Re: [Radiant] OT: Background colour

2008-11-08 Thread Saša Babić

john wrote:
The Z-Man has it backwards. If the user goes out of their way to set a 
custom background color the site should respect that, the same as with 
user selected fonts and css and whether images are shown and whether 
javascript is enabled and whether Flash and Java are available, etc. 
etc. and so on.


As I understand it, the argument is that if you set the color attribute, 
you should set the background, too. Otherwise, user might pick the 
background to be the same as your color, thus making the content 
unreadable. So, its not only about the appearence. Sure, its a minor 
thing, but I belive there is some merit to it, however small it might 
seem. On the other hand, if Radiant never adopts this way of thinking, 
thats fine, too. It is only a minor thing, after all.

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Re: [Radiant] OT: Background colour

2008-11-08 Thread john
My assertion was that anyone who has gone to the effort of changing  
the browsers background color is well prepared to deal with the mess  
they make if they choose black for instance, i.e. those same people  
are also likely to have user level css applied in addition to deal  
with when this happens. I think this just happens to be one of his pet  
issues.


http://www.zeldman.com/2007/06/18/bgcolor-follies/
http://www.zeldman.com/2008/11/07/is-your-websites-underwear-showing/

On 2008/11/08, at 11:24, Saša Babić wrote:


john wrote:
The Z-Man has it backwards. If the user goes out of their way to  
set a custom background color the site should respect that, the  
same as with user selected fonts and css and whether images are  
shown and whether javascript is enabled and whether Flash and Java  
are available, etc. etc. and so on.


As I understand it, the argument is that if you set the color  
attribute, you should set the background, too. Otherwise, user might  
pick the background to be the same as your color, thus making the  
content unreadable. So, its not only about the appearence. Sure, its  
a minor thing, but I belive there is some merit to it, however small  
it might seem. On the other hand, if Radiant never adopts this way  
of thinking, thats fine, too. It is only a minor thing, after all.

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Re: [Radiant] OT: Background colour

2008-11-08 Thread john

On 2008/11/08, at 12:48, Sean Cribbs wrote:


I shouldn't need to say this, but Patches Are Welcome (tm).


http://github.com/johnmuhl/radiant/tree/valid_css

I guess valider-css might have been a more appropriate name. There  
are still the 3 errors regarding browser specific css but those aren't  
real errors just the validator complaining.


On 8-Nov-08, at 11:35 AM, Mohit Sindhwani wrote:

Actually, I am tempted to agree with Saša on this one - if *you* set  
a foreground color, *you* should set a background color.  A default  
background should not apply if you override the foreground.



Of course you should and as pointed out, by Adam, below if you use a  
validator you'll be immediately notified of your oversight.


On 2008/11/08, at 12:42, Adam van den Hoven wrote:

Its a common validation check (if an annoying one) for CSS  
validators to report a warning if you set a foreground color without  
setting a background color. In general, its best to set both at some  
point. It eliminates ambiguity.


So the real complaint is that authors don't use (or respect)  
validators, and that's a valid one.



A user who specifies there own style sheet (are they any?)


I use global and site specific stylesheets fairly regularly and if I set

html, body { background-color: black !important; color: black ! 
important }


there is nothing an author can do about. If you just set your Firefox  
background color using about:config and don't specifically set the  
text color you're probably not doing it to demonstrate any real life  
user configuration.



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