Re: [R-SIG-Mac] iPad?

2010-01-30 Thread Byron Ellis
On Sat, Jan 30, 2010 at 8:55 AM, Simon Urbanek
 wrote:
> On Jan 30, 2010, at 2:00 AM, Byron Ellis wrote:
>
>> Erm... Not so difficult, the iPhone toolchain is using gcc and it wouldn't 
>> be hard to make an ARM gfortran... I think Simon did on a lark when the 
>> iPhone came out.
>>
>
> Indeed, R has no crucial issues on arm - the support is there from the times 
> of the iPhone and it works with the stock Apple SDK. The usability issue was 
> the main reason to not pursue this further. That is different for the iPad as 
> it has a multi-core CPU, better FPU and a decent screen with a keyboard so it 
> would make much more sense. Clearly, we'd have to add a UIKit  implementation 
> of Quartz and maybe an UIKit console, but it certainly more reasonable than 
> on the iPhone.
>

The graphics dev shouldn't be too bad, most everything we need is
there. Added bonus: a controlled font list so fewer issues there. :-)

A console would be more work than on OS X I think, but not too bad.

> That said, I still think the more sensible approach is the remote-GUI one 
> (Byron is the expert on this ;)).

I don't think the iPhone SDK implemented the NSDIstantObject classes
so it wouldn't be quite as easy as the desktop version. I've actually
been thinking about cloud-based analysis quite a bit for a variety of
reasons and I think I would do it like DabbleDb with some sort of
database (or data document) facility. You'd spin up a "virtual
machine" (which may or may not be an actual virtual machine) with a
true copy (or copies) of R with a remote connection REPL instead of
the normal one. You'd then use sticky sessions to bind your client to
that specific copy (or copies) of R so your client could interact with
the system in the normal fashion, shipping output from graphics back
and forth to different things.



>
>
>> The real problem is actually getting it onto the App Store since R is not 
>> allowed given current rules (no programming languages). Interestingly, if 
>> you were to use R to build an application that was NOT a programming 
>> language, that would be fine. (there are Smalltalk and Mono-based Apps in 
>> the store).
>>
>
> I don't think the programming language would be the main concern (that's 
> something we could talk to Apple about - they usually like scientific apps), 
> but I suspect they may have more objections to the dynamic linking that R 
> uses - I don't think they would let us download/use packages.

True, they do like education/science... Good point about the packages
though. Perhaps pure-R only packages would be OK? Really no different
than buying extra levels in a game or something Use the in-app
purchase capability?

>
> Cheers,
> Simon
>
>
>> On Fri, Jan 29, 2010 at 10:45 PM, David Winsemius
>>  wrote:
>>>
>>> On Jan 29, 2010, at 11:06 PM, Matthew Cohen wrote:
>>>
 I think it might be worthwhile to think about getting R to work on the
 iPad, especially if it can access iWork/Numbers spreadsheets...  I realize
 someone brought up trying this on the iPhone a couple of years back, and no
 one was able to figure out what the point would be.  But R on the iPad 
 seems
 like it would be genuinely useful...

 I'm not sure that I have much to contribute in terms of making this
 happen, but I'm wondering if anyone who is familiar with the iPhone SDK
 (especially anyone who has played around with 3.2) knows how feasible it
 would be...
>>>
>>> Show us an open-source C and Fortran compiler for the iPad.
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> David Winsemius, MD
>>> Heritage Laboratories
>>> West Hartford, CT
>>>
>>> ___
>>> R-SIG-Mac mailing list
>>> [email protected]
>>> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-sig-mac
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Byron Ellis ([email protected])
>> "Oook" -- The Librarian
>>
>> ___
>> R-SIG-Mac mailing list
>> [email protected]
>> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-sig-mac
>>
>>
>
>



-- 
Byron Ellis ([email protected])
"Oook" -- The Librarian

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Re: [R-SIG-Mac] iPad?

2010-01-30 Thread Matthew Cohen
Could you explain what remote-GUI would entail?  If I allow remote connections 
to my desktop at home, I can run R through one of the iPhone ssh apps.  But it 
obviously doesn't allow graphic outputs to display on the iPhone, or syntax 
highlighting.  Plus, switching back and forth between a script and the console 
was awkward, and editing data files more or less impossible.  Would remote-GUI 
be a similar solution, but one that addresses some or all of of those issues?  
Or am I mis-inferring?  This would definitely be better than nothing...  Do you 
think it would be possible to implement something like this but also have it be 
able to access csv files stored on the iPad (and thus editable by Numbers 
running on the iPad)?

I think I'd prefer some local R functionality on a hypothetical iPad app, even 
if it's just a vanilla installation without any packages.  One possible 
solution to the packages issue would be to create different flavors of R apps, 
each containing different combinations of packages...  Sort of like how for 
many of the navigation apps, you have to buy a new one for each city...?

Just thinking out loud.

  
On Jan 30, 2010, at 11:55 AM, Simon Urbanek wrote:

> On Jan 30, 2010, at 2:00 AM, Byron Ellis wrote:
> 
>> Erm... Not so difficult, the iPhone toolchain is using gcc and it wouldn't 
>> be hard to make an ARM gfortran... I think Simon did on a lark when the 
>> iPhone came out.
>> 
> 
> Indeed, R has no crucial issues on arm - the support is there from the times 
> of the iPhone and it works with the stock Apple SDK. The usability issue was 
> the main reason to not pursue this further. That is different for the iPad as 
> it has a multi-core CPU, better FPU and a decent screen with a keyboard so it 
> would make much more sense. Clearly, we'd have to add a UIKit  implementation 
> of Quartz and maybe an UIKit console, but it certainly more reasonable than 
> on the iPhone.
> 
> That said, I still think the more sensible approach is the remote-GUI one 
> (Byron is the expert on this ;)).
> 
> 
>> The real problem is actually getting it onto the App Store since R is not 
>> allowed given current rules (no programming languages). Interestingly, if 
>> you were to use R to build an application that was NOT a programming 
>> language, that would be fine. (there are Smalltalk and Mono-based Apps in 
>> the store).
>> 
> 
> I don't think the programming language would be the main concern (that's 
> something we could talk to Apple about - they usually like scientific apps), 
> but I suspect they may have more objections to the dynamic linking that R 
> uses - I don't think they would let us download/use packages.
> 
> Cheers,
> Simon
> 
> 
>> On Fri, Jan 29, 2010 at 10:45 PM, David Winsemius
>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> On Jan 29, 2010, at 11:06 PM, Matthew Cohen wrote:
>>> 
 I think it might be worthwhile to think about getting R to work on the
 iPad, especially if it can access iWork/Numbers spreadsheets...  I realize
 someone brought up trying this on the iPhone a couple of years back, and no
 one was able to figure out what the point would be.  But R on the iPad 
 seems
 like it would be genuinely useful...
 
 I'm not sure that I have much to contribute in terms of making this
 happen, but I'm wondering if anyone who is familiar with the iPhone SDK
 (especially anyone who has played around with 3.2) knows how feasible it
 would be...
>>> 
>>> Show us an open-source C and Fortran compiler for the iPad.
>>> 
>>> --
>>> 
>>> David Winsemius, MD
>>> Heritage Laboratories
>>> West Hartford, CT
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> R-SIG-Mac mailing list
>>> [email protected]
>>> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-sig-mac
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Byron Ellis ([email protected])
>> "Oook" -- The Librarian
>> 
>> ___
>> R-SIG-Mac mailing list
>> [email protected]
>> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-sig-mac
>> 
>> 
> 
> ___
> R-SIG-Mac mailing list
> [email protected]
> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-sig-mac

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Re: [R-SIG-Mac] iPad?

2010-01-30 Thread Simon Urbanek
On Jan 30, 2010, at 2:00 AM, Byron Ellis wrote:

> Erm... Not so difficult, the iPhone toolchain is using gcc and it wouldn't be 
> hard to make an ARM gfortran... I think Simon did on a lark when the iPhone 
> came out.
> 

Indeed, R has no crucial issues on arm - the support is there from the times of 
the iPhone and it works with the stock Apple SDK. The usability issue was the 
main reason to not pursue this further. That is different for the iPad as it 
has a multi-core CPU, better FPU and a decent screen with a keyboard so it 
would make much more sense. Clearly, we'd have to add a UIKit  implementation 
of Quartz and maybe an UIKit console, but it certainly more reasonable than on 
the iPhone.

That said, I still think the more sensible approach is the remote-GUI one 
(Byron is the expert on this ;)).


> The real problem is actually getting it onto the App Store since R is not 
> allowed given current rules (no programming languages). Interestingly, if you 
> were to use R to build an application that was NOT a programming language, 
> that would be fine. (there are Smalltalk and Mono-based Apps in the store).
> 

I don't think the programming language would be the main concern (that's 
something we could talk to Apple about - they usually like scientific apps), 
but I suspect they may have more objections to the dynamic linking that R uses 
- I don't think they would let us download/use packages.

Cheers,
Simon


> On Fri, Jan 29, 2010 at 10:45 PM, David Winsemius
>  wrote:
>> 
>> On Jan 29, 2010, at 11:06 PM, Matthew Cohen wrote:
>> 
>>> I think it might be worthwhile to think about getting R to work on the
>>> iPad, especially if it can access iWork/Numbers spreadsheets...  I realize
>>> someone brought up trying this on the iPhone a couple of years back, and no
>>> one was able to figure out what the point would be.  But R on the iPad seems
>>> like it would be genuinely useful...
>>> 
>>> I'm not sure that I have much to contribute in terms of making this
>>> happen, but I'm wondering if anyone who is familiar with the iPhone SDK
>>> (especially anyone who has played around with 3.2) knows how feasible it
>>> would be...
>> 
>> Show us an open-source C and Fortran compiler for the iPad.
>> 
>> --
>> 
>> David Winsemius, MD
>> Heritage Laboratories
>> West Hartford, CT
>> 
>> ___
>> R-SIG-Mac mailing list
>> [email protected]
>> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-sig-mac
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Byron Ellis ([email protected])
> "Oook" -- The Librarian
> 
> ___
> R-SIG-Mac mailing list
> [email protected]
> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-sig-mac
> 
> 

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Re: [R-SIG-Mac] iPad?

2010-01-29 Thread Byron Ellis
Erm... Not so difficult, the iPhone toolchain is using gcc and it
wouldn't be hard to make an ARM gfortran... I think Simon did on a
lark when the iPhone came out.

The real problem is actually getting it onto the App Store since R is
not allowed given current rules (no programming languages).
Interestingly, if you were to use R to build an application that was
NOT a programming language, that would be fine. (there are Smalltalk
and Mono-based Apps in the store).

On Fri, Jan 29, 2010 at 10:45 PM, David Winsemius
 wrote:
>
> On Jan 29, 2010, at 11:06 PM, Matthew Cohen wrote:
>
>> I think it might be worthwhile to think about getting R to work on the
>> iPad, especially if it can access iWork/Numbers spreadsheets...  I realize
>> someone brought up trying this on the iPhone a couple of years back, and no
>> one was able to figure out what the point would be.  But R on the iPad seems
>> like it would be genuinely useful...
>>
>> I'm not sure that I have much to contribute in terms of making this
>> happen, but I'm wondering if anyone who is familiar with the iPhone SDK
>> (especially anyone who has played around with 3.2) knows how feasible it
>> would be...
>
> Show us an open-source C and Fortran compiler for the iPad.
>
> --
>
> David Winsemius, MD
> Heritage Laboratories
> West Hartford, CT
>
> ___
> R-SIG-Mac mailing list
> [email protected]
> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-sig-mac
>



-- 
Byron Ellis ([email protected])
"Oook" -- The Librarian

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Re: [R-SIG-Mac] iPad?

2010-01-29 Thread David Winsemius


On Jan 29, 2010, at 11:06 PM, Matthew Cohen wrote:

I think it might be worthwhile to think about getting R to work on  
the iPad, especially if it can access iWork/Numbers spreadsheets...   
I realize someone brought up trying this on the iPhone a couple of  
years back, and no one was able to figure out what the point would  
be.  But R on the iPad seems like it would be genuinely useful...


I'm not sure that I have much to contribute in terms of making this  
happen, but I'm wondering if anyone who is familiar with the iPhone  
SDK (especially anyone who has played around with 3.2) knows how  
feasible it would be...


Show us an open-source C and Fortran compiler for the iPad.

--

David Winsemius, MD
Heritage Laboratories
West Hartford, CT

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