Re: [racket-users] Announcing Fission Flare, a falling block video game

[Christine Lemmer-Webber]

Looks very fun. :)

Ryan Kramer  writes:

> I've just released v0.1 of a falling block video game:
> https://github.com/default-kramer/fission-flare It draws a lot of
> inspiration from Dr Mario but I don't like to advertise that since my
> game has plenty of unique ideas. And although the patent on Dr Mario
> has expired, I'm not a lawyer and I don't want to invite trouble.
>
> The game is 100% Racket, most of it Typed. The graphics are all done
> using pict. Perhaps I'll start a blog and write up some of the more
> interesting things I learned, but not today.
>
> Warning - it can be pretty addicting! Well over 90% of my
> "development" time was just me playing the game.

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Re: [racket-users] What is the correct name for non-list parenthesized forms?

[Robby Findler]

Another approach is to give it a name in the documentation and use that
name (following Jay's earlier message).

Robby


On Fri, Sep 24, 2021 at 1:37 PM 'John Clements' via Racket Users <
racket-users@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> I think I wouldn’t say “accepts”; I usually reserve this term for
> functions, but that’s a minor quibble.
>
> I think I would call these “clauses”, as in
>
> “With-handlers allows the user to specify exception-handling clauses. Each
> one includes two parts: a predicate, indicating whether blah blah blah, and
> a handler, which is called blah blah blah.”
>
> No?
>
> John
>
> > On Sep 24, 2021, at 11:28, David Storrs  wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Sep 24, 2021 at 1:49 PM Jay McCarthy 
> wrote:
> > I think the word you're looking for is "syntax". Many people think that
> languages like Racket "don't have syntax" or "have uniform syntax", but
> this is an example of how that is incorrect. Each macro has its own unique
> syntax and this is an example of how `let` has a unique syntax where `(`
> does _not_ mean "apply a function" or "apply a macro".
> >
> > As a poor analogy, many human languages have a wide set of phonemes and
> you combine those in certain rules (like you can't have 27 consonant sounds
> in a row) and then use them in wider situations that we call grammar. I
> like to think that languages like C has lots of phonemes and little
> grammar, because there are lots of rules about how to form "C words" but
> basically no rules for how to form "C sentences", because there's a lot of
> uniformity in how expressions and statements combine. In contrast,
> languages like Racket have very few phonemes (this is what I think people
> mean why they say "there is no syntax") but many varied rules (in fact,
> arbitrary, because macros can customize them) for combining those smaller
> units.
> >
> > So there's no specific term for this structure?  I was looking for a
> standardized way to say something like "with-handlers accepts a group of
> two-element groups where each subgroup consists of a predicate and an
> action."
> >
> > Jay
> >
> > --
> > Jay McCarthy
> > Associate Professor @ CS @ UMass Lowell
> > http://jeapostrophe.github.io
> > Vincit qui se vincit.
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Sep 24, 2021 at 1:25 PM David Storrs 
> wrote:
> > Racket has a number of forms that include what look like lists of lists
> but are not.  For example:  (let ((foo 7) (bar 8)) ...)
> >
> > What would the '(foo 7)' and '(bar 8)' elements be called?  Groups,
> maybe?
> >
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "Racket Users" group.
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> an email to racket-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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> .
> >
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Re: [racket-users] Strange readline/racket-mode behavior

[David Storrs]

The dev team will have to answer your actual question, but I thought I
might offer a more compact solution that incorporates the fix you mentioned:

(define (yn #:read-one-char? [read-one-char? #f])
  (display "y/n: ")
  (flush-output (current-output-port))
  (define func (if read-one-char? read-char read-line))
  (match (list (func) (func))
[(list _ (or #\y #\Y "y" "Y")) #t]
[_ #f]))

On Fri, Sep 24, 2021 at 3:01 PM Winston Weinert  wrote:

> Hey everyone,
>
> I was working on a procedure to prompt the user for confirmation and found
> something a bit strange - it did not appear to read for input when usingt
> "racket -i" or in the Emacs Racket REPL buffer.  Here is the code:
>
> (define (yn #:read-one-char? [read-one-char? #f])
>   (display "y/n: ")
>   (flush-output (current-output-port))
>   (if read-one-char?
>   (match (read-char)
> [(or #\y #\Y) #t]
> [m #f])
>   (match (read-line)
> [(or "y" "Y") #t]
> [m #f])))
>
> Regardless if I use read-char or read-line and type y or Y, the behavior
> seeims
> similar, each of the match's second clause is followed because (read-char)
> returns #\newline whereas read-line returns "" (empty string).
>
> I mentioned this strange behavior on the Libera chat and got an
> enlightening
> response from tonyg outlining what is happening:
>
> > at the repl, if you type "(read-char)" and press enter, the reader sees
> ( r e
> > a d - c h a r ) NEWLINE. When it gets to the close-parenthesis, it
> executes
> > the expression, which reads the NEWLINE character and returns. Similar
> for
> > read-line, where it sees NEWLINE and returns an empty line
> >
> > try typing (list (read-line) (read-line))
>
> I can confirm tonyg's solution works.  The (list (read-char) (read-char))
> also
> appears to work, though one always has to type a final newline to send the
> line-buffered input.
>
> The behavior feels very surprising and took me a bit of time to figure out,
> even then I didn't really understand it so I had to ask for help.  Can this
> behavior be changed in a future release?  Is a reasonable request or could
> this
> break a lot of code?  If this could break stuff, is it worth doing
> changing it
> anyway, so the behavior is less surprising?  I hope to understand if it's
> agreeable to make a PR for this change before investing the time.
>
> Keep on Racketing!
>
> Winston Weinert
> winny.tech
>
> --
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> .
>

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[racket-users] Strange readline/racket-mode behavior

[Winston Weinert]

Hey everyone,

I was working on a procedure to prompt the user for confirmation and found
something a bit strange - it did not appear to read for input when usingt
"racket -i" or in the Emacs Racket REPL buffer.  Here is the code:

(define (yn #:read-one-char? [read-one-char? #f])
  (display "y/n: ")
  (flush-output (current-output-port))
  (if read-one-char?
  (match (read-char)
[(or #\y #\Y) #t]
[m #f])
  (match (read-line)
[(or "y" "Y") #t]
[m #f])))

Regardless if I use read-char or read-line and type y or Y, the behavior seeims
similar, each of the match's second clause is followed because (read-char)
returns #\newline whereas read-line returns "" (empty string).

I mentioned this strange behavior on the Libera chat and got an enlightening
response from tonyg outlining what is happening:

> at the repl, if you type "(read-char)" and press enter, the reader sees ( r e
> a d - c h a r ) NEWLINE. When it gets to the close-parenthesis, it executes
> the expression, which reads the NEWLINE character and returns. Similar for
> read-line, where it sees NEWLINE and returns an empty line
>
> try typing (list (read-line) (read-line))

I can confirm tonyg's solution works.  The (list (read-char) (read-char)) also
appears to work, though one always has to type a final newline to send the
line-buffered input.

The behavior feels very surprising and took me a bit of time to figure out,
even then I didn't really understand it so I had to ask for help.  Can this
behavior be changed in a future release?  Is a reasonable request or could this
break a lot of code?  If this could break stuff, is it worth doing changing it
anyway, so the behavior is less surprising?  I hope to understand if it's
agreeable to make a PR for this change before investing the time.

Keep on Racketing!

Winston Weinert
winny.tech

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Re: [racket-users] What is the correct name for non-list parenthesized forms?

[Jay McCarthy]

On Fri, Sep 24, 2021 at 2:45 PM David Storrs  wrote:

> Offtopic question for someone else:  Jay, are you related to
> Lisp-inventory John McCarthy?
>

Nope, although we have the same name and nickname

Jay

--
Jay McCarthy
Associate Professor @ CS @ UMass Lowell
http://jeapostrophe.github.io
Vincit qui se vincit.

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Re: [racket-users] What is the correct name for non-list parenthesized forms?

[David Storrs]

On Fri, Sep 24, 2021 at 2:37 PM John Clements 
wrote:

> I think I wouldn’t say “accepts”; I usually reserve this term for
> functions, but that’s a minor quibble.
>
> I think I would call these “clauses”, as in
>
> “With-handlers allows the user to specify exception-handling clauses. Each
> one includes two parts: a predicate, indicating whether blah blah blah, and
> a handler, which is called blah blah blah.”
>
> No?
>
> John
>

That seems reasonable.  Thanks, John.



Offtopic question for someone else:  Jay, are you related to Lisp-inventory
John McCarthy?

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Re: [racket-users] What is the correct name for non-list parenthesized forms?

['John Clements' via Racket Users]

I think I wouldn’t say “accepts”; I usually reserve this term for functions, 
but that’s a minor quibble.

I think I would call these “clauses”, as in

“With-handlers allows the user to specify exception-handling clauses. Each one 
includes two parts: a predicate, indicating whether blah blah blah, and a 
handler, which is called blah blah blah.”

No?

John

> On Sep 24, 2021, at 11:28, David Storrs  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> On Fri, Sep 24, 2021 at 1:49 PM Jay McCarthy  wrote:
> I think the word you're looking for is "syntax". Many people think that 
> languages like Racket "don't have syntax" or "have uniform syntax", but this 
> is an example of how that is incorrect. Each macro has its own unique syntax 
> and this is an example of how `let` has a unique syntax where `(` does _not_ 
> mean "apply a function" or "apply a macro".
> 
> As a poor analogy, many human languages have a wide set of phonemes and you 
> combine those in certain rules (like you can't have 27 consonant sounds in a 
> row) and then use them in wider situations that we call grammar. I like to 
> think that languages like C has lots of phonemes and little grammar, because 
> there are lots of rules about how to form "C words" but basically no rules 
> for how to form "C sentences", because there's a lot of uniformity in how 
> expressions and statements combine. In contrast, languages like Racket have 
> very few phonemes (this is what I think people mean why they say "there is no 
> syntax") but many varied rules (in fact, arbitrary, because macros can 
> customize them) for combining those smaller units.
> 
> So there's no specific term for this structure?  I was looking for a 
> standardized way to say something like "with-handlers accepts a group of 
> two-element groups where each subgroup consists of a predicate and an action."
> 
> Jay
> 
> --
> Jay McCarthy
> Associate Professor @ CS @ UMass Lowell
> http://jeapostrophe.github.io
> Vincit qui se vincit.
> 
> 
> On Fri, Sep 24, 2021 at 1:25 PM David Storrs  wrote:
> Racket has a number of forms that include what look like lists of lists but 
> are not.  For example:  (let ((foo 7) (bar 8)) ...)
> 
> What would the '(foo 7)' and '(bar 8)' elements be called?  Groups, maybe?
> 
> -- 
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> 
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Re: [racket-users] What is the correct name for non-list parenthesized forms?

[David Storrs]

On Fri, Sep 24, 2021 at 1:49 PM Jay McCarthy  wrote:

> I think the word you're looking for is "syntax". Many people think that
> languages like Racket "don't have syntax" or "have uniform syntax", but
> this is an example of how that is incorrect. Each macro has its own unique
> syntax and this is an example of how `let` has a unique syntax where `(`
> does _not_ mean "apply a function" or "apply a macro".
>
> As a poor analogy, many human languages have a wide set of phonemes and
> you combine those in certain rules (like you can't have 27 consonant sounds
> in a row) and then use them in wider situations that we call grammar. I
> like to think that languages like C has lots of phonemes and little
> grammar, because there are lots of rules about how to form "C words" but
> basically no rules for how to form "C sentences", because there's a lot of
> uniformity in how expressions and statements combine. In contrast,
> languages like Racket have very few phonemes (this is what I think people
> mean why they say "there is no syntax") but many varied rules (in fact,
> arbitrary, because macros can customize them) for combining those smaller
> units.
>

So there's no specific term for this structure?  I was looking for a
standardized way to say something like "with-handlers accepts a group of
two-element groups where each subgroup consists of a predicate and an
action."

>
> Jay
>
> --
> Jay McCarthy
> Associate Professor @ CS @ UMass Lowell
> http://jeapostrophe.github.io
> Vincit qui se vincit.
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 24, 2021 at 1:25 PM David Storrs 
> wrote:
>
>> Racket has a number of forms that include what look like lists of lists
>> but are not.  For example:  (let ((foo 7) (bar 8)) ...)
>>
>> What would the '(foo 7)' and '(bar 8)' elements be called?  Groups, maybe?
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
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>> email to racket-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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>> 
>> .
>>
>

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Re: [racket-users] What is the correct name for non-list parenthesized forms?

[David Storrs]

On Fri, Sep 24, 2021 at 1:40 PM Sorawee Porncharoenwase <
sorawee.pw...@gmail.com> wrote:

> It's usually called "binding pair". See also
> https://docs.racket-lang.org/syntax/stxparse-intro.html which defines a
> syntax class describing the said structure.
>

Okay, but what about in (with-handlers ((symbol? (lambda (e) (displayln
e  ...)?  That's an association between two things but not a binding
pair.  Also, sorry, I should have been clearer up front by giving more than
the one example.


> On Fri, Sep 24, 2021 at 10:25 AM David Storrs 
> wrote:
>
>> Racket has a number of forms that include what look like lists of lists
>> but are not.  For example:  (let ((foo 7) (bar 8)) ...)
>>
>> What would the '(foo 7)' and '(bar 8)' elements be called?  Groups, maybe?
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "Racket Users" group.
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>> email to racket-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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>> 
>> .
>>
>

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Re: [racket-users] What is the correct name for non-list parenthesized forms?

[Robby Findler]

An answer to a third question that might also have been the one that was
asked :)

You might call it a "sequence".

Robby


On Fri, Sep 24, 2021 at 12:50 PM Jay McCarthy 
wrote:

> I think the word you're looking for is "syntax". Many people think that
> languages like Racket "don't have syntax" or "have uniform syntax", but
> this is an example of how that is incorrect. Each macro has its own unique
> syntax and this is an example of how `let` has a unique syntax where `(`
> does _not_ mean "apply a function" or "apply a macro".
>
> As a poor analogy, many human languages have a wide set of phonemes and
> you combine those in certain rules (like you can't have 27 consonant sounds
> in a row) and then use them in wider situations that we call grammar. I
> like to think that languages like C has lots of phonemes and little
> grammar, because there are lots of rules about how to form "C words" but
> basically no rules for how to form "C sentences", because there's a lot of
> uniformity in how expressions and statements combine. In contrast,
> languages like Racket have very few phonemes (this is what I think people
> mean why they say "there is no syntax") but many varied rules (in fact,
> arbitrary, because macros can customize them) for combining those smaller
> units.
>
> Jay
>
> --
> Jay McCarthy
> Associate Professor @ CS @ UMass Lowell
> http://jeapostrophe.github.io
> Vincit qui se vincit.
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 24, 2021 at 1:25 PM David Storrs 
> wrote:
>
>> Racket has a number of forms that include what look like lists of lists
>> but are not.  For example:  (let ((foo 7) (bar 8)) ...)
>>
>> What would the '(foo 7)' and '(bar 8)' elements be called?  Groups, maybe?
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "Racket Users" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to racket-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/CAE8gKodX800fK45c_dyVFCNB-AKmYmK26DxC42ZRDVHdzJ2Q7g%40mail.gmail.com
>> 
>> .
>>
> --
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> 
> .
>

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Re: [racket-users] What is the correct name for non-list parenthesized forms?

[Jay McCarthy]

I think the word you're looking for is "syntax". Many people think that
languages like Racket "don't have syntax" or "have uniform syntax", but
this is an example of how that is incorrect. Each macro has its own unique
syntax and this is an example of how `let` has a unique syntax where `(`
does _not_ mean "apply a function" or "apply a macro".

As a poor analogy, many human languages have a wide set of phonemes and you
combine those in certain rules (like you can't have 27 consonant sounds in
a row) and then use them in wider situations that we call grammar. I like
to think that languages like C has lots of phonemes and little grammar,
because there are lots of rules about how to form "C words" but basically
no rules for how to form "C sentences", because there's a lot of uniformity
in how expressions and statements combine. In contrast, languages like
Racket have very few phonemes (this is what I think people mean why they
say "there is no syntax") but many varied rules (in fact, arbitrary,
because macros can customize them) for combining those smaller units.

Jay

--
Jay McCarthy
Associate Professor @ CS @ UMass Lowell
http://jeapostrophe.github.io
Vincit qui se vincit.


On Fri, Sep 24, 2021 at 1:25 PM David Storrs  wrote:

> Racket has a number of forms that include what look like lists of lists
> but are not.  For example:  (let ((foo 7) (bar 8)) ...)
>
> What would the '(foo 7)' and '(bar 8)' elements be called?  Groups, maybe?
>
> --
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Re: [racket-users] What is the correct name for non-list parenthesized forms?

[Sorawee Porncharoenwase]

It's usually called "binding pair". See also
https://docs.racket-lang.org/syntax/stxparse-intro.html which defines a
syntax class describing the said structure.

On Fri, Sep 24, 2021 at 10:25 AM David Storrs 
wrote:

> Racket has a number of forms that include what look like lists of lists
> but are not.  For example:  (let ((foo 7) (bar 8)) ...)
>
> What would the '(foo 7)' and '(bar 8)' elements be called?  Groups, maybe?
>
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[racket-users] What is the correct name for non-list parenthesized forms?

[David Storrs]

Racket has a number of forms that include what look like lists of lists but
are not.  For example:  (let ((foo 7) (bar 8)) ...)

What would the '(foo 7)' and '(bar 8)' elements be called?  Groups, maybe?

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