Very enlightening, Grant. Thanks for that. A broader Dia-Compe Silver group sounds really intriguing.
On Feb 24, 7:40 pm, grant <grant...@gmail.com> wrote: > Over the years it has been my non-policy to not require exclusivity on > any of the widgets we've designed or bought the tooling for. It may > change. The Nitto Stem was originally ours to a point. It was our > idea, and we co-developed it with Nitto, suggesting many of the final > details. Originally it was going to weigh 250g (or so I'd hoped), and > when it got up to over 300g (still not much), we bailed. By that time, > Nitto liked it so much that it bought the tooling itself in Japan > ($15,000 USD equivalent), and made the post. It subsequently won an > award that repaid the deveopment and tooling cost to Nitto. Since we > didn't buy that tooling, we don't have any exclusive; but it is not > zero percent influenced by us (and no biggie, but it wouldn't have > even been a topic of conversation had we not made it that). > > Other Riv designed Nitto stuff: Nitto always asks if it can sell to > others, and what we want in return, and I always say yes and nothing, > not because I'm nice or dumb or both, but because I want to see Nitto > stuff out there in other places, too (to help Nitto, not to help > others, but that's not a bad thing, either). So things like Moustache, > Noodle, Mark's, various racks...we don't hoard for us. I don't know if > that's all the stuff, but it's some. > > "Designing" something for Nitto isn't like designing a Jaquet for Bill > Blass or something. It's more like a gruffy bikey guy getting an idea, > sending in a really crappy sketch, and having Nitto get the idea, fix > it up, and make it beautiful. I don't mean to understate the > inspiration, but the work is in making it strong and beautiful and > accurate, and Nitto needs no help in that. RIV's strength is not my > design abilities, but my connections. > > Silver Shifters: Same deal. No contract ran out---I said YES, but > recently told D/C that we wanted to develop a line of Silver parts, > and so no more selling direct to other guys. So now if others buy them > they'll get them thru us. I think it would be nice if they'd associate > us with them, but it's OK. > > Ruffy-Tuffy type tires: Others sell these. We bought the mold for the > checkerboard tread (in the case of some) and it cost about $5,500. We > have three molds: Ruffy/Rolly....Fatty Rump...JackBrown. We allow > Panaracer to sell to others, with the agreement that we get a dollar a > tire, paid quarterly. Sometimes they forget and we forget for a couple > of years, and then we get a check for $2,300 or so. > > SOMA San Marcos: Our deal there is we get $6 per frame SOMA imports. I > designed the geometry and OK'd the tubing (they said it had to be > Tange Prestige, and there's nothing wrong with that). We provide the > lugs, crown, and bb shell. They picked the dropouts. The fork has a > bigger radius rake than we put on ours, but the offset is RIV's, and > how it fits and rides and what tires it fits is RIV's. So is the > kickstand plate!!! > There are microthings I'da done differently if it was purely ours, > but in collaborations you get along and keep the big picture in mind, > and I think it's a killer bike. We have the samples here, they ride > fantastically, and I can't imagine how they cannot sell a few thousand > a year. And yet, the first order is small, which makes me think holy > cow, what bike on any dealer's floor can even compare? But outside our > bubble I know things are different. > I've written a note to SOMA's dealers about why it's good and how to > sell it, but my influence is minimal in that world---maybe dealers > who even know about Riv or me don't like me, for some reason, I don't > know. But the first order of AMOS bikes includes the three 700c > sizes---54, 59, 63---and if I told you how few they've ordered, you > wouldn't beli15ofeacheme. We're taking 5 of each, leaving not many for > their 3,000 dealers. > > Simplex retrofriction shifters (named for its unique mechanism, not as > a marketing label) were nice looking and could work really well. The > cable groove diameter is only 14mm, which means they don't wrap much > cable, which means you may have to move them 165 degrees to shift > through the range. It depends on your derailers. I raced with them, > and rememeber one race where maybe my cable was a bit slack or > something, and I was moving them 180-degree PLUS. I remember thinking > "I need a slot in the end so I can push them past the cable." > The small groove diameter was ideal for 5sp or 6sp freewheels, and > meant a big "trim window", for super easy friction shifting. But it > meants slightly slower shifts, no big deal. Their last hurrah was the > BORAF time trial in which LeMond came from 50 seconds behind and beat > Fignon by a few seconds. It was a great moment for downtube friction > shifters and steel frames. The scarcity of Simplex shifters makes > people want them more and more, but all commercial interests and pride > and personal weaknesses aside, I'd still rather shift the Silvers. > They both have the "easy pull, hard push" feature, but they get it in > different ways. That's the main thing. > > On Feb 24, 12:11 pm, William <tapebu...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > I've bought two of the five "best sellers" and none of the five "worst > > sellers". The thing I found interesting was the Silver Shifter story, > > and that Riv shelled out the $9k for tooling. Other retailers sell > > the Silver shifters, and all of them call them "Dia-Compe Silver > > shifters" with no mention of Rivendell. Ben's Cycle sells them, > > doesn't mention Rivendell, and copies verbatim Velo-Orange's > > description of them. I wonder if Riv gets a royalty when VO or Ben's > > sells a set of shifters, or if the $9k just gave them temporary > > exclusivity with Dia Compe which has since expired. I have one set of > > Silvers, and a stockpile of the original Suntours. It's a great > > shifter design, and despite what Chris at VO says, I'd run suntours or > > silvers over the Simplex/Mavic ones any day. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. 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