spearman wrote on 07/06/2017 02:06 PM:
They claim to support the full Scheme standard so I guess there's a runtime
and/or GC gets involved at some point, something I would like to avoid.
Correct, you do need GC, in the normal case. (Though a whole lot of RAM
or swap would work in many
Let's say I'd like to move Racket apps closer to old-school Emacs-like
extensibility. Such as very-low-friction way to use arbitrary Racket
code to set app preferences, and to hook into behavior of the app and
add features. And generally encouraging everyone to get their hands
dirty coding
Any standard pixmap library that is sufficiently fast *without* using
"unsafe" language is a win. Pixmap libraries are one of the most
prolific class of unacceptably buggy code implemented C, and routinely
provide remote exploit vectors via Web browsers and copied document
files, as well as
I don't know the answer to your particular questions with `web-server`
(I've made my own implementations of this in the past), and these
comments might not apply to your particular application, but I'll
mention here for whomever is interested...
It sounds like you're using this, which might
Deren Dohoda wrote on 06/23/2017 06:52 PM:
I already screwed up my uploaded package by using a plural and then
later read that the style guide suggests singulars.
Conscientiousness in a community is admirable. But my opinion is to not
worry too much about that particular perceived faux pas.
Jack Firth wrote on 06/23/2017 04:47 PM:
Pot-stirring question: do you think it would make more sense to name
the collection `math/glpk` instead of just `glpk`?
You're exactly right, it's a controversial question. :)
In general, for a flexible, decentralized ecology of third-party
packages,
I think this thread has gotten delightfully meta, in that I've heard
that some people who would like to contribute in forums get scared away
when observing interaction styles that they find very confrontational.
Not that I always remember this myself, and I also make other mistakes,
but...
Robby's answer was more idiomatic Racket, and mine was
idomatic-Scheme-and-also-OK-Racket, by habit. :)
I'd suggest reading both implementations. As you learn more Racket,
you'll start to get a feel for your preferred linguistic style(s), and
you'll notice different people have a lot more
Welcome to Racket!
One intro-to-Racket-compared-to-some-other-languages thing I'll just say
upfront is that you don't want to modify the string itself, not that you
asked to. (Not all Racket strings are mutable. Plus, mutating
introduces a bunch more possibilities for bugs, and for string
This is not my call, but in the traditional Racket convention of
everyone voicing thoughts...
One gentle way to communicate awareness and intent of inclusiveness:
"The Racket community enjoys and appreciates a collegial and
helpful atmosphere, in which everyone feels welcome. We expect
Unfortunately, event "codes of conduct" started, in part, as reactions
to actual bad behavior at some (non-Racket) events.
I agree that RacketCon doesn't need a code of conduct to tell people how
to behave. But people relatively new to Racket might not know that.
Hence, the conventional
Good point. The Strange Loop policy looks OK to me. Another one I
think is OK is FSF LibrePlanet's.
Racket is an usually good community (which is the biggest reason I'm
here), and I really don't expect any problem at RacketCon. But I know
that these kinds of policies have been necessary
Aside on a security issue with some example code... I know in this case
it was being done as prototype/experiment, which is perfectly fine, but
since people often learn from code they see on the email list, we should
probably mention...
(system/exit-code (string-append
Steve Byan's Lists wrote on 05/31/2017 10:05 PM:
I'd appreciate a short example of what you mean by using `apply` and
`lambda` to destructure the list.
I'll babble more than you want here, in case anyone on the list is
curious in general...
#lang racket/base
(define
In addition to what others have mentioned, at this scale, you might get
significant gains by adjusting your s-expression language.
For example, instead of this:
(pmem_flush
(threadId 140339047277632)
(startTime 923983542377819)
(elapsedTime 160)
(result 0)
(addr 0x7fa239055954)
(length
Erich Rast wrote on 05/30/2017 04:37 PM:
I've found out that it's far less trivial than expected, but not
because of sxml or the tree walking itself. Often call/input-url
just returns '() or '(*TOP*),
To troubleshoot this... First, I'd take a quick look at the application
code. Then I'd
Erich Rast wrote on 05/30/2017 07:08 AM:
I need a function to provide a rough textual preview (without
formatting except newlines) of the content of a web page.
Writing a procedure that does what you want should be pretty easy, and
then you can fine-tune it to your particular application.
Stephen De Gabrielle wrote on 05/28/2017 09:08 AM:
> But don't discount the potential of throwing a young child at a
computer with
> only non-child software on it, and let them figure out
> how to do what they want, much on their own. That's how the early-1980s
> home computer kids got started,
Hendrik Boom wrote on 04/30/2017 08:25 AM:
On Sat, Apr 29, 2017 at 05:24:39PM -0400, Neil Van Dyke wrote:
Alternatively, and simpler: you might have two window panes, one in which
the user writes Scribble source, and another that gives an almost-live
semi-WYSIWYG view of how the source would
If some undergrad wanted a summer programming project... make a
semi-WYSIWYG editor for Scribble documents.
You might have a long scrolling text window, in which things like
boldface/italics/color/textsize that Scribble would render are editable
text, and Scribble markup itself doesn't appear
Stephen De Gabrielle wrote on 04/29/2017 03:18 PM:
Ubuntu Linux is cheap, includes an alternative to ms word, gets
regular updates and (most importantly) runs racket fine.
Debian, RHEL/CentOS, Fedora, ArchLinux, and (maybe) Ubuntu are all good
choices for people who don't *have* to run
Agreed. If you have rock-solid Google's Protocol Buffers
implementations on both ends, their schema formalism works for you, and
you don't mind the protocol being harder for a programmer to eyeball in
most tools than sexp/JSON, then (the unfortunately-named :) Protocol
Buffers is a great
I think there's a typo, with the decodes and encodes backwards.
#lang racket/base
(require net/base64)
(base64-decode (base64-encode #"xxx"))
;;==> #"xxx"
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Sorry for the short notice[*], but the FSF's major LibrePlanet
conference is this weekend at MIT.
Some of the talks look potentially relevant to Racketeers, like "The
Lisp machine and GNU" and "The set of programmers: How math restricts us".
Would be good to have some Racket presence there,
Dan Liebgold wrote on 02/16/2017 02:33 PM:
How can I rewrite this so that it either eats the exception or is atomic?
I think the difficulty here is that you don't know for certain why a
`make-directory` failed, so maybe conditionally re-raising the exception
is the way:
(define
Jack Firth wrote on 01/31/2017 03:11 PM:
If the package build server and catalog hosted built packages for
multiple Racket versions, I think we could go a long ways towards
removing the need to split packages completely.
If there's important requirements driving that, and if that's a good
Greg Trzeciak wrote on 01/31/2017 01:24 PM:
Speaking of packages - there seems to be a trend recently in racket packages to create
separate packages for main, lib, doc, test, etc. This causes an artificial inflation in
available packages and IMHO may cause some confusion for newcomers as
Matthew Flatt wrote on 01/28/2017 08:45 PM:
You can use `raco pkg config` to set `catalogs`. There's also a
"Settings" panel in DrRacket's "Package Manager..." dialog.
OK, thanks. Setting `raco pkg config --set catalogs` to a non-empty
value seems to work for disabling.
(Were I writing a
How does a Racket user prevent Racket tools they run from accessing the
default package server catalogs, by default? And also make Racket use
their own package catalogs, by default?
Probably I'm just not finding one piece of documentation that already
exists?
I see the following
Leif Andersen wrote on 01/27/2017 02:45 PM:
Do we actually have a trademark on the Racket logo?
I believe PLT can claim trademarks on the logo and the name (without
registration costs -- the "tm" rather than the circle-R), and then just
needs to police a tiny bit, to keep it from falling
[This message is a resend, because the first attempt hasn't gone
through, after several hours.]
You can also do HTML 5 (possibly Offline), together with whatever JS
libraries you want for UX and for cross-browser differences (especially
for client-side storage of larger data), and have it
Matthias Felleisen wrote on 01/22/2017 07:07 PM:
It’s not TCO, it’s PITCH (proper implementation of tail calls) — there is no
optimization going on :-)
As usual, Matthias is correct.
As I was typing the original sentence, I had the thought "TCO isn't the
right term", but I was lazy or
Quoting "https://github.com/vishesh/racketscript/blob/master/README.md":
RacketScript doesn't support Racket features which are expensive, for
example proper tail calls and continuations.
Do you have plans to revist the tail call question within RacketScript?
TCO is essential to idiomatic
David Storrs wrote on 01/19/2017 03:08 PM:
of events but I still know nothing about detecting filesystem change
events. I've looked through PLaneT and found nothing that seems like
an FS-monitoring package. Can anyone suggest how to do this?
Here's a simple example, using `sync`:
#lang
This doesn't help anyone who's committed fully to a platform, but if one
is not, or when one has the opportunity to evolve, it should be mentioned...
When an organization emphasizes real open systems (which currently
probably means HTTPS Web services, talking in XML or JSON, and perhaps
SQL,
Lawrence Bottorff wrote on 01/14/2017 09:48 AM:
I was wondering if Racket could be used to create a new sort of GIS app, i.e., geographic
information system. It would have to do "vector graphics," which is to say every
primitive drawing object is real, i.e., isn't just a setup step toward
* Remember that, although Racket is rich with various kinds of
namespaces, documentation lookup for the core Racket and add-on packages
really prefer that names are mostly unique globally. (I won't get into
readability tradeoffs, for various use cases that come up.) See thread
Just my own current thinking, on laying out paragraph-heavy text, like
Racket documentation...
For laying out (or typesetting) paragraphs of text single-column --
whether it's in a paper book or on-screen -- note that we have a maximum
column width that the human eye can scan well, for
The November through January school break(s), in the US and elsewhere,
are a good time for students to get in some significant self-directed
programming projects.
One fun idea, which might be especially interesting to do in Racket in
particular, is to implement a game inspired by the
If I want to write a GUI program with a simple syntax-colored text
language for a UI[*]... do I want to use just `editor-canvas%`, or will
the additional work of using `framework` save me a lot of work in the end?
[*] One frame, consisting only of a text editor, with line-oriented
language
Has anyone written an HTML sanitizer in Racket?
Mine isn't available (it was a simple use of one of my XML
transformation DSLs that wasn't released).
Writing a simple one from scratch is easy, as you said. Possibly easy
enough that it's less work to do yourself, rather than try someone
Has anyone deployed Racket with Elastic Beanstalk (presumably using Docker)?
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Eugene Wallingford wrote on 04/21/2016 11:18 AM:
This also reminds me fondly of Smalltalk's separable message
names. They always felt more natural to me than more typical
keyword arguments.
On a tangent, Smalltalk-like names weren't hard to implement just now,
with
One thing I have wanted to try is a `#lang` for a subset of Racket
(everything but the most problematic bits), which expands to multiple
modules with different equivalent implementations: Racket code, strings
of C code, strings of Java code, strings of JavaScript code, strings of
code for
XHTML is dead. I would work from HTML5, and keep HTML 4.x in mind.
I have considered a struct representation, and would definitely do that
if I were writing a Web browser, but for now, there's too much reason to
just use SXML and all the tools around it.
Note that for some purposes, an
For those who'd like to "give back" to Racket, but who are not in a
position to sponsor the convention, some other things that lots of
people do:
* Contribute open source packages.
* Help out on the email list.
* When you've used Racket successfully, tell the email list. (For
stealth-mode,
Josh Tilles wrote on 04/12/2016 11:23 PM:
I'm writing an implementation of KLambda, a tiny (the "K" stands for
"Kernel") and rather idiosyncratic Lisp.
This is the best URL I found for what I think is KLambda:
http://shenlanguage.org/Documentation/shendoc.htm#Kl
I had expected there to be
Josh Tilles wrote on 04/11/2016 07:51 PM:
I'm trying to implement a Lisp-2 in Racket,
I would first decide whether and how I want functions and variables
provided by modules in this language, to be usable from modules in other
`#lang`s. That narrows down the options of how to do it.
If
Maybe someone should verbalize what many of us know: DrRacket is useful,
and pretty neat.
I'm a long-time Emacs person, but DrRacket has some conveniences and
killer features that keep me coming back.
(One of these days, I should get off my posterior, and learn how to make
various
I suggest that people posting replies to posts on this email list try to
*minimize* quoting of the previous post(s).
A sufficiently good discussion of this is at:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Trimming_and_reformatting
Neil V.
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I found a solution to my problem. I realised that it was better to
use a function instead of a macro to generate the code. I created a
list and appended the different parts of the code I wanted to generate
in bottom up manner. eval-ing the list can run the code.
If that works for you, good.
Does either the below `fun-now` or `make-fun-for-later` do what you want?
BEGIN CODE
#lang racket/base
(define conditional-actions
(list (cons (lambda () (= 2 (+ 1 1)))
(lambda () (display "first!\n")))
(cons (lambda () (= 42 (* 2 21)))
(lambda ()
cna...@cs.washington.edu wrote on 03/30/2016 05:11 PM:
I still need to explicitly pass all the arguments to mysyn such as:
(mysyn 1 2 3). Is there a way to pass a list l by its name and not its values.
For instance, If l is '(1 2 3)
I want to be able to call the macro as (mysyn l) and not (mysyn
Robby Findler wrote on 03/30/2016 04:45 PM:
Perhaps we should improve the syntax-parse documentation? I found the
overview and examples to be pretty good, tho.
When the goal is to teach syntax extension, maybe it would make sense to
pick *one* syntax extension form to introduce to people, and
Oops, I usually end up typing one of the names wrong. Summary:
* syntax-case -- good one to start with, smooth path to syntax-parse
* syntax-parse -- best thing ever, but documentation is intimidating, so
maybe start with syntax-case instead
* syntax-rules -- old, limited, no smooth path,
You had the right idea, if you're using `syntax-rules`, but there were a
few small problems:
BEGIN
#lang racket
(define-syntax mysyn
(syntax-rules ()
((_ NAME ELEMENTn ...)
(define (NAME)
(display ELEMENTn) ...
(mysyn fun 1 2 3)
(fun)
END
But, if
If this would be easy to add to DrRacket, it might be worthwhile...
When you mouseover syntax for a toplevel identifier, a tooltip-like
transient display can sometimes show the value. (By sometimes, I mean,
perhaps, when either there is a run in progress, or a run has completed
and the value
Brian Adkins wrote on 03/21/2016 11:37 AM:
As I mentioned in my original post, I wasn't suggesting we emulate the Elixir
behavior - I was really just curious about macro limitations :)
I have hijacked the thread. Pray I do not hijack it further. :)
`define/provide` seems a bit long to me.
I propose that it's time for `#lang racket/base` to have a `define/provide`.
(Out of all the possible combinations of definition forms and other
things we might often want to do with the defined identifier(s) at the
same time, the pair of `define` and `provide` together is overwhelmingly
the
Could anyone currently working through or teaching SICP please try out
the new `#lang sicp` support, in Jens Axel Sogaard's `sicp` package in
the new package system?
http://docs.racket-lang.org/sicp-manual/
If you find any problems with this, please let me and Jens Axel know.
I'd prefer to
Jay McCarthy wrote on 03/12/2016 01:22 PM:
For my taste, I don't want to run any program on my files to "turn
them into real Racket". So, I would not want to do this as a tool.
Just to be sure I communicated it... The only things I'm doing are
making files `info.rkt` and `.scrbl` be
Any comments on this? These Emacs screenshots show the tentative
"one-source-file package" format that I'd like to use for almost all of
my packages. I'd release a tool so that others can maintain their own
packages in this format, if they want to.
You also need to match the beginning and end of the string:
#rx"^DPTO[1-9][0-9]?$"
Benjamin Greenman wrote on 03/11/2016 05:41 PM:
I'm glad you found #px. The issue here is that bounded repetitions
like {1,2} are not part of the #rx grammar.
But #px supports them just fine.
Thanks, Matthew. Maybe some examples in the docs of the preferred way
to use `racketinput` with single- and multi-line results would be good.
For a long time, I've been doing both of the following, and I could
always see that they were wrong:
(racketinput (+ 1 2)
phil jones wrote on 03/08/2016 06:52 PM:
So the best way to query something created from your html->xexp
function would be to use http://docs.racket-lang.org/sxml/sxpath.html
rather than xml/path?
Yes, I usually use a mix of SXPath and `sxml-match`.
Phil, can you let me know whether this new document clears up
everything? http://www.neilvandyke.org/racket/sxml-intro/
Neil V.
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In Scribble, how does one use `racketresultblock` in combination with
`racketinput`, such that the result expression is formatted with the
same vertical line that the input expression has?
(I know how to do this with `racketresult`, but not for multi-line results.)
Neil V.
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Brian Adkins wrote on 03/03/2016 10:16 AM:
Is there anything analogous to Rack (Ruby) or WSGI (Python), i.e. a standard
protocol between web servers and web applications, in the Racket world?
There's an SCGI package: http://www.neilvandyke.org/racket/scgi/
I originally wrote it because a
Alex Harsanyi wrote on 03/02/2016 11:19 PM:
If it cannot be improved, perhaps a warning message should be printed
in the eval window...
I like this idea. Maybe add to the DrRacket REPL banner, the
debugging/instrumentation options that are enabled.
Welcome to DrRacket, version 6.4 [3m].
If your Racket install is good... You might have instrumentation-heavy
settings in DrRacket, and/or the compilation of your files is somehow
corrupted. Or maybe the cause is with your computer.
Try running your program from the command line, and after deleting your
"compiled" directories for
Marco Morazan wrote on 03/02/2016 01:12 PM:
How do we write a blank to a text file without the parallel bars appearing?
So, (write '| | outfile) produces | | in the file. I want to eliminate the
vertical bars.
That quote and vertical bars are creating an unusual symbol. Do you
instead want
Brian Adkins wrote on 03/01/2016 11:31 PM:
Are there any particular license issues that I should be aware of in this
regard?
I don't know. Looks like core Racket is now LGPLv3, which is pretty
flexible about commercial uses. I've been using LGPLv3 for almost all
of my Racket packages
Sam Tobin-Hochstadt wrote on 03/01/2016 06:32 PM:
One package that I noticed you didn't move was 'htmlprag', which your
web page says is obsolete. I mention this only because some packages
on the pkg server (such as gut and wrap) still use this library. How
trivial is it to port to the new code,
OK, I've moved 23 of my Racket packages from PLaneT to the new package
system, and I plan to move several more. Exactly what's been moved, and
is planned to move, is tracked at "http://www.neilvandyke.org/racket/;.
If you notice any problems related to this move, please email me.
Perhaps the
I'm sorry to hear about your project, but all might not be lost.
If you haven't already, you can try deleted file recovery, since the
file(s) contents may be still intact on your disk, and merely unlinked
from their directory entries. The sooner you try to recover, before
further writing to
Jay McCarthy wrote on 02/25/2016 01:21 PM:
Since you mention "in the wild", I think you probably don't want to
use the html library but instead want to use
http://docs.racket-lang.org/html-parsing/index.html
BTW, `html-parsing` package uses SXML, and you'll want to read this
brand-new
From the Scribble documentation for a third-party package, how do I
link to:
* a core Racket document; and
* the documentation for a third-party package from the catalog?
Ideally, in both cases it would go to locally-installed documentation,
if available, and fallback to "docs.racket-lang.org"
Brian Adkins wrote on 02/24/2016 02:49 PM:
it appears to me that Racket is the strongest of the Scheme-ey lisps, so that's
where I'm investing my time.
After maintaining my open source packages on ~10 different
R4/5RS+SRFI-ish Scheme implementations, I came to a similar conclusion:
now I
The possibility of reinvention and parallel invention... is of course
still better than the opposite extreme. :)
Neil V.
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BTW, the `html-parsing` package in the new package system is now my
official one.
(i'm in the middle of moving ~25 packages from PLaneT, and am tracking
the status at "http://www.neilvandyke.org/racket/;.)
Neil V.
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If there are two packages, "a" and "b", in the package catalog, and the
authors of both packages want their package's documentation to have
hyperlinks to sections of the other package's documentation...
Will that work? Is it OK for how the package system (or catalog, or
build tools) work?
For someone who really wants to learn this well, rather than just make a
lexer and move on...
I started learning the pertinent theory (such as automata NFA/DFA, and
classes of formal languages) from the original red dragon book:
FYI, to SXML-using Racketeers...
I'm moving from PLaneT to the new package system today, so here's info
on some SXML-related things that I expect to do today:
* Today I expect to add a small documentation-only package for all
things SXML-related in Racket, probably called `sxml-overview`.
I just decided to distribute this as a ".el" file now:
http://www.neilvandyke.org/scribble-emacs/
I will add it to one of the Emacs package systems when I get a chance,
probably not soon.
If you find a problem with this package specific to this Spacemacs
thing, I'll consider a small and
ORM and web
framework libraries.
It depends what you're trying to do, and how you want to do it.
Sometimes it goes back to my comments in another thread here the other
day, regarding "DIY":
Neil Van Dyke wrote on 02/13/2016 01:33 PM:
I'd say the biggest downside is that there is
BTW, I now intend to move my packages to the new package system shortly,
and I'll then stop supporting the PLaneT ones.
(There's some urgency to moving now, so I'm going to punt on workarounds
for the version-related differences in the new package system, and cut
some corners on automation
Sounds like the mysterious "we" are forking development, so could you
please mention at the top of the documentation that it's a fork of my
package, not maintained by me, and cite my original one?
The ways I manage my open source contributions are often very
intentional, and unfortunately
Brian Adkins wrote on 02/17/2016 10:35 AM:
1) May I suggest we remove the out of date html-parsing package from the main
package catalog? Had I not had the hiccup with the catalog server, I likely
would've installed the out of date package and not realize what I'd done.
I understand, but
Brian Adkins wrote on 02/17/2016 10:04 AM:
http://www.neilvandyke.org/racket-html-parsing/
takes me to Neil's page with a more recent history: PLaneT 3:0 — 2015-04-24 and
the following require:
(require (planet neil/html-parsing:3:0))
Which package do I want?
You might prefer that one,
George Neuner wrote on 02/16/2016 02:16 PM:
The answer is a proper version control system that supports having
multiple versions available - or better, in use - simultaneously.
+1 This is an improvement I would like in the new package system. It's
important to my open source-friendly process
Matt Jadud wrote on 02/16/2016 12:42 PM:
Serialized data does carry a version tag, but it does not seem to be
pegged to the Racket version that created the structure. The FASL
format IS very much tied to the Racket version. Serialize seems,
essentially, a very verbose, readable format.
CS students and other Racketeers planning to do a startup... You're
probably familiar with what Paul Graham, of Y Combinator fame, has said
about the merits of using Lisp (ahem, Racket) for the initial system.
And sometimes you can also use Racket for the eventual system. So,
you're
Nota Poin wrote on 02/15/2016 03:57 PM:
java bytecode is anything but inscrutable. There have even been decompilers
written for it, as much as developers have tried to push them out of existence.
It's basically assembly language,
It already literally was in the '90s.
Fred Martin wrote on 02/15/2016 12:21 PM:
https://docs.racket-lang.org/reference/serialization.html, which allowed me to
save my object in my definitions buffer along Neil's suggestion. :)
Be aware that the serialize format is Racket-version-specific, so
implications for serialized values
Fred Martin wrote on 02/15/2016 11:25 AM:
In my case presently, "long-computation" is gathering up results from a bunch
of net queries, and the result is a list of hash objects.
Does this (either one) do what you want?
(define important-object
(list (make-hash '((a . 1)
(b
If the pertinent value of `important-object` can be represented in
Racket space without performing `long-computation` (such as in
`read`-able structures, or with constructors and hard-earned constants),
sometimes I run `long-computation` once, copy the result to a
variable assignment in the
Nota Poin wrote on 02/15/2016 05:40 AM:
> [...]
You seem to be itemizing complaints that come to your mind, but I don't
see how all of them are responding to the question you quoted, of "how
is it that such Wonderland is not discovered by much more people?"
For example, this sounds like
Saša Janiška wrote on 02/14/2016 07:10 AM:
Neil Van Dyke <n...@neilvandyke.org> writes:
Being non-mainstream for practitioners, Racket is most popular with
people who have the freedom to choose any tools they want, not forced
into a mainstream set of options. Most often this means indi
Gustavo Massaccesi wrote on 02/13/2016 10:20 AM:
The scripts are slightly different. Is it necessary or it' enough to
change the version and md5?
For Racket 6.4, I would copy the makefile for 6.2 pre-release
(`Makefile-6.1.91.900`), rename it `Makefile`, change the version and
MD5 in the
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