palveluryhm�t
>
>Luonnonvarakeskus
>
>[[alternative HTML version deleted]]
>
>
>   [[alternative HT

Re: [R] Windows standard interface: change working dorectory

2025-12-08 Thread Calboli Federico (LUKE) 
As much I might agree with you in theory, people here are just using R to 
produce some graphs using one line of code I generated, so they can do the job 
they are paid to do (which is not computing). Producing said graph and its 
permutations would be more complex in any other way, and I want to make sure 
the instructions I printed out for them are as simple, accessible, and require 
the least amount of supervision.

F


--

Federico Calboli

Erityisasiantuntija, tutkimusrahoitus

Palveluryhmät

Luonnonvarakeskus

People who use computers should understand file names. It does not matter if 
you call them folders or directories they are the same animal.
I have a file called "my_file"
Where does it live? "On my computer" is like saying my mailing address is 
"Earth."

All files have a memory location in your computer where the computer can find 
the file contents. All names consist of two, but more commonly three parts: 
location, name, type. These answer "where is the file," "what is it called," 
and "what kind of file?" The format for location is disk drive followed by an 
ordered list of (directories or folders) from outer to innermost. I am on 
Windows, so for me this looks like c://dir1/dir2/dir3/. In words, I look on my 
hard drive named "C" and will find a directory called dir1. Inside dir1 will be 
dir2 and inside that will be dir3 where I can find my file.

File names typically end with a period followed by the type of file. .xlsx for 
an Excel file, .txt for a text file, .csv for comma separated values file, docx 
for a Microsoft word file. Most of the time on Windows the extension is hidden, 
and the path is shown at the top of the window. This was all very obvious in 
the old days working with DOS, but windows made things "easy" and took this 
away from the default output. In any case, files are all saved something like 
this: "c://dir1/dir2/dir3/my_file.docx".

I have multiple projects in R. I could change the working directory in R 
multiple times each day and try to keep up. I am bad at that. My solution is 
that I never change the working directory, so all read and write statements 
include the full file name, path and all. I can then switch between projects 
and not worry about where to read or save things and I do not sometimes get 
files saved in strange places. One could set the working directory at the start 
of each program, but that assumes that I want to always start working at the 
top of each program. I have not had much luck with that approach.

I sometimes write software for others to use. In this case I give users a popup 
window where they select their file using a graphical interface and then the 
program extracts the path from where the user got the file. This path is then 
added to the file name the user provides to save output. In this way I do not 
have to worry about the difference between "c://dir1/dir2/dir3/my_file.docx" 
and "c:\\dir1\dir2\dir3\my_file.docx"

Regards,
Tim

-Original Message-
From: R-help  On Behalf Of Calboli Federico (LUKE)
Sent: Monday, December 8, 2025 6:22 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [R] Windows standard interface: change working dorectory

[External Email]

Hello,

I need to provide the simplest possible indication to R users with either 
windows or macos machines on how to change working directory. Using setwd() 
will not work because I cannot trust them to even understand the concept of 
working directory.

On macos it is possible to have a GUI menu (the standard R GUI) that would 
allow the users to "click their way to where their data files are", is there 
such facility for the windows R GUI (the out-of-the-box one)? I have no access 
to windows machines, so I cannot check, but I am sure some people will use a 
windows laptop.

F


--

Federico Calboli

Erityisasiantuntija, tutkimusrahoitus

Palveluryhm�t

Luonnonvarakeskus

[[alternative HTML version deleted]]


[[alternative HTML version deleted]]

__
[email protected] mailing list -- To UNSUBSCRIBE and more, see
https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
PLEASE do read the posting guide https://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.

Re: [R] Windows standard interface: change working dorectory

2025-12-08 Thread Ebert,Timothy Aaron 
People who use computers should understand file names. It does not matter if 
you call them folders or directories they are the same animal.
I have a file called "my_file"
Where does it live? "On my computer" is like saying my mailing address is 
"Earth." 

All files have a memory location in your computer where the computer can find 
the file contents. All names consist of two, but more commonly three parts: 
location, name, type. These answer "where is the file," "what is it called," 
and "what kind of file?" The format for location is disk drive followed by an 
ordered list of (directories or folders) from outer to innermost. I am on 
Windows, so for me this looks like c://dir1/dir2/dir3/. In words, I look on my 
hard drive named "C" and will find a directory called dir1. Inside dir1 will be 
dir2 and inside that will be dir3 where I can find my file.

File names typically end with a period followed by the type of file. .xlsx for 
an Excel file, .txt for a text file, .csv for comma separated values file, docx 
for a Microsoft word file. Most of the time on Windows the extension is hidden, 
and the path is shown at the top of the window. This was all very obvious in 
the old days working with DOS, but windows made things "easy" and took this 
away from the default output. In any case, files are all saved something like 
this: "c://dir1/dir2/dir3/my_file.docx". 

I have multiple projects in R. I could change the working directory in R 
multiple times each day and try to keep up. I am bad at that. My solution is 
that I never change the working directory, so all read and write statements 
include the full file name, path and all. I can then switch between projects 
and not worry about where to read or save things and I do not sometimes get 
files saved in strange places. One could set the working directory at the start 
of each program, but that assumes that I want to always start working at the 
top of each program. I have not had much luck with that approach.

I sometimes write software for others to use. In this case I give users a popup 
window where they select their file using a graphical interface and then the 
program extracts the path from where the user got the file. This path is then 
added to the file name the user provides to save output. In this way I do not 
have to worry about the difference between "c://dir1/dir2/dir3/my_file.docx" 
and "c:\\dir1\dir2\dir3\my_file.docx"

Regards,
Tim

-Original Message-
From: R-help  On Behalf Of Calboli Federico (LUKE)
Sent: Monday, December 8, 2025 6:22 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [R] Windows standard interface: change working dorectory

[External Email]

Hello,

I need to provide the simplest possible indication to R users with either 
windows or macos machines on how to change working directory. Using setwd() 
will not work because I cannot trust them to even understand the concept of 
working directory.

On macos it is possible to have a GUI menu (the standard R GUI) that would 
allow the users to "click their way to where their data files are", is there 
such facility for the windows R GUI (the out-of-the-box one)? I have no access 
to windows machines, so I cannot check, but I am sure some people will use a 
windows laptop.

F


--

Federico Calboli

Erityisasiantuntija, tutkimusrahoitus

Palveluryhm�t

Luonnonvarakeskus

[[alternative HTML version deleted]]

__
[email protected] mailing list -- To UNSUBSCRIBE and more, see
https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
PLEASE do read the posting guide https://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.

Re: [R] Windows standard interface: change working dorectory

2025-12-08 Thread Calboli Federico (LUKE) 
Thanks! That sorts it! I’ll tell people to put files on their desktops, and 
that should suffice.

F


--

Federico Calboli

Erityisasiantuntija, tutkimusrahoitus

Palveluryhmät

Luonnonvarakeskus

Dear Federico

If they click on File in the top left hand corner and then Change dir in
the drop-down menu if opens a file explorer type window where they can
click on directories (folders in MS-speak) in the usual way. That does
not get round the problem that they need to know where they put the file
in the first place of course but it might help some of them.

Michael

On 08/12/2025 11:22, Calboli Federico (LUKE) wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I need to provide the simplest possible indication to R users with either 
> windows or macos machines on how to change working directory. Using setwd() 
> will not work because I cannot trust them to even understand the concept of 
> working directory.
>
> On macos it is possible to have a GUI menu (the standard R GUI) that would 
> allow the users to "click their way to where their data files are", is there 
> such facility for the windows R GUI (the out-of-the-box one)? I have no 
> access to windows machines, so I cannot check, but I am sure some people will 
> use a windows laptop.
>
> F
>
>
> --
>
> Federico Calboli
>
> Erityisasiantuntija, tutkimusrahoitus
>
> Palveluryhm�t
>
> Luonnonvarakeskus
>
>[[alternative HTML version deleted]]
>
>
> __
> [email protected] mailing list -- To UNSUBSCRIBE and more, see
> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
> PLEASE do read the posting guide 
> https://www.r-project.org/posting-guide.html
> and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.

--
Michael Dewey


[[alternative HTML version deleted]]

__
[email protected] mailing list -- To UNSUBSCRIBE and more, see
https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
PLEASE do read the posting guide https://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.

Re: [R] Windows standard interface: change working dorectory

2025-12-08 Thread Michael Dewey 

Dear Federico

If they click on File in the top left hand corner and then Change dir in 
the drop-down menu if opens a file explorer type window where they can 
click on directories (folders in MS-speak) in the usual way. That does 
not get round the problem that they need to know where they put the file 
in the first place of course but it might help some of them.


Michael

On 08/12/2025 11:22, Calboli Federico (LUKE) wrote:

Hello,

I need to provide the simplest possible indication to R users with either 
windows or macos machines on how to change working directory. Using setwd() 
will not work because I cannot trust them to even understand the concept of 
working directory.

On macos it is possible to have a GUI menu (the standard R GUI) that would allow the 
users to "click their way to where their data files are", is there such 
facility for the windows R GUI (the out-of-the-box one)? I have no access to windows 
machines, so I cannot check, but I am sure some people will use a windows laptop.

F


--

Federico Calboli

Erityisasiantuntija, tutkimusrahoitus

Palveluryhm�t

Luonnonvarakeskus

[[alternative HTML version deleted]]


__
[email protected] mailing list -- To UNSUBSCRIBE and more, see
https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
PLEASE do read the posting guide https://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.


--
Michael Dewey

__
[email protected] mailing list -- To UNSUBSCRIBE and more, see
https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
PLEASE do read the posting guide https://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.