[R-sig-phylo] Measuring Phylogenetic Signal

2018-07-13 Thread Alyson Brokaw
Hello Everyone, I am working with a comparative dataset using bat morphometrics. As part of my analysis, I want to estimate the phylogenetic signal of my variables. I understand how to do this using R. My question is more specifically about what kind of data I should be using when calculating the

Re: [R-sig-phylo] Measuring Phylogenetic Signal

2018-07-13 Thread Liam J. Revell
Dear Alyson. There is no general rule about this; however, my suggestion would be to use log-scaled values. This is because on a log-scale proportional changes in the trait are equal, independent of the magnitude of the trait. That is, a change of 1% in mass of whale is the same as a change i

Re: [R-sig-phylo] Measuring Phylogenetic Signal

2018-07-13 Thread Theodore Garland
I agree with everything that Liam wrote -- right on. Another point is that if you are looking at morphometric traits, then most of them are probably highly positively correlated with body size. In that case, testing for phylogenetic signal in, say, wing length, is going to be largely redundant wi

Re: [R-sig-phylo] Measuring Phylogenetic Signal

2018-07-13 Thread David Bapst
Alyson- Following off of what Liam said, one thing to consider is as most measures of phylogenetic signal aren't relative to the units of the traits considered, any transformation of the data should be about equally interpretable. To take a spin with Liam's example, if , if the log-scale trait had

Re: [R-sig-phylo] Measuring Phylogenetic Signal

2018-07-13 Thread Manabu Sakamoto
Following on from what Ted just said about size-correction - one can use a phylogenetic regression (GLS) with the trait of interest as the dependent variable and size as the independent variable, while simultaneously estimating lambda. The program BayesTraits can do this ( http://www.evolution.rdg.

Re: [R-sig-phylo] Measuring Phylogenetic Signal

2018-07-13 Thread Theodore Garland
Yes, certainly, but if you want something like the K statistic of Blomberg et al. (2003), which will let you compare with a lot of other traits in their database, then you need to do the univariate calculations on size-corrected data. Also, if you are worried about saying "signal was significant f