Re: [RC] Re: The Value of Research & Philosophy
Yeah, I'm with Mike. I don't mean to entirely trash scholasticism, just mostly. :-) -- Ernie P. On Nov 17, 2011, at 1:23 PM, [email protected] wrote: > Metaphysical quackery ? I do get your point. It is entirely valid. > > But... > > The medieval philosophers also gave us the fundamentals of logic & > Whole sets of values issues that would eventually need to be resolved > to good effect even if their solutions were not optimal. Examples include > psychology, the rudiments of sociology eventually developed from those > beginnings by Vico, and the whole field of communications ( language > and its uses, word nuances, techniques for persuasion, and so forth ). > > Yet, I also agree that philosophy has taken a really wrong turn in > rejecting any kind of weltanschauung as a proper subject for philosophy > any more and , instead, mostly now focuses on grammar or close analysis > of propositions or ever more microscopic logical implications. > > Add to the list of great philosophers : > Samuel Clemens, Groucho Marx, Nora Ephron in "Crazy Salad." > > Billy > > -- > > > > 11/17/2011 12:48:21 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, [email protected] > writes: > One could argue that Socrates, Plato, and Aristotle derailed the > atomists, and started the inevitable slide into metaphysical > quackery. For hundreds of years, though, philosophy was chemistry, > math, biology, astronomy, governance, psychology... basically anything > that required contemplation or observation. Pythagoras, Caesar, > Cicero, Galileo, Leibniz, Mach, Jung, and Einstein were all > philosophers. > > -- > Centroids: The Center of the Radical Centrist Community > > Google Group: http://groups.google.com/group/RadicalCentrism > Radical Centrism website and blog: http://RadicalCentrism.org > > > -- > Centroids: The Center of the Radical Centrist Community > > Google Group: http://groups.google.com/group/RadicalCentrism > Radical Centrism website and blog: http://RadicalCentrism.org -- Centroids: The Center of the Radical Centrist Community Google Group: http://groups.google.com/group/RadicalCentrism Radical Centrism website and blog: http://RadicalCentrism.org
[RC] [ RC ] Re: The Value of Research & Philosophy --for Buddhists
Not familiar with that brand, Schick works well for me. Weak attempt at humor intended. Des Cartes, yes, very much needed, but then he left us with a legacy of intellectual dualism that we have been trying to make right ever since. Let's face it, the medievals were lawyers of thought, not always, but far more often than not. Everything must be deductive. Everything must follow from the law codes / religious texts. If you want empirical philosophy in that era you need to turn East. To the Buddhists like Dignaga and Dharmakriti. Also the Hindu Nyaya logicians. And the ever-practical Chinese Confucians / neo-Confucians. Well, not everything is OK and Good and Valuable, but at least there is some actual light in the darkness. If you want some brainfood, let me recommend a 2 volume set : Buddhist Logic by Th. StcherbatskyDover publications / 1962 No idea what the "Th" stands for, it is never spelled out. But he was a Russian scholar / Orientalist. The original ( in Russian ) dates to ca 1930. Far as I know there has never been anything like this set, in all the years since. It is monumental if you have an interest in Asian philosophy for the pre-modern era. Not to be misleading, there decidedly are some of pretty much the same kinds of issues you get with European Christians, but, regardless, a lot of fresh outlooks and helpful logical explorations. Foundational for a lot of later-era Buddhist philosophy. You could also make a case that some of this is "proto-Zen." Shingon starts from different premises, more like Vico, but for another time.. Billy === 11/17/2011 1:40:06 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, [email protected] writes: But medieval philosophy was built on unstable ground- an attempt by Plotinus to merge Aristotle and Plato, and then subsequent attempts by others to merge those with Catholicism. It wasn't until Descartes cleared the deck entirely of the resulting scholasticism (a Frankenstein monster, imo) that we were finally able to begin an empirical study of the world again. It was a necessary destruction that allowed for ingenuity and openness in philosophy again. I don't mean to entirely trash scholasticism, though: I use Occam's razor on a daily basis. -- Centroids: The Center of the Radical Centrist Community Google Group: http://groups.google.com/group/RadicalCentrism Radical Centrism website and blog: http://RadicalCentrism.org -- Centroids: The Center of the Radical Centrist Community Google Group: http://groups.google.com/group/RadicalCentrism Radical Centrism website and blog: http://RadicalCentrism.org
[RC] Re: The Value of Research & Philosophy
But medieval philosophy was built on unstable ground- an attempt by Plotinus to merge Aristotle and Plato, and then subsequent attempts by others to merge those with Catholicism. It wasn't until Descartes cleared the deck entirely of the resulting scholasticism (a Frankenstein monster, imo) that we were finally able to begin an empirical study of the world again. It was a necessary destruction that allowed for ingenuity and openness in philosophy again. I don't mean to entirely trash scholasticism, though: I use Occam's razor on a daily basis. -- Centroids: The Center of the Radical Centrist Community Google Group: http://groups.google.com/group/RadicalCentrism Radical Centrism website and blog: http://RadicalCentrism.org
[RC] Re: The Value of Research & Philosophy
Metaphysical quackery ? I do get your point. It is entirely valid. But... The medieval philosophers also gave us the fundamentals of logic & Whole sets of values issues that would eventually need to be resolved to good effect even if their solutions were not optimal. Examples include psychology, the rudiments of sociology eventually developed from those beginnings by Vico, and the whole field of communications ( language and its uses, word nuances, techniques for persuasion, and so forth ). Yet, I also agree that philosophy has taken a really wrong turn in rejecting any kind of weltanschauung as a proper subject for philosophy any more and , instead, mostly now focuses on grammar or close analysis of propositions or ever more microscopic logical implications. Add to the list of great philosophers : Samuel Clemens, Groucho Marx, Nora Ephron in "Crazy Salad." Billy -- 11/17/2011 12:48:21 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, [email protected] writes: One could argue that Socrates, Plato, and Aristotle derailed the atomists, and started the inevitable slide into metaphysical quackery. For hundreds of years, though, philosophy was chemistry, math, biology, astronomy, governance, psychology... basically anything that required contemplation or observation. Pythagoras, Caesar, Cicero, Galileo, Leibniz, Mach, Jung, and Einstein were all philosophers. -- Centroids: The Center of the Radical Centrist Community Google Group: http://groups.google.com/group/RadicalCentrism Radical Centrism website and blog: http://RadicalCentrism.org -- Centroids: The Center of the Radical Centrist Community Google Group: http://groups.google.com/group/RadicalCentrism Radical Centrism website and blog: http://RadicalCentrism.org
[RC] Re: The Value of Research
I'm with Ernie on this one. Think of it as a mix between a personalized international news feed and a gauge of the world's collective consciousness. -- Centroids: The Center of the Radical Centrist Community Google Group: http://groups.google.com/group/RadicalCentrism Radical Centrism website and blog: http://RadicalCentrism.org
[RC] Re: The Value of Research & Philosophy
One could argue that Socrates, Plato, and Aristotle derailed the atomists, and started the inevitable slide into metaphysical quackery. For hundreds of years, though, philosophy was chemistry, math, biology, astronomy, governance, psychology... basically anything that required contemplation or observation. Pythagoras, Caesar, Cicero, Galileo, Leibniz, Mach, Jung, and Einstein were all philosophers. -- Centroids: The Center of the Radical Centrist Community Google Group: http://groups.google.com/group/RadicalCentrism Radical Centrism website and blog: http://RadicalCentrism.org
