Re: [R-SIG-Mac] Wiki or Development for Mac-R.app-graphics-insert-to-Word?

2007-01-30 Thread Simon Urbanek
Thanks for all those contributions. What I can see as an action point  
is that quartz.save(..) should be extended to allow a DPI  
specification when used with type='png', such that you will get hi- 
res WYSIWYG. The later is crucial to me to be honest, that's why I  
was discouraging the use of png(..), bitmap(..) and friends. Although  
essentially the same can be achieved by using quartz.save(..,  
type='pdf')+Preview, but reducing the Preview step may be worthwhile.

Cheers,
Simon


On Jan 30, 2007, at 5:22 PM, Martin Henry H. Stevens wrote:

> Nice writing -- to the point. I have read the advice about png, and
> when I use bitmap with res=400, it is great. However, lower
> resolution (with drag and drop) is jaggy enough to be, IMHO, less-
> than publication quality and less than good enough for my
> presentations. This seems like a problem on my computer, or a simple
> difference of opinion that would be great to be shared (option 1,
> option 2). Disagreements are healthy, yes?
> Hank
> On Jan 30, 2007, at 11:43 AM, Thomas Lumley wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 29 Jan 2007, stefano iacus wrote:
>>
>>> Please stop this dogmatic war against/in_favor_of Word & Co. or I'm
>>> forced to close this thread.
>>
>> A dogma-free summary:
>>
>> 1. Word (and the rest of office)  doesn't display PDFs, but can
>> display
>> PNG or JPEG
>>
>> 2. PNG is better for statistical graphics
>>
>> 3. PNG can be produced by drag-and-drop, with Preview from a PDF, or
>> directly from the png() driver. Simon (who should know) recommends
>> drag
>> and drop.  I have tended to use the png() driver at higher-than- 
>> screen
>> resolution.
>>
>> 4. Under Windows, PNG may require Quicktime in order to be displayed.
>>
>> 5. R does not know how to produce .wmf -- under Windows, R does
>> device-independent graphics calls that are translated to .wmf, .png,
>> .jpeg, or screen images by the operating system as required. This
>> means it
>> would not be easy to make .wmf on Mac.
>>
>> 6. Implementing .wmf output off Windows does not appear to be a high
>> priority for any of the active (core or non-core) developers. If it
>> happens, someone else will have to do it.
>>
>> 7. Many people have strong views on Word that go beyond questions
>> of the
>> use of R on Mac OS X platforms.
>>
>>
>>  -thomas
>>
>> ___
>> R-SIG-Mac mailing list
>> [email protected]
>> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-sig-mac
>
>
>
> Dr. Hank Stevens, Assistant Professor
> 338 Pearson Hall
> Botany Department
> Miami University
> Oxford, OH 45056
>
> Office: (513) 529-4206
> Lab: (513) 529-4262
> FAX: (513) 529-4243
> http://www.cas.muohio.edu/~stevenmh/
> http://www.muohio.edu/ecology/
> http://www.muohio.edu/botany/
>
> "E Pluribus Unum"
>
> ___
> R-SIG-Mac mailing list
> [email protected]
> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-sig-mac
>
>

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Re: [R-SIG-Mac] Wiki or Development for Mac-R.app-graphics-insert-to-Word?

2007-01-30 Thread Martin Henry H. Stevens
Nice writing -- to the point. I have read the advice about png, and  
when I use bitmap with res=400, it is great. However, lower  
resolution (with drag and drop) is jaggy enough to be, IMHO, less- 
than publication quality and less than good enough for my  
presentations. This seems like a problem on my computer, or a simple  
difference of opinion that would be great to be shared (option 1,  
option 2). Disagreements are healthy, yes?
Hank
On Jan 30, 2007, at 11:43 AM, Thomas Lumley wrote:

> On Mon, 29 Jan 2007, stefano iacus wrote:
>
>> Please stop this dogmatic war against/in_favor_of Word & Co. or I'm
>> forced to close this thread.
>
> A dogma-free summary:
>
> 1. Word (and the rest of office)  doesn't display PDFs, but can  
> display
> PNG or JPEG
>
> 2. PNG is better for statistical graphics
>
> 3. PNG can be produced by drag-and-drop, with Preview from a PDF, or
> directly from the png() driver. Simon (who should know) recommends  
> drag
> and drop.  I have tended to use the png() driver at higher-than-screen
> resolution.
>
> 4. Under Windows, PNG may require Quicktime in order to be displayed.
>
> 5. R does not know how to produce .wmf -- under Windows, R does
> device-independent graphics calls that are translated to .wmf, .png,
> .jpeg, or screen images by the operating system as required. This  
> means it
> would not be easy to make .wmf on Mac.
>
> 6. Implementing .wmf output off Windows does not appear to be a high
> priority for any of the active (core or non-core) developers. If it
> happens, someone else will have to do it.
>
> 7. Many people have strong views on Word that go beyond questions  
> of the
> use of R on Mac OS X platforms.
>
>
>   -thomas
>
> ___
> R-SIG-Mac mailing list
> [email protected]
> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-sig-mac



Dr. Hank Stevens, Assistant Professor
338 Pearson Hall
Botany Department
Miami University
Oxford, OH 45056

Office: (513) 529-4206
Lab: (513) 529-4262
FAX: (513) 529-4243
http://www.cas.muohio.edu/~stevenmh/
http://www.muohio.edu/ecology/
http://www.muohio.edu/botany/

"E Pluribus Unum"

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Re: [R-SIG-Mac] Wiki or Development for Mac-R.app-graphics-insert-to-Word?

2007-01-30 Thread Byron Ellis
On 1/30/07, Duncan Murdoch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > 5. R does not know how to produce .wmf -- under Windows, R does
> > device-independent graphics calls that are translated to .wmf, .png,
> > .jpeg, or screen images by the operating system as required.
>
> That's true for wmf and on-screen displays, but R on Windows uses open
> source code (in the src/gnuwin32/bitmap directory) for png and jpeg.
> I've sometimes wondered why other platforms don't use that code too, to
> avoid the need for X11 to generate those formats.

More curiously, why doesn't R look into, say, Cairo for its bitmap
drawing needs? I'm pretty sure there are even already a couple
implementations of cairo-based devices around.

-- 
Byron Ellis ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
"Oook" -- The Librarian

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Re: [R-SIG-Mac] Wiki or Development for Mac-R.app-graphics-insert-to-Word?

2007-01-30 Thread Duncan Murdoch
On 1/30/2007 11:43 AM, Thomas Lumley wrote:
> On Mon, 29 Jan 2007, stefano iacus wrote:
> 
>> Please stop this dogmatic war against/in_favor_of Word & Co. or I'm
>> forced to close this thread.
> 
> A dogma-free summary:

Not only dogma-free, but quite accurate.  Not 100%

> 1. Word (and the rest of office)  doesn't display PDFs, but can display 
> PNG or JPEG
> 
> 2. PNG is better for statistical graphics
> 
> 3. PNG can be produced by drag-and-drop, with Preview from a PDF, or 
> directly from the png() driver. Simon (who should know) recommends drag 
> and drop.  I have tended to use the png() driver at higher-than-screen 
> resolution.
> 
> 4. Under Windows, PNG may require Quicktime in order to be displayed.
> 
> 5. R does not know how to produce .wmf -- under Windows, R does 
> device-independent graphics calls that are translated to .wmf, .png, 
> .jpeg, or screen images by the operating system as required. 

That's true for wmf and on-screen displays, but R on Windows uses open 
source code (in the src/gnuwin32/bitmap directory) for png and jpeg. 
I've sometimes wondered why other platforms don't use that code too, to 
avoid the need for X11 to generate those formats.

Duncan Murdoch

> This means it 
> would not be easy to make .wmf on Mac.
> 
> 6. Implementing .wmf output off Windows does not appear to be a high 
> priority for any of the active (core or non-core) developers. If it 
> happens, someone else will have to do it.
> 
> 7. Many people have strong views on Word that go beyond questions of the 
> use of R on Mac OS X platforms.
> 
> 
>   -thomas
> 
> ___
> R-SIG-Mac mailing list
> [email protected]
> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-sig-mac

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Re: [R-SIG-Mac] Wiki or Development for Mac-R.app-graphics-insert-to-Word?

2007-01-30 Thread Chabot Denis
Hi again,
Le 07-01-29 à 16:28, [EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit :

>
> Message: 5
> Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 15:47:09 -0500
> From: Simon Urbanek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: [R-SIG-Mac] Wiki or Development for
>   Mac-R.app-graphics-insert-to-Word?
> To: Don MacQueen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Cc: R 
> Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
>
> On Jan 29, 2007, at 2:50 PM, Don MacQueen wrote:
>
>> I'd suggest you try using R's png() driver.
>
> I'd discourage that one a Mac as there is not really a need for that
> - Quartz produces PNG directly and it's WYSIWYG unlike the png()
> driver and Quartz has much better rendering.

Now this is very interesting (see my problems with png() in previous  
post), how do you do this? I saw nothing on the quartz help, and the  
save as menu command does not give me the option to choose file format.

>
>
> To get back on the topic: To be honest I don't really see a problem
> here - Word can handle PDF very easily, just drop a PDF file in a
> Word document - it works just fine (to make sure I'm talking about
> Office 2004 here).
>
> The fact that it does so in Microsoft-ish way, that is by converting
> it to a bitmap, is a technicality and given the overall quality of
> Word output it is neither surprising nor will a regular Word user
> notice this at all.

I have not tried with Word, but PowerPoint produces a low res png  
that really looks bad on a large screen. Hence my use of other  
software (Preview or Acrobat) to translate into png instead of  
letting PowerPoint do it poorly. In fact, putting pdf plots in  
Keynote and exporting to PowerPoint format does a nicer job than  
importing the pdf directly in PowerPoint.

>
> R is open source, so if someone implements a device that generates
> DOC or WMF files, uses some API to talk to Word or anything similar,
> they are free to contribute it to R or the R.app GUI.
>
> Cheers,
> Simon
Denis

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Re: [R-SIG-Mac] Wiki or Development for Mac-R.app-graphics-insert-to-Word?

2007-01-30 Thread Thomas Lumley
On Mon, 29 Jan 2007, stefano iacus wrote:

> Please stop this dogmatic war against/in_favor_of Word & Co. or I'm
> forced to close this thread.

A dogma-free summary:

1. Word (and the rest of office)  doesn't display PDFs, but can display 
PNG or JPEG

2. PNG is better for statistical graphics

3. PNG can be produced by drag-and-drop, with Preview from a PDF, or 
directly from the png() driver. Simon (who should know) recommends drag 
and drop.  I have tended to use the png() driver at higher-than-screen 
resolution.

4. Under Windows, PNG may require Quicktime in order to be displayed.

5. R does not know how to produce .wmf -- under Windows, R does 
device-independent graphics calls that are translated to .wmf, .png, 
.jpeg, or screen images by the operating system as required. This means it 
would not be easy to make .wmf on Mac.

6. Implementing .wmf output off Windows does not appear to be a high 
priority for any of the active (core or non-core) developers. If it 
happens, someone else will have to do it.

7. Many people have strong views on Word that go beyond questions of the 
use of R on Mac OS X platforms.


-thomas

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Re: [R-SIG-Mac] Wiki or Development for Mac-R.app-graphics-insert-to-Word?

2007-01-29 Thread Martin Henry H. Stevens
Thank you everyone for your input. It is precisely all of this  
confusion/disagreement/incompatibilities that led me to post my query.

I have just tried everything that has been suggested, and will try to  
summarize it a little. One issue is relative quality of images. How  
good is good enough? Maybe a 5-R rating will be assigned to the  
perfect solution ;-).

Cheers,
Hank

On Jan 29, 2007, at 5:04 PM, Phillip Price wrote:

>
> On Jan 29, 2007, at 11:50 AM, Don MacQueen wrote:
>
>> I'd suggest you try using R's png() driver.
>> I am satisfied with how graphics imported into Word or PowerPoint
>> look if save using png().
>>
>> Note that Adobe Illustrator for Mac has a "Save for Microsoft Office"
>> option, and it saves in png format.
>
> I agree with Don: png() and bitmap() work well for me.
>
> I usually use bitmap() to create .png file; I highly recommend  
> setting res[olution] = 300 or so, to avoid jaggies.
>
> --Phil Price



Dr. Hank Stevens, Assistant Professor
338 Pearson Hall
Botany Department
Miami University
Oxford, OH 45056

Office: (513) 529-4206
Lab: (513) 529-4262
FAX: (513) 529-4243
http://www.cas.muohio.edu/~stevenmh/
http://www.muohio.edu/ecology/
http://www.muohio.edu/botany/

"E Pluribus Unum"

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Re: [R-SIG-Mac] Wiki or Development for Mac-R.app-graphics-insert-to-Word?

2007-01-29 Thread Phillip Price

On Jan 29, 2007, at 11:50 AM, Don MacQueen wrote:

> I'd suggest you try using R's png() driver.
> I am satisfied with how graphics imported into Word or PowerPoint
> look if save using png().
>
> Note that Adobe Illustrator for Mac has a "Save for Microsoft Office"
> option, and it saves in png format.

I agree with Don: png() and bitmap() work well for me.

I usually use bitmap() to create .png file; I highly recommend  
setting res[olution] = 300 or so, to avoid jaggies.

--Phil Price

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Re: [R-SIG-Mac] Wiki or Development for Mac-R.app-graphics-insert-to-Word?

2007-01-29 Thread stefano iacus
Please stop this dogmatic war against/in_favor_of Word & Co. or I'm  
forced to close this thread.

No-one obliges anyone to use Word and no product can be dangerous to  
R (by any meaning of the word "dangerous").

If someone wants to write code for some I/O API to allow  
interoperability between R and other products, he/she is welcome.

That being said, I'm not the one.

stefano


On 29/gen/07, at 22:08, Mick McQuaid wrote:

> I'm disappointed by the short-sightedness of this message.
>
> ... regarding a message from Richard De Veaux on Jan 29:
>> I don't think this forum is the appropriate place for personal  
>> harangues
>> against Word. There are enough other R issues to keep us busy.
>
> Word is the software equivalent of Caulerpa taxifolia, the
> green alga that tries to make its environment as
> inhospitable to other living organisms as it can.
>
> If you just sit there and do nothing, it will eventually
> stifle anything that threatens it, and this includes
> any software of any type that is platform-neutral.
> Platform neutrality threatens the monopoly.
>
> In other words, I am saying that Word is dangerous to R.
>
> I don't expect casual MS Office users in general to
> understand this, but it really surprises me to see a lack of
> resistance to MS Office in a group like this.
>
> ... regarding a message from Richard De Veaux on Jan 29:
>> I don't think this forum is the appropriate place for personal  
>> harangues
>> against Word. There are enough other R issues to keep us busy.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Dick De Veaux
>>
>>
>>
>> On 1/29/07 2:25 PM, "Federico Calboli" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 29 Jan 2007, at 19:07, Ben Bolker wrote:
>>>
   Have you ever tried to submit a LaTeX document (or any non-Word
 format: PDF, DVI, RTF, ...) to a biological
 journal?
>>>
>>> Just refuse to referee anything sent to you, and to fill in any form
>>> as a referee, if they are in .doc. Point out they are *not* a
>>> standard. Ask colleagues to do the same.
>>>
>>> People do respond to incentives.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Federico
>>>
>>> --
>>> Federico C. F. Calboli
>>> Department of Epidemiology and Public Health
>>> Imperial College, St. Mary's Campus
>>> Norfolk Place, London W2 1PG
>>>
>>> Tel +44 (0)20 75941602   Fax +44 (0)20 75943193
>>>
>>> f.calboli [.a.t] imperial.ac.uk
>>> f.calboli [.a.t] gmail.com
>>>
>>> ___
>>> R-SIG-Mac mailing list
>>> [email protected]
>>> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-sig-mac
>>
>> ___
>> R-SIG-Mac mailing list
>> [email protected]
>> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-sig-mac
>>
>>
>
> -- 
> Michael McQuaid, Assistant Professor
> School of Information, School of Art & Design
> University of Michigan
> 305B West Hall, 1085 South University Ave.
> Ann Arbor, MI 48109-1107
> 734-647-9550 voice  734-764-2475 fax
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]   http://mickmcquaid.com
>
> ___
> R-SIG-Mac mailing list
> [email protected]
> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-sig-mac

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Re: [R-SIG-Mac] Wiki or Development for Mac-R.app-graphics-insert-to-Word?

2007-01-29 Thread Eric
Use Preview?

I just saved a PDF created in R on linux into a PNG using Preview's 
conversion on Mac, then dragged the file off my desktop into a Word 2004 
document on Mac. I opened the file using Word for Windows running under 
Parallels and it looked just fine. E.g. I could see and re-size the PNG 
in Word.

Preview can be programmed with automator if that is more efficient.

--Eric

P.S. However, for maximum efficiency, it may be necessary to create an 
Automator script to delete all copies of Word that infest your computer. ;-)


Byron Ellis wrote:
> On 1/29/07, Simon Urbanek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>   
>> To get back on the topic: To be honest I don't really see a problem
>> here - Word can handle PDF very easily, just drop a PDF file in a
>> Word document - it works just fine (to make sure I'm talking about
>> Office 2004 here).
>>
>> The fact that it does so in Microsoft-ish way, that is by converting
>> it to a bitmap, is a technicality and given the overall quality of
>> Word output it is neither surprising nor will a regular Word user
>> notice this at all.
>> 
>
> Unfortunately, it happens to convert it to a form of bitmap that is
> not visible on PC platforms unless they have Quicktime installed (as I
> rediscover every time I need to make a Word document... :-) )
>
>
>

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Re: [R-SIG-Mac] Wiki or Development for Mac-R.app-graphics-insert-to-Word?

2007-01-29 Thread stefano iacus
Another trick is to open your save quartz graphics with Preview.app  
and then Save As... some other graphic format, including png.

Also, copying to the clipboard from the quartz device should copy  
both in PICT format and PDF format. Copy and paste from the clipboard  
into Word works, but I'm not able to test if word under windows  
accepts such embedded PICT files even if Word compatibility report  
says it is ok.


BTW, I think it would be nice if we can produce some WMF format  
grabbing some code from the copy.to.clipboard funtionality of R for   
WinDog (unless the code uses some .DLL)

I also agree that copy from Excel into R is a nice thing to do, but I  
don't see too much people willing to implement this.

stefano

On 29/gen/07, at 21:53, Byron Ellis wrote:

> On 1/29/07, Simon Urbanek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> To get back on the topic: To be honest I don't really see a problem
>> here - Word can handle PDF very easily, just drop a PDF file in a
>> Word document - it works just fine (to make sure I'm talking about
>> Office 2004 here).
>>
>> The fact that it does so in Microsoft-ish way, that is by converting
>> it to a bitmap, is a technicality and given the overall quality of
>> Word output it is neither surprising nor will a regular Word user
>> notice this at all.
>
> Unfortunately, it happens to convert it to a form of bitmap that is
> not visible on PC platforms unless they have Quicktime installed (as I
> rediscover every time I need to make a Word document... :-) )
>
>
> -- 
> Byron Ellis ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
> "Oook" -- The Librarian
>
> ___
> R-SIG-Mac mailing list
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> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-sig-mac
>

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Re: [R-SIG-Mac] Wiki or Development for Mac-R.app-graphics-insert-to-Word?

2007-01-29 Thread Mick McQuaid
I'm disappointed by the short-sightedness of this message.

... regarding a message from Richard De Veaux on Jan 29:
> I don't think this forum is the appropriate place for personal harangues
> against Word. There are enough other R issues to keep us busy.

Word is the software equivalent of Caulerpa taxifolia, the
green alga that tries to make its environment as
inhospitable to other living organisms as it can.

If you just sit there and do nothing, it will eventually
stifle anything that threatens it, and this includes
any software of any type that is platform-neutral.
Platform neutrality threatens the monopoly.

In other words, I am saying that Word is dangerous to R.

I don't expect casual MS Office users in general to
understand this, but it really surprises me to see a lack of
resistance to MS Office in a group like this.

... regarding a message from Richard De Veaux on Jan 29:
> I don't think this forum is the appropriate place for personal harangues
> against Word. There are enough other R issues to keep us busy.
> 
> Cheers,
> Dick De Veaux
> 
> 
> 
> On 1/29/07 2:25 PM, "Federico Calboli" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > On 29 Jan 2007, at 19:07, Ben Bolker wrote:
> > 
> >>   Have you ever tried to submit a LaTeX document (or any non-Word
> >> format: PDF, DVI, RTF, ...) to a biological
> >> journal?
> > 
> > Just refuse to referee anything sent to you, and to fill in any form
> > as a referee, if they are in .doc. Point out they are *not* a
> > standard. Ask colleagues to do the same.
> > 
> > People do respond to incentives.
> > 
> > Best,
> > 
> > Federico
> > 
> > --
> > Federico C. F. Calboli
> > Department of Epidemiology and Public Health
> > Imperial College, St. Mary's Campus
> > Norfolk Place, London W2 1PG
> > 
> > Tel +44 (0)20 75941602   Fax +44 (0)20 75943193
> > 
> > f.calboli [.a.t] imperial.ac.uk
> > f.calboli [.a.t] gmail.com
> > 
> > ___
> > R-SIG-Mac mailing list
> > [email protected]
> > https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-sig-mac
> 
> ___
> R-SIG-Mac mailing list
> [email protected]
> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-sig-mac
> 
> 

-- 
Michael McQuaid, Assistant Professor
School of Information, School of Art & Design
University of Michigan
305B West Hall, 1085 South University Ave.
Ann Arbor, MI 48109-1107
734-647-9550 voice  734-764-2475 fax
[EMAIL PROTECTED]   http://mickmcquaid.com

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Re: [R-SIG-Mac] Wiki or Development for Mac-R.app-graphics-insert-to-Word?

2007-01-29 Thread Byron Ellis
On 1/29/07, Simon Urbanek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> To get back on the topic: To be honest I don't really see a problem
> here - Word can handle PDF very easily, just drop a PDF file in a
> Word document - it works just fine (to make sure I'm talking about
> Office 2004 here).
>
> The fact that it does so in Microsoft-ish way, that is by converting
> it to a bitmap, is a technicality and given the overall quality of
> Word output it is neither surprising nor will a regular Word user
> notice this at all.

Unfortunately, it happens to convert it to a form of bitmap that is
not visible on PC platforms unless they have Quicktime installed (as I
rediscover every time I need to make a Word document... :-) )


-- 
Byron Ellis ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
"Oook" -- The Librarian

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Re: [R-SIG-Mac] Wiki or Development for Mac-R.app-graphics-insert-to-Word?

2007-01-29 Thread Simon Urbanek
On Jan 29, 2007, at 2:50 PM, Don MacQueen wrote:

> I'd suggest you try using R's png() driver.

I'd discourage that one a Mac as there is not really a need for that  
- Quartz produces PNG directly and it's WYSIWYG unlike the png()  
driver and Quartz has much better rendering.


To get back on the topic: To be honest I don't really see a problem  
here - Word can handle PDF very easily, just drop a PDF file in a  
Word document - it works just fine (to make sure I'm talking about  
Office 2004 here).

The fact that it does so in Microsoft-ish way, that is by converting  
it to a bitmap, is a technicality and given the overall quality of  
Word output it is neither surprising nor will a regular Word user  
notice this at all.

R is open source, so if someone implements a device that generates  
DOC or WMF files, uses some API to talk to Word or anything similar,  
they are free to contribute it to R or the R.app GUI.

Cheers,
Simon



> I am satisfied with how graphics imported into Word or PowerPoint
> look if save using png().
>
> Note that Adobe Illustrator for Mac has a "Save for Microsoft Office"
> option, and it saves in png format.
>
> -Don
>
> At 1:42 PM -0500 1/29/07, Martin Henry H. Stevens wrote:
>> Hi Folks,
>>
>> While I do not use Microsoft Word for my own work, I
>> (i) I teach R to people who use Word and PowerPoint, and
>> (ii) many people use Word around here would like to use R, but are
>> frustrated about getting graphics into Word.
>>
>> My most recent response to a colleague, and my preferred solution for
>> others on a Mac was:
>> ###
>> 1. Mac OSX uses PDF format for vector-graphics format, and R can make
>> PDFs beautifully -- try opening them in Preview or Acrobat Reader.
>> Microsoft Word, however, cannot handle PDF graphics, uses EMF/WMF
>> format for vector graphics. On PC's, R can create EMF/WMF format, but
>> it does not do so on Macs.
>>
>> 2. On Macs, the best solution I have found for putting images into
>> PowerPoint and Word is to save R images as PDFs, open them in
>> GraphicConverter (a utility that comes with a Mac), then save as JPEG
>> format (with 100% resolution) and insert that into a Word document.
>> That will look very good. I seem to remember that Powerpoint is not
>> as limited.
>>
>> 3. Note that if you make a Word document (like a manuscript) that
>> contains EMF/WMF graphics, Word on the Mac cannot read images in the
>> Word file made on the PC.
>>
>> 4. The best success I had came when I stopped using Word, but I
>> realize that that is NOT for everyone.
>> ###
>>
>> I found a couple relevant threads (e.g. http://finzi.psych.upenn.edu/
>> R/Rhelp02a/archive/34950.html), but I was wondering what else might
>> be going on.
>>
>> Is a move being made to help folks who are wedded to Word? Such a
>> move would be useful, I think.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Hank
>>
>>
>> Dr. Hank Stevens, Assistant Professor
>> 338 Pearson Hall
>> Botany Department
>> Miami University
>> Oxford, OH 45056
>>
>> Office: (513) 529-4206
>> Lab: (513) 529-4262
>> FAX: (513) 529-4243
>> http://www.cas.muohio.edu/~stevenmh/
>> http://www.muohio.edu/ecology/
>> http://www.muohio.edu/botany/
>>
>> "E Pluribus Unum"
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  [[alternative HTML version deleted]]
>>
>> ___
>> R-SIG-Mac mailing list
>> [email protected]
>> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-sig-mac
>
>
> -- 
> --
> Don MacQueen
> Environmental Protection Department
> Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory
> Livermore, CA, USA
>
> ___
> R-SIG-Mac mailing list
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>
>

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Re: [R-SIG-Mac] Wiki or Development for Mac-R.app-graphics-insert-to-Word?

2007-01-29 Thread Byron Ellis
*ahem* I think the developers for the Mac version of R will do
whatever they please. This may in fact include better compatibility
with a certain office suite. It may not.

Personally, I would like the ability to drag and drop (or cut and
paste) from Excel to R's GUI directly into a data frame. I think it
would be nice and it would make life much easier for my collaborators
when the discover the limits of Excel. Tears of joy! It would also be
nice to drag and drop to Word and have those same collaborators able
to read the file on the PC side on the first try (this, IMO, is
actually a bug in Word's pasting code---it transfers everything to
PICT despite the fact that a) PICT is dead and b) other formats are
available. It *should* select the most compatible format, either JPEG
or PNG).

It's not like LaTeX isn't without its own problems, but I use it for
its strengths (macros) not its open source nature.

On 1/29/07, Federico Calboli <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 29 Jan 2007, at 19:35, Richard De Veaux wrote:
>
> > I don't think this forum is the appropriate place for personal
> > harangues
> > against Word. There are enough other R issues to keep us busy.
>
> I disagree. I don't thing the developers of R for Mac shoud spend
> their time (which, I dare presume, ain't infinite) to make stuff
> easier for "Word" users.
>
> Other members of the community have the full right to disagree, but,
> as a member of the community, I have the right to say I don't think
> time spend on making R graphics more "Word" friendly is time well spent.
>
> Best,
>
> Fede
>
> --
> Federico C. F. Calboli
> Department of Epidemiology and Public Health
> Imperial College, St. Mary's Campus
> Norfolk Place, London W2 1PG
>
> Tel +44 (0)20 75941602   Fax +44 (0)20 75943193
>
> f.calboli [.a.t] imperial.ac.uk
> f.calboli [.a.t] gmail.com
>
> ___
> R-SIG-Mac mailing list
> [email protected]
> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-sig-mac
>


-- 
Byron Ellis ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
"Oook" -- The Librarian

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Re: [R-SIG-Mac] Wiki or Development for Mac-R.app-graphics-insert-to-Word?

2007-01-29 Thread Don MacQueen
I'd suggest you try using R's png() driver.
I am satisfied with how graphics imported into Word or PowerPoint 
look if save using png().

Note that Adobe Illustrator for Mac has a "Save for Microsoft Office" 
option, and it saves in png format.

-Don

At 1:42 PM -0500 1/29/07, Martin Henry H. Stevens wrote:
>Hi Folks,
>
>While I do not use Microsoft Word for my own work, I
>(i) I teach R to people who use Word and PowerPoint, and
>(ii) many people use Word around here would like to use R, but are 
>frustrated about getting graphics into Word.
>
>My most recent response to a colleague, and my preferred solution for 
>others on a Mac was:
>###
>1. Mac OSX uses PDF format for vector-graphics format, and R can make 
>PDFs beautifully -- try opening them in Preview or Acrobat Reader. 
>Microsoft Word, however, cannot handle PDF graphics, uses EMF/WMF 
>format for vector graphics. On PC's, R can create EMF/WMF format, but 
>it does not do so on Macs.
>
>2. On Macs, the best solution I have found for putting images into 
>PowerPoint and Word is to save R images as PDFs, open them in 
>GraphicConverter (a utility that comes with a Mac), then save as JPEG 
>format (with 100% resolution) and insert that into a Word document. 
>That will look very good. I seem to remember that Powerpoint is not 
>as limited.
>
>3. Note that if you make a Word document (like a manuscript) that 
>contains EMF/WMF graphics, Word on the Mac cannot read images in the 
>Word file made on the PC.
>
>4. The best success I had came when I stopped using Word, but I 
>realize that that is NOT for everyone.
>###
>
>I found a couple relevant threads (e.g. http://finzi.psych.upenn.edu/
>R/Rhelp02a/archive/34950.html), but I was wondering what else might 
>be going on.
>
>Is a move being made to help folks who are wedded to Word? Such a
>move would be useful, I think.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Hank
>
>
>Dr. Hank Stevens, Assistant Professor
>338 Pearson Hall
>Botany Department
>Miami University
>Oxford, OH 45056
>
>Office: (513) 529-4206
>Lab: (513) 529-4262
>FAX: (513) 529-4243
>http://www.cas.muohio.edu/~stevenmh/
>http://www.muohio.edu/ecology/
>http://www.muohio.edu/botany/
>
>"E Pluribus Unum"
>
>
>
>
>
>
>   [[alternative HTML version deleted]]
>
>___
>R-SIG-Mac mailing list
>[email protected]
>https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-sig-mac


-- 
--
Don MacQueen
Environmental Protection Department
Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory
Livermore, CA, USA

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Re: [R-SIG-Mac] Wiki or Development for Mac-R.app-graphics-insert-to-Word?

2007-01-29 Thread Federico Calboli
On 29 Jan 2007, at 19:35, Richard De Veaux wrote:

> I don't think this forum is the appropriate place for personal  
> harangues
> against Word. There are enough other R issues to keep us busy.

I disagree. I don't thing the developers of R for Mac shoud spend  
their time (which, I dare presume, ain't infinite) to make stuff  
easier for "Word" users.

Other members of the community have the full right to disagree, but,  
as a member of the community, I have the right to say I don't think  
time spend on making R graphics more "Word" friendly is time well spent.

Best,

Fede

--
Federico C. F. Calboli
Department of Epidemiology and Public Health
Imperial College, St. Mary's Campus
Norfolk Place, London W2 1PG

Tel +44 (0)20 75941602   Fax +44 (0)20 75943193

f.calboli [.a.t] imperial.ac.uk
f.calboli [.a.t] gmail.com

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Re: [R-SIG-Mac] Wiki or Development for Mac-R.app-graphics-insert-to-Word?

2007-01-29 Thread Richard De Veaux
I don't think this forum is the appropriate place for personal harangues
against Word. There are enough other R issues to keep us busy.

Cheers,
Dick De Veaux



On 1/29/07 2:25 PM, "Federico Calboli" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On 29 Jan 2007, at 19:07, Ben Bolker wrote:
> 
>>   Have you ever tried to submit a LaTeX document (or any non-Word
>> format: PDF, DVI, RTF, ...) to a biological
>> journal?
> 
> Just refuse to referee anything sent to you, and to fill in any form
> as a referee, if they are in .doc. Point out they are *not* a
> standard. Ask colleagues to do the same.
> 
> People do respond to incentives.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Federico
> 
> --
> Federico C. F. Calboli
> Department of Epidemiology and Public Health
> Imperial College, St. Mary's Campus
> Norfolk Place, London W2 1PG
> 
> Tel +44 (0)20 75941602   Fax +44 (0)20 75943193
> 
> f.calboli [.a.t] imperial.ac.uk
> f.calboli [.a.t] gmail.com
> 
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Re: [R-SIG-Mac] Wiki or Development for Mac-R.app-graphics-insert-to-Word?

2007-01-29 Thread Federico Calboli
On 29 Jan 2007, at 19:07, Ben Bolker wrote:

>   Have you ever tried to submit a LaTeX document (or any non-Word
> format: PDF, DVI, RTF, ...) to a biological
> journal?

Just refuse to referee anything sent to you, and to fill in any form  
as a referee, if they are in .doc. Point out they are *not* a  
standard. Ask colleagues to do the same.

People do respond to incentives.

Best,

Federico

--
Federico C. F. Calboli
Department of Epidemiology and Public Health
Imperial College, St. Mary's Campus
Norfolk Place, London W2 1PG

Tel +44 (0)20 75941602   Fax +44 (0)20 75943193

f.calboli [.a.t] imperial.ac.uk
f.calboli [.a.t] gmail.com

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Re: [R-SIG-Mac] Wiki or Development for Mac-R.app-graphics-insert-to-Word?

2007-01-29 Thread Federico Calboli
On 29 Jan 2007, at 18:42, Martin Henry H. Stevens wrote:
> 4. The best success I had came when I stopped using Word, but I
> realize that that is NOT for everyone.

> Is a move being made to help folks who are wedded to Word? Such a
> move would be useful, I think.

Unhelpful as it might sound, people wedded to "Word" should divorce.  
Full stop.

The fourth point is moot... people used other stuff before "Word",  
and any person smart enough to use R could use something else  
(Latex?) --for no better reason that the .doc files produced by  
"Word" are not even a standard file format, just an inconvenience.

Best,

Federico

--
Federico C. F. Calboli
Department of Epidemiology and Public Health
Imperial College, St. Mary's Campus
Norfolk Place, London W2 1PG

Tel +44 (0)20 75941602   Fax +44 (0)20 75943193

f.calboli [.a.t] imperial.ac.uk
f.calboli [.a.t] gmail.com

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