Re: [racket-users] Readers' understanding of the intent of “Quick: An Introduction [...]” and the HtDP2e “Prologue: [...]”.

[gfb]

You are of course right that the term “exercise” doesn't appear where I thought 
it did, and I should have double-checked. The person reading the Prologue 
referred to these as exercises:

“Before you read on, ponder the following changes to your program: [...]
 Better than pondering is doing. It’s the only way to learn. So don’t let us 
stop you. Just do it.”

Earlier in the Prologue it says: “And now you’re ready to write programs that 
make rockets fly.”

As for the links to BSL documentation: if a reader clicks on one of the links 
then I'd like to consider why they clicked. If it's because they're unsure 
about something and see, e.g., ‘(+ x y z ...) → number’, they're unlikely to 
feel more  informed or be reassured.

I'll follow up with proposals, all of which will likely be small 
notes/reminders about the spirit of the Prologue, in certain key places. In 
other words, yes, weaving in the explanations you provided for me in your 
response.

On Monday, 10 April 2017 12:27:33 UTC-4, Matthias Felleisen  wrote:
> To start with, thank you for pointing out hurdles for “beginners” or “people 
> new to Racket.” We listen and we want to improve this material so that 
> everyone can design programs (either Racket or BSL). 
> 
> Let me speak to HtDP/2e because I am responsible for it. I will let Matthew 
> speak to Quick. 
> 
> — I do not know how to address your comment about exercises because the 
> Prologue does not contain any. There is a link to an exercise way into the 
> weeds for exactly the one link that is complicated. 
> 
> — I followed many links from the Prologue to the Docs. There is one 
> overwhelming link: the one to animate. But given the context, I don’t 
> understand why anyone would even want more documentation. The book itself 
> spells out what the function does. Yes, in some sense this is complicated 
> because functions on functions are nothing that people encounter. My hope is 
> that students copy and paste this expression into DrRacket and see a rocket 
> fly. Hello world. 
> 
> — I really do not expect more than ‘read and copy and play and feel somewhat 
> confused.’ That’s why I announce it in the Preface. 
> 
> — I also wrap up the Prologue with “You are not a programmer. Let’s get 
> started.” 
> 
> POSSIBLE ACTIONS: 
> 
> — I could try to turn the links off in the Prologue. But I want to get 
> students in the mind set — look at the docs — because programmers must learn 
> to look at docs. Unless they want to stay Stackoverflow coders. 
> 
> — I could try to weave in another warning into the Prologue that this is 
> meant to be read quickly in the above spirit. 
> 
> — Do you have any other proposals? 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > On Apr 9, 2017, at 2:45 PM, gfb  wrote:
> > 
> > The short summary of this post is: should/could something be added to 
> > clarify the purpose of those materials and reassure newcomers who read them.
> > 
> > “Quick: An Introduction to Racket with Pictures”, and HtDP2e “Prologue: How 
> > to Program”, are both very nice introductions in the sense of “making the 
> > reader aware of”. They cover a lot of material, and the careful selection 
> > of examples, and the narrative, are informative without being misleading.
> > 
> > Quick says: “This tutorial provides a brief introduction [...]”. Two 
> > newcomers [one a programmer, one not] took that to mean it's an 
> > “introductory tutorial” in the sense of not just “assuming no familiarity”, 
> > but also “some basics to get started”. The two readers misunderstood some 
> > of the material, and how much they should understand the material. Without 
> > talking to me they might have been put off continuing with racket. They 
> > provided feedback about what they had trouble with, but it was based on 
> > them having the impression that Quick was something designed more like the 
> > HtDP2e Prologue.
> > 
> > For the HtDP2e Prologue, the Preface does mention: “Once finished, any 
> > beginner is bound to feel simultaneously empowered and overwhelmed.”. But a 
> > newcomer with a degree in Philosophy missed or didn't retain that, and read 
> > the Prologue even more strongly as “the basics to get started” since it was 
> > in a textbook for beginning programmers. She got very far, but was indeed 
> > overwhelmed. In particular, she read the Exercises as things she should be 
> > able to do as warmups before starting what she assumed was more difficult 
> > “serious” material following the Prologue. When she contacted me, I had to 
> > assure her that the rest of the book covers the material, more slowly, more 
> > completely, in more detail.
> > 
> > Including something about why the links to the documentation are there, and 
> > what to expect when following them, could also help. Following one of those 
> > links at this stage can be even more overwhelming. E.g., Quick's first link 
> > to the documentation is “naturally” [to us] for ‘#lang’ . For the Prologue, 
> > following a 

Re: [racket-users] Readers' understanding of the intent of “Quick: An Introduction [...]” and the HtDP2e “Prologue: [...]”.

[Stephen Dause]

Hi, I'm new here, but I am interested in Racket and HtDP2 and thought I'd 
contribute to the discussion.

I think it's important to recognize that a book is very powerful in that the 
author's message can be duplicated essentially for free but also very limited 
in that in-person, one-on-one communication can do much more to ensure that the 
speaker's message comes across clearly.

Regarding the Exercises, I think by "Exercises", gfb meant the instructions in 
the prologue to run things in Racket.


As for how best to communicate the author's main point in this section -- which 
I understand as something like "with programming, you can make a rocket fly!" 
-- that is tricky because it has a few prerequisites.  I agree that it is much 
better than a simple "Hello world," but I think that "Hello world" is still 
used so often because it is simple.  In that regard -- the very first simple 
step -- evaluating "(+ 1 1)" is equivalent to "Hello world."

This strikes me as an unsolved problem in CS education: the "best" introduction 
to programming.  Many CS instructors are content to use what they have now, and 
we could do with a lot more innovation in this area.  I think the HtDP2 
prologue is superior to many alternatives.  But I also think that it could 
benefit from a lot of "end-user testing" from adults, since adults (16-18 years 
old or older) with some math knowledge are much of the target audience as I 
understand it.  (Alternatively, could we benefit from Bootstrap instructors' 
experience?  My guess is that they have a lot more "end-user testing" than 
HtDP2.)

I have no conclusion on how to improve the prologue, but those are my thoughts.

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Re: [racket-users] Readers' understanding of the intent of “Quick: An Introduction [...]” and the HtDP2e “Prologue: [...]”.

[Matthias Felleisen]

To start with, thank you for pointing out hurdles for “beginners” or “people 
new to Racket.” We listen and we want to improve this material so that everyone 
can design programs (either Racket or BSL). 

Let me speak to HtDP/2e because I am responsible for it. I will let Matthew 
speak to Quick. 

— I do not know how to address your comment about exercises because the 
Prologue does not contain any. There is a link to an exercise way into the 
weeds for exactly the one link that is complicated. 

— I followed many links from the Prologue to the Docs. There is one 
overwhelming link: the one to animate. But given the context, I don’t 
understand why anyone would even want more documentation. The book itself 
spells out what the function does. Yes, in some sense this is complicated 
because functions on functions are nothing that people encounter. My hope is 
that students copy and paste this expression into DrRacket and see a rocket 
fly. Hello world. 

— I really do not expect more than ‘read and copy and play and feel somewhat 
confused.’ That’s why I announce it in the Preface. 

— I also wrap up the Prologue with “You are not a programmer. Let’s get 
started.” 

POSSIBLE ACTIONS: 

— I could try to turn the links off in the Prologue. But I want to get students 
in the mind set — look at the docs — because programmers must learn to look at 
docs. Unless they want to stay Stackoverflow coders. 

— I could try to weave in another warning into the Prologue that this is meant 
to be read quickly in the above spirit. 

— Do you have any other proposals? 








> On Apr 9, 2017, at 2:45 PM, gfb  wrote:
> 
> The short summary of this post is: should/could something be added to clarify 
> the purpose of those materials and reassure newcomers who read them.
> 
> “Quick: An Introduction to Racket with Pictures”, and HtDP2e “Prologue: How 
> to Program”, are both very nice introductions in the sense of “making the 
> reader aware of”. They cover a lot of material, and the careful selection of 
> examples, and the narrative, are informative without being misleading.
> 
> Quick says: “This tutorial provides a brief introduction [...]”. Two 
> newcomers [one a programmer, one not] took that to mean it's an “introductory 
> tutorial” in the sense of not just “assuming no familiarity”, but also “some 
> basics to get started”. The two readers misunderstood some of the material, 
> and how much they should understand the material. Without talking to me they 
> might have been put off continuing with racket. They provided feedback about 
> what they had trouble with, but it was based on them having the impression 
> that Quick was something designed more like the HtDP2e Prologue.
> 
> For the HtDP2e Prologue, the Preface does mention: “Once finished, any 
> beginner is bound to feel simultaneously empowered and overwhelmed.”. But a 
> newcomer with a degree in Philosophy missed or didn't retain that, and read 
> the Prologue even more strongly as “the basics to get started” since it was 
> in a textbook for beginning programmers. She got very far, but was indeed 
> overwhelmed. In particular, she read the Exercises as things she should be 
> able to do as warmups before starting what she assumed was more difficult 
> “serious” material following the Prologue. When she contacted me, I had to 
> assure her that the rest of the book covers the material, more slowly, more 
> completely, in more detail.
> 
> Including something about why the links to the documentation are there, and 
> what to expect when following them, could also help. Following one of those 
> links at this stage can be even more overwhelming. E.g., Quick's first link 
> to the documentation is “naturally” [to us] for ‘#lang’ . For the Prologue, 
> following a link usually provides more explanation than in the Prologue only 
> in the sense of being complete and precise. To the intended audience of the 
> Prologue, that further explanation is written in unexplained technical 
> notation.
> 
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> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
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> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
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[racket-users] Readers' understanding of the intent of “Quick: An Introduction [...]” and the HtDP2e “Prologue: [...]”.

[gfb]

The short summary of this post is: should/could something be added to clarify 
the purpose of those materials and reassure newcomers who read them.

“Quick: An Introduction to Racket with Pictures”, and HtDP2e “Prologue: How to 
Program”, are both very nice introductions in the sense of “making the reader 
aware of”. They cover a lot of material, and the careful selection of examples, 
and the narrative, are informative without being misleading.

Quick says: “This tutorial provides a brief introduction [...]”. Two newcomers 
[one a programmer, one not] took that to mean it's an “introductory tutorial” 
in the sense of not just “assuming no familiarity”, but also “some basics to 
get started”. The two readers misunderstood some of the material, and how much 
they should understand the material. Without talking to me they might have been 
put off continuing with racket. They provided feedback about what they had 
trouble with, but it was based on them having the impression that Quick was 
something designed more like the HtDP2e Prologue.

For the HtDP2e Prologue, the Preface does mention: “Once finished, any beginner 
is bound to feel simultaneously empowered and overwhelmed.”. But a newcomer 
with a degree in Philosophy missed or didn't retain that, and read the Prologue 
even more strongly as “the basics to get started” since it was in a textbook 
for beginning programmers. She got very far, but was indeed overwhelmed. In 
particular, she read the Exercises as things she should be able to do as 
warmups before starting what she assumed was more difficult “serious” material 
following the Prologue. When she contacted me, I had to assure her that the 
rest of the book covers the material, more slowly, more completely, in more 
detail.

Including something about why the links to the documentation are there, and 
what to expect when following them, could also help. Following one of those 
links at this stage can be even more overwhelming. E.g., Quick's first link to 
the documentation is “naturally” [to us] for ‘#lang’ . For the Prologue, 
following a link usually provides more explanation than in the Prologue only in 
the sense of being complete and precise. To the intended audience of the 
Prologue, that further explanation is written in unexplained technical notation.

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