Re: [RC] Catholic Charities programs forced to shut down because of WH social...

2011-12-31 Thread David R. Block
Title: “A society that does not recognize that each individual has
values of
his own which he is entitled to follow can have no respe

  
  
Gridlock can be your friend. 
  
  David
  


  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
“A society that does not recognize that each
individual has
values of his own which he is entitled to follow can have no
respect for the
dignity of the individual and cannot really know freedom.”—Fredrich August von
  Hayek 
 
  


On 12/30/2011 10:46 PM, Chris Hahn wrote:

  
  
  
  
  
The
real question therefore is : 
How do we get to the place where we have
competent
and smart and conscientious legislators who actually come up
with
good
regulations and only good ones, and who get rid of all the
bad ones ?
 
Our system is flawed, and
we need radical change.  The electoral college, the voting
system that we have that virtually locks in the two party
system, and the go-for-the-throat vetting of anyone who is
willing to be a candidate eliminates a LOT of potential
statesman-like leaders.  We are stuck with a subset of
thick-skinned candidates who have to pander to the
republicans or the democrats at the expense of a more open
radical centrist approach.
 
Like you Billy, I don’t
have a realistic answer.  As I have said many times, Ernie’s
Maximum Majority voting system (see http://radicalcentrism.org/resources/) would be a giant leap
forward, but I don’t see us ever adopting this in our
lifetimes.  Therefore we are stuck with  gridlock and
uninspiring leaders.
 
Chris
 

  --
     Christopher P. Hahn, Ph.D. 
       Constructive Agreement, LLC 
     [email protected] 
     P.O. Box 39, Bozeman,
MT  59771
   (406)
  522-4143 (406) 556-7116 fax
  --
   

 

  
From:
[email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
  Of [email protected]
Sent: Friday, December 30, 2011 9:30 PM
To: [email protected]
Cc: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [RC] Catholic Charities programs
forced to shut down because of WH social...
  

 

  
Excellent
point. 
  
  
 
  
  
Since I've
been around longer than you, my memories are different.
  
  
I grew up
with a lot of respect for government. First president  I
have any 
  
  
recollection
of, not much but some, was Truman. Mostly what I know
about him
  
  
has been from
study of history. Actually the same for Eisenhower,
although
  
  
I was in my
teens by then and politics was beginning to make sense.
  
  
 
  
  
Anyway, the
presidents were Truman, Eisenhower, and JFK.  Didn't
really like JBJ
  
  
but I could
respect his competence;
he was no dummy and had some really smart people
  
  
around him.
After that, one crook or incompetent after another.
But I will agree with you
  
  
in principle
about RR's first term. Its not as simple as that, he
did fire Stockman, and
  
  
Stockman knew
what deficit spending would lead to, but, as I said, in
principle.
  
  
The second
term, another matter, which is where I have serious
problems.
  
  
 
  
  
After that ? 
No-one, and Nixon -Ford - Carter were each out of
central casting for
  
  
a Shakespeare
play, fatally flawed in every case.
  
  
 
  
  
OK, point
 

Re: [RC] Catholic Charities programs forced to shut down because of WH social...

2011-12-31 Thread David R. Block
Title: “A society that does not recognize that each individual has
values of
his own which he is entitled to follow can have no respe

  
  
I was born right before
  Eisenhower's second term. Don't remember anything from him, and
  remember mostly the JFK assassination from his stint. Being raised
  by Texas Republicans, I already knew that LBJ was awful. He helped
  make "crookedDemocrat" one word for me, and Edwin W. Edwards of
  Louisiana finished the job. Carter didn't help. 
  
  Then there were the two bums running in the 1980 Louisiana 4th
  district congressional race. Both the Democrat and the Republican
  were convicted of vote buying, but since the Democrat won, he
  apparently bought more (he really did).
  
  David  
  


  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
“A society that does not recognize that each
individual has
values of his own which he is entitled to follow can have no
respect for the
dignity of the individual and cannot really know freedom.”—Fredrich August von
  Hayek 
 
  


On 12/30/2011 10:30 PM, [email protected] wrote:

  
  
  

  Excellent point. 
   
  Since I've been around longer than you, my memories are
different.
  I grew up with a lot of respect for government. First
president  I have any 
  recollection of, not much but some, was Truman. Mostly
what I know about him
  has been from study of history. Actually the same for
Eisenhower, although
  I was in my teens by then and politics was beginning to
make sense.
   
  Anyway, the presidents were Truman, Eisenhower, and JFK. 
Didn't really like JBJ
  but I could respect his competence; he
was no dummy and had some really smart people
  around him. After that, one crook or incompetent after
another. But I will agree with you
  in principle about RR's first term. Its not as simple as
that, he did fire Stockman, and
  Stockman knew what deficit spending would lead to, but,
as I said, in principle.
  The second term, another matter, which is where I have
serious problems.
   
  After that ?  No-one, and Nixon -Ford - Carter were each
out of central casting for
  a Shakespeare play, fatally flawed in every case.
   
  OK, point well made.
   
  The real question therefore is :  How
do we get to the place where we have
  competent and smart and conscientious legislators who
actually come up with
  good regulations and only good ones, and who get rid of
all the bad ones ?
   
  Sorry, but I don't have an answer.
   
  At least it is possible to see the problem in far better
perspective than before.
   
  Billy
   
  -
   
   
   
  12/30/2011 6:27:00 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
  Trouble
is, the last time I think that I've seen anything
approaching good government at the national level is
1981-1984. Since I was in the banana republic of the US,
Louisiana, at the time, I have to qualify my remarks.

I would hope that it would occur more often than that,
but apparently not. 

IMAO. 

David

  
  






  “A
  society that does not recognize that each
  individual has values of his own which he is
  entitled to follow can have no respect for the
  dignity of the individual and cannot really know
  freedom.”—Fredrich August von
Hayek 
   

  
  
  On 12/29/2011 11:48 PM, [email protected] wrote:
  


  
Not how I look at it. My re-wording :
 
More of that Leftist abuse of power.
We need to kick out the Leftists and make
  government regulations sane again.
 
"Government" isn't the enemy, BAD government is
  the 

Re: [RC] Catholic Charities programs forced to shut down because of WH social...

2011-12-30 Thread BILROJ
 

Chris :
Ernie's system is featured in one of the Amendments
but under the title "Instant Runoff" voting
It mentions Ernie and discusses his methodology
 
Billy
 
---
 
 
 
12/30/2011 8:46:21 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, [email protected] writes:

 
The real  question therefore is :  How do we  get to the place where we 
have 
competent and  smart and conscientious legislators who actually come up  
with 
good  regulations and only good ones, and who get rid of all the bad ones  
? 
Our system is  flawed, and we need radical change.  The electoral college, 
the voting  system that we have that virtually locks in the two party 
system, and the  go-for-the-throat vetting of anyone who is willing to be a 
candidate  eliminates a LOT of potential statesman-like leaders.  We are stuck 
with  a subset of thick-skinned candidates who have to pander to the 
republicans or  the democrats at the expense of a more open radical centrist  
approach. 
Like you Billy, I  don’t have a realistic answer.  As I have said many 
times, Ernie’s  Maximum Majority voting system (see 
_http://radicalcentrism.org/resources/_ (http://radicalcentrism.org/resources/) 
) would be a  giant leap 
forward, but I don’t see us ever adopting this in our  lifetimes.  
Therefore we are stuck with  gridlock and uninspiring  leaders. 
Chris 
 
--
Christopher P. Hahn, Ph.D. 
Constructive  Agreement, LLC 
[email protected]_ (mailto:[email protected])  
P.O. Box 39,  Bozeman, MT   59771 
(406)  522-4143 (406) 556-7116  fax
-- 

 
 
From: [email protected]  
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of  [email protected]
Sent: Friday, December 30, 2011 9:30  PM
To: [email protected]
Cc:  [email protected]
Subject: Re: [RC] Catholic Charities programs forced  to shut down because 
of WH social...

 
 
Excellent point.  
 

 
Since I've been around longer  than you, my memories are different.
 
I grew up with a lot of  respect for government. First president  I have 
any  
 
recollection of, not much but  some, was Truman. Mostly what I know about 
him
 
has been from study of history.  Actually the same for Eisenhower, although
 
I was in my teens by then and  politics was beginning to make sense.
 

 
Anyway, the presidents were  Truman, Eisenhower, and JFK.  Didn't really 
like  JBJ
 
but I could respect his  competence; he was no dummy  and had some really 
smart people
 
around him. After that, one  crook or incompetent after another. But I will 
agree with  you
 
in principle about RR's first  term. Its not as simple as that, he did fire 
Stockman,  and
 
Stockman knew what deficit  spending would lead to, but, as I said, in  
principle.
 
The second term, another matter,  which is where I have serious problems.
 


After that ?  No-one,  and Nixon -Ford - Carter were each out of central 
casting  for
 
a Shakespeare play, fatally  flawed in every case.
 

 
OK, point well  made.
 

 
The real question therefore is  :  How do we  get to the place where we have
 
competent and smart and  conscientious legislators who actually come up  
with
 
good regulations and only good  ones, and who get rid of all the bad ones ?
 

 
Sorry, but I don't have an  answer.
 

 
At least it is possible to see  the problem in far better perspective than 
before.
 

 
Billy
 

 
-
 

 

 

 
12/30/2011 6:27:00 P.M. Pacific  Standard Time, [email protected]_ 
(mailto:[email protected])   writes:

Trouble  is, the last time I think that I've seen anything approaching good 
 government at the national level is 1981-1984. Since I was in the banana  
republic of the US, Louisiana, at the time, I have to qualify my  remarks.

I would hope that it would occur more often than that, but  apparently not. 

IMAO. 

David 
 
“A  society that does not recognize that each individual has values of his 
own  which he is entitled to follow can have no respect for the dignity of 
the  individual and cannot really know freedom.”—Fredrich August von Hayek   


On  12/29/2011 11:48 PM, [email protected]_ (mailto:[email protected])  wrote:   
 
 
Not how I look  at it. My re-wording :
 

 
More of that  Leftist abuse of power.
 
We need to kick  out the Leftists and make government regulations sane  
again.
 

 
"Government"  isn't the enemy, BAD government is the enemy.
 

 
Billy
 

 

 

 

 

 

 
12/29/2011  8:47:49 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, [email protected]_ 
(mailto:[email protected])   writes:

More  of that great government regulation.

David  
 
“A  society that does not recognize that each individual has values of his 
own  which he is entitled to follow can have no respect for

Re: [RC] Catholic Charities programs forced to shut down because of WH social...

2011-12-30 Thread Rise of the Center
This is no different than things like requiring schools to not discriminate 
by religion or race if they want to take public funds. There is no right to 
public funds. If they want the money, they follow the rules everyone has to 
follow. If not, they don't get public money.

-- 
Centroids: The Center of the Radical Centrist Community 

Google Group: http://groups.google.com/group/RadicalCentrism
Radical Centrism website and blog: http://RadicalCentrism.org


RE: [RC] Catholic Charities programs forced to shut down because of WH social...

2011-12-30 Thread Chris Hahn
The real question therefore is :  How do we get to the place where we have

competent and smart and conscientious legislators who actually come up with

good regulations and only good ones, and who get rid of all the bad ones ?

 

Our system is flawed, and we need radical change.  The electoral college,
the voting system that we have that virtually locks in the two party system,
and the go-for-the-throat vetting of anyone who is willing to be a candidate
eliminates a LOT of potential statesman-like leaders.  We are stuck with a
subset of thick-skinned candidates who have to pander to the republicans or
the democrats at the expense of a more open radical centrist approach.

 

Like you Billy, I don't have a realistic answer.  As I have said many times,
Ernie's Maximum Majority voting system (see
http://radicalcentrism.org/resources/) would be a giant leap forward, but I
don't see us ever adopting this in our lifetimes.  Therefore we are stuck
with  gridlock and uninspiring leaders.

 

Chris

 

--
   Christopher P. Hahn, Ph.D. 
 Constructive Agreement, LLC 
<mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]

   P.O. Box 39, Bozeman, MT  59771

 (406) 522-4143 (406) 556-7116 fax
--

 

 

From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected]
Sent: Friday, December 30, 2011 9:30 PM
To: [email protected]
Cc: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [RC] Catholic Charities programs forced to shut down because of
WH social...

 

Excellent point. 

 

Since I've been around longer than you, my memories are different.

I grew up with a lot of respect for government. First president  I have any 

recollection of, not much but some, was Truman. Mostly what I know about him

has been from study of history. Actually the same for Eisenhower, although

I was in my teens by then and politics was beginning to make sense.

 

Anyway, the presidents were Truman, Eisenhower, and JFK.  Didn't really like
JBJ

but I could respect his competence; he was no dummy and had some really
smart people

around him. After that, one crook or incompetent after another. But I will
agree with you

in principle about RR's first term. Its not as simple as that, he did fire
Stockman, and

Stockman knew what deficit spending would lead to, but, as I said, in
principle.

The second term, another matter, which is where I have serious problems.

 

After that ?  No-one, and Nixon -Ford - Carter were each out of central
casting for

a Shakespeare play, fatally flawed in every case.

 

OK, point well made.

 

The real question therefore is :  How do we get to the place where we have

competent and smart and conscientious legislators who actually come up with

good regulations and only good ones, and who get rid of all the bad ones ?

 

Sorry, but I don't have an answer.

 

At least it is possible to see the problem in far better perspective than
before.

 

Billy

 

-

 

 

 

12/30/2011 6:27:00 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, [email protected]
writes:

Trouble is, the last time I think that I've seen anything approaching good
government at the national level is 1981-1984. Since I was in the banana
republic of the US, Louisiana, at the time, I have to qualify my remarks.

I would hope that it would occur more often than that, but apparently not. 

IMAO. 

David

"A society that does not recognize that each individual has values of his
own which he is entitled to follow can have no respect for the dignity of
the individual and cannot really know freedom."-Fredrich August von Hayek 

 


On 12/29/2011 11:48 PM, [email protected] wrote: 

Not how I look at it. My re-wording :

 

More of that Leftist abuse of power.

We need to kick out the Leftists and make government regulations sane again.

 

"Government" isn't the enemy, BAD government is the enemy.

 

Billy

 

 



 

 

 

12/29/2011 8:47:49 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, [email protected]
writes:

More of that great government regulation.

David 

"A society that does not recognize that each individual has values of his
own which he is entitled to follow can have no respect for the dignity of
the individual and cannot really know freedom."-Fredrich August von Hayek 

 


On 12/29/2011 2:31 PM, [email protected] wrote: 

 

Bishops Say Rules on Gay Parents Limit Freedom of Religion
Laurie Goodstein ("The New York Times," December 28, 2011)

Roman Catholic bishops in Illinois have shuttered most of the Catholic
Charities affiliates in the state rather than comply with a new requirement
that says they must consider same-sex couples as potential foster-care and
adoptive parents if they want to receive s

Re: [RC] Catholic Charities programs forced to shut down because of WH social...

2011-12-30 Thread BILROJ
 
Excellent point. 
 
Since I've been around longer than you, my memories are different.
I grew up with a lot of respect for government. First president   I have 
any 
recollection of, not much but some, was Truman. Mostly what I know about  
him
has been from study of history. Actually the same for Eisenhower,  although
I was in my teens by then and politics was beginning to make sense.
 
Anyway, the presidents were Truman, Eisenhower, and JFK.  Didn't  really 
like JBJ
but I could respect his competence; he was no dummy  and had some really 
smart people
around him. After that, one crook or incompetent after another. But I  will 
agree with you
in principle about RR's first term. Its not as simple as that, he  did fire 
Stockman, and
Stockman knew what deficit spending would lead to, but, as I said, in  
principle.
The second term, another matter, which is where I have serious  problems.
 
After that ?  No-one, and Nixon -Ford - Carter were each out of  central 
casting for
a Shakespeare play, fatally flawed in every case.
 
OK, point well made.
 
The real question therefore is :  How do we get to  the place where we have
competent and smart and conscientious legislators who actually come up  with
good regulations and only good ones, and who get rid of all the bad ones  ?
 
Sorry, but I don't have an answer.
 
At least it is possible to see the problem in far better perspective than  
before.
 
Billy
 
-
 
 
 
12/30/2011 6:27:00 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, [email protected]  
writes:

Trouble is, the last time I think that I've seen  anything approaching good 
government at the national level is 1981-1984. Since  I was in the banana 
republic of the US, Louisiana, at the time, I have to  qualify my remarks.

I would hope that it would occur more often than  that, but apparently not. 

IMAO. 

David

  _   
 
“A society that does  not recognize that each individual has values of his 
own which he is entitled  to follow can have no respect for the dignity of 
the individual and cannot  really know freedom.”—Fredrich August von Hayek  



On 12/29/2011 11:48  PM, [email protected]_ (mailto:[email protected])  wrote:  
 
Not how I look at it. My re-wording :
 
More of that Leftist abuse of power.
We need to kick out the Leftists and make government regulations sane  
again.
 
"Government" isn't the enemy, BAD government is the enemy.
 
Billy
 
 

 
 
 
12/29/2011 8:47:49 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, [email protected]_ 
(mailto:[email protected])   writes:

More of that great government  regulation.

David 

  _   
 
“A  society that does not recognize that each individual has values of his 
own  which he is entitled to follow can have no respect for the dignity of 
the  individual and cannot really know freedom.”—Fredrich  August von Hayek  



On 12/29/2011 2:31  PM, [email protected]_ (mailto:[email protected])   wrote:  

 
Bishops Say Rules on Gay Parents Limit Freedom  of Religion
Laurie Goodstein ("The New York Times,"  December 28, 2011) 
Roman Catholic bishops in Illinois have shuttered most of the  Catholic 
Charities affiliates in the state rather than comply with a new  requirement 
that says they must consider same-sex couples as potential  foster-care and 
adoptive parents if they want to receive state money.  The charities have 
served for more than 40 years as a major link in the  state’s social service 
network for poor and neglected children. 
The bishops have followed colleagues in Washington, D.C., and  
Massachusetts who had jettisoned their adoption services rather than  comply 
with 
nondiscrimination laws. 
For the nation’s Catholic bishops, the Illinois requirement is a  prime 
example of what they see as an escalating campaign by the  government to 
trample on their religious freedom while expanding the  rights of gay people. 
The 
idea that religious Americans are the victims  of government-backed 
persecution is now a frequent theme not just for  Catholic bishops, but also 
for 
Republican presidential candidates and  conservative evangelicals. 
“In the name of tolerance, we’re not being tolerated,” said Bishop  Thomas 
J. Paprocki of the Diocese of Springfield, Ill., a civil and  canon lawyer 
who helped drive the church’s losing battle to retain its  state contracts 
for foster care and adoption services. 
The Illinois experience indicates that the bishops face formidable  
opponents who also claim to have justice and the Constitution on their  side. 
They 
include not only gay rights advocates, but also many  religious believers 
and churches that support gay equality (some  Catholic legislators among 
them). They frame the issue as a matter of  civil rights, saying that Catholic 
Charities was using taxpayer money to  discriminate against same-sex couples. 
Tim Kee, a teacher in Marion, Ill., who was turned away by Catholic  
Charities three ye

Re: [RC] Catholic Charities programs forced to shut down because of WH social...

2011-12-30 Thread David R. Block
Title: “A society that does not recognize that each individual has
values of
his own which he is entitled to follow can have no respe

  
  
Trouble is, the last time I think
  that I've seen anything approaching good government at the
  national level is 1981-1984. Since I was in the banana republic of
  the US, Louisiana, at the time, I have to qualify my remarks.
  
  I would hope that it would occur more often than that, but
  apparently not. 
  
  IMAO. 
  
  David
  


  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
“A society that does not recognize that each
individual has
values of his own which he is entitled to follow can have no
respect for the
dignity of the individual and cannot really know freedom.”—Fredrich August von
  Hayek 
 
  


On 12/29/2011 11:48 PM, [email protected] wrote:

  
  
  

  Not how I look at it. My re-wording :
   
  More of that Leftist abuse of power.
  We need to kick out the Leftists and make government
regulations sane again.
   
  "Government" isn't the enemy, BAD government is the
enemy.
   
  Billy
   
   
  
   
   
   
  12/29/2011 8:47:49 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
  More
of that great government regulation.

David 

  
  






  “A
  society that does not recognize that each
  individual has values of his own which he is
  entitled to follow can have no respect for the
  dignity of the individual and cannot really know
  freedom.”—Fredrich August von
Hayek 
   

  
  
  On 12/29/2011 2:31 PM, [email protected] wrote:
  


   
  
Bishops Say Rules on Gay
  Parents Limit Freedom of Religion
Laurie Goodstein ("The New York
  Times," December 28, 2011)
Roman Catholic bishops in Illinois have shuttered
  most of the Catholic Charities affiliates in the
  state rather than comply with a new requirement
  that says they must consider same-sex couples as
  potential foster-care and adoptive parents if they
  want to receive state money. The charities have
  served for more than 40 years as a major link in
  the state’s social service network for poor and
  neglected children.
The bishops have followed colleagues in
  Washington, D.C., and Massachusetts who had
  jettisoned their adoption services rather than
  comply with nondiscrimination laws.
For the nation’s Catholic bishops, the Illinois
  requirement is a prime example of what they see as
  an escalating campaign by the government to
  trample on their religious freedom while expanding
  the rights of gay people. The idea that religious
  Americans are the victims of government-backed
  persecution is now a frequent theme not just for
  Catholic bishops, but also for Republican
  presidential candidates and conservative
  evangelicals.
“In the name of tolerance, we’re not being
  tolerated,” said Bishop Thomas J. Paprocki of the
  Diocese of Springfield, Ill., a civil and canon
  lawyer who helped drive the church’s losing battle
  to retain its state contracts for foster care and
  adoption services.
The Illinois experience indicates that the
  bishops face formidable opponents who also claim
  to have justice and the Constitution on their
  side. They include not only gay rights advocates,
  but also many religious believers and churches
  that support gay equality (some Catholic
  legislators among them). They f

Re: [RC] Catholic Charities programs forced to shut down because of WH social...

2011-12-29 Thread BILROJ
 
Not how I look at it. My re-wording :
 
More of that Leftist abuse of power.
We need to kick out the Leftists and make government regulations sane  
again.
 
"Government" isn't the enemy, BAD government is the enemy.
 
Billy
 
 

 
 
 
12/29/2011 8:47:49 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, [email protected]  
writes:

More of that great government  regulation.

David 

  _   
 
“A society that does  not recognize that each individual has values of his 
own which he is entitled  to follow can have no respect for the dignity of 
the individual and cannot  really know freedom.”—Fredrich August von Hayek  



On 12/29/2011 2:31 PM,  [email protected]_ (mailto:[email protected])  wrote:  

 
Bishops Say Rules on Gay Parents Limit Freedom of  Religion
Laurie Goodstein ("The New York Times," December  28, 2011) 
Roman Catholic bishops in Illinois have shuttered most of the Catholic  
Charities affiliates in the state rather than comply with a new requirement  
that says they must consider same-sex couples as potential foster-care and  
adoptive parents if they want to receive state money. The charities have  
served for more than 40 years as a major link in the state’s social service  
network for poor and neglected children. 
The bishops have followed colleagues in Washington, D.C., and  
Massachusetts who had jettisoned their adoption services rather than comply  
with 
nondiscrimination laws. 
For the nation’s Catholic bishops, the Illinois requirement is a prime  
example of what they see as an escalating campaign by the government to  
trample on their religious freedom while expanding the rights of gay people.  
The 
idea that religious Americans are the victims of government-backed  
persecution is now a frequent theme not just for Catholic bishops, but also  
for 
Republican presidential candidates and conservative evangelicals. 
“In the name of tolerance, we’re not being tolerated,” said Bishop Thomas  
J. Paprocki of the Diocese of Springfield, Ill., a civil and canon lawyer  
who helped drive the church’s losing battle to retain its state contracts  
for foster care and adoption services. 
The Illinois experience indicates that the bishops face formidable  
opponents who also claim to have justice and the Constitution on their side.  
They 
include not only gay rights advocates, but also many religious  believers 
and churches that support gay equality (some Catholic legislators  among 
them). They frame the issue as a matter of civil rights, saying that  Catholic 
Charities was using taxpayer money to discriminate against same-sex  couples. 
Tim Kee, a teacher in Marion, Ill., who was turned away by Catholic  
Charities three years ago when he and his longtime partner, Rick Wade, tried  
to 
adopt a child, said: “We’re both Catholic, we love our church, but  Catholic 
Charities closed the door to us. To add insult to injury, my tax  dollars 
went to provide discrimination against me.” 
The bishops are engaged in the religious liberty battle on several  fronts. 
They have asked the Obama administration to lift a new requirement  that 
Catholic and other religiously affiliated hospitals, universities and  charity 
groups cover contraception in their employees’ health plans. A  decision 
has been expected for weeks now. 
At the same time, the bishops are protesting the recent denial of a  
federal contract to provide care for victims of sex trafficking, saying the  
decision was anti-Catholic. An official with the Department of Health and  
Human 
Services recently told a hearing on Capitol Hill that the bishops’  program 
was rejected because it did not provide the survivors of sex  trafficking, 
some of whom are rape victims, with referrals for abortions or  
contraceptives. 
Critics of the church argue that no group has a constitutional right to a  
government contract, especially if it refuses to provide required  services. 
But Anthony R. Picarello Jr., general counsel and associate general  
secretary of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops, disagreed.  
“It’s 
true that the church doesn’t have a First Amendment right to have a  
government contract,” he said, “but it does have a First Amendment right not  
to 
be excluded from a contract based on its religious beliefs.” 
The controversy in Illinois began when the state legislature voted in  
November 2010 to legalize civil unions for same-sex couples, which the  state’s 
Catholic bishops lobbied against. The legislation was titled “The  Illinois 
Religious Freedom Protection and Civil Unions Act,” and Bishop  Paprocki 
said he was given the impression that it would not affect state  contracts for 
Catholic Charities and other religious social services. 
In New York State, religious groups lobbied for specific exemption  
language in the same-sex marriage bill. But bishops in Illinois did not  
negotiate, 
Bishop Paprocki said. 
“It would have been seen as, ‘We’re going to compromise o

Re: [RC] Catholic Charities programs forced to shut down because of WH social policies

2011-12-29 Thread David R. Block
Title: “A society that does not recognize that each individual has
values of
his own which he is entitled to follow can have no respe

  
  
More of that great government
  regulation.
  
  David 
  


  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
“A society that does not recognize that each
individual has
values of his own which he is entitled to follow can have no
respect for the
dignity of the individual and cannot really know freedom.”—Fredrich August von
  Hayek 
 
  


On 12/29/2011 2:31 PM, [email protected] wrote:

  
  
  
 

  Bishops Say Rules on Gay Parents
Limit Freedom of Religion
  Laurie Goodstein ("The New York Times,"
December 28, 2011)
  Roman Catholic bishops in Illinois have shuttered most of
the Catholic Charities affiliates in the state rather than
comply with a new requirement that says they must consider
same-sex couples as potential foster-care and adoptive
parents if they want to receive state money. The charities
have served for more than 40 years as a major link in the
state’s social service network for poor and neglected
children.
  The bishops have followed colleagues in Washington, D.C.,
and Massachusetts who had jettisoned their adoption services
rather than comply with nondiscrimination laws.
  For the nation’s Catholic bishops, the Illinois requirement
is a prime example of what they see as an escalating
campaign by the government to trample on their religious
freedom while expanding the rights of gay people. The idea
that religious Americans are the victims of
government-backed persecution is now a frequent theme not
just for Catholic bishops, but also for Republican
presidential candidates and conservative evangelicals.
  “In the name of tolerance, we’re not being tolerated,” said
Bishop Thomas J. Paprocki of the Diocese of Springfield,
Ill., a civil and canon lawyer who helped drive the church’s
losing battle to retain its state contracts for foster care
and adoption services.
  The Illinois experience indicates that the bishops face
formidable opponents who also claim to have justice and the
Constitution on their side. They include not only gay rights
advocates, but also many religious believers and churches
that support gay equality (some Catholic legislators among
them). They frame the issue as a matter of civil rights,
saying that Catholic Charities was using taxpayer money to
discriminate against same-sex couples.
  Tim Kee, a teacher in Marion, Ill., who was turned away by
Catholic Charities three years ago when he and his longtime
partner, Rick Wade, tried to adopt a child, said: “We’re
both Catholic, we love our church, but Catholic Charities
closed the door to us. To add insult to injury, my tax
dollars went to provide discrimination against me.”
  The bishops are engaged in the religious liberty battle on
several fronts. They have asked the Obama administration to
lift a new requirement that Catholic and other religiously
affiliated hospitals, universities and charity groups cover
contraception in their employees’ health plans. A decision
has been expected for weeks now.
  At the same time, the bishops are protesting the recent
denial of a federal contract to provide care for victims of
sex trafficking, saying the decision was anti-Catholic. An
official with the Department of Health and Human Services
recently told a hearing on Capitol Hill that the bishops’
program was rejected because it did not provide the
survivors of sex trafficking, some of whom are rape victims,
with referrals for abortions or contraceptives.
  Critics of the church argue that no group has a
constitutional right to a government contract, especially if
it refuses to provide required services.
  But Anthony R. Picarello Jr., general counsel and associate
general secretary of the United States Conference of
Catholic Bishops, disagreed. “It’s true that the church
doesn’t have a First Amendment right to have a government
contract,” he said, “but it does have a First Amendment
right not to be excluded from a contract based on its
religious beliefs.”
  The controversy