Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Back off

2010-07-04 Thread cornflakeguy

finally


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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Back off

2010-07-02 Thread snarlydwarf

brucegrr;559249 Wrote: 
> This forum predates Logitech's purchase of Slim Devices by many years.
> (though I assume Logitech owns this forum domain)
> 
> In the old days I am not sure if the "forum" was considered an official
> support forum but the CEO and staff at Slim Devices participated on the
> forum and were very helpful in answering questions and fixing problem.

Back when I bought my first SB2 (which was, what, 2005?) this was not
an official support forum either.  Support was officially handled by
email and phone.  Support staff were not (nor are they now) "required"
to read here, though some may do so if they wish.

It's also a pretty poor method for dealing with support.  There should
be a whole tracking method, tickets, restrictions on offtopicness
("please take your bug to your own bug report instead of cluttering up
others").  Something similar, perhaps, to Bugzilla, but with a more
pleasant UI.

What it can do, if people take a deep breath and remember that This Is
Not An Official Support Forum, is triage things.  Simple problems or
common problems are pretty easy to provide "I do this and it works"
sorts of answers.  Complex problems can be helped as well as long as
people start lookig for the commonalities: the thread somewhere around
here about "my radio turns off" appears to only affect those using MySB
and turning the radio on via a preset.  (Though there is plenty of "ME
TOO!" posts in that thread that do not confirm that trend... but then
they don't deny it, they just clutter it.)

In that case, the forum has done semi-well: it migrated from "radio
randomly turns off" to "radio randomly turns off when it is started
with a preset", which is very good information for Bugzilla.  

It's still not an Official Support Forum, but it can provide a useful
filter for such.

Of course all the "you suck!" posts do absolutely nothing to the mix
except be annoying to other users.  They don't illuminate the problem
and are just noise that actually make it -harder- to help people.

But then, some would rather rant about things than fix them.


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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Back off

2010-07-02 Thread brucegrr

rajm;559244 Wrote: 
> _until_ I got it through my head that this was not an official forum.
> 

This forum predates Logitech's purchase of Slim Devices by many years.
(though I assume Logitech owns this forum domain)

In the old days I am not sure if the "forum" was considered an official
support forum but the CEO and staff at Slim Devices participated on the
forum and were very helpful in answering questions and fixing problem.


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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Back off

2010-07-02 Thread rajm

I've been lurking on and off for about 2 years now.  Don't think I've
ever posted b/c usually I've been able to find the answer I was looking
for in one of the threads.   In any case, in all that time I had no idea
this was NOT an official Logitech forum until reading through this
thread.   I have lots of sympathies for folks upset at the product and
I agreed with Nazgul _until_ I got it through my head that this was not
an official forum.

Perhaps a sticky in each sub-forum explaining this would help?

and out of curiousity, is this a recent change?  I think I started
lurking in early 2008 -- at that point this was the only forum (I see
now that the logitech site has been revamped).

- R


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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Back off

2010-06-23 Thread Muele

mherger;557283 Wrote: 
> Please let's let this thread die now and forever. Nobody is going to win
> a useless battle, neither Junior nor Senior. Thanks.

Sorry I didn't see that.


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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Back off

2010-06-23 Thread Muele

First of all: I didn't bother reading the entire thread. Just a few
pages of it.

But this is how I observe the "senior members" (whatever defines that)
act when someone screams that their SB is a PoS:

They let the poster know that noone at Logitech reads this forum anyway
(except ofcourse the ocasional developer). If they want to let out steam
to Logitech there are better ways.

Then after that, they instictively go into problem solving mode, asking
for details about the issues the OP has. If the OP is then willing to go
into the dialogue, I have seen in more cases than not, that the problem
ends up getting solved. And thus, the OP ends up being a happy (or at
least happier) SB user.

I would rather say that the "senior members" are doing great. Actually
Fantastic. Once in a while there may slip a comment about what
expectations to have that is less friendly than needed. But overall, it
is the "senior members" that carry the forums on their shoulders.

So please don't back off.


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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Back off

2010-06-22 Thread mherger

Please let's let this thread die now and forever. Nobody is going to win
a useless battle, neither Junior nor Senior. Thanks.


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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Back off

2010-06-22 Thread brucegrr

Thanks for the thread reference. The OP implied this was a major
problem. So, is his post the result of one thread or a large number of
threads?

Each of us responds to things differently. Generally, I try to help
those I can. (and my skill set is not anywhere near some of the senior
members on this forum)

I will admit rants bring out the hidden snark in me. :) There have been
a lot of rants in recent months. The forum has decidedly become less
friendly. The noise level is much higher.

Yet, I understand some it. The Radio has been a huge disappointment for
a lot of people. I understand their frustration. 

That said, I lost my patience with posters who couldn't get their radio
to work right and who were demanding Logitech fix the problem. No matter
what they were told they continued to rant. When it was suggested they
used the server software..they went off on any suggestion of
such a thing. Using the server software provided an interim fix until
Logitech fixed the software/firmware/mysb. It was/is good advice. Users
are free to ignore it. But, bashing senior members for giving such
advice and calling them lackey's for Logitech is wrong.

I suspect the answer is for senior members to leave the rants alone.
Let the post count remain 0. Perhaps there needs to be a stricter
enforcement of the inflammatory title rule.


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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Back off

2010-06-22 Thread bluegaspode

brucegrr;557238 Wrote: 
> (whom you refuse to name or give any illustration of your charge)

Bruce - I think Nazgul is talking about the thread starting here:

> http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=77459&page=10
If one looks at it one might find the posting of iPhone a bit offending
(though I'm sure he didn't mean it this way). 
A 'BUT' in capital letters possibly is a bit harsh as a response to a
user who did a first reluctant moan on the forum (even in a nice way
with no cursing and ranting, I mean 
> 
> "Love the Radio's but customer service.not to much." actually is 
> quite nice compared to what we are used :D) .

User diannabill kicks in (actually he seemed to be offended by the
'BUT') and gets answered by an even more unfriendly post (in my
opinion) by pfarrell. 
So much for communication between 'VeryNewUsers' vs 'Senior members'.

Then feelings ran high leading into this thread, not much to analyze
there. When I started posting here I didn't know of this other thread
(and if I did I maybe even agreed to some points of Nazguls first post)
- anyway - I had the endless looping discussions about Radio alarms with
notwired and 0xdeadbeef in my mind.
These were 'NotSoNewUsersButStillEndlessRanting' vs. 'Senior Members'
discussions where I'd still draw the line and don't agree with Nazgul.

To take something constructive from this thread: I think we users that
post quite often should look to write in a more friendly manner to very
new users even if they are ranting. They just don't know better (yet)
and everyone has the right to leave his frustration here (once !).
Also there's nothing wrong in telling everyone what help they can
expect from this forum and where their rantings should be placed (to at
least have a possible small effect on logitech). 

If you look on how erland explains this kind of stuff to users compared
to this particular post by iPhone (as an example) then there are a lot
of shades of grey inbetween. Lets all move a bit to the lighter
places.

I still take the right to put users who repeatedly rant on my ignore
list. Nazgul doesn't belong to this list - given that everyone posted
against him he 'defended' his opinion quite well and calm I think (of
course also changing in the tone depending on how nice people spoke to
him ;) )


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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Back off

2010-06-22 Thread brucegrr

Nazgul;557200 Wrote: 
> Well, I guess I'm done with this, I think I made my point and defended
> it quite well.  For those that took my words to heart I hope that
> things change.  To those that attacked me and childishly put me on
> their ignore lists, you know what I think of you at this point, and I'm
> glad I exposed some of you for the haters you are.  And I think you know
> the pointlessness of ignoring someone when you really don't have to read
> what they write in the first place.
> 
> Never be afraid to be the gadfly if you believe the cause is worth it,
> that is truly what makes a great citizen.
> 
> Peace,
> Nazgul

You live in an interesting world

You post an inflammatory post  directed at those who have donated
countless hours to help users and make the Squeezebox products the
superb products they are today. (radio excluded) :)

You lurk for 4 years and then come out of the closet only to blast some
of the senior members of this forum. (whom you refuse to name or give
any illustration of your charge)

You call us childish when it is you who is acting childish. (reminding
me of one of my grandkids throwing a temper tantrum)

You want the freedom to say whatever you want. You don't want others to
have that same freedom. (regardless of how you explain it, you want
TOTAL free speech but you want senior members to have only "some" free
speech)

You call us haters. Really? You know nothing about any of us and based
on this discussion we are haters? Either you don't know the definition
of hate or you confuse disagreement and churlishness with hate. I don't
know you. Why would I waste my time hating you? In the grand scheme of
life you are like mosquito flying around my head. Irritating, but of no
consequence.

You don't have the first clue as to what makes a great citizen. If you
think your words here make you a great citizen then the comment section
on Youtube (and most other public forums) is overrun with great
citizens.

A great citizen values those who are a part of his collective.
(country, state, Church, forum, etc) You have showed little regard for
"others" in your post and subsequent comments. You lack respect for
other people and you have this idea that there is no value for time and
experience. The poster of  a single comment should be afforded the same
respect as a poster of 6000 comments. Bull s**t. Go try this at work or
any other place for that matter.

You asked us to read your mind as to "what you think of us." I hope you
know no one gives a __.

Bruce


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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Back off

2010-06-22 Thread peterw

brucegrr;557234 Wrote: 
> I asked the original poster:
> 
> Time to put up here..Please give some specific examples of what you
> are complaining about. I am willing to give you the benefit of the
> doubt...Point us to the exact posts that you believe are so offensive.
> This will allow us all to see the context AND who wrote them.

Yeah, I started to write that I thought that was a great suggestion. I
expect the OP doesn't believe that we "senior members" want to help,
but we do. And we'd welcome constructive suggestions like how to gently
tell some frustrated new customer that they won't get satisfaction from
Logitech here, but might in other venues. 

But then the OP posted ever more confrontational messages. (Bullies?
Haters? Really -- "haters"?) Thanks to Phil (yes, OP, I, too, am
ignoring you), I now see that he thinks he's Socrates -- the virtuous
gadfly fighting the ignorant establishment. Ridiculous. 

Thanks to all who suggested the Ignore List -- it's been probably a
decade since I've used anything like a killfile, and I'm really glad to
see vBulletin includes that feature.


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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Back off

2010-06-22 Thread brucegrr

I asked the original poster:

Time to put up here..Please give some specific examples of what you
are complaining about. I am willing to give you the benefit of the
doubt...Point us to the exact posts that you believe are so offensive.
This will allow us all to see the context AND who wrote them.


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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Back off

2010-06-22 Thread Nazgul

You've got to be kidding.  I actually doubted myself for a second and
re-read everything I wrote, pretty dang civil I think for all the
attacks made on me for defending my point.


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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Back off

2010-06-22 Thread Phil Leigh

Nazgul;557200 Wrote: 
> Well, I guess I'm done with this, I think I made my point and defended
> it quite well.  For those that took my words to heart I hope that
> things change.  To those that attacked me and childishly put me on
> their ignore lists, you know what I think of you at this point, and I'm
> glad I exposed some of you for the haters you are.  And I think you know
> the pointlessness of ignoring someone when you really don't have to read
> what they write in the first place.
> 
> Never be afraid to be the gadfly if you believe the cause is worth it,
> that is truly what makes a great citizen.
> 
> Peace,
> Nazgul

The only person who has actually resorted to personal insults and
childish behaviour in this thread is you. I hope you are pleased with
your performance. We've (mostly) tried to engage you in an adult
debate, but it hasn't worked out.

Life goes on.


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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Back off

2010-06-22 Thread Nazgul

Well, I guess I'm done with this, I think I made my point and defended
it quite well.  For those that took my words to heart I hope that
things change.  To those that attacked me and childishly put me on
their ignore lists, you know what I think of you at this point, and I'm
glad I exposed some of you for the haters you are.  And I think you know
the pointlessness of ignoring someone when you really don't have to read
what they write in the first place.

Never be afraid to be the gadfly if you believe the cause is worth it,
that is truly what makes a great citizen.

Peace,
Nazgul


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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Back off

2010-06-22 Thread maggior

Very effective indeed.  Ahhh.


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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Back off

2010-06-22 Thread Soulkeeper

maggior;557160 Wrote: 
> Please make it STOP!!!

Huh? Make what stop? 

Come to think of it, I'm not sure I want to know. But if some user is
bothering you, you can always ignore him/her. The instructions on how
to do it are to be found earlier in this thread. :) I assure you, it is
very effective.


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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Back off

2010-06-22 Thread maggior

Nazgul;557143 Wrote: 
> And fantastically that's led to all these attacks and claims that I'm a
> troll.  I hope that makes sense to someone here.

Nothing fanstatic about it at all...makes 100% sense to me.

Please make it STOP!!!


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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Back off

2010-06-22 Thread Nazgul

funkstar;557134 Wrote: 
> So lets be clear, you are also contradicting what you are trying to
> argue in this thread then?
> 
> If "all opinions are valid and worthy" then so are those of the "senior
> users" that you disagree with. 
> 
> This thread is redundant*
> 
> 
> 
> *also a valid and worthy contribution by another senior user that has
> been sitting on the sidelines of this thread until now.
I addressed that earlier and I think the reasoning is valid.
Nazgul;556422 Wrote: 
> And let me be specific lest I be accused of hypocrisy: it is wrong
> unless it is in support of the basic function of this FORUM--to
> communicate.  Promoting forum communication is in itself of worth and
> not the doctor proving himself in need of medication.


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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Back off

2010-06-22 Thread Nazgul

Hands firmly over ears.  Too funny.


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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Back off

2010-06-22 Thread funkstar

Nazgul;557089 Wrote: 
> This is a public forum and all opinions are valid and worthy of the disk
> space they take up.
So lets be clear, you are also contradicting what you are trying to
argue in this thread then?

If "all opinions are valid and worthy" then so are those of the "senior
users" that you disagree with. 

This thread is redundant*



*also a valid and worthy contribution by another senior user that has
been sitting on the sidelines of this thread until now.


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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Back off

2010-06-22 Thread iPhone

tcutting;557095 Wrote: 
> That's OK... the whole "ignore" thing for me was actually anonymously
> unsolicited as I haven't been actively participating in this thread...
> but as posted in another thread, my sanity is already improving by
> seeing certain posts hidden by the line "This user is on your Ignore
> List."
> 
> Thank you, even for breaking the rules!

Your welcome. As almost always, just trying to help. Enjoy.


-- 
iPhone

*iPhone*   
Media Room:
Transporter, VTL TL-6.5 Signature Pre-Amp, Ayre MX-R Mono's, VeraStarr
6.4SE 6-channel Amp, Vandersteen Speakers: Quatro Mains, VCC-5
Reference Center, four VSM-1 Signatures, Video: Runco RS 900 CineWide
AutoScope 2.35:1   

Living Room:
Duet, ADCOM GTP-870HD, Cinepro 3K6SE III Gold, Vandersteen Model 3A
Signature, Two 2Wq subs, VCC-2, Two VSM-1  

Kitchen: Squeezebox BOOM
Bedroom: Second Boom
Bathroom: Squeezebox Radio
Ford Thunderbird: Duet, Mac Mini
Ford Expedition: SB Touch, USB drive

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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Back off

2010-06-22 Thread brucegrr

tcutting;557095 Wrote: 
> That's OK... the whole "ignore" thing for me was actually anonymously
> unsolicited as I haven't been actively participating in this thread...
> but as posted in another thread, my sanity is already improving by
> seeing certain posts hidden by the line "This user is on your Ignore
> List."
> 
> Thank you, even for breaking the rules!

I just used the ignore list for the first time. It works! Makes for
this discussion to seem like we are talking to ourselves..but apart
from that, great feature.  :)


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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Back off

2010-06-22 Thread tcutting

iPhone;557078 Wrote: 
> I didn't get the "New" Forum Rules. Guess it didn't get sent out to
> Senior Forum Members. And thanks for the heads up but didn't you
> *-Just-* violate the New Rule #1 by telling me about the new rule?
> 
> One of those endless code loops ;=}

That's OK... the whole "ignore" thing for me was actually anonymously
unsolicited as I haven't been actively participating in this thread...
but as posted in another thread, my sanity is already improving by
seeing certain posts hidden by the line "This user is on your Ignore
List."

Thank you, even for breaking the rules!


-- 
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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Back off

2010-06-22 Thread Nazgul

Phil Leigh;557065 Wrote: 
> Now I'm replying to you.
> 
> This "service" of which you speak - what is it exactly? Nothing appears
> to have changed...
> 
> People still come here for help and where possible they get it.
> People still come here with issues that can't be addressed via the
> forum community and get directed to the official support channels.
> People still come here to vent.
> 
> Apparently you've been coming here for over 4 years for reasons that
> you haven't yet explained - I can only presume you never had a problem
> or were able to find whatever information you were seeking without
> needing to post (in which case, great!).
> 
> What I don't understand is... Why now? What has precipitated this
> sudden change on your part?
The service is awareness.  I've seen many people, again and again, ask
the "senior users" to stop trying to control the discussions. 
Incredible as it may seem, some of those "senior users" never got the
point. Now, maybe, just maybe, they understand.  And also those people
who asked them to stop now know that they have support in their
entreaties.  

Understand, and apparently I need to reiterate this, the helpful posts
are appreciated and truly valuable, I've never once said that the
helpful posts are a problem, though some of the other posters wanted to
attribute that meaning to my words.  I simply want the bullying and
silencing of valid opinions to stop.  This is a public forum and all
opinions are valid and worthy of the disk space they take up.

If you guys want to ignore my posts because I want more civility here
and can logically and effectively discuss my opinion, then your loss. 
It shows your true character I think.  I've said nothing uncivil or out
of line and I've stuck to my topic through all the personal attacks. 
Well, there was that thing about spending too much time on the forums,
but we all know that's true.  And the title of this thread, but that
was meant to grab attention, and worked very nicely I think.

What reason do I need to come here that needs explained?  I'm a SBR
owner and I use it daily, and I'll mention that I use it with
Squeezebox server since that seems to be some random badge of
importance to some of you.  I've followed Slim Devices for years
because I'm a home theater owner and software developer and I have an
interest in their work.

What prompted me into action was reading yet another post where someone
rudely told the original poster that what they said didn't belong here,
and frankly I was fed up.  And here you see the results, a mostly civil
discussion about the issue.  The uncivil parts I can attribute to the
people who are the problem, and frankly I'm not surprised.  When the
bullies get told to stop of course they fight back, and then put their
hands over their ears.  It's typical and expected.


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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Back off

2010-06-22 Thread iPhone

Phil Leigh;557071 Wrote: 
> iPhone - you have just violated (new) Forum Rule #1 - never offer
> unsolicited help to another member. 
> 
> Anyway, thanks for tip... :-)

I didn't get the "New" Forum Rules. Guess it didn't get sent out to
Senior Forum Members. And thanks for the heads up but didn't you
*-Just-* violate the New Rule #1 by telling me about the new rule?

One of those endless code loops ;=}


-- 
iPhone

*iPhone*   
Media Room:
Transporter, VTL TL-6.5 Signature Pre-Amp, Ayre MX-R Mono's, VeraStarr
6.4SE 6-channel Amp, Vandersteen Speakers: Quatro Mains, VCC-5
Reference Center, four VSM-1 Signatures, Video: Runco RS 900 CineWide
AutoScope 2.35:1   

Living Room:
Duet, ADCOM GTP-870HD, Cinepro 3K6SE III Gold, Vandersteen Model 3A
Signature, Two 2Wq subs, VCC-2, Two VSM-1  

Kitchen: Squeezebox BOOM
Bedroom: Second Boom
Bathroom: Squeezebox Radio
Ford Thunderbird: Duet, Mac Mini
Ford Expedition: SB Touch, USB drive

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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Back off

2010-06-22 Thread aubuti

iPhone;557072 Wrote: 
> Somebody using it might know more how it actually works.
see http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=79851


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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Back off

2010-06-22 Thread Soulkeeper

It does show the post, but the only text you'll see is:

> This message is hidden because (name of troll) is on your ignore list.


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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Back off

2010-06-22 Thread Phil Leigh

iPhone;557072 Wrote: 
> By everything do you mean the Forum, no it doesn't.
> 
> I don't use it, but one would think that it would act as a filter and
> just not show the posts in threads of a Forum Member that is in 'your'
> ignore list. So I would think one would see a whole in the tread
> sequence numbers if anybody in 'your' ignore list is in the thread.
> 
> Somebody using it might know more how it actually works.

I think I'm about to find out...


-- 
Phil Leigh

You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it
ain't what you'd call minimal...
Touch(wired/XP) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF
Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x
LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue
Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker & Chord Interconnect cables
Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio

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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Back off

2010-06-22 Thread Phil Leigh

iPhone;557063 Wrote: 
> Phil, Its easy to add a Troll to the Ignore List. Goto User Control
> Panel, scroll down to Edit Ignore List, click, add Troll to the list,
> save, then enjoy the lack of Forum Noise.

iPhone - you have just violated (new) Forum Rule #1 - never offer
unsolicited help to another member. 

Anyway, thanks for tip... :-)


-- 
Phil Leigh

You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it
ain't what you'd call minimal...
Touch(wired/XP) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF
Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x
LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue
Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker & Chord Interconnect cables
Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio

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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Back off

2010-06-22 Thread iPhone

brucegrr;557066 Wrote: 
> Does this block them from everything then?

By everything do you mean the Forum, no it doesn't.

I don't use it, but one would think that it would act as a filter and
just not show the posts in threads of a Forum Member that is in 'your'
ignore list. So I would think one would see a whole in the tread
sequence numbers if anybody in 'your' ignore list is in the thread.

Somebody using it might know more how it actually works.


-- 
iPhone

*iPhone*   
Media Room:
Transporter, VTL TL-6.5 Signature Pre-Amp, Ayre MX-R Mono's, VeraStarr
6.4SE 6-channel Amp, Vandersteen Speakers: Quatro Mains, VCC-5
Reference Center, four VSM-1 Signatures, Video: Runco RS 900 CineWide
AutoScope 2.35:1   

Living Room:
Duet, ADCOM GTP-870HD, Cinepro 3K6SE III Gold, Vandersteen Model 3A
Signature, Two 2Wq subs, VCC-2, Two VSM-1  

Kitchen: Squeezebox BOOM
Bedroom: Second Boom
Bathroom: Squeezebox Radio
Ford Thunderbird: Duet, Mac Mini
Ford Expedition: SB Touch, USB drive

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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Back off

2010-06-22 Thread Phil Leigh

Nazgul;557050 Wrote: 
> You're a genius if you completely remove what I've been saying from the
> context in which it was delivered.  And I would bet there are some
> folks here that would argue that I have done more of a service to this
> forum than a boatload of technical posts.  It's also interesting that
> most of you annoying silencers have outed yourselves, given examples,
> and proven my point all in the name of attacking this issue.  Thank you
> for that.

Now I'm replying to you.

This "service" of which you speak - what is it exactly? Nothing appears
to have changed...

People still come here for help and where possible they get it.
People still come here with issues that can't be addressed via the
forum community and get directed to the official support channels.
People still come here to vent.

Apparently you've been coming here for over 4 years for reasons that
you haven't yet explained - I can only presume you never had a problem
or were able to find whatever information you were seeking without
needing to post (in which case, great!).

What I don't understand is... Why now? What has precipitated this
sudden change on your part?


-- 
Phil Leigh

You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it
ain't what you'd call minimal...
Touch(wired/XP) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF
Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x
LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue
Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker & Chord Interconnect cables
Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio

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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Back off

2010-06-22 Thread brucegrr

iPhone;557063 Wrote: 
> Phil, Its easy to add a Troll to the Ignore List. Goto User Control
> Panel, scroll down to Edit Ignore List, click, add Troll to the list,
> save, then enjoy the lack of Forum Noise.

Does this block them from everything then?


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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Back off

2010-06-22 Thread iPhone

Phil Leigh;557057 Wrote: 
> I haven't figured out how to do that yet - I've never needed to until
> now...
> Anyway, I wasn't replying to you.

Phil, Its easy to add a Troll to the Ignore List. Goto User Control
Panel, scroll down to Edit Ignore List, click, add Troll to the list,
save, then enjoy the lack of Forum Noise.


-- 
iPhone

*iPhone*   
Media Room:
Transporter, VTL TL-6.5 Signature Pre-Amp, Ayre MX-R Mono's, VeraStarr
6.4SE 6-channel Amp, Vandersteen Speakers: Quatro Mains, VCC-5
Reference Center, four VSM-1 Signatures, Video: Runco RS 900 CineWide
AutoScope 2.35:1   

Living Room:
Duet, ADCOM GTP-870HD, Cinepro 3K6SE III Gold, Vandersteen Model 3A
Signature, Two 2Wq subs, VCC-2, Two VSM-1  

Kitchen: Squeezebox BOOM
Bedroom: Second Boom
Bathroom: Squeezebox Radio
Ford Thunderbird: Duet, Mac Mini
Ford Expedition: SB Touch, USB drive

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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Back off

2010-06-22 Thread brucegrr

Phil Leigh;557057 Wrote: 
> I haven't figured out how to do that yet - I've never needed to until
> now...
> Anyway, I wasn't replying to you.

Same here.I have never used the ignore function so I am not even sure
how it works.

All I know is that the Squeezebox forum is becoming a place that I no
longer enjoy visiting. Far too often it reminds me of a Youtube comment
thread. 

I have been able to help some people when they had problems. Bigger
still this forum has been a great technical education for me. (that I
didn't have to pay a dime for) It is sad to see it deteriorate into
just another forum, no different from all the rest.


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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Back off

2010-06-22 Thread Phil Leigh

Nazgul;556995 Wrote: 
> I thought I was on your ignore list?  And again Phil, this is not your
> forum and it's not a private forum, it's a public forum for a consumer
> product.  You are not "them".  "Them" is all of the old users and the
> new users who deserve to be able to say what they'd like about the
> product they bought without being told to pipe down.

I haven't figured out how to do that yet - I've never needed to until
now...
Anyway, I wasn't replying to you.


-- 
Phil Leigh

You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it
ain't what you'd call minimal...
Touch(wired/XP) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF
Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x
LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue
Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker & Chord Interconnect cables
Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio

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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Back off

2010-06-22 Thread Nazgul

brucegrr;557041 Wrote: 
> Really?Yea, really.


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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Back off

2010-06-22 Thread Nazgul

garym;557049 Wrote: 
> The "senior members" being accused of bad behavior have hundreds of
> posts helping complete strangers resolve issues with their squeezeboxes
> (with quite a success rate it appears). Nazgul doesn't have a single
> post assisting another user; it appears that 100% of his posts have
> been merely to complain. A community thrives on the former and shrivels
> and dies on the latter. Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, I rest my
> case.
You're a genius if you completely remove what I've been saying from the
context in which it was delivered.  And I would bet there are some folks
here that would argue that I have done more of a service to this forum
than a boatload of technical posts.  It's also interesting that most of
you annoying silencers have outed yourselves, given examples, and proven
my point all in the name of attacking this issue.  Thank you for that.


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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Back off

2010-06-22 Thread garym

The "senior members" being accused of bad behavior have hundreds of
posts helping complete strangers resolve issues with their squeezeboxes
(with quite a success rate it appears). Nazgul doesn't have a single
post assisting another user; it appears that 100% of his posts have
been merely to complain. A community thrives on the former and shrivels
and dies on the latter. Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, I rest my
case.


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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Back off

2010-06-22 Thread brucegrr

Nazgul;556985 Wrote: 
> Wow, you guys are a treat, nothing like attacking the messenger.  This
> is a fine example of what I would like to see stop, and I think almost
> all of you are represented.  Bravo!

Glad we could help you with your Squeezebox related problem. :)

The Backoff problem you are having was posted as a bug. I understand it
will get all the attention it deserves.


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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Back off

2010-06-22 Thread Fluffdaddy

Thank you..Nazgul 

All you said needed to be said.


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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Back off

2010-06-22 Thread Soulkeeper

*Plonk*


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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Back off

2010-06-22 Thread Nazgul

garym;556986 Wrote: 
> It's called having a sense of humor. The actual point of this thread was
> over 30 posts ago. You made your point, others made theirs. Free speech
> is a good thing.  But now its time to move on to actually helping users
> in the community with potentially solvable problems rather than
> continuing to debate how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.

I guess the thread will die when people stop discussing it, not when
your personal threshold is reached.  Again, not-your-forum.  There was
an entire page posted since my last reply, most of it attacking me
personally.  So who's the troll?


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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Back off

2010-06-22 Thread Nazgul

Phil Leigh;556752 Wrote: 
> This post is informative...
> 
> http://forums.slimdevices.com/showpost.php?p=556362&postcount=101
> 
> 4 years is a long time to lurk amongst the community. Not that I have
> anything against lurking (I do it myself on a small number of other
> forums) - but then again I wouldn't dream of then joining them JUST to
> tell them how they should be run. 
> 
> Maybe "Nazgul" is a new name for an old friend :-)
I thought I was on your ignore list?  And again Phil, this is not your
forum and it's not a private forum, it's a public forum for a consumer
product.  You are not "them".  "Them" is all of the old users and the
new users who deserve to be able to say what they'd like about the
product they bought without being told to pipe down.


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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Back off

2010-06-22 Thread garym

Nazgul;556985 Wrote: 
> Wow, you guys are a treat, nothing like attacking the messenger.  This
> is a fine example of what I would like to see stop, and I think almost
> all of you are represented.  Bravo!

It's called having a sense of humor. The actual point of this thread
was over 30 posts ago. You made your point, others made theirs. Free
speech is a good thing.  But now its time to move on to actually
helping users in the community with potentially solvable problems
rather than continuing to debate how many angels can dance on the head
of a pin.


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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Back off

2010-06-22 Thread Nazgul

Wow, you guys are a treat, nothing like attacking the messenger.  This
is a fine example of what I would like to see stop, and I think almost
all of you are represented.  Bravo!


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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Back off

2010-06-21 Thread garym

Phil Leigh;556759 Wrote: 
> Hmmm... Nazgul, Trolls Balrog anyone?

Oh boy, I wasn't even thinking about that.  Ok, what better than this
to signal that the end of this thread is near. (and by the way, loved
the books/movies...)

"The Nazgûl, also known by many other names, were evil servants of
Sauron in Middle-earth."


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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Back off

2010-06-21 Thread Phil Leigh

Hmmm... Nazgul, Trolls Balrog anyone?


-- 
Phil Leigh

You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it
ain't what you'd call minimal...
Touch(wired/XP) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF
Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x
LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue
Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker & Chord Interconnect cables
Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio

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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Back off

2010-06-21 Thread brucegrr

Phil Leigh;556752 Wrote: 
> This post is informative...
> 
> http://forums.slimdevices.com/showpost.php?p=556362&postcount=101
> 
> 4 years is a long time to lurk amongst the community. Not that I have
> anything against lurking (I do it myself on a small number of other
> forums) - but then again I wouldn't dream of then joining them JUST to
> tell them how they should be run. 
> 
> Maybe "Nazgul" is a new name for an old friend :-)

This could morph into a sociologial discussion about modern culture and
the increasing lack of respect for age. (whether physical age or length
of time/number of posts on a forum)


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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Back off

2010-06-21 Thread garym

I'm post #36 I believe. That's about 35 replies too many to the original
post. Obviously, I can't help myself either (tried for a day), but the
old internet discussion board adage of "don't feed the trolls" is
particularly appropriate here.


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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Back off

2010-06-21 Thread Phil Leigh

This post is informative...

http://forums.slimdevices.com/showpost.php?p=556362&postcount=101

4 years is a long time to lurk amongst the community. Not that I have
anything against lurking (I do it myself on a small number of other
forums) - but then again I wouldn't dream of then joining them JUST to
tell them how they should be run. 

Maybe "Nazgul" is a new name for an old friend :-)


-- 
Phil Leigh

You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it
ain't what you'd call minimal...
Touch(wired/XP) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF
Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x
LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue
Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker & Chord Interconnect cables
Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio

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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Back off

2010-06-21 Thread erland

Nazgul;556672 Wrote: 
> Are you all so proud that you can't simply not tell people to stop
> posting without ending your helpful posts as well? 
> 
Besides that you don't seem to really listen to what people say in this
thread, I'm not quite sure I understand what you are trying to say.

As I understand it, you don't want us to try help users unless we can
help them ourselves, specifically you definitely don't want us to
direct them to another place where someone actually might be able to
help them ? You would prefer that these users stay here ranting and
complaining and instead of going somewhere else where they might get
helped and can get happy again ?

Personally I consider it to be helpful to direct people to the official
support if I know I can't help them myself, but that's just me. I hadn't
realized that there are people that prefer to be unhappy instead of
getting their problem solved or getting the device returned/replaced if
they aren't happy with it.

So basically, you want us to only help people that we can help
ourselves and let all other posts be unanswered and not even try to
inform those users that they might be able to get help by the official
Logitech support ?

Is that it ?


-- 
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Erland Isaksson
'My homepage' (http://erland.isaksson.info) (Install my plugins through
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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Back off

2010-06-21 Thread kdf
>
> Nazgul;556422 Wrote:
>  Trying to shut people up on a forum is wrong.

And how is what you are suggesting different in any way?  You are correct,
it's a forum.  How annoying that it has more than just one side.

Do not fear, however, plenty of 'seniors' have already gone away rather
than continue to be abused with sweeping general statements.

-kdf

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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Back off

2010-06-21 Thread brucegrr

Nazgul;556422 Wrote: 
> I'm not saying the senior people should vanish, I'm saying that the
> folks who tell other people that their comments have no place here need
> to stop.  This is a FORUM.  It is for discussion by definition, positive
> and negative.  Trying to shut people up on a forum is wrong.  
> 
> And let me be specific lest I be accused of hypocrisy: it is wrong
> unless it is in support of the basic function of this FORUM--to
> communicate.  Promoting forum communication is in itself of worth and
> not the doctor proving himself in need of medication.

Time to put up here..Please give some specific examples of what you
are complaining about. I am willing to give you the benefit of the
doubt...Point us to the exact posts that you believe are so offensive.
This will allow us all to see the context AND who wrote them.

I have found, in most cases, that attempts to cut off the Logitech
bashing, venting and general bitc*ing generally occur after the
question has been posted and answered. Granted, when posters start off
like you did here with a rant it is hard to to constructive and I, for
one, find it a lot easier to just say __.

So, please post some specific examples. I would like to look at them,
in context.

Thanks.

Bruce


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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Back off

2010-06-21 Thread brucegrr

0xdeadbeef;556534 Wrote: 
> The problem is not the constructiveness (or lack thereof) of posts which
> deal with problems of the Radio, but the fact that the same few
> "seniors" hijack every such thread and destroy it by uttering the same
> non-helpful stuff. And every time they are told how pointless it is to
> put the blame on the customers or tell someone who wants to use MYSB to
> use a server instead, they claim that this was not a valid wish and you
> should go somewhere else if you don't think that their futile "help"
> was no helpful at all. 
> Now how constructive is this?

On one hard your are correct

That said..with the Radio problems people continued to complain and
vent over problems that were NOT fixable. (at the time) This was
repeated over, and over, and over again.
Until Logitech fixed the software/firmware/mysb the problem (s) were
NOT going to be resolved.

BUT...one thing would fix the problems in the interim. RUN the
server software. Instead of accepting this as an interim fox some
posters continued to rant and rave about the Radio.(and to no good
end)

Rant and rave...BUT if you want to use your Radio run the server
software. Yes, it sucks. No it ain't fair. Yes, Logitech even screwed
you. What a da*n mess they made. BUT if you want to use your Radio run
the server software.

Bruce


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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Back off

2010-06-21 Thread brucegrr

I am of the opinion that constructive requests for help have always been
welcome here. ALWAYS.

What is not welcome is the constant bitch*ng, moaning, groaning, and
Logitech bashing that goes on when someone has a problem, thinks they
have a problem, or is just plain frustrated and is looking for SOMEONE
to blame.

Such posting in counterproductive, quite irritating, and quite frankly
has made these forums much less friendly and enjoyable than they used
to be. (yes I am one of those old senior members pining for the good
old days)

If people want to bit*h about and attack Logitech I suggest they wander
over to the official Logitech forum  and ply their words. I bet they
will find a friendly, loving, caring environment. :)

And to the "back off" request? Not a chance. These forums are still
worth fighting for. If the bitche*s and complainers win it will result
in running off those who can help the most when there are problems with
Squeezebox products. I, for one, don't want to see that happen.

Bruce


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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Back off

2010-06-21 Thread Siduhe

I've kind of expressed my thoughts on another thread but as someone who
may be considered a "senior member" here is my 0.02.

Ranting, venting, expressing frustration with Logitech or the
Squeezebox line of products is to be expected on this or any other
related product forum.  I personally dislike it when someone chooses to
express that frustration through the medium of swearing (if you wouldn't
say it to my face as part of a casual conversation with a stranger,
please don't say it to me online) but beyond that, vent away to your
heart's content.  

What I personally find more of an issue at the moment is: 

a) there is a bit of a trend of genuine requests for help being
hijacked and turned into an anti-Logitech venting thread.  I do get
that some people are very frustrated at the current situation and there
are plainly issues that need to be resolved, but when people are trying
to suggest workarounds or possible solutions for an immediate problem,
it doesn't help either the original poster asking for help or the
person who's trying to provide help to post stuff along the lines of
"oh you'll be lucky, this POS product doesn't work and Logitech doesn't
f'n care".  What's more it does make me stop engaging in the thread and
the boards - I deal with enough stress and antagonism in my day to day
life that I really don't need to seek it out in my free time; 

b) calling me a "fan-boy" for Logitech. First, I'm not a boy - the
avatar is a solid indication of that! Second I'm as critical as anyone
of some of the design decisions that have been made with recent
products.  But where those decisions are made, I'm trying to work
within them at the moment whilst lobbying for changes where I can. 
That doesn't make me or anyone else a fan boy, it makes me a realist.

c) saying "this product just doesn't work" (Radio or Touch).  Actually,
the product doesn't work for you right now and that's a serious issue
worthy of significant time and attention by the people who can put it
right (Logitech, not this community). I have a Radio and a Touch and
both work solidly for me when connected to MySB or a local instance of
the server software (I don't run TinySBS) including alarms, internet
radio and local playback and I'm happy to spend my time trying to
suggest solutions to help people get to the same place.

I don't think anyone is seriously suggesting this forum should only be
used for positive posts - or that people shouldn't raise their issues
with the product line. But we seem to be accepting "the squeaky wheel
gets the grease" as a default mode rather than "you'll catch more flies
with honey than with vinegar". 

That said, we've been here before - anyone remember the "can we not
have inflammatory titles thread"?  I guess the difference is that Slim
Devices/Logitech used to engage on these forums then.  Now they don't,
there's perversely much less incentive for people to put across their
issues in a reasoned way or at least semi-polite way...


-- 
Siduhe

Who am I on 'LAST.FM' (http://www.last.fm/user/siduhe)?
"-Siduhe Loved Tracks radio got the thumbs up. Feedback included: yeah,
it's good... got the odd dodgy track tho...-" (c) 'ModelCitizen'
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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Back off

2010-06-21 Thread JonWill

As someone who has benefitted from the advice from this forum, and a
relatively new user, can I add my tuppenceworth?

I can see both sides of this debate - there does seem to be a lot of
negative hyperbole about products.  However, I do believe that it is
useful for some of this infomration to be out there.  I am currently
debating (internally) whether or not to by a radio as an alarm - the
"debate" on these forums has helped me realise that this may not be
unproblematic, but that my use of SBS on an NAS may negate the issues
... that is probably enought to enhance my buying decision.  And I can
now safely ignore the rest of the debate (although I am waiting for the
"It's Fixed!" thread that is far less likely to be posted by disgruntled
users when they are finally listend too).

On the other hand, more positive posting about what does work should be
encouraged ... 

As other users have said, some of the "complainers" do not take advice,
and that is their perogative.  As a product matures, users become
consumers who expect stuff to work out of the box.  Those of us who
like fiddling should be able to co-exist with those who expect things
to work, and have never fiddled with a server.  The two approaches may
never see eye to eye, and perhaps, once a "complainer" has rejected
help once, it might be easier for all on the forum if both sides
disengaged ...

(But can I say that I value all of the debate on this forum!)

Jon


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JonWill

SB Classic, Musical Fidlity A1, Mission 733i speakers 
SB Boom, Logitech Z4 subwoofer
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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Back off

2010-06-21 Thread Nazgul

Are you all so proud that you can't simply not tell people to stop
posting without ending your helpful posts as well?  That's kind of sad
really, and I guess it shows the true nature of your "help": it comes
with the condition that you be allowed to mistreat new users.


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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Back off

2010-06-20 Thread cornflakeguy

I'm still waiting for the #1 offender to post in this thread.

:)


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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Back off

2010-06-20 Thread m1abrams

erland;556526 Wrote: 
> 
> Anyone that doesn't want my help can just ask me to put them on my
> ignore list, I'll be happy to add more people to it. If you don't want
> to ask me you can always just put me on your ignore list in your forum
> profile settings.

I always forget about this great feature!  Thank you, now I can add a
certain thread starter to me list ;).  Really hope he does not have
need for real assistance some day.


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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Back off

2010-06-20 Thread BLatSD

As a person not new to support forums but new to this forum I know I'm
going to regret this.  Anyhow, some unsolicted observations:

1. Both sides of the issue are at opposite ends of the same stick.  If
both sides would let it drop, the stick will probably go away on it's
own.

2. Having participated in support forums for some pretty lousy
products, there's a misnomer that a person who's unhappy with a product
can "get revenge" and cost product sales by making their feelings known
to potential new customers in their support forums.  The effect is
minimal, probably a drop in the bucket.  99.9% of buyers will never
check support forums before they buy.  The only cost really is your own
emotional state & blood pressure.  I read all the negativity about the
firmware in these forums for weeks and bought the radio anyhow (& glad
I did).

3. I'm not suggesting that anyone curb their freedom of expression, but
let's be sensible.  The entire discussion, regardless of what side
you're on, is off topic.  Take it to the "General Discussions" forum or
private mail so that those of us who are here for useful on-topic
support tips don't have to wade through the muck to get to them.

4. This is the reason that many unmoderated forums become moderated and
almost useless.  Let's all temper our views and do our part to keep this
from happening.


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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Back off

2010-06-20 Thread 0xdeadbeef

The problem is not the constructiveness (or lack thereof) of posts which
deal with problems of the Radio, but the fact that the same few
"seniors" hijack every such thread and destroy it by uttering the same
non-helpful stuff. And every time they are told how pointless it is to
put the blame on the customers or tell someone who wants to use MYSB to
use a server instead, they claim that this was not a valid wish and you
should go somewhere else if you don't think that their futile "help"
was no helpful at all. 
Now how constructive is this?


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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Back off

2010-06-20 Thread Mark Miksis

Nazgul;556432 Wrote: 
> Look, if you people want to setup a private forum to discuss this stuff
> then by all means do so and set all the rules you want.  This, however,
> is the public forum for a consumer product and all discussion about the
> product, positive and negative, is valid whether you like it or not. 
> The silencers in the crowd are the annoyances, not the complainers.

Rules and decorum are not the same thing.  AFAIK, rants and other
negative posts have never been removed or edited unless they contained
profanity or personal attacks.  As someone who has been here a long
time because I like the products and enjoy helping others, here's how I
see it:

Over time, the volume of rants has increased here.  And many of those
complaints are valid, but not expressed in a constructive manner. 
Personally, I tend to skip over those messages (and future messages by
the same author) quite quickly.  I suspect others do the same.

So, if an angry rant makes you feel better, go for it.  Just do it with
the knowledge that a calmly worded description of your problem is more
likely to elicit helpful responses.


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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Back off

2010-06-20 Thread erland

Nazgul;556434 Wrote: 
> 
> The bad apples are the ones we all know about, and therefore, I didn't
> think I needed to name names.
> 
I'm guessing I'm considered to be one of them...
I've already expressed my thoughts earlier and and they have been
repeated by bluegaspode earlier in this thread. 

I should probably stop trying to help people by telling them through
which channels they have a better chance to get help. I hadn't realized
that they wanted to continue be unhappy and preferred to scream/rant
where no one hears them instead of doing it where at least some
Logitech representatives hear them.

Anyone that doesn't want my help can just ask me to put them on my
ignore list, I'll be happy to add more people to it. If you don't want
to ask me you can always just put me on your ignore list in your forum
profile settings.


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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Back off

2010-06-20 Thread ModelCitizen

The sensible thing for a user who wants to vent at the products is to do
it in the official Logitech forums, where there is a chance Logitech
will see it. I propose that any threads that start with a rant (or
perhaps any posts that rant) receive *one* single post in reply
containing a nice friendly request to make the same post in the
Logitech forum. Something along the lines of:

Logitech do not read these forums. Please leave this post in their
official forums where we hope they will take some notice of it:


Ooh... 3-1

MC


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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Back off

2010-06-20 Thread 0xdeadbeef

Might be a surprise, but this forum's intention is not primarily to make
-you- happy. It is a place for the community. And if the community gets
upset since Logitech completely messed the software and is unwilling
and/or unable to fix it in 8 months, then it is no surprise that this
becomes a less happy place - as a reflection of the bitter reality. 

If you look for a happy place, there might be better alternatives. It
is however kinda upsetting to demand that the unhappy customers should
keep quiet and stay away just to keep the small fraction of happy
owners happy.

It is even more upsetting that some of the people who demand that we
should keep quiet in the Radio forum don't even own a Radio.


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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Back off

2010-06-20 Thread Nojelc

Let me see, 

Do I want to visit a forum that is primarily full of people who are

a)  struggling to get their SBs working as they wish them too and are
mostly bitching, moaning & complaining. or
b) people with a great deal of experience and technical knowledge who
are very happy with their SBs and are willing to spend a bit of their
time helping me to get the best out of mine?

H, hard choice!


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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Back off

2010-06-20 Thread Nazgul

bluegaspode;556442 Wrote: 
> 
> Oh by the way - remember your first post ;) :
Exactly why I haven't named names and am reluctant to be more specific
than "senior users".  And please, putting quotes around words does not
always entail direct reference, it can also express generalities, like
"reasonably intelligent". ;)


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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Back off

2010-06-20 Thread bluegaspode

Nazgul;556432 Wrote: 
> This, however, is the public forum for a consumer product and all
> discussion about the product, positive and negative, is valid whether
> you like it or not.  The silencers in the crowd are the annoyances, not
> the complainers.
I think you have a very valid point here.

Though I differentiate between:
1) discussion - positive and negative.
2) rants.

Just an example for 1):
I'm very willing to discuss bad design decisions of logitech - if it
leads to:
- finding / documenting workarounds for the design flaws, or
- getting the conclusion that what the user wants doesn't work
- and he either needs to wait for it to work for an indefinite time
- accept it
- return the device.

If you look at the current alarm discussion we are far away from such a
type of discussion.
We only again and again in a loop of 'Why the hell could they do such a
design these bastards'. This is what I personally want to silence (and
now do for myself for certain users with the help of the forums ignore
function).

> 
> The bad apples are the ones we all know about, and therefore, I didn't
> think I needed to name names. 
Tell me at least if you count me in. I wouldn't know who I'd call a bad
apple overall. 
Oh by the way - remember your first post ;) :
> 
> At this point you are posting about the poster and YOU are in violation
> of the forum "rules".


-- 
bluegaspode

1x SB-Controller+Receiver (Duet), 1xSB-Boom. 1xSB-Radio
Server (7.5.1) running on SheevaPlug (Ubuntu) with attached Western
Digital MyBook Essential.

Want to see a Weather Forecast on your Radio/Touch/Controller ? => why
not try my 'Weather Forecast Applet'
(http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=73827)
Want to use the Headphones with your Controller ? => why not try my
'Headphone Switcher Applet'
(http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=67139)

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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Back off

2010-06-20 Thread Phil Leigh

You are all missing the point. There's every point in using this forum
to get help, advice etc from the community and to raise/discuss issues.
There's no point in coming here for any kind of official
advice/support/warranty issues/venting your spleen about how
disappointed you are with something, because no-one who can offer you
any comfort is on here. You need to use the offical channels for that.
This is NOT an offical support channel. I wish it still was - it used
to be - but it hasn't been for a while now.

The "senior members" (there, I have finally used that phrase) who can
offer help etc, if they can, will eventually stop doing so unless
things calm down. This is not a veiled threat, it's just human nature.
I don't have to do this. I can't speak for anyone else, but I do have
other things I could spend my free time on... I wanted to give
something back to the "community" which helped me back in 2005. I
couldn't do any useful coding (wrong skill set)... 

Actually, I noticed that a few months ago that several new members
started to help others a lot and that really was great!. It's not about
"senior" or not, it's about those who can help and want to help and
those who need help.

The community provides a place where these folks can come together.
Let's keep it that way.


-- 
Phil Leigh

You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it
ain't what you'd call minimal...
Touch(wired/XP) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF
Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x
LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue
Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker & Chord Interconnect cables
Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio

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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Back off

2010-06-20 Thread Nazgul

0xdeadbeef;556429 Wrote: 
> Well, there are senior members and senior members. Indeed it's only a
> small club of senior members who try to scare away people with a a
> non-euphemistic opinion on SB products. Then again, if this soothes
> you, even a senior member is not welcome to utter the truth about the
> Radio here.
> Each and every thread that tries to discuss the blatant bugs of the
> Radio is destroyed by the very same people who try to put the blame for
> each and every design flaw on the user.

Exactly correct.  I'm not making a blanket statement about Senior
Users, I am one even though this account is new (which should make no
difference whatsoever on a public support forum).  The bad apples are
the ones we all know about, and therefore, I didn't think I needed to
name names.


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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Back off

2010-06-20 Thread Nazgul

Look, if you people want to setup a private forum to discuss this stuff
then by all means do so and set all the rules you want.  This, however,
is the public forum for a consumer product and all discussion about the
product, positive and negative, is valid whether you like it or not. 
The silencers in the crowd are the annoyances, not the complainers.


-- 
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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Back off

2010-06-20 Thread 0xdeadbeef

Well, there are senior members and senior members. Indeed it's only a
small club of senior members who try to scare away people with a a
non-euphemistic opinion on SB products. Then again, if this soothes
you, even a senior member is not welcome to utter the truth about the
Radio here.
Each and every thread that tries to discuss the blatant bugs of the
Radio is destroyed by the very same people who try to put the blame for
each and every design flaw on the user.


-- 
0xdeadbeef

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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Back off

2010-06-20 Thread Nazgul

pfarrell;556397 Wrote: 
> And how, pray tell, can one know that a posting is useless without 
> reading it?
Brilliant!  You got me.  I am completely invalidated.

pfarrell;556397 Wrote: 
> 
> Clearly you can't understand what you are reading. We are not trying to
> 
> censor or silence anyone. What we are doing is pointing out that the 
> posting of whining is pointless, since no one will do anything about
> it.  
Useless to you maybe, but we're not here just for you are we?  Are we? 
I've seen many helpful posts that start out as whining.

pfarrell;556397 Wrote: 
> 
> One definition of insanity is "repeating the same thing and expecting 
> different results"
Like telling people who are justified in their anger and frustration
that they should keep quite over and over again? Again, Brilliant!

pfarrell;556397 Wrote: 
> 
> Posting complaints here is pointless, no one with power to do anything
> 
> reads them. There will be *no* action.  
I don't think so, forums are for mutual support as well, you really
need to accept that.


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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Back off

2010-06-20 Thread Nazgul

I'm not saying the senior people should vanish, I'm saying that the
folks who tell other people that their comments have no place here need
to stop.  This is a FORUM.  It is for discussion by definition, positive
and negative.  Trying to shut people up on a forum is wrong.  

And let me be specific lest I be accused of hypocrisy: it is wrong
unless it is in support of the basic function of this FORUM--to
communicate.  Promoting forum communication is in itself of worth and
not the doctor proving himself in need of medication.


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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Back off

2010-06-20 Thread Phil Leigh

Nazgul;556368 Wrote: 
> I think your context is a little skewed with this jab.  Think about what
> I wrote and what you're insinuating.  Valid?

I am insinuating nothing. I am asking you to look in that mirror too.
People who live in glass houses...


-- 
Phil Leigh

You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it
ain't what you'd call minimal...
Touch(wired/XP) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF
Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x
LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue
Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker & Chord Interconnect cables
Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio

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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Back off

2010-06-20 Thread Skinny

The fact is that SBR (and related talk) schould be taken elsewhere. The
proper place would be the Duet forum.. 

-Skinny


-- 
Skinny

This sentence says less than a list of audio equipment.

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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Back off

2010-06-20 Thread Pat Farrell
On 06/20/2010 07:19 AM, Nazgul wrote:
>
> I've been reading these forums for a bit now and I see a pattern of BS
> coming from some "senior members" that try to control how people
> discuss the SBW.  Look, if you folks don't like reading negative
> comments about the radio then feel free to not read them or possibly
> comment about how you disagree.

And how, pray tell, can one know that a posting is useless without 
reading it?


> However, trying to silence people or
> negate their comments by saying, "this isn't the complaint department
> take it elsewhere" (paraphrasing) is BS.

Clearly you can't understand what you are reading. We are not trying to 
censor or silence anyone. What we are doing is pointing out that the 
posting of whining is pointless, since no one will do anything about it.

One definition of insanity is "repeating the same thing and expecting 
different results"

Posting complaints here is pointless, no one with power to do anything 
reads them. There will be *no* action.




-- 
Pat Farrell
http://www.pfarrell.com/

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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Back off

2010-06-20 Thread Nazgul

bluegaspode;556335 Wrote: 
> Hi Nazgul, 
> 
> I for my part only tell members that repeat their rants over and over
> again that I don't want to listen to it anymore, because this doesn't
> help to get their problems solved. Neither on the short nor the long
> run.
> 
> And even telling those users that their complaints were better
> somewhere else in my opinion is a way of helping them (thats the reason
> I'm here - to help them) - because as often pointed out - ranting here
> is the least effective way of getting anything changed.
> As some might not know this, it is our task to point this out to new
> users.
> 
> This has nothing to do with 'posting about the poster'.
> 
> Also in a community to be staying alive its important to keep a good
> tone and a constructive environment. Otherwise the community would be
> dying (or we had a forum which only consists of grumbling members).
> This doesn't help anyone. Not you, not me and not logitech (though we
> don't need to take care for logitech ;) )
> 
> 'Back Off' definitely isn't the right tone, so I'm afraid I need to
> tell you my opinion, that I'd like you to get over to other topics,
> which are more constructive.. 
> Describe your problems with your SB-devices, try to let yourself being
> helped by the community. This is the reason that this forums exists.
> 
> The target audience for rants should be logitech. They listen at other
> channels.


You are correct on nearly every point.  Helpful suggestions about where
to post are certainly useful and valid.  But they also aren't what my
rant was about.  I've been reading many posts where people simply say,
(again paraphrasing) "Stop saying that, that isn't what this forum is
for." and that is a problem in a public product user forum.  If
customers come here through thevery visible link on mysqueezebox.com
and see that people with valid complaints are being told to "put a sock
in it," then you'll have some very frustrated people indeed.  

This forum is for users who use a product, not for users who use a
product and happen to spend entirely too much time on the company
forum.


-- 
Nazgul

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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Back off

2010-06-20 Thread Nazgul

Phil Leigh;556341 Wrote: 
> Physician, heal thyself.

I think your context is a little skewed with this jab.  Think about
what I wrote and what you're insinuating.  Valid?


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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Back off

2010-06-20 Thread Phil Leigh

Nazgul;556323 Wrote: 
>   If you don't like it then feel free to say so, but telling people they
> shouldn't write it is WRONG.  This is a public user forum, if people are
> posting about the SBR then they are in the right place no matter what
> they say as long as it meets the forum rules.  Everyone look in the
> mirror and repeat this, "This is not my forum, other people use it
> too."

I don't like it.

Physician, heal thyself.


-- 
Phil Leigh

You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it
ain't what you'd call minimal...
Touch(wired/XP) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF
Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x
LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue
Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker & Chord Interconnect cables
Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio

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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Back off

2010-06-20 Thread bluegaspode

Hi Nazgul, 

I for my part only tell members that repeat their rants over and over
again that I don't want to listen to it anymore.

And even telling those users that their complaints were better
somewhere else in my opinion is a way of helping them (thats the reason
I'm here - to help them) - because as often pointed out - ranting here
is the least effective way of getting anything changed.
As some might not know this it is our task to point this out.

This has nothing to do with 'posting about the poster'.

Also in a community to be staying alive its important to keep a good
tone and a constructive environment. Otherwise the community would be
dying (or we had a forum which only consists of grumbling members).
This doesn't help anyone. Not you, not me and not logitech (though we
don't need to take care for logitech ;) )

'Back Off' definitely isn't the right tone, so I'm afraid I need to
tell you my opinion, that I'd like you to get over to other topics,
which are more constructive.. 
Describe your problems with your SB-devices, try to let yourself being
helped by the community. This is the reason that this forums exists.

The target audience for rants should be logitech. They listen at other
channels.


-- 
bluegaspode

1x SB-Controller+Receiver (Duet), 1xSB-Boom. 1xSB-Radio
Server (7.5.1) running on SheevaPlug (Ubuntu) with attached Western
Digital MyBook Essential.

Want to see a Weather Forecast on your Radio/Touch/Controller ? => why
not try my 'Weather Forecast Applet'
(http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=73827)
Want to use the Headphones with your Controller ? => why not try my
'Headphone Switcher Applet'
(http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=67139)

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