Re: [R-sig-eco] Log transforming zero value data

2009-06-24 Thread Philippe Grosjean
See ?log1p Best, Philippe Grosjean ..°})) ) ) ) ) ) ( ( ( ( (Prof. Philippe Grosjean ) ) ) ) ) ( ( ( ( (Numerical Ecology of Aquatic Systems ) ) ) ) ) Mons-Hainaut University, Belgium ( ( ( ( (

Re: [R-sig-eco] Log transforming zero value data

2009-06-24 Thread ONKELINX, Thierry
Dear Nate, Much depend on the nature of your data. If they are counts, then I would recommend to use glm(count ~x + y + z, family = poisson) instead of lm(log(count) ~ x + y + z). Otherwise people tend to use a log(x+1) transformation. HTH, Thierry

Re: [R-sig-eco] Log transforming zero value data

2009-06-24 Thread Carsten Dormann
Dear Philippe, while I don't like to quibble about rules-of-thumb (since they are, as you rightly point out, without foundation in statistical theory), I would like to correct the impression that you gave in your email. Let's take an hypothetical example along the lines you proposed (or at

[R-sig-eco] CCA with ade4 and vegan

2009-06-24 Thread katalin varga
I am a new user to R and I would like to ask for your help. I calculated CCA with vegan and ade4 too. I imported my datas in the same form to packages but the graphics show others. The arrows are in different direction with different angel in the both diagrams. Why is it like that? Where can I

Re: [R-sig-eco] Log transforming zero value data

2009-06-24 Thread Matthew Landis
Many thanks to Carsten, Philippe, and Nate for a very informative and entertaining discussion of something I have always wondered about, having heard suggestions for both approaches. At least now I have a better understanding of the rationale for each! Matt

Re: [R-sig-eco] Log transforming zero value data

2009-06-24 Thread Nate Upham
Thanks very much indeed Carsten and Philippe! Lots to consider. I should have specified this before, but the variable with zero values that I would like to log (ln) transform does consist of many small values. The range is between 0.00 and 0.35, since this variable is the percentage

Re: [R-sig-eco] Log transforming zero value data

2009-06-24 Thread Scott
Hi Nate, Here is my 2 cents worth after coming in late to this discussion. The fact that your data are proportions is important as it suggests how the data may vary. Do you have the numerator and denominator used to calculate the proportions? If so then I would suggest that you should be

Re: [R-sig-eco] Log transforming zero value data

2009-06-24 Thread Nate Upham
Hey there Ben, I was just checking out your book actually. When you say that I should do this as a binomial analysis, is that because this variable is distributed similarly to a zero-inflated binomial distribution? Since all my data are non-normal, and my comparisons have heterogeneous